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The Military Government Power Security

Iran Nuclear Facility Suffers Blackout, Cyberattack Suspected (apnews.com) 117

Posted by EditorDavid from the cutting-the-power dept.
While difficult negotiations continue over a deal to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions, this morning Iran suddenly experienced a blackout at its underground Natanz atomic facility, the Associated Press reports: While there was no immediate claim of responsibility, suspicion fell immediately on Israel, where its media nearly uniformly reported a devastating cyberattack orchestrated by the country caused the blackout. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu later Sunday night toasted his security chiefs, with the head of the Mossad, Yossi Cohen, at his side on the eve of his country's Independence Day... Netanyahu, who also met Sunday with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, has vowed to do everything in his power to stop the nuclear deal...

Natanz has been targeted by sabotage in the past. The Stuxnet computer virus, discovered in 2010 and widely believed to be a joint U.S.-Israeli creation, once disrupted and destroyed Iranian centrifuges at Natanz amid an earlier period of Western fears about Tehran's program. Natanz suffered a mysterious explosion at its advanced centrifuge assembly plant in July that authorities later described as sabotage. Iran now is rebuilding that facility deep inside a nearby mountain. Iran also blamed Israel for the November killing of a scientist who began the country's military nuclear program decades earlier.

Multiple Israeli media outlets reported Sunday that an Israeli cyberattack caused the blackout in Natanz. Public broadcaster Kan said the Mossad was behind the attack. Channel 12 TV cited "experts" as estimating the attack shut down entire sections of the facility. While the reports offered no sourcing for their information, Israeli media maintains a close relationship with the country's military and intelligence agencies...

On Tuesday, an Iranian cargo ship said to serve as a floating base for Iran's paramilitary Revolutionary Guard forces off the coast of Yemen was struck by an explosion, likely from a limpet mine. Iran has blamed Israel for the blast. That attack escalated a long-running shadow war in Mideast waterways targeting shipping in the region.
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Iran Nuclear Facility Suffers Blackout, Cyberattack Suspected More

Iran Nuclear Facility Suffers Blackout, Cyberattack Suspected

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  • Stuxnet 2.0 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Sunday April 11, 2021 @02:37PM (#61261304) Homepage

    Stuxnet 2.0, here we come!

    • I didn't do it.

      • consider.
        iran has the money and resources to work on branching into theoretical physics.
        fusion research.
        gravity research.
        battery research.
        they could lead.
        if they were smart enough

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Entrope ( 68843 )

          Iran has millennia of smart scientists and researchers in their history. They're plenty smart enough to do those things. The question is whether they are wise enough to focus on areas of research beyond building nuclear weapons.

          • The question is whether they are wise enough to focus on areas of research beyond building nuclear weapons.

            The threat of nuclear arms is the only way a small country can negotiate with a super power. It's the lingua franca of the post cold war era. Russia, China, and the US often impose their will on smaller nations and the UN has no teeth when dealing with permanent members of the UN security council.

            It's not a good system, but it's the system we have. (and we should replace it with something that doesn't waste massive resources and constantly leaves us on the brink of nuclear war)

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by Entrope ( 68843 )

              Yes, for example, Saudia Arabia. And Israel, Japan, Egypt, and so on. And I trust my point is sufficiently clear?

              • Saudi Arabia and Egypt are deeply influenced by Western powers. (e.g. Suez Canal is still connected to French management and French banks)

                Israel is a battle ground for a proxy war between the West and the Middle East. They're generally allowed to have internal autonomy as long as they concede to the West's demands on acting as a cork and spy proxy for the Middle East.

                Japan has an unusual Constitution as put in place when they surrender unconditional to the United States. That you might imply they are a coun

                • Re:Stuxnet 2.0 (Score:5, Insightful)

                  by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Sunday April 11, 2021 @09:46PM (#61262086) Homepage

                  Those are extremely weak rationalizations for making exceptions to your earlier blanket statement. Egypt doesn't count as negotiating with superpowers because the Suez canal is "still connected" in some way to France, which has not been a superpower since Napoleon's time? You think Israel is just a proxy state? Japan doesn't count because, well, you typed some rather incoherent words that don't relate to using nuclear weapons to negotiate with superpowers?

                  There are lots of ways that countries can negotiate with larger ones. That you think nuclear weapons are required just shows that you have bought into propaganda from Iran and North Korea.

