A Software Problem is Bricking Some Early Mustang Mach-Es (theverge.com) 138
Charging is a common concern with electric vehicles. But some owners of the brand-new Mustang Mach-E have run into a peculiar problem: their electric SUVs won't start even when the main battery pack is full. From a report: That's because, The Verge has learned, there's a problem with some early Mustang Mach-E SUVs that involves how the much smaller 12-volt battery gets charged. It's the latest in a growing line of small issues that have come to light during the rollout of Ford's first long-range electric car. As is the case in other electric cars, the Mustang Mach-E keeps its 12-volt lead-acid battery topped up by essentially sipping power from the much larger lithium-ion battery pack. Based on owners' accounts across multiple forum threads, including one who spoke to The Verge, the problem is this stops happening whenever the Mustang Mach-E is plugged in to charge up the larger battery pack. That is especially an issue for owners in areas with cold weather, as Ford encourages them to leave their Mustang Mach-Es plugged in so the SUVs can use power from the grid to warm up before driving. The 12-volt battery powers many of the Mustang Mach-E's systems (since the larger battery pack is high-voltage), and so when it dies, the electric SUV cannot be started. When this happens, owners have reported the FordPass app says the vehicle is in "deep sleep" mode. Some forum members have started referring to it as the "electric brick" problem.
Not the Only One (Score:5, Informative)
The 12V battery, among other things, is required to activate the main power relay. So if it's dead the HV battery may be full but can't be used. It's an issue with every EV and hybrid. Ford's not unique, though the details may vary.
If it happens, you can jump start the car is the conventional way. AAA can handle it, or any other road service you might have. Then, you have to drive around (or leave the car on) for a while to put some charge back on the 12V battery. Just like with your old beast. In the future, remember to put a trickle charger on the 12V battery if you're not going to drive the car for a few days. Have to do that on our Prius with driving still restricted. Probably should do it on the Bolt, too.
Re: Not the Only One (Score:5, Informative)
If your car ends up needing a jump because you didn't drive it for a few days and left it plugged into a charger as recommended, that is a shitty charging system.
I hope they get it sorted out with a software update - competition for Tesla will just make new models better, and better stuff from Tesla will make Ford, Chevy, VW EVs better, as it already has.
Re: Not the Only One (Score:4, Informative)
This is a very common problem with new EVs. Tesla had it, Nissan had it, Kia had it... I'm sure it will be quickly fixed.
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Totally obvious usability problem was not noticed by multiple companies, despite it already being a problem with ICE cars for years.
Yeah, I don't expect it to be fixed quickly.
Seriously, I've owned two Subarus that will kill their batteries in short order if you park them for a couple weeks. I never had this problem with cars from the 2000's and earlier. Engineers know that if the electronics in a car draws so much current for so much time, it would kill the battery after a few days, but along the way, so
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> Yeah, I don't expect it to be fixed quickly.
It's going to be a software update. They'll probably have something in a week or two.
I'm confident in this, because every other EV that's had this problem just needed a software update, and it was ready within a few weeks of the problem being acknowledged.
=Smidge=
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Aww, my little shitposting troll is back, and he still tries to use (at best) specious reasoning to discount my opinion instead of actually debate it.
Good to know that vacuous space between your ears is still available to me free of rent.
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Can someone please explain why the 12V battery is needed? Activate the main power relay from the main battery. There, problem solved.
This exact problem has also shown up in the Porsche Taycan. WTF do these cars need a 12V battery for, exactly?
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Using a battery gives them a separate power system that they can use to control power coming from the HV pack (ie: under the hood is a wire marked "CUT HERE" that (when cut) shuts off the relay that controls power coming out of the HV pack).
That way the high voltage power cannot leave the HV pack in an accident and shock the firefighter trying to cut someone out of the car.
This sort of system is also common in industrial PLC controls (with separately derived 24V or 120V power running PLCs and controls that
Re:Not the Only One (Score:5, Interesting)
Automakers don't make many (or any) of the electronics components in your car. These are provided by a vast chain of suppliers (Bosch, Valeo, Delphi, etc). Automakers just buy the parts and assemble them together into the vehicle.
