Verizon Will Shut Down Its 3G Network In 2022 (engadget.com) 64
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Engadget: Verizon will shut down its 3G services on December 31st, 2022, VP of network engineering Mike Haberman announced today. According to Haberman, less than 1 percent of Verizon customers still access the 3G network, with 99 percent on 4G LTE or 5G. Verizon has roughly 94 million customers, so by the company's own math, as many as 940,000 people are still using Verizon's 3G network.
"Customers who still have a 3G device will continue to be strongly encouraged to make a change now," Haberman wrote. "As we move closer to the shut-off date customers still accessing the 3G network may experience a degradation or complete loss of service, and our service centers will only be able to offer extremely limited troubleshooting help on these older devices." Verizon has been teasing a shut-off of its 3G CDMA services for years. [...] The delay to 2022 is final — there will be no more extensions, Haberman said. He noted that this will be "months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely."
"Customers who still have a 3G device will continue to be strongly encouraged to make a change now," Haberman wrote. "As we move closer to the shut-off date customers still accessing the 3G network may experience a degradation or complete loss of service, and our service centers will only be able to offer extremely limited troubleshooting help on these older devices." Verizon has been teasing a shut-off of its 3G CDMA services for years. [...] The delay to 2022 is final — there will be no more extensions, Haberman said. He noted that this will be "months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely."
1 percent of 94 million (Score:2)
Re: 1 percent of 94 million (Score:5, Funny)
Like T-Mobile, which is planning to shut down 3G in January 2022.
Oh....
Ok, like AT&T, which is planning to shut down 3G in February 2022.
Damnit.
Well, they'll start their own 3G network, but with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the 3G network.
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Re: 1 percent of 94 million (Score:2)
These ARE NOT 3g phones, simply older 4G phones that are past the date they want to support them.
Your old 4G phones are, quite simply, old, and to the extent they require "support" Verizon is choosing to wind down supporting them. That isn't an evil strategy, they are simply trying to wind-down "support" for this older phone.
Care to explain what model phone this is snd what type of "support" Verizon provides for them?
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Re: 1 percent of 94 million (Score:2)
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Re: 1 percent of 94 million (Score:5, Informative)
You're wrong [medium.com]. Your phone cannot make voice calls over 4G/LTE. It requires 3G for voice, and so when 3G shuts down, its voice capability goes with it.
The phones are not technically identical, it's not ab arbitrary age restrictions, it's not "planned" obsolescence. It actually is obsolete, just like analog cell phones became obsolete. We've got better technologies that need those frequencies.
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You're wrong. Your phone cannot make voice calls over 4G/LTE. It requires 3G for voice, and so when 3G shuts down, its voice capability goes with it.
The phones are not technically identical, it's not ab arbitrary age restrictions, it's not "planned" obsolescence. It actually is obsolete, just like analog cell phones became obsolete. We've got better technologies that need those frequencies.
This is incorrect the reason it does not work on existing LTE capable devices is political not technical. VoLTE is basically just SIP over IMS.
For many US users it will come down to an arbitrary restriction US phone companies are fully capable of lifting if they felt like doing so. The very same devices will do VoLTE on other networks but not US based carriers.
For others it will be a simple lack of vendor support for VoLTE which could be implemented with firmware changes.
The underlying hardware is more tha
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I'm sorry, but I provided an article and have personal experience with this issue as an owner of an iPhone 5 that is subject to this issue, and an iPhone 6 that is not. I'm right on this [deccanchronicle.com].
Your unsubstantiated declaration that I am wrong means diddly squat. You're wrong on this [deccanchronicle.com]
Capiche?
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I'm sorry, but I provided an article
The articles you cite fails to even address the issue at hand. The article simply states that iPhone 5 does not natively support VoLTE. They don't say an iPhone 5 is incapable of supporting VoLTE if the vendor released a firmware update to allow it. It does not address this issue at all.... well this is not entirely true it does say the following:
"In India, 4G VoLTE exclusive network such as Jio doesnâ(TM)t allow to make calls from the iPhone 5S, unless the user installs the Jio 4G Voice and SMS app
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Ok, that's the second time that people have moved from "Verizon is doing this" to "the vendor [Apple] is doing this."