                  • That you think nuclear weapons are required just shows that you have bought into propaganda from Iran and North Korea.

                    Must be. It couldn't possibly be the influence of growing up in the US during the cold war. No propaganda ever took place on these amber waves of grain.

                  • There are lots of ways that countries can negotiate with larger ones. That you think nuclear weapons are required just shows that you have bought into propaganda from Iran and North Korea.

                    The fastest and surest way make nuclear weapons a non factor between nations is to have more of them? We certainly cannot afford western nations giving them up...So, a front row ticket to the talks while we discuss killing each other is what those weapons buy you.

              • While there was no immediate claim of responsibility, suspicion fell immediately on Israel,

                Of course it was Israel! You think the Rothschilds built those space lasers just to burn down bits of California?

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by ksw_92 ( 5249207 )

              The threat of nuclear arms is the only way a small country can negotiate with a super power.

              Nope, not even close. Look at the House of Saud and how they've been able to play the world, including Russia and China. The calculus is changing and nukes have little role in negotiations with non-nuclear state (and non-state) entities. Pulling a nuke out of holster these days is likely to drive the other party into the arms of another nuclear power..

              I have a theory that nuclear powers actually have less actual power than if they didn't have nukes. First, the fact that you have nukes puts you under a micro

              • The Saudis are pursuing an avenue that will likely be fruitless with the superpowers in the long term, and requires a great deal of concessions on their side. And most importantly it's not a tactic that Iran could reproduce.

                • Saudi Arabia is run for the benefit of the royal family, not the Saudi people.

                  Their goal is to stay in power.

                  They do that by aligning themselves with the Wahhabis and the United States of America.

                  And most importantly, it's not a tactic that Iran could reproduce.

                  Indeed. America has already picked a side. Russia's interests are not aligned with those of Iran (they compete in the oil markets). China is uninterested in Middle East adventurism.

                  • Saudi Arabia is run for the benefit of the royal family, not the Saudi people.

                    Their goal is to stay in power.

                    No denying that. But it's not material to the argument.

                    China is uninterested in Middle East adventurism.

                    Which is surprising. If China could get the US and Russia fighting over oilfields it may prove a useful distraction. It's not like those two learn from their own history, just look at how many years have they both dabble in proxy wars in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

                    What's sad about the cold war between the US and Russia is they're not even playing the same game. Much of the US's involvement boils down to ways for the military-industrial complex to bilk th

                  • Saudi Arabia has two separate governments that have some fundmental conflicts with each other. Heck, even the name Saudi Arabia hints at that fact.

                    It's kinda like if Trump was in charge of half of the cabinet departments, while Bernie Sanders ran the other half - except with Sanders smoking crack daily.

                    That makes the system there interesting, and hard for most westerners to understand.

            • Others have mentioned many powerful nations that don't have nukes. So what *is* the primary driver of influence?

              Why are Egypt, Japan, Germany, etc influential?
              I think you'll find that economic power is the primary power.

              After all, money is a symbol of the ability to get someone to do something. For $15 I can get someone to bring my a pizza. For $20,000 someone will make me a car.

              Money is the ability to get what you want, to get people to do things. Power is the ability to get what you want, to get people t

        • Most of them come to the US and the West .. a lot of Iranian scientists and engineers have helped developed key technologies in the West.

          • yup.
            they are just smart enough to buy the knowledge they request.
            but not smart enough to go to the next level

        • iran has the money and resources to work on branching into theoretical physics.

          Iran is broke. The Iranian economy is contracting.

        • consider.
          iran has the money and resources to work on branching into theoretical physics.
          fusion research.
          gravity research.
          battery research. ...

          Unfortunately for the regime, the good Iranian scientists and entrepreneurs are now mostly living in Beverly Hills.

    • Well, it's a relevant FP, and I recently read a lot of details in a book, but I'm not seeing the FP as the seed of anything great. I don't even see if it's worth speculating as to whether or not the malware of this attack is more sophisticated. But you were probably in a hurry to FP and couldn't come up with a better joke. (Me neither, but I've already proven that I couldn't write a good joke if it hit me with a bus.)

      My two initial reactions are (1) Is this going to accomplish anything besides making the ba

      • 2) It will force the Iranians to invest more resources in better cyber defenses, which will probably be bad in the long term.