These parts are all specified and tested for 12V systems. They are qualified across environmental operating ranges to operate from 12V systems. The simplest way for automakers to avoid having to re-qualify them for EVs is to just stick in a 12V system that looks identical to the equivalent IC system.
It is a total hack and more than likely these things can run off a regulated 12V supply from the main pack without any issues. But when you have so many of these components across so many vehicles, even if a very small portion fail more often because of such a change, that can add up to a lot of defects. So for now they just do this hack to avoid the cost of having to re-qualify everything.
I suspect there is also a realisation that once EVs become widespread all these modules will move to the 42V automotive standard (something that has been talked about for a very long time now) so they probably don't see the point in re-qualifying everything right now when it is really just an interim measure.
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Unless you want it to be required to have a licensed electrician to do work on the car you need a sub 50v circuit.
Even if you don't mind breaking 50v, you probably don't want to run 300-800v through the whole car, so you'll need to step down the voltage anyway, and doing it to 12v means that there's a whole slew of accessories that can be used.
Engineers have found using a 12v battery works better than trying to use the high voltage battery directly (which Tesla did with the roadster).
I do believe that most
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Every EV has a DC-DC converter that produces 12V from the HV battery pack. Every single one.
Much like the alternator in an ICE car, the DC-DC converter produces all the 12V power the car needs to operate while it's on. And, much like how an alternator can't do anything with the engine off, the DC-DC converter has no power when the HV battery is disconnected internally while not in use.
In both cases, you need an external battery to get things bootstrapped.
=Smidge=
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>Activate the main power relay from the main battery.
How?
The main power relay is physically inside the HV battery casing. If that relay is out, there is no HV power outside of that sealed casing... which is the entire point. So what's supplying the power (and underlying control logic) to pull in that relay?
Answer: the 12V subsystem, which is powered by a separate battery until the HV battery is activated and the DC-DC converter takes over (which also recharges the 12V battery).
=Smidge=
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Uh, maybe bring a terminal outside the main HV battery casing, tapped at a low voltage point in one of the series chains?
Not exactly up there with making rockets that land themselves or training monkeys to play Pong with brain waves.
Re:Not the Only One (Score:5, Insightful)
> Not exactly up there with making rockets that land themselves or training monkeys to play Pong with brain waves.
Well thank fuck you're not in charge, because what you just proposed would almost certainly result in a battery fire.
It's very bad to have an imbalance in a battery pack. If one (or several) cells in series are at a lower voltage than the others, you run the risk of reverse biasing them as you discharge the pack. You know how batteries have warnings about mixing new and old cells on the package? Well for disposable alkaline batteries you run a risk of leaks, for lithium you run the risk of fire.
You do not, under any circumstances, put additional load on a subset of cells in a stack. That is a recipe for disaster.
=Smidge=
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In addition to the balance issues (that part of the pack would draw down more than the others and would fail quicker), that is also a risk of something shorting that lower voltage terminal to a higher voltage inside the pack and now you have an unknown voltage running through the car.
Much easier to use a 12v battery. That also lets you downsize the stepdown converter a little as the 12v battery can buffer for peak loads.
Aaron Z
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If it happens, you can jump start the car is the conventional way. AAA can handle it, or any other road service you might have.
About this, but not specific to electric vehicles...
I don't understand why more people don't know about these things [buyersguide.org]. I was a bit skeptical, but figured I could afford $65 - so I picked up one of the TackLife models on Amazon. It worked so well, I bought a second one to put in the trunk of our other car.
One charge provides multiple jump starts. They're compact, much more convenient than jumper cables, and they work when you're all alone out in the middle of nowhere. Why doesn't everyone know about them?
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I have one of those. It has worked on traditional ICE cars, but, strangely, it did not work on my Leaf when the battery was discharged from sitting unused. Charging using a regular 12V charger got the car moving.
