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Australia Security Technology

Australia's NDIS Gets a Government App With Blockchain But No Ethics (zdnet.com) 47

Posted by BeauHD from the what-could-possibly-go-wrong dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: Good news, disabled Australians! You'll soon be getting an app that will implement a welfare compliance regime designed by the people who brought you robo-debt. But don't worry, it'll have blockchain. No, this isn't good news at all. What makes it worse is that it's clear the government wants to extend technology-driven compliance to all Australians, with an emphasis on cracking down on your mistakes, not theirs. Kathryn Campbell, Secretary of the Department of Social Services, says the long-term plan is to have one app for all Commonwealth government services. "One to rule the world," she said last month, apparently oblivious to how evil that sounds.

Senators are already worried that the disability app, intended to be used by participants in the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) to claim expenses against their support plan, will go the way of COVIDSafe: Millions of dollars spent on technology that doesn't really do the job. The intention was to fix a poor web experience, and allow claims to be made from a mobile device. But instead of simply creating a better website, in 2018, the Digital Transformation Agency (DTA) joined forces with CSIRO's Data61 and the Commonwealth Bank to trial blockchain-based smart money that would magically know whether the expense was legitimate or not. According to the CEO of the National Disability Insurance Agency (NDIA), Martin Hoffman, that pilot app has been "very popular and well-received," and the feedback has been "extremely positive." The app will be "fully available in the coming months, first on Google Play and then Apple's app store," he said. "Given the horrendously complex NDIS environment, defective processes and vulnerable people, there needs to be considerable caution in the application of blockchain technology," wrote former NDIS Technology Authority chief Marie Johnson in a submission [PDF] to the Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on the NDIS. "Blockchain in itself -- as with other technology innovations -- does not address fundamental design and human rights issues. Ethics is paramount. The involvement of the Commonwealth Bank itself raises further ethics issues, given the value of participant data; the size of the market; and the yet to be realized emarket honey pot of data, funds and services."

You can view the detailed "Making Money Smart: Empowering NDIS participants with Blockchain technologies" report here (PDF).
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Australia's NDIS Gets a Government App With Blockchain But No Ethics More

Australia's NDIS Gets a Government App With Blockchain But No Ethics

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  • sad it is highlighted as blockchain (Score:3)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @10:42PM (#61271124)
    there is actually nothing special here that requires blockchain and the fact they call it out as a key thing makes me very suspect of the rest of the program, like all blockchain implementations it looks like a solution in search of a problem. It kinda sorta fits so lets use it.

    • They don't explain it. It sounds like it's being used to create a closed market. If I give you cash for medical expenses, you could just go buy alcohol. Unless you use some system of debt. This essentially removes the debt but adds some point if exchange. You could go to the doctor, pay with this block chain currency, and then have the doctor exchange with the government for the cash. It also adds a layer that authenticated these transactions, so things like medicad fraud become harder. If manufacturers ar

      • Re: sad it is highlighted as blockchain (Score:4, Interesting)

        by AlexHilbertRyan ( 7255798 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:16AM (#61271244)
        > You could go to the doctor, pay with this block chain currenc
        People in Australia dont pay for the doctor with anything its free. Im sorry you have no idea how Australia functions you are not qualified to make these sort of statements.

        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          by IdanceNmyCar ( 7335658 )

          Listen here cunt, it's an example of an exchange. You are right I do not know how the Australia health system functions but the flaw you outlined hardly nullifies my whole statement.

          • Well since you dont understand the aust health system its a fair bet you dont understand many of the other functions provided by, and the related problems from the gov which is precisely my point.

            • That's fair but healthcare normally involves a market. It also mentions the NDIS and validating expenses, so clearly some money is being exchange somewhere. Even if the services are provided through social services, the government still needs to compensate the providers somehow. Authenticating both the production of goods and the legitimacy of the transactions can be secured using block-chain which is my main point.

              I also see the comment about human rights, so I agree there is more going on here but as you

              • > That's fair but healthcare normally involves a market. It also mentions the NDIS and validating expenses, so clearly some money is being exchange somewhere. Even if the services are provided through social services, the government still needs to compensate the providers somehow. Authenticating both the production of goods and the legitimacy of the transactions can be secured using block-chain which is my main point.
                For me, its obvious you are appraoching this as american where its all about the money

          • Listen here cunt,

            You do understand the Australian language however.

        • You can't pay for services above and beyond what the government will pay for? That sounds pretty authoritarian.
          • 99% of the world wishes they lived in Australia and a large part of that is the Australian gov and its policies. It may not be perfect but 99% of the world would happily submit to the authoritarian Australian gov, as opposed to the freedom of being held hostage to gun raving lunatics who think they are all heroes, and fundamentalist christians who think its charitable to not have free healthcare for all.

            • 99% of the world wishes they lived in Australia.

              Ha! Citation needed.