You're moving the goalposts quite a bit, aren't you? Verizon is shutting down 3G, not LTE.
That's not a Verizon problem.
An
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Ok, that's the second time that people have moved from "Verizon is doing this" to "the vendor [Apple] is doing this."
You're moving the goalposts quite a bit, aren't you? Verizon is shutting down 3G, not LTE.
You made an assertion that there is new technology and phones are obsolete. I countered by saying existing smartphones could support LTE and that new hardware is NOT required.
I was clear in my original comment of two separate possible conditions that apply to 4G phones preventing them from being used with VoLTE:
"For many US users it will come down to an arbitrary restriction US phone companies are fully capable of lifting if they felt like doing so. The very same devices will do VoLTE on other networks but
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That's because your older 4G phone used 4G only for data and still used 3G for voice. If your 4G phone supports Voice-over-LTE then you're fine. If it doesn't, then you're not going to be able to make or receive voice calls after the cutoff on that phone. Period.
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That's because your older 4G phone used 4G only for data and still used 3G for voice. If your 4G phone supports Voice-over-LTE then you're fine. If it doesn't, then you're not going to be able to make or receive voice calls after the cutoff on that phone. Period.
It is not enough to simply support VoLTE, The major US carriers are maintaining whitelists. If your device aint on it no calls for you even if your device is fully capable of VoLTE. AT&T is by far the worst in terms of restricting VoLTE to capable devices followed by Verizon.
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Worse than that, they are actively using it to force people even with older 4g phones to upgrade. We have older 4G work phones. Verizon is dropping them off the network and will not put them back on. [...] These ARE NOT 3g phones, simply older 4G phones that are past the date they want to support them.
Correct me if I am wrong. But those older 4G phones do not have VoLTE at all. Correct? Or if they have it, is an older version, not supported anymore?
Therefore those phones relay on the 2G/3G network to do voice calls, so, as soon as the 3G network is out, the phones lose voice call functionality
They are called SmartPHONES for a reason, if not, they would be called Tablets.
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Re: 1 percent of 94 million (Score:2)
Did you miss this:
Verizon has been teasing a shut-off of its 3G CDMA services for years. [...] The delay to 2022 is final â" there will be no more extensions, Haberman said. He noted that this will be "months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely."
Verizon is simply committing to be the last carrier to completely shut down their 3G network, for all intents and purposes customers 3G devices will have spotty coverage as support dwindles down to the last few remaining Verizon 3G network elements, at best providing spotty coverage.
Lessons Learned (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess there were some mistakes made and lessons learned after the 2G cutoff.
There are more than 3 million vehicles that need to be "connected"
https://www.automotive-fleet.c... [automotive-fleet.com]
Re:Lessons Learned (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, 2G (GSM) is going to survive far longer than 3G. There's a ton of M2M devices out in the field (e.g. elevators, construction equipment, etc). They do not need more than SMS capability to report some very basic telemetry, and a voice call occasionally (think elevator alarm call).
IoT is just new M2M with more bandwidth :)
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The question is will the revenue from such customers justify the costs (both in terms of equipment and spectrum) of keeping at least one 2G network online.
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the government can pay / force them to keep it for the elevator alarm call system.
Re: Lessons Learned (Score:2)
The 2G network costs were recouped long ago, the issue now is power consumption and space requirements in their facilities.
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Yes and no.
Yes, the equipment costs were recouped a long while ago.
But no, aside from power, cooling and space, those equipments need support contracts, spares, SW updates, licenses on the NMS, and a knowledgeable workforce for them to keep on working, so, those are also costs.
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You can get away with very little spectrum for 2G. 2G data services are appallingly bad, and basically no one uses them for anything serious. There is EDGE, but 3G was already standardized by the time EDGE was rolled out, so very little equipment is EDGE-only. Basically everything doing packet-rate data has moved away from 2G years ago.
Therefore the only services that need supporting are voice calls (2G is optimized for those, they don't need much bandwidth), circuit-switched data at something like 19k2 whi
Re: Lessons Learned (Score:2)
Actually, 2G (GSM) is going to survive far longer than 3G
That may be why TMobile (I think) recommended users of older phones to switch to 2G until they replaced them. It will be interesting to see just how long some of us holdouts can hang onto our old phones. I too only need SMS and voice.