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You could jump start it in the conventional way, except for the problems mentioned in the article. The battery is in a place where you'd normally get to by opening a latch powered by the 12-volt battery. There's a workaround, but it's bizarre.
If they'd just left the 12V battery someplace accessible with a mechanical key or at least provided jump start terminals under the hood like later Priuses, this would have been barely worth mentioning.
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Absolutely. I have the same exact problem with my 2013 Sonata Hybrid... even if my small 270V 1.4kWh battery is full, if my 12V battery is low, like 10V, I cannot start the car...
I got the problem since the pandemic, sometimes I do not start the car for 2 or 3 weeks. I added a small 10W solar panel connected on the 12V battery, it solved the problem, but still, I know a lot of EV/hybrid cannot start if their 12V battery is low, does not make sense.
For first, they should get rid of the 12V battery because it
Nissan Leaf has this exact problem too (Score:5, Informative)
As an owner of a 2011 Leaf, I wouldn't really mind except Nissan never fixed it. They updated the 12V charging algorithm in 2014, and again in 2017, but they never provided a fix to earlier owners. Really poor product support. Now Leaf owners are hacking their cars and programming them to resolve bugs like this. https://github.com/openvehicle... [github.com]
The Leaf also has other 12V charging issues and frequently leaves them stored at 50-80% SOC (Lead acid should always be left at 100% SOC). As a result, they sulfate and go bad early.
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Are you sure about that? I have read that the 12V battery in a Leaf is only charged when the car is "on" (driving).
See this page:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/v... [mynissanleaf.com]
"The key here is to understand that the car's built-in 12v recharger/maintainer is operating only when the drive battery is engaged, i.e. in ready-to-drive mode or with drive-battery charging (actually charging, not just plugged in)."
Or this one, where someone specifically sa
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The DC-DC converter also runs, as you said, when the car is in "ready to drive" (on) mode. Your snippet of the manual is correct:
"The key here is to understand that the car's built-in 12v recharger/maintainer is operating only when the drive battery is engaged, i.e. in ready-to-drive mode
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The algorithm for maintaining the 12V battery in the Leaf is just whacked, and it's not even that hard to fix. It's stunning that Nissan still hasn't done so.
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There is another problem with the 12V battery getting low on the Leaf: the car may go into drive, but the brakes don't work:
"I have the same problem with the car wonâ(TM)t start initially as if the brake pedal was not depressed to turn on to âoerunâ mode without any error message. Then it started but the brake totally failed which scared me so I turned off the car immediately but it wonâ(TM)t start again after multiple trials. Then eventually it displays the warning error message of T/M
Bigger Problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a stupid design right there.
Re: Bigger Problem... (Score:2)
Can it be trickle charged through the cigarette lighter port? Or have they removed those and gone entirely to USB ports?
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Can it be trickle charged through the cigarette lighter port? Or have they removed those and gone entirely to USB ports?
That's not a bad idea. Those cigarette lighter port trickle chargers always give me the creeps though. Always seems like a blown fuse (or fire!) waiting to happen.
Those lead acid cells can move a lot of current.
Re: Bigger Problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
The neat thing about fuses, they're rated for a certain amperage.
Interestingly, so are chargers!
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The neat thing about fuses, they're rated for a certain amperage.
Interestingly, so are chargers!
It would have to be a name brand charger with a good reputation. Most I've seen are sketchy.
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Always seems like a blown fuse (or fire!) waiting to happen.
If it's a fire waiting to happen then you don't have the correct fuse. That's what it's there for.
Mind you moving a lot of current is completely irrelevant, when talking about *trickle* chargers. It doesn't matter if you're trickle charging a AA battery or the Tesla's Hornsdale power reserve, trickle charger is by definition low current.
Bigger problem is most modern cars disable the cigarette lighter when the key is off. (I have a solar tender plugged into my own car at the moment, and had to run a cable to
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In all the vehicles I have seen recently (and as a travelling consultant I rent a lot of different new cars) the auxiliary power outlet, as it is now called, does not come with a cigarette lighter. It is port with a cap (usually black plastic). Could be that rental companies are removing the lighter, but the last three new cars I bought did not have one either.
