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As Outbreak Rages, India Orders Critical Social Media Posts to Be Taken Down (nytimes.com) 110

With a devastating second wave of Covid-19 sweeping across India and lifesaving supplemental oxygen in short supply, India's government on Sunday said it ordered Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to take down dozens of social media posts critical of its handling of the pandemic. From a report: The order was aimed at roughly 100 posts that included critiques from opposition politicians and calls for Narendra Modi, India's prime minister, to resign. The government said that the posts could incite panic, used images out of context, and could hinder its response to the pandemic. The companies complied with the requests for now, in part by making the posts invisible to those using the sites inside India. In the past, the companies have reposted some content after determining that it didn't break the law. The takedown orders come as India's public health crisis spirals into a political one, and set the stage for a widening struggle between American social media platforms and Mr. Modi's government over who decides what can be said online. On Monday, the country reported more than 350,000 new infections and more than 2,800 deaths, marking the fifth consecutive day it set a world record in daily infection statistics, though experts warn that the true numbers are probably much higher. The country now accounts for almost half of all new cases globally. Its health system appears to be teetering. Hospitals across the country have scrambled to get enough oxygen for patients.
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As Outbreak Rages, India Orders Critical Social Media Posts to Be Taken Down

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  • Say the word, and down the memory hole it goes...

    This kind of internet is just a TV set with a multitude of duplicate channels... OMG! Cable is back!

    • Well this isn't so easily buried (literally or figuratively) especially with the planet watching. That genie has been out of the bottle since cheap mass communications was invented.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        The idiots are creating their own panic through stupdity, trying to hide the number of infections and deaths. Well guess what silly bearacrats trying to hide the number of infections is all too easy, trying to hide the number of deaths is very high.

        What to really panic people have a way lower infection rate than reality indicates to make the hard to hide death and hospitalisation rate and generate a real panic. Want to calm the panic, stop hiding the infection rate, ramp it up tens of millions infected, th

  • Even in the US there are limits to "free speech". Take the common example of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre if there is no actual fire. One can argue a pandemic falls under this category, as it's a life and death situation affecting potentially millions of people. Just because it's slower than a theatre fire doesn't mean it less dangerous. Allowing medical BS to float about has mass life-and-death consequences.

    A compromise may be to require tagging such claims with alternative viewpoints and links, bu

    • by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:23PM (#61316356) Journal

      This isn't about medical BS. They're trying to cover up government BS, that is killing people, like in the US and Brazil. This whole thing is a story of murderous corruption. Where are the vaccine patent waivers?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by LenKagetsu ( 6196102 )

      Actually, yelling fire in a crowded theater is perfectly legal.

      • It's also something that judge who was responsible for the ruling that gave rise to this particular meme regretted. The argument itself wasn't used in relationship to a case on theaters, fires, or anything related either, but instead was used in a case to prosecute someone for distributing pamphlets against the draft in WWI. The analogy constructed by Justice Holmes was a gross misrepresentation of that particular case in every way.

        Really it's being applied in almost the same way here, where if the gover
    • by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:27PM (#61316374)

      Shouting fire in a theatre when there isn't one vs criticism of and calls for Modi to resign are not the same.

      The order was aimed at roughly 100 posts that included critiques from opposition politicians and calls for Narendra Modi, India's prime minister, to resign.

    • by invid ( 163714 )
      With the fire in a theater analogy, it's like there is a fire in the theater and Modi is gagging people who are trying to shout "Fire!".
    • A compromise may be to require tagging such claims with alternative viewpoints..

      What exactly is the alternative viewpoint when people are dying only because of a lack of oxygen? Not sure you can dismiss that kind of thing easily, and tends to explain how citizens went from zero-to-resign-the-PM in a matter of days.

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

      The 'common example' is just wrong. There is no law against yelling 'fire' in a theater, falsely or not. The laws you are alluding to are about causing a panic, and the consequences of that. And that is where your analogy falls apart. If someone yells 'fire' in a theater, you have literally seconds to react to that. You do not have time to think, or consider alternatives. Your brain just says 'get out now'. OTOH, if someone posts something on Facebook, whether it is 'medical BS' or not, you do NOT HAV

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      On the other hand, if there actually is a fire, you are free (even encouraged) to yell fire, pull the fire alarm, and post pictures. There actually IS an oxygen shortage in India.