        I came here to write this but I wouldn't have used the qualifier "probably."

        Cybersecurity is not that hard really. It is surprising the Iranians haven't figured it out after the prior attacks already but this should remind them to take it seriously.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shanen ( 462549 )

          I don't know that I can fully agree with that view. Yes, they will certainly want to boost their cyber defenses, but I think there is still a lot of "art" in cyber warfare, and I can see many reasons why Iran would have difficulties in recruiting and retaining the right artists. Rather I was thinking more along the lines of reducing cyber vulnerabilities per Cyber War by Richard Clarke.

          Someone else in this discussion made the interesting point that human agents were probably involved, too. Seems quite lik

        • Cybersecurity is not that hard really.

          Cybersecurity is not hard against outside threats.

          But Israel may have one or more moles on the inside.

          The sabotage last year and the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh both appear to have had inside help.

        • > Cybersecurity is not that hard really

          Yeah, we spend a trillion dollars a year trying to make things secure and still utterly fail because it's *easy*.

          Other things that are "not that hard" include:
          World peace
          Getting everyone eating healthy food
          Covid
          Resolving the fundamental conflict between equity vs equal results

          • Yeah, we spend a trillion dollars a year trying to make things secure and still utterly fail because it's *easy*.

            Context.

            When you have control over the network environment you have to protect, it is easy. Many companies and organizations do this. The remainder do not, or can not, and yes there is a billions-and-billions market selling stuff to them. I work in that market. The controlled companies buy cyber defense products but less of them and use them better. These are the type of operations that don't allow web browsers on their employee's computers, and the employees do not have admin access to anything.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by nagora ( 177841 )

          Cybersecurity is not that hard really.

          That's right: just switch everything off and then incinerate it.

          On the other hand, if you want to actually do something with your computers then it gets so difficult that billions of dollars are spent on cybersecurity every year without achieving 100% success.

          Actually, now I think about it, you might be wrong.

  • Stuxnet 2: Electric Booglaloo

  • Israel, (Score:1, Insightful)

    by fredrated ( 639554 )

    the most dangerous, destabilizing country in the Middle East.

    • Instability caused by Israel is really par for course in that region. Seriously, it's everyone against everyone. Israel just gets the attention because it's considered to be holy land. However, if you are their enemy then yes, they are the most dangerous country because of their nuclear capability. However, this capability has actually stabilized their nation because it's a massive deterrent as no nation wants to be nuked.

    • You couldn't say that if Iraq was still a real country.

      And no, I can't figure out if I'm joking. There are SO many candidates in that neck of the woods.

    • Tell us more about your struggle.

    • Not really, but then we'd be here all night talking about a region that's older than most of the countries people are posting from.

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      I'd say the US is worse. Getting rid of Saddam caused the formation of ISIS.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by snowshovelboy ( 242280 )

      Lol, I think the Palestinian apartheid sucks as much as anyone else, but Israel weren't the ones that destroyed secular democracy in Iran just because it looked like their citizens might vote for a communist. They also weren't the ones that formed an international coalition to destroy Iraq over some imaginary mobile WMD factories.

      • In the UK’s and US’ defence, they did nationalise their oil production, and there is no crime against humanity more hideous than that.

    • Re:Israel, (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Sunday April 11, 2021 @05:43PM (#61261724)

      Existing and seeking to defend one’s own existence is no more destabilizing to a region than a “punchable face” is an incitement to engage in violence. When a bully is not being shy about the fact that they’re working on building a bigger stick with which to bludgeon you, breaking his stick before he can use it is a reasonable response that improves stability.

      • And, let's face it, Israel only wants to defend it's own existence on the entirety of everyone else's land. Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt: Israel has occupied them all and only got out of Egypt and Lebanon when it was proven to be impossible to remain. And it didn't even leave all Lebanese territory, because it needed the water.

        • So many false statements in such a small amount of words. Palestine? Was that a region on the British map that was drawn after WWI?

          After getting invaded multiple times, having a buffer zone makes a lot of sense. The only thing that Israel did wrong was keep the refugees on their side of the border. They should have moved them to the Sinai or given them parts of Syria after the Yom Kippur invasion.

          • After getting invaded multiple times, having a buffer zone makes a lot of sense. The only thing that Israel did wrong was keep the refugees on their side of the border. They should have moved them to the Sinai or given them parts of Syria after the Yom Kippur invasion.