I imagine very soon lots of not-so-young people will be saying "what is this car cigarette lighter you speak of?".
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https://teslatap.com/articles/... [teslatap.com]
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Jump-start access is probably unnecessary (Score:2)
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....into an 12V cigarette adapter port in the car (assuming they still have those) ...
They do. They are standard but are now called auxiliary power outlets and have nothing to do with cigarettes.
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Still stupid, but they evidently do have a place where you can hook up the jump box or car to let that same source that will jump the battery power the hood latch.
So step one: 'jump' the hood latch so it will open, then you 'jump' the battery.
My only guess as to why they would do this, if they do, or one day want to let the owner unlock the hood without opening the driver door to get at a mechanical release. Since it is a frunk this seems possible as a motivation.
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That's a stupid design right there.
Talk to a mechanic sometime. Stupid design is the norm for just about any car.
My favorite is that most car companies will run all of the electronic sensor cabling through the bumpers, so if you get into a 5 MPH fender bender, you'll be suffering all kinds of electronic issues that are near impossible to track down, let alone fix.
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That's brilliant, not stupid. It would cost you more $$$ to fix it that a simple bumper replacement.
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2016 and later Teslas have a similar issue, however there is however a way to open the frunk purely mechanically from the outside (as not to require you to be in the car, since unlocking the car also requires the 12V battery). Of course the drawback is anyone can open your frunk at any time if they know how (I found out how from Tesla support when my car's 12V battery died after an accident). Perhaps Ford also has a semi-secret way to open the frunk manually?
Pre-2016 Teslas had jumper terminals accessible f
Repeated mistake (Score:3)
Seems to be a problem with multiple EV vendors. Nissan Leaf's have a reputation for keeping the 12V only marginally charged, which makes them wear out faster than keeping them nearly fully charged, and some folks have had intermittent problems with them running down otherwise healthy batteries after only a week or two. General advice is to unplug your Leaf from the wall if you won't be driving it for a week or two, as with the Mach-E it fails to keep the 12V alive properly (sounds like Nissan slows starves it to death with very short infrequent charging cycles that don't keep up with the power draw of the components that get fired up when the plug is inserted).
A Prius still needs a jump if the 12V runs down, even with a decent sized drive battery sitting RIGHT there. The big battery is treated as a fuel tank rather than a usable source of electrical power.
It would seem that teaching the car's computer to keep itself alive by firing up the inverter would be sensible, but nope.
I don't get it (Score:2)
Would a DC2DC converter to get 12V from the main pack weigh more and cost more than a fuddy-duddy old lead-acid battery?
What does Tesla do? I can't believe they do this. The incumbent auto makers have some advantages, but it sounds like they also have some baggage.
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Would a DC2DC converter to get 12V from the main pack weigh more and cost more than a fuddy-duddy old lead-acid battery?
TFA says they have both. I suspect the charge controller is operated from the lead acid battery only, due to safety concerns over using the DC2DC convertor while charging.
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A) They are. But to enable the converter, and connect the HV battery pack which is isolated when not in use, you need the 12V subsystem online. That means you need the battery to be working.
B) They do. The converter charges the 12V battery as well as powers all of the 12V systems (which is basically everything in the car except the main traction motor and AC/heating).
> It's almost like some bureaucratic noob made the decision
It's almost like you didn't bother to do any homework. *shrug* To say nothing of
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"For anyone with a bachelors in EE, or a solid understanding of the electronics involved in power supplies and switching systems, this is a weekend project - with most of the time spent on Mouser sourcing the right parts."
No it is not, and anyone who would say this is unqualified to comment.
"I am surprised that A) They aren't using a buck converter to create a 12V rail off of the main battery. "
You seem to be enamored with the term "buck converter", as though using it makes you seem knowledgable. Not only
Had a similar problem with a Prius (Score:2)
Years ago, the Prius I had wouldn't start or do anything and it turned out the 12V battery wasn't getting charged because of a failure in its charging circuitry from the lithium battery pack - the gas engine's alternator charged the lithium battery pack which then charged the 12V battery. There was a software bug which prevented a notification saying that the 12V battery was not being charged and to get the car to a service centre.