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Actually, 2G (GSM) is going to survive far longer than 3G
That may be why TMobile (I think) recommended users of older phones to switch to 2G until they replaced them. It will be interesting to see just how long some of us holdouts can hang onto our old phones. I too only need SMS and voice.
You can go to a "Smarter thand dumb - dumber than smart" phone , most of them use KaiOS (the successor of FireFox Mobile OS). Those have 4G, VoLTE, and can be had for less than $100
Also, there are Dumb (as in, really dumb) phones with 4G and VoLTE for less than $50
Check those out.
I'll let you a few links, but on the "pricier" side of the spectrum:
KaiOS Phone:
https://www.nokia.com/phones/e... [nokia.com]
Feature(dumb) Phone:
https://www.nokia.com/phones/e... [nokia.com]
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I wonder this change will impact systems such as GM's Onstar, which has both a telematics component and voice communications over cellular. Back in the day GM pulled a mandatory free fix on older Onstar vehicles to replace the original analog module with digital, 1x+3g would've been the pinnacle of available tech then - I would imagine those boxes will also go dark at the end of 2022.
But my Kindle!!! (Score:3)
Also, there's an xkcd for that [xkcd.com].
But my Nook!!! (Score:2)
I believe the original Nook falls under the same thing.
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I'm still a user of the Kindle 2 (2009), with 3G access for life!!! NOOOO!
Well, now you know that the lifespan of a Kindle 2 is about 13 years.
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I'm still a user of the Kindle 2 (2009), with 3G access for life!!! NOOOO!
If the "for life part" was tied to Verizon, you are SOL.
But, if amazon do want to honour the 3G for life promise, there are a few REGIONAL (not national) carriers that will keep 3G going longer than verizon. Just to name a few, there is C-Spire and US-Cellular. If you have coverage by those, you can ask amazon to switch to them.
Failing that, the modem in you kindle handles 2G just fine. Identify a carrier with a long term commitment to 2G and ask amazon to switch you to that. You will go from 3G to EDGE Spe
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with 3G access for life!!!/quote
For the life of 3G.
Phew (Score:2)
At least my old Galaxy Note 3 will work for a while yet.
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When I drive to a certain rural area, my modern iPhone falls back from LTE to 3G. Hopefully they plan on building out that new-fangled 4G network before they rip out the old 3G.
I suspect a lot more than 1% of their customers occasionally have their phone drop to 3G. I've seen it myself when out of the city.
But anyway, they usually rip out the old tech and replace it with the new tech at the same time, so your wish will probably be granted.
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Yeah, I seem to be on 3G about 5-10% of the time, and having slow service is a heck of a lot better than no service. A number of areas I am in seem to still be lagging on 5G and I only get one or two bars on LTE. Something is really going to need to happen before the cutoff to maintain levels of service.
Re: Country (Score:2)
Not very rural, IMO. My phone drops to 2G from time to time.
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Sure it is (Score:4, Interesting)
The delay to 2022 is final - there will be no more extensions, Haberman said.
I'm sure they prefaced the previous delay announcements with the caveat they weren't actually serious, so this one must be the real deal!
Lots of planned obsolescence (Score:4, Insightful)
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As well as 2g/3g it is things like lack of tls 1.2 support and expiring certificates. Coupled with lack of updates and locking boot loaders lots of stuff is getting junked. With a silicon shortage currently in place we should be extending our devices lifes but no we are artificially cutting support instead.
Honestly any concern over this seems like bullshit to me. I've still got my old Nexus 5, which will be 8 years old this year, and it has LTE, and all the latest certs since I'm running an Android 10 rom. It even does VoLTE. It doesn't have al the LTE bands of a modern phone though, but it works still.
I'd imagine a bigger problem will be actually having a functional battery (which I've replaced) on a phone any older than mine.
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A slight shortage of chips for new things doesn't mean tens of millions should be spent to support long obsolete crap. you can get a 4G phone for less than $30.
Your wooden crank phone isn't supported any more either, nor your 1984 Radio Shack brick phone.