      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        Amazon is transporting 8500 oxygen concentrators and BiPAP machines into India right now, and buying 1500 more themselves to donate.

        https://blog.aboutamazon.in/co... [aboutamazon.in]

        I'm sure some twit here will find a way to claim that it's an evil move by Bezos to take over the world or something.

    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      Take the common example of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre if there is no actual fire. One can argue a pandemic falls under this category

      One can argue that but one would dead wrong. The fire in a crowded theater issues comes down to not the truth or fiction of the fire, its that it incites panic where people will immediately react and thus a clear and present danger. You could in theory face criminal charges for inciting a panic even if there was a fire. The point was 1A does not confer upon you the right to break other laws just because speech is involved, unless the law itself is placing an undue burden on your ability to exercise your rig

      • You could in theory face criminal charges for inciting a panic even if there was a fire.

        Indeed. Furthermore, if you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but fail to incite a panic (perhaps because people look around and see no fire), then you are unlikely to be charged with a crime.

        It is not the speech that is illegal.

        When someone brings up the "shouting fire in a theater" analogy, they are usually trying to justify the suppression of "dangerous" political dissent.

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          Not always. In recent days, it's been used to point out that free speech, even in the U.S., has never been absolute.

          Interestingly, our founding fathers, rather quickly, moved to suppress certain kinds of speech against the government. [house.gov]

          In one of the first tests of freedom of speech, the House passed the Sedition Act, permitting the deportation, fine, or imprisonment of anyone deemed a threat or publishing “false, scandalous, or malicious writing” against the government of the United States.

          [...]

          the Sedition Act eventually expired on March 3, 1801; however, arguments made for and against it shaped subsequent debate about constitutional protections of free speech.

    • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @02:49PM (#61316714)

      This is a democratic country that is slowly being strangled by an anti-democratic government. This move is not about protecting lives or preventing misinformation, it is solely about protecting the Modi administration. The only part that is related to a pandemic is from Modi using the pandemic as an excuse to crack down on critics.

    • Really? That's what passes for an insightful comment on Slashdot these day?

      Modi's priorities have always been wrong. If there are any questions, it's how wrong and for who or what. Mostly his priorities are against things democratic, but I'm sure he thinks that he's an extremely benevolent dictator, to which I reply TANSTAA-BSD (Benevolent Stable Dictatorship).

      Covid-19 is a MEDICAL problem and the #1 priority should be the medical response. Not news, but it could have been about 15 months ago if more govern

    • by shanen ( 462549 )

      Even in the US there are limits to "free speech". Take the common example of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre if there is no actual fire. One can argue a pandemic falls under this category, as it's a life and death situation affecting potentially millions of people. Just because it's slower than a theatre fire doesn't mean it less dangerous. Allowing medical BS to float about has mass life-and-death consequences.

      A compromise may be to require tagging such claims with alternative viewpoints and links, but that's hard to ramp up quickly on a large scale. And virus experts needed for good vetting are in short supply. Let's not turn "freedom" into "freedumb".

      Kind of funny that I have to anti-censor quote your initially "Insightful" comment after the trolls censor-modded it. Slashdot has a funny way of giving out mod points these days.

      Yeah, my reply was mostly disagreeing with you, but per my Subject, my disagreement was focused on the priorities. Censoring you for commenting on censorship seems to call for some sort of "Funny" mod.

      Here's a funny idea: Negative mods should require justification, and any sock puppet who is too eager with the unjustified censorshi

    • by jlar ( 584848 )

      Even in the US there are limits to "free speech". Take the common example of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre if there is no actual fire. One can argue a pandemic falls under this category, as it's a life and death situation affecting potentially millions of people. Just because it's slower than a theatre fire doesn't mean it less dangerous. Allowing medical BS to float about has mass life-and-death consequences.

      A compromise may be to require tagging such claims with alternative viewpoints and links, but that's hard to ramp up quickly on a large scale. And virus experts needed for good vetting are in short supply. Let's not turn "freedom" into "freedumb".

      Allowing governments to hide mishandling of a pandemic has mass life-and-death consequences.

      In fact your opinions will cause mass life-and-death consequences if they become prevalent enough. We better silence you.

  • Freedom dies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geek ( 5680 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:19PM (#61316348)

    "The government said that the posts could incite panic, used images out of context, and could hinder its response to the pandemic"

    As a citizen those words should put the fear of God into you. When the Government believes you are so stupid and pathetic that you're unable to discern the truth for yourself that they must protect you through force there is literally nowhere to go but down. The entire premise of Democracy is dying via censorship all over the world because why exactly? A certain segment of the population thinks you're better off being ruled and dictated to. "You're too dumb, we'll do the thinking for you"

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by LenKagetsu ( 6196102 )

      The proper response to a corrupt politician is a length of rope and a nearby tree.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        The proper response to a corrupt politician is a length of rope and a nearby tree.