The Toyota dealer knew all about the problem and told me what it was after I
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Yes, a trickle charger would be the fix, if you can get to the battery. At least in the Prius there's a jump start terminal in the fuse box under the hood; the battery itself is well-buried in the trunk. In the Bolt, since there's no frunk, the 12V battery is naked and accessible along with the various fluid reservoirs. Comment above says the Ford battery is buried behind the frunk panels - there should be some kind of jump-start access, though, and it should be documented in the (read it? horrors!) manual.
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In that Prius (it was a 2005, I think), the battery was very easily accessible from the rear cargo area but you had to know where to look AND the jump start terminals in the hood were under an unmarked plastic cap. In that Prius, there was absolutely NO mention of the 12V battery or the jump start terminals in the owner's manual. They were shown to me in the shop by a mechanic/technician so I would know what to do the next time this happened (apparently the charger circuit burned out fairly frequently in
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For the Mach-E owners, wouldn't the solution also be to put their 12V battery onto a trickle charger?
Yup. Building it so plugging it in charges both batteries seems too obvious a solution I guess.
My gas car's battery discharges over time if I don't put a charger on it now and then due to short infrequent trips. I'd be pissed if I plugged it in every day and it still would not start.
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> Yup. Building it so plugging it in charges both batteries seems too obvious a solution I guess.
And obvious solution, but not necessarily a trivial one.
*Every* EV brand has run into this problem. Yes they are all capable of charging both the HV main and 12V aux batteries at the same time, and charge the 12V battery from the HV battery (even unattended), but apparently it's a lot easier said than done.
=Smidge=
Need redundant power supplies for crit. systems (Score:2)
In someways it's more like an automatic transfer switch. Though with the second source needing DC-DC converters.
Even if they get the charging right, I'd want both for reliability.
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Looks like they need to re-design their critical systems, to have redundant power supplies. One from the 12v battery, which is used unless their is no power. Second is from the higher voltage drive system batteries, using a DC-DC converter.
My guess is the 12 volt battery is the redundant power supply. It provides power to the high voltage charge controller. They don't want to use the DC-DC convertor during the charging process due to some other known failure mode (power surge?) that likely results in a battery fire.
When the vehicle isn't charging, it runs on both the DC-DC convertor and the lead acid battery.
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All EVs and most non-mild hybrids use a DC-DC converter from the main battery to produce the "12V" (can be as low as 10-11V and as high as 14-15V, as with standard ICE vehicle electrical systems) for charging the 12V battery and powering the normal items like lights and blowers and computers. Sometimes, that circuit fails and you don't get a warning about it. Sometimes (see Leaf discussion above) it has strange operating modes that you wouldn't expect. EVs that have active HV battery management and temperat
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That's not without power - that's removing a cover and then having to apply power! What was so wrong with the mechanical bonnet latch that has been around for a century?
I really feel that modern industry has taken the very real benefits of vehicle electrification and turned it into chaos through violation of simplicity.
Just because you use an el
they should not even have that battery (Score:2)
But what about the 12V electronics, you ask? Run them off a buck converter, with some decent sized caps.
But isn't it too much power for that? Nope. RVs can do it. The converter will supply somewhere between 30 and 65-ish amps even with no battery.
Needing two battery systems is total amateur hour.
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How large should those caps be, how big and heavy are they, and how ultimately is that different from using a battery instead?
The value of using the battery instead of caps is far greater energy density and voltage stability, both characteristics that existing auto electrical infrastructure relies on.
Your analysis is "total amateur hour".
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"How large should those caps be, how big and heavy are they, and how ultimately is that different from using a battery instead?"
The converter is already in the vehicle, but even if it wasn't it would still be both smaller and lighter than a typical 12V car battery, e.g. group 24.
Unlike you, I am actually familiar with these systems.