            So, Israel didn't invade and occupy its neighbours but it should have ethnically cleansed the Palestinians into its neighbour's territory, which it can take with impunity? Way to go doubling down! Well done, and thank you for backing my statements up so well.

      • not recommending this, but to continue using the metaphor: if a bully has a stick with which to beat you, developing a taste for it may be a longterm solution.

    • MBS (Score:2)

      by rossdee ( 243626 )

      Don't forget Saudi Arabia, who is also fighting a war with Iran.

    • No the most destablizing item in the middle east are the middle easteners. Those idiots have been killing each other since the beginning of time. Go read Mohammads own biography, every other page theres a way, or some friend gets killed by another friend. If you examine muslim history of the first 12 caliphs after Mohammad, only ONE died of natural causes the rest were you know friends and family poisoning, killing, a friendly stab in the back and so on.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Religion of Peace
    • Every other country hates Israel. Itâ(TM)s like saying murderers exist so people who walk alone at night are the problem!

  • Israel just promised the other day to take aggressive action against Iran because Biden's group is going to restart the Obama nuclear deal. They probably weren't lying.

  • I don't know if it's Israel but it sure seems some organization(s) have very deep penetration into their nuclear program. I mean it's clear like a Robert Hanssen / Aldrich Ames level compromise or worse. But by doing shit like this, it seems they are overplaying their hand in paranoia or desperation. It doesn't seem strategic. They seem to *want* to create paranoia and peer suspicion within the regime of Iran. But is that smart? It could easily get their guys compromised. It looks to me like the organizati

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shanen ( 462549 )

      Rather unclear, but interesting angle. It's almost as though the attackers think that Iran is completely full of idiots. Sure would be nice for some folks if that were true.

      But I doubt it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      It could easily get their guys compromised.

      "Their guys" inside Iran are most probably disaffected Iranians. Mossad doesn't give a damn if they are lined up against a wall and shot.

    • I don't know if it's Israel but it sure seems some organization(s) have very deep penetration into their nuclear program. I mean it's clear like a Robert Hanssen / Aldrich Ames level compromise or worse. But by doing shit like this, it seems they are overplaying their hand in paranoia or desperation. It doesn't seem strategic. They seem to *want* to create paranoia and peer suspicion within the regime of Iran. But is that smart? It could easily get their guys compromised. It looks to me like the organization or government driving things has succumbed to impatience and human nature. As far as I know the typical idealistic strategy for these type of things is to have patience and get a large number of Manchurian candidates into high level positions there to take over the regime following some leadership crisis. I mean logically they may want to do it like how the CIA supposedly helped subtly select and maneuver Deng Xiaoping into position but not something as not-well-thought-out and disastrous as Operation Ajax.

      I don't really understand the endgame but their objective is to prevent the Nuclear deal, so anything they can do to attack Iran raises tensions and makes resuscitating the Nuclear deal more difficult.

      Again, I don't get the actual endgame though my theory is the plan is to make sure Iran and the US stay enemies so the US is obliged to keep protecting Israel. Therefore, when Israel does something like formally annex all of the occupied territories (potentially deporting Palestinians at the same time) the int

  • A terrorist attack on a US nuclear facility would be front page news, but when Israel carries out a terrorist attack in an anti-imperialist nation it will barely be mentioned.

  • I mean, does Iran fabricate their own logic chips? Almost anything with a motherboard is probably pwned in Iran, yes?

  • ...they should know not to connect anything to the internet.

  • WHY ? (Score:3)

    by AlexHilbertRyan ( 7255798 ) on Sunday April 11, 2021 @06:45PM (#61261828)
    If they believe in Allah and his mercifulness and care why would they need weapons ? Surely praying 5 times a day is good enuff. Same question for christians in america, if you believe in jesus or god, why do you need a gun or weapons, ask your heavenly friends to save you.
    • if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
      • So explain why Peter was carrying a sword and explain why Jesus or any of the other disciples never said anything before Peter used it ?
        THe disciples are no different to yesterdays or todays christians or muslims.
  • As is his personal assistant who's gone missing. https://tinyurl.com/3hzcudmm [tinyurl.com]
  • After the first time, you'd think they would have learned.
  • America's allies, Pakistan, will make sure that the Iranians get nukes, one way or another. "My enemy's enemy is my friend."

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