        No.

        The proper response to a corrupt politician is to expose the corruption and make sure to vote the politician out of office as soon as possible.

        The proper response to people like you, however, is a length of rope and a nearby tree. I mean, you already admitted being ok with the method for others, so it should be perfectly fine for you as well.

    • True, now flip over to the college [slashdot.org] story we just had and note the geek perception of everyone else. You complain about the government treating people as though they're dumb, and yet we do the same thing. If the public isn't the product of some higher education or god forbid they went into basket weaving (euphemism for any education we look down on) then they're dumb too.

      • by geek ( 5680 )

        True, now flip over to the college [slashdot.org] story we just had and note the geek perception of everyone else. You complain about the government treating people as though they're dumb, and yet we do the same thing. If the public isn't the product of some higher education or god forbid they went into basket weaving (euphemism for any education we look down on) then they're dumb too.

        I dont have power over people and they didnt elect me. I can call them and YOU a fucking retard all day long and its my opinion. If I hold a gun to your head while calling you a retard then you might have a point. Until then, you're a fucking retard, have a nice day.

        • Remember that it is we who torment, we who make difficulties for ourselves — that is, our opinions do. What, for instance, does it mean to be insulted? Stand by a rock and insult it, and what have you accomplished? If someone responds to insult like a rock, what has the abuser gained with his invective?"

          — Epictetus, Discourses I, 25.28–29

    • by Anonymous Coward

      When the Government believes you are so stupid and pathetic that you're unable to discern the truth for yourself that they ...

      ... are correct ~60% of the time.

      Proof: the parent post demonstrating use of "slippery slope" argument fueled by unwavering ideology to imlpy that governments are focused on oppressing the population.

      • Hmmm. Why did you post this as Anonymous Coward?

        I have been running for a long time on the assumption that all Anonymous Coward posts are from Russian trolls, trying to incite social disharmony. But this post is pretty much spot-on.

        I must reflect on whether this means that said Russian trolls have successfully radicalized me and skewed my perspective to the point that the drivel they spout actually makes sense, or whether to figure out some other reason that slashdot posters would post as Anonymous Coward

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      As a citizen those words should put the fear of God into you. When the Government believes you are so stupid and pathetic that you're unable to discern the truth for yourself that they must protect you through force there is literally nowhere to go but down. The entire premise of Democracy is dying via censorship all over the world because why exactly? A certain segment of the population thinks you're better off being ruled and dictated to. "You're too dumb, we'll do the thinking for you"

      Yeah ... that

      • all the time. Try advertising on national TV that sugar pills cure cancer and see how far you get.

        Like all things there's a grey area, and it's up to democracy and the India people's application of it to manage and maintain that grey area. To do that you need enough education and enough democracy to make that system work. That means lots of critical thinking training unencumbered by propaganda and it means absolutely no voter suppression.

        And if you're not willing to push for and maintain those 2 thi
      • Re:Freedom dies (Score:5, Interesting)

        by LatencyKills ( 1213908 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @03:16PM (#61316794)
        I'm really torn on this, but it appears that some percentage of the US population is just too stupid to discern the truth. They risked their lives and the lives of others, raided a federal building and caused a shit ton of property damage, based on the lie that the election was somehow stolen, a lie that was examined and litigated in dozens of lawsuits and recounts, in red states and blue, by republican secretaries of state and democrats, by liberal and conservative judges, all the way the the supreme court (three times). and found to be completely baseless. Yet they still believe that lie, and likely that the earth is flat, and that the moon is made of cheese. I don't even know what you do with people that dumb. I'd say ignore them, but the fact of the matter is that, for some reason, we sell people that stupid guns (it seems we sell people that stupid even more guns), and they're prone to violence. The internet connected us, but it also connected the village idiots who found they were not alone anymore - every village had an idiot. So I don't know, but if a private company, a social media company that serves no purpose, wants to put in a filter for dumb, and their stupidity gets caught in it, I can't get all worked up about that. if that makes you all frowny faced, go old school: buy a bullhorn, stand the street corner, and yell until someone throws rocks at you.
        • There is nothing to be torn about.