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There are times when you need power but the main battery pack is dead/ disconnected/ accidented/ whatever
Yeah, and they failed at that by making the low voltage battery terminals inaccessible behind a power-operated panel.
I presume there's some way to get it open manually, but... how sad.
It would be wise to bring the 12V out to some kind of connector (Andersen?) before the system fails.
Early Release (Score:2)
If this had been a Tesla problem we would be reading here all about how it meant that the company was Done and Elon was a Fraud From the Start.
Is there anyone here who doesn't know that Release 1.0 of any product has a high risk of this?
Come on, are you nerds or neckbeards?! (Score:2)
Don't you all have some DC-DC converter ICs in a box somewhere? Can't you just solder up an adapter to charge your 12V through the accessory port using your cell phones?
Do you need me to draw up a schematic so you can do it with a 555 timer?
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Please do, we can all use the comic relief. Make sure you put your real name on it too, we want the results to stick.
Ford ~= Found On Road Dead (Score:3)
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Rambler?
I like the cut of your Jib.
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I'm pretty sure every car manufacturer has acronyms (or rhymes) like that, some even in local languages.
FIAT: Fix It All the Time
BMW: Bayerischer MistWagen - Bavarian Shit-Vehicle
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FIAT - Fix It Again, Tony (or if you are a fan of theirs, it's Fling It Around Turns)
Ford - too many to list. Fix Or Repair Daily is another
Chevrolet - Cheap Heap Every Valve Rattles (and) Oil Leaks Every Time.
Toyota - Too Often Yanks Overvalue This Auto.
FYI that's not really bricking (Score:3)
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Yes, but useful to trigger outrage. A bricked device is permanently non-functional. Close enough, right?
Not surprised (Score:2)
Not surprised at all. They run IT like a hipster "RA RA" chanting sporting team. Anyone with any critique is shown the door. The team is already the best there is, only enemies notice problems.
Back when I worked there I literally got in trouble for complaining the 2010 Explorer was leaving body on frame and going to unibody. Low and behold, this was a major mistake and the next iteration went *back* to body on frame exactly as I had critiqued.
But I was wrong until the mistake was corrected upon which even t
Can you say battery tender? (Score:2)
I am not saying this isn't stupid engineering, but it is very common in cold areas like Northern Michigan to have a battery tender on cars that are not driven very often. If you don't drive a car often the onboard electronics will slowly kill the lead acid battery. If you have been to a dealership lately you will see that all the demo cars are plugged into battery tenders.
It seems like lazy engineering to still include a redundant lead-acid battery, but if it is in there it need to be treated like a lead-
Hood locked? (Score:2)
From the article:
Does this mean that it's a catch 22 or chicken-and-the-egg problem? (i.e.) You need the battery working to be able to open the hood to service it, charge it, or replace it? Hence, the
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Went to look it up, evidently if you will be able to jump it, you'll be able to open the hood.
Evidently, there's a removable cover on the bumper where you can hook up the jump source to power the hood latch, then open the hood to get at the battery directly.
I've no idea why they use an electronic hood latch in the first place though.
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"I've no idea why they use an electronic hood latch in the first place though."
Because it's one more thing that can fail that they can charge too much money to fix/replace. I'll bet this design "feature" came directly from the marketing department.
Lead acid??? (Score:2)
Why not use a lithium battery?
Last year I changed the lead acid battery for a lithium one in my motorcycle.
About half the size and a third of the weight.
A lithium battery can keep it's charge for much longer than a lead acid battery.
The EV cars are already so expensive, what's 200$ more for a modern 12v battery?
Safety Feature (Score:2)
I am a Nissan Leaf owner. I have experienced a dead 12v battery keeping my car from turning on too. On my Leaf, the 12v battery powers the high voltage circuit breaker that connects the high voltage battery to the motors.
When the 12v battery dies, the circuit breaker won't close.
I can see how a similar design can cause this same problem for Ford owners.
This is actually an important safety feature. In an accident, the fire department can remove the cables from the 12v battery, and know the car is electri
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Kona Electric had a recall for exactly this problem as well.
