Mercedes-Benz Unveils New Flagship EQS Electric Sedan To Take On Tesla (cnbc.com) 90
Mercedes-Benz's parent company Daimler AG unveiled Thursday its newest battery-powered sedan that challenges Tesla in the high-end electric car space. CNBC reports: The 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS, unveiled Thursday, marks a new era for the German automaker as it pivots to EVs. The car will be part of its large S-Class car family when it arrives in U.S. showrooms in the fall. Most notably, the interior of the vehicle looks like a cockpit out of a futuristic spacecraft more than a car. It has screens across nearly the entire dashboard of the vehicle. In total, it features three screens under a single 56-inch curved glass surface, including a passenger screen that will not be visible to the driver.
The automaker did not release pricing for the EQS, however industry experts expect it to easily top $100,000. The starting price on the 2021 Mercedes-Benz S-Class ranges between $94,000 and $160,000. Its Mercedes-Maybach S models can top $200,000. The price range for Tesla's Model S large sedan ranges from around $79,990 to $149,990, including a new high-end performance model, Model S Plaid.
The automaker did not release pricing for the EQS, however industry experts expect it to easily top $100,000. The starting price on the 2021 Mercedes-Benz S-Class ranges between $94,000 and $160,000. Its Mercedes-Maybach S models can top $200,000. The price range for Tesla's Model S large sedan ranges from around $79,990 to $149,990, including a new high-end performance model, Model S Plaid.
Re:Autopilot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
Re: Autopilot (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Autopilot (Score:4, Funny)
Current Tesla EVs have the hardware installed for full self-driving.
The software updates regularly and steadily improves.
It is not yet perfect, but it is way ahead of what Mercedes is offering, and future improvements are automatic.
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Wow such a simple question and you did everything but actually answer it, so the answer is NO.
NO vs NO
> but it is way ahead of what Mercedes is offering, and future improvements are automatic.
Maybe Mercedes do have somethibg but instead of bullshitting they are waiting to actually have soemething taht works. BUt hey why be honest when you
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
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Yeh that never goes wrong working out things in production, why bother testing medicines at all , when you can just let the. masses test.
Re: Autopilot (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm not seeing it like that. Rather, Daimler-Benz seems more reluctant than Tesla to put the safety of their customers and the general public at risk.
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>Current Tesla EVs have the hardware installed for full self-driving.
Maybe. It's not clear if they will ever get to full self driving with the current hardware. The cameras might be inadequate, and the computer might be inadequate.
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Tesla has been saying that the hardware in "current Teslas" is enough for FSD for, what, three or four hardware generations now? And they're still planning on more changes to the hardware platform to add processing power (rather than reduce SWaP-C)?
At some point, you would think even the Tesla partisans would catch on...
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"Current Tesla EVs have the hardware installed for full self-driving.
The software updates regularly and steadily improves.
It is not yet perfect"
Perceptions, perceptions, perceptions...
Qualitatively-wise this seems to be for too many people a feature that is "all-or-nothing": for them, car autopilot doesn't seem something that can work "most of the time", specially when it can come that "it suddenly stops working". It either works, or it doesn't. And Tesla's is still in the "it doesn't work" camp and for a
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
It's almost like it's a really hard thing to accomplish.
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Brain surgery is also hard, that doesnt mean we pretend qualifications dont matter, and we dont pretend its okay to bullshit about skills the person doesnt have.
Sound familiar ?
You didnt actually answer my question. NOt questioning how hard it is, im discussing HONESTY. It would appear from your lack of actually being able to be honest about my question, you yourself are a dishonest person.
Re: Autopilot (Score:1)
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So when is failure due to down right lying about said skills ?
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It would seem that you don't understand that there is a time when everything didn't work, which lasts right up until the time it does work. That's kind of how development of literally everything works.
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Thats irrelevant and doesnt change the fact claims about tesla and its autopilot product are bullshit. The name is a perfect example i tis not an autopilot by any definition and the name and the pretend claims it makes are a lie.
Re: Autopilot (Score:4, Funny)
Many cars from many companies drive themselves, but thats not really driving. A drunk also drives themselves, again that doesnt make it safe or adaquate.
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Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
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Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
Tesla vehicles do not only drive on immaculate dry roads in temperate sunshine, so I don't know why you think that matters. They drive in the same conditions as every other car, and run into those other cars significantly less frequently.
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> Statistics dont lie.
Apart from anything else, that is a rather naive view to take. Statistics often lie, sometimes deliberately so (as in this case).
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
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The Summon feature kinda works, but right now the self driving on highways is really good, and the new Beta for city streets is rather impressive, Not Level 5, but I would say once the Beta is released Tesla could be Level 3-4 Autonomy.