              • There are plenty of awards where basically all the australian cities are in the top 10. No other country gets 5+ cities in the top 10 most liveable etc.
                • I don't see anything like "99% of the world wishes they lived in Australia".
                  • A large portion of africa and western asia wants out of their shitholes, they try europe because its closest. Just with those peoples thats 20% of the world. The raw facts are that 50% of the worlds countries are shitholes, from Somalia, to Lebanon, some less liveable than others, but they are no where near on the same level as Australia. I havent even started to tally all the other horrible places, but hey i gues they all want to stay home and live in places with shitty water, barely functional electricity
              • google > top livable cities in the world & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
              • Australian weather, far better than most countries, few if any hurricanes, not cold like europe, has floods, but everybody does, clean water, little pollution, good clean quality food, beaches, nature, lack of crowds, beautiful sea I suppose if you like the following then australia isnt for you ? Gun massacres, bloody cold ?, violence ? gangs ? poor people begging in the streets ?

        • > You could go to the doctor, pay with this block chain currenc People in Australia dont pay for the doctor with anything its free. Im sorry you have no idea how Australia functions you are not qualified to make these sort of statements.

          So Aussie doctors are just paid with unicorns and rainbow farts, huh? Cool. That explains all the guys in scrubs I saw begging on the street corners.

          (For a minute I thought that you were saying that Australians pay their doctors through some government funding scheme, but I'm glad you clarified that it's all "free'!)

          • > So Aussie doctors are just paid with unicorns and rainbow farts, huh? Cool.
            Are you that slow you cant tell the diff between the patient and the doctor ? > That explains all the guys in scrubs I saw begging on the street corners.
            There are basically. no beggars or homeless people in Australia unlike america where you see them on a very many street corners. LA prolly has mor ehomeless in their CBD than Australia has in the entire country.

        • Yes, we do. We pay for it with these things called "taxes". Of course, since the current government wants to do away with this system in favour of something more like what the USAians use (fuck only knows why), the amount doctors are able to claim from the government and the actual cost of running a medical practice have grown increasingly out of step over the last 20 years or so, which means it is far more common to have to pay extra when you go to the doctor than it used to be, or even should be.

          • > Yes, we do. We pay for it with these things called "taxes".
            Really i had no idea, i mean i must be a fucking idiot not to figure that out. Its even stated on my tax return but i guess i cant read.
            > Of course, since the current government wants to do away with this system in favour of something more like what the USAians use (fuck only knows why), the amount doctors are able to claim from the government and the actual cost of running a medical practice have grown increasingly out of step over the
  • Millions of dollars spent defeloping software to insure soldiers are kept out of the hospitals, instead of insuring they have the most reasonable closest care.

    • Re:Reminds me of the US VA (Score:4, Funny)

      by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:11AM (#61271226) Journal

      That's because they didn't use blockchain. These vets should have bought Bitcoin. I transferred my retirement fund to Bitcoin when it was $20. Now I have my pick of the best doctors in the world, and I don't need the VA. Hell, I have my own Navy. Elon Musk was so impressed he gave me free Starlink. I'm posting this 200 miles out from Oahu right now.

      It's not too late, veterans. Sell whatever property you may have got through the G.I. bill and move your funds into Bitcoin. You'll beat decades worth of real estate appreciation in just three months. What are you, stupid? Why do you like being poor?

    • Here we go again, americans can never stop talking about themselves.

    • Kathryn Campbell, Secretary of the Department of Social Services, says the long-term plan is to have one app for all Commonwealth government services.

      It's Aus government software, it'll cost tens if not hundreds of millions, be years late, and not work. So there's nothing to worry about really, apart from it wasting your tax money.

  • MyGov takeover bid? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GumphMaster ( 772693 ) on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:53PM (#61271204)

    the long-term plan is to have one app for all Commonwealth government services.

    Yes, because the other one-to-rule-them-all, MyGov (http://my.gov.au), works so well.

    • They could add blockchain to MyGov and fix it's woes. /s

    • Yes, because the other one-to-rule-them-all, MyGov (http://my.gov.au), works so well.

      You jest, and sure the website has its warts. But it is largely far better than what came before. Mind you I don't think blockchain will improve it.

  • Robo-debt explained (Score:4, Informative)

    by NotEmmanuelGoldstein ( 6423622 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:21AM (#61271320)

    The [welfare services] Online Compliance Intervention (OCI) program from 2016 automatically compared the income declared to the Australian Taxation Office against income declared to [welfare services], which resulted in debt notices, along with a 10% recovery fee, being issued whenever a disparity in government data was detected.

    The comparing of tax records has been happening for 20 years, originally part of the National Identity Card which was scrapped but they kept the data-matching because it would recover 135M$ of fraudulent payments. The real recovery was 30M$ and people on welfare for less than 11 months, getting a "please explain" because their annual income was more than their welfare payments.

    The presumption of guilt in the policy, caused the scheme to be cancelled in 2020.

  • Why do we need caution because of NDIS? (Score:3)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:03AM (#61271368)

    Sure disabled people and complex processes add an extra layer, but here's a simplified version of that statement:

    Don't bolt pointless fucking blockchain on everything. At least private industry has largely moved on from the 2018 retardation. Now we just need governments and fintech to move on as well.

  • Is blockchain supposed to deal with human rights issues? Is the logging of government transactions an ethical problem? The way this is all worded doesn't make much sense. Are we talking about the ethics of taking what sounds like a broken system and tacking blockchains onto it for some unclear reason and foisting it upon confused users? It's one thing to point out that it doesn't address fundamental design flaws, a reasonable technical criticism, but why then try and throw human rights into the mix as i

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