The 12V battery persists because it makes a lot more sense to operate the bulk of the vehicle's systems on 12 volts rather than 300+ volts (depending on the manufacturer). Imagine 350VDC rated tail lights and power windows...
The batteries are still lead acid because it's a pretty robust chemistry. They should, however, be using "deep cycle" style batteries instead of engine start batteries since they don't need to provide short bursts of insane cur
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The Taycan problem appears related to charging at too low a wall current. It does not defy "root cause analysis".
"Porsche hasn't solved the problem in over a year."
In fact, they've failed to solve it for over a century!!! How long since they've known about it, though?
The inflammatory rhetoric is tiring. It's a problem that affects almost no one, it has a workaround, and Porsche knows what causes it. Cut the bullshit.
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my dealer doesn't know, because it's not in the update release notes.
The problem was first reported just over a year ago...Porsche is behind the leading edge on in-car software, especially with updates. My Taycan was at the dealer for two days for the last update, needing several tries, they need it for two days for this upcoming update, and OTA map updates for my GT3RS were down for six months, with Porsche Support asking me to wait a little longer a few times while they sorted out their servers.
I... believe that Porsche is one of the finest auto brands for quality and service.
Apparently not.
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Not remotely as ugly as the Model X. Not even a contest.
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Not remotely as ugly as the Model X. Not even a contest.
They're not going to sell either one on their looks, that's for sure. Cars for people who don't like cars?
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Its not an ugly car at all, OP is off his meds.
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I don't think it is particularly ugly - it looks like any generic asian car. Its looks deserve a resounding "meh!".
A shame to burn the iconic Mustang name though.
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I don't much mind the looks of the car, but Ford has taken a wilted leaf from Tesla's book and stuck a big iPad-like screen in the middle of the dash. That takes the Mustang out of the race for me. It's too bad, because it looks reasonable otherwise.
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Amazing reaction.
Different people are... different I guess.
I wouldn't call it amazing. After a perfunctory scan of the internet it seems to be the consensus opinion. That my friend is an ass ugly car.
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For some curious definition of "perfunctory" perhaps. It is not a consensus opinion and your comments are made in bad faith.
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Re:That's one ugly car (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh come on, what's not to like? [twimg.com] ;)
Seriously, though... making a good EV is hard, and while companies like VW and Ford are rushing their EVs out half-finished, I'm still glad they're trying. It's the only way they have a chance of survival. They have a rapidly ticking countdown clock over their heads.
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I was driving down the road the other day, one came up behind me. The first thought through my head was "Canyonero".
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... they were towed there by a Chevy.
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... after the Chevy managed to make it out of the shop for a few days.
Re:90% of all Fords are still on the road. (Score:4, Informative)
After it drove back from the levee with no more whiskey and rye.
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You can read here other stories of 12V being dead causing other EV's issue - reading around it looks like even Tesla's have a 12V that needs to have power so that the computer and other systems can work..
The US auto industry is really hooked on 12V DC power. There's just a lot of momentum around that standard. There has been pressure from automakers to switch to 24 or 48 volts to reduce wire harness costs. However, doing so really shrinks the component supply base. It just isn't gaining traction.
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You can read here other stories of 12V being dead causing other EV's issue - reading around it looks like even Tesla's have a 12V that needs to have power so that the computer and other systems can work..
I guess the difference is that Tesla (and I presume other cars) do keep the 12V charged while the main battery pack is plugged in. They also have a way to access the 12V battery standalone to hook up a charger, but you probably don't hear about that failure mode with Tesla's much because charging the car is always keeping the 12v filled.
Our neighbor's Model 3 had the 12V battery die on them. I talked the Tesla tech, it's a non-consumer fixable problem. You need to contact Tesla to replace 12V battery if that happens.
You actually don't, although I expect a Tesla tech would tell you that you do. It's not that difficult, although there are a couple more steps than for your typical car: https://youtu.be/jQNbW4cTq9s?t... [youtu.be]