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Its only your words, really good because everyone else is watching out for when it makes mistakes. There are many articles on this about teslas doing dumb things because small traffic turns and stops can lead to mistkes and they happen a lot with teslas. Highways are
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Well, that's one issue. But as for Mercedes, I've had three. My antique '85 is easy to keep in good condition. The others were always in and out of the shop. At one point we had 2 that were under 10 years old. (I don't "shuffle" cars - I like to hang on to them and treat them well.) One went into the stealership's shop in November. They called and said it was done, so I swapped and took that home and left the other for some repairs. Both cars had continual issues and at least one of them was in the shop eve
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Tesla can keep their cars running without having to have them dragged into the shop every few months.
To be fair, that is mostly because there isn't much that can go wrong with an EV, other than the tires and the windshield wipers.
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Because it's complicated. Earlier, simpler electronic control systems were more reliable. Hitachi did some great work in the nineties, when cars were simple. Now they have variable this and multi-stage that, and emissions standards such and this other, and the whole thing is a lot more complex.
Also, because a lot of it is stupid. Putting PCMs in engine compartments, stupid. Connectors even in supposedly dry locations which aren't waterproofed, stupid. Not using dielectric grease on all connections, stupid.
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EVs are just naturally better than ICEVs because they are so much simpler. Motor speed controllers are complicated, but PCMs are complicated too so that's a wash... but the EV doesn't have the ICE. But that doesn't mean they aren't also crap.
If I were planning to buy a new car and keep it a long time, I wouldn't buy a Tesla. Their stance on service is offensive. But equally, I wouldn't buy an Audi, or lots of other brands either.
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So out of a field of 5 EVs you wouldn't buy many of them.
Yes, exactly like any other car. Most cars are shit.
I've never had serious problems with ICEs I've bought.
Congratulations? But ICEVs regularly have serious problems. The F150 I own now had something like six serious recalls, and it has serious design problems that weren't recalled like the cam phasers, two-piece spark plugs that come apart when removed, and spark plug holes in the heads that have half as many threads as the spark plug (i.e. not enough) so the plugs are known to spontaneously fly out of the fucking motor. The 300SD I just sold has design failur
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Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
Sounds like competitive advantage to me.
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
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So you are going to bitch about others' anecdotal evidence, and then cite your own anecdotes in other to refute their anecdotes?
Really?
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
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> My antique '85 is easy to keep in good condition.
A W123? Sometimes I really want one of those. They are classic, they are beautiful, they are overengineered. Unlike anything you can buy today.
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An R107 - 1985 380SL. I specifically wanted an '84 or '85 because I planned on driving it enough I wanted the smaller engine, but wanted one of the years after they fixed the timing chain issues.
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I had one older model from 1991 that I don't remember breaking at all; the newer ones - 2003 and up - needed constant expensive maintenance and repairs, to the tune of $1000 every quarter.
Now, I got my cars used and fairly high mileage - though not much compared to what Japanese cars do, so there is that.
My latest ones - vintage 2013 - have been fairly solid so far, but they are much lower mileage and there was little usage last 12 months
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The real issue is, will this compete against LICE? Ideally, it will take on ALL LICE, along with Tesla EVs. Tesla seriously needs competition. I am hoping that the refresh MS/X will destroy all of the current high end LICE vehicles, and then we just need competition.
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What is "LICE"?
Re:LICE (Score:2)
Legacy
Internal
Combustion
Engined
aka most of the vehicles produced the makers other than Tesla, Rivian etc.
Legacy. as in Ford, GM, BMW, Honday etc
ICE as in Conventional engines powered by Petrol/Gasoline or Diesel.
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What is the difference between LICE and ICE?
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Re: LICE (Score:2)
Re: Autopilot (Score:2)
RLByte has it correct. In order to bring down CO2 we need LICE makers to build EVs that beat LICE models.
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What the hell are you talking about?
the EQS has hands off autonomous driving AND OTA updates.
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So ugly interior (Score:2)
Why traditionnal car compagny almost always make ugly e-car, and the interior of this one.is the worsts I had see for now.
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You make it sound like an EV1 or a Leaf. I don't know how accurate the pictures in the article are to what will actually be released but it looks really nice to me. Both inside and out.
What's the complaint?
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"Why traditionnal car compagny almost always make ugly e-car"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] ?
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>"Why traditionnal car compagny almost always make ugly e-car, and the interior of this one.is the worsts I had see for now."
Don't know what you are talking about. Tesla just RUINED the "new" S with the stupid "huge-landscape-TV-in-center", minimal controls, and half square steering wheel. What I used to think was a neat design is now trash.
What Mercedes did is far more interesting, nice, and attractive. Just the sight of simulated analog meters on the main dash is a HUGE plus. Way outside MY price
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Yeah agreed, I think it looks nice of a luxury boat. If you have to have a giant screen in the car, that's how you do it. It seems to be missing any physical controls for the climate control but I imagine the target audience just sets it once after buying the car and never touches it anyway.
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This, so many times over.
Does anybody actually like this ridiculous touch screens in cars that require multiple menu taps to perform actions that used to be one hit of a button or a turn of a dial?
I'm actually hoping the electric F150 will have traditional controls. Maybe pickups will be more immune to the interface inanity?