I'll no longer have a use for Verizon (Score:2)
The 3g network extends much farther, without it you can't make calls in the middle of nowhere. When they do end the cdma network I'll find a new cell provider
Re: I'll no longer have a use for Verizon (Score:3)
Who?
Verizon has been teasing a shut-off of its 3G CDMA services for years. [...] The delay to 2022 is final â" there will be no more extensions, Haberman said. He noted that this will be "months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely."
Once Verizon drops 3G, there will be no more major carriers supporting it, which means none of their towers will support it, which will leave you with, at best, a patchwork of random third-party towers with spotty coverage.
Re: I'll no longer have a use for Verizon (Score:4, Insightful)
His point is that Verizon will no longer have a coverage advantage, which everybody outside a Megalopolis knows about.
Might as well switch to T-Mobile and save 50% once 3G goes away.
If they replace 3G with all the 4G gear they are replacing with 5G gear, then fine, but I"d give that a 5% chance of happening.
Short version: coverage in 2022 will be much worse than coverage in 2007. Nobody would have predicted that and 5G doesn't help.
They don't have any financial or regulatory reason to provide service outside Suburbia and the Interstates.
Re: I'll no longer have a use for Verizon (Score:2)
His point is that Verizon will no longer have a coverage advantage, which everybody outside a Megalopolis knows about.
As a reminder AT&T and T-Mobile are fully shutting down their 3G networks in 1Q2022, so for 3G coverage Verizon will absolutely have a 'coverage advantage' when AT&T and T-Mobile shut off their 3G towers... until Verizon throws the switch on the last 3G tower.
Shutting down 3G doesn't impact 4G and 5G coverage.
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That seems more like a "After Verizon no longer has the most coverage where I am, I have no reason to stay with them." sentiment. There are much cheaper, much less nasty companies to get cellular service from than Verizon. And if they all have the same coverage, why pick the nastiest, most expensive option?
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Then it goes down to price, carriers don't care about coverage anymore, so why would I pay through the nose for verizon if I'm not getting the coverage.
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The 3g network extends much farther, without it you can't make calls in the middle of nowhere. When they do end the cdma network I'll find a new cell provider
What do you think Verizon will do with all those low/mid band 3G frequencies that they paid billions for after they shut down 3G?
Leave them unused?
Or repuporse them for 4G and 5G?
the shutdown of 3G will improve coverage for 4G and 5G.
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Re: I'll no longer have a use for Verizon (Score:2)
Trying to imagine affordable satellite coverage inside homes and under steel car roofs as reliable as terrestrial cell service, seems unlikely.
Will actually miss 3g (Score:2)
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5G is meant to solve this problem. In highly crowded areas, it should provide up-to 20x more actual bandwidth for the same amount of logical bandwidth. I can understand that if you this flaw in the system that allows you to get around performance issues in the primary bands by using a deprecated band that no one else is using, it can seem nice for just you at this very moment. But how does that help the general people? If your argument about not getting rid of 3G is so you have your own personal band, how about we just have carriers load balance between 3G and 4G, then both will be gridlocked and useless. Better yet. How about we get rid of 3G and use that to expand the 100x better 5G?
So your argument is that we should collapse all current systems into 5G for the betterment of mankind, and not agreeing with this is being anti-humanity and anyone not using a 5G phone is a greedy capitalist?
See, I can build strawmen too. I never made a "argument about not getting rid of 3G " I just stated, literally, how I currently use it. If you tried to actually read instead of being a argumentative asshole you would have seen that.
Main issue is't phones (Score:2)
today = April 1st (Score:2)
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They've been announcing it since 2016, look it up.
Re: I'm more concerned about loss of some 2G (Score:2)
How long has it been since 3G only devices were sold as new? My guess is at least 5 years ago and customers still have one more year, some almost 2 years...
At some point consumers need to move on - current 4G or better phones can be purchased for less than a carton of cigarettes, and truly poor/low-income families qualify for free phones (smartphones at that) in the US in the "Lifeline" program - https://www.truconnect.com/lif... [truconnect.com]
I saw 0G on up... (Score:2)
Stingray Obsolete? (Score:2)