Who cares. (Score:2, Interesting)
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My wife suffers from constant headaches, where I will need to stop work and drive her to the Doctors office. If we had a car that will drive itself, even at level 2 or 3 autonomy then she can go to the Doctors office without me having to leave work, as the strain of microdriving is no longer as much a factor.
Also as I get older, when I get into my 70's and 80's my driving reaction time may not be great, and may not be able to drive, so I will be forced to move from my home to an perhaps a retirement apartme
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I agree. With the increasing emphasis on road safety I was wondering when they were going to demand elderly drivers to retake driving ability tests. Many would fail with the result they get grounded. Good driving assists could offer more freedom to people who under stricter rules wouldn't be allowed on the road. That has a lot of value.
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Like i have said before you are victim of the car culture. The fact you cant work from home and many others also are not allowed to work from home, adds considerable traffic and thats just the s
Re: Who cares. (Score:2)
Let me guess, you said the same thing about cruise control? "If you can't maintain a speed with your right leg, then you shouldn't be driving" or some nonsense like that?
Did you also whine about automatic transmissions? Electric starter motors instead of a crank?
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Tell me how many hours a week do you drive ?
> Did you also whine about automatic transmissions? Electric starter motors instead of a crank?
You dont get it, every hour you drive is an hour you could be doing almost anything
Looks like a Taurus (Score:2)
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The Taurus was an aerodynamic car. EVs especially need to be very Aerodynamic as batteries have a lower energy density than fuel, so they need to be able to perform hundreds of miles with the same amount of energy as 3 or 4 gallons of gasoline. So Electric Cars that look like normal cars, will tend to look much like the Taurus. Otherwise they end up looking like Airplanes (Such as the Aptera), or Wedges like the Cybertruck, which many people have issues with things that look different and get repulsed wh
Mercedes made a car. Click baiting added Tesla (Score:4, Informative)
They might be hoping to at least hold their own against Telsa, but they know it is not going to be a cake walk after seeing the difficulties of VW with ID4 and other brands like BMW.
But if you write a EV story without mentioning Tesla it does not get the clicks. So every damned EV story must rope in Tesla. They have over used Tesla-killer so much even they feel the need to avoid it.
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In interviews and conference calls on Thursday Källenius avoided making any comparisons with Tesla,
Citation Provided [reuters.com]
Good luck to Daimler (Score:2)
In the end, we just need to replace all LICE with EVs.
Does primarily compete against S-Class, not Tesla (Score:2)
While every carmaker of BEVs competes each other (especially of course against the current 800-pound gorilla that is Tesla), Mercedes must convince first people who would buy traditionally S-Class vehicles that the EQS is a viable alternative.
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They are already competing with Tesla. I do some work at a country club which is pretty exclusive. I've had them as a client in for 15 years and the parking lot used to be packed with S-class Mercedes. On any given day now, there's more Teslas than S class. So I think among the moneyed set, a Tesla has become kind of a status symbol on the level of an S550.
The other vehicle that also seems to have increased over this time is the Suburban/Yukon, and lately, the new Ford Expedition, usually the top trim l
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E class is for peasants unless you buy the AMG E55 wagon which meets all the criteria for a great rich person vehicle. Entirely boring and practical form factor combined with a sports car engine and performance. Buying a $125,000 sports station wagon for its "practicality" is a true sign of luxury.
I sometimes think that Mercedes has spoiled their brand a bit by pushing so many down market vehicles and the only really lucrative vehicles anymore are the S550, G Wagon and maybe the largest G-class SUV. The
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Mercedes if done right, could compete against Tesla's Model S. However the Model S is no longer Tesla big money maker car. While Model 3 and Model Y seem to be what is driving Tesla at the moment. The Cybertruck may or may not be big hit. They are a lot of preorders for it, but Tesla also made these pre-orders cheap at $100 (Fully Refundable) so a lot of people probably just pre-ordered, and when times comes, they may drop their order, because they cannot afford it, or they went with some of the other e
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While every carmaker of BEVs competes each other (especially of course against the current 800-pound gorilla that is Tesla), Mercedes must convince first people who would buy traditionally S-Class vehicles that the EQS is a viable alternative.
As competition in EVs goes up, Tesla's marketshare goes down. They're no longer the #1 EV in Norway, to give an example - the Audi E-tron outsold it. There's also a ton of other EVs being sold in an increasing number of categories - VW ID.3s, Jaguar I-Pace, Porsche Taycan, Mercedes EQC, Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona etc. Sales have also started for VW ID.4, Mercedes EQA, a new version of Hyundai Ioniq, Skoda Eniaq and a lot of smaller cars.
As for the Mercedes EQS - it's going to be rather different than Tesla i
Ancient software? (Score:1)
We need mass market EVs not luxury (Score:2)
I can't help but wonder if car companies are again trying to make EVs that people won't buy, on purpose, simple to get the carbon credits and to make sure they are not losing too much money producing loss making vehicles - this was the entire purpose of the Chevy Volt, for example.