          The damage done by a few ratbags on the Capitol was pretty minor in the scheme of things, even given a few were killed. Lots of news coverage, but more get killed every hour on American roads.

          The damage done by not having a free press and freedom of speech is much, much greater. The moment you declare an arbiter of truth, you need to decide who that arbitrator would be. And the likes of Trump would gladly volunteer.

          "Those that would trade freedom for security deserve nei

          • by jwdb ( 526327 )

            Not torn, then, but left with a dilemma.

            I think you're right, and another rhetorical question that illustrates the danger of allowing people to be deplatformed is "What if Zuckerberg was a Q adherent?". We got lucky this time that none of the company bigwigs were nuts, but that might not always be the case.

            However, if we accept that deplatforming/censorship/whatever is not a good option, then what do we do about the violent nuts that get stoked up by viral speech? The Capitol storming wasn't the first incid

        • and they're prone to violence

          I know. You see more and more antifa's carrying at the riots now.

      • Different things though. The company that refused to back a gay wedding cake was about violating a state law regarding businesses that sell to the public. One side phrased it incorreclty as a violation of religious liberty, but was extremely vague in showing this was the case (or what particular religious prohibition they were referring to, as it's not in my copies of the Bible). The SCOTUS backed that baker by the way, the baker won. The case with social media sites is taking the same side as the bake

      • by Nugoo ( 1794744 )

        What’s bizarre is that so many don’t see this. Their positions just flop back and forth like an asphyxiating fish. “That company refused to bake a gay wedding cake, we need to pass a law right now!” ... the next day ... “that company banned conservatives, well, they’re a private company and can do what they want, gosh, haven’t you read the constitution?”

        I never got the impression that the "private company can do what they want" argument was entirely in good faith. Rather, it looked to me like the people making the argument were deliberately using the argument that Republicans made during that famous bakery case as a way to show the hypocrisy of Republicans. In fact, lots of posts I saw on Slashdot making the "private company can do what they want" argument would cite the bakery case as an example of Republicans making that argument.

        Also, I don't recall t

    • Re: (Score:1, Redundant)

      I doubt you're a citizen of India; correct me if I'm wrong. But assuming you're not, then please do not posit an Amero-centric view on other nations and their approach to free speech.

      India values free speech and it is in the Constitution, but the Indian Constitution allows the curtailing of free speech by the legislature under certain conditions. 2 of those conditions, Security of the State and maintenance of public order, absolutely cover pandemic response. This means that the government is operatin

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        Why not? While there may be cultural nuances and specific situations in other societies, I am free to think of it as I will. I am also free to express those thoughts as I will. What I don't have is a right to demand that the other society bend to my will.

      • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        please do not posit an Amero-centric view on other nations and their approach to free speech.

        Why not? Should we not look at any other behaviors through the lenses of our values? Are we wrong to criticize Iran for executing homosexuals?

        India values free speech and it is in the Constitution, but the Indian Constitution allows the curtailing of free speech by the legislature under certain conditions. 2 of those conditions, Security of the State and maintenance of public order

        Well those gaps you can drive a truck thru. Personally I don't think a society that would accept that language in their Constitutions actually values freedom of speech much at all. Sounds like banal lip service to me.

        India set their restrictions via the democratic process; it is improper to criticize something that is happening within the boundaries set by that process per the values of a different nation.

        Again sorry no - its not improper to criticize at all. They can listen to such criticism or not. What gives them any right whatsoever to tell me what t

      • it is improper to criticize something that is happening within the boundaries set by that process per the values of a different nation

        So, you feel suppression can be validated by the speech being "improper". You're really not all that gunge-ho for free speech.

    • On the one hand, yes. All governments will use the idea that "you can't handle the truth" as justification for spreading lies and causing terrible harm.

      On the other hand, most people actually are stupid, and actually do spread very harmful stupidity online. We see examples of this all the time, including crazy conspiracy theories like 5G causing coronavirus in humans, microchips in the vaccines, Trump fighting a secret war against pedophiles, and a man in the sky who will make us all immortal so he can to

      • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        and a man in the sky who will make us all immortal so he can torture most of us in fire forever.

        Or I am the result some chance chemical reactions followed by some hundreds of millions of years of a survival of the fittest battle royal, there 8.4 billion other animals exactly like me but for some reason my suffering/life matters in appease of a higher moral authority.

        • I am not sure what "higher moral authority" you are referring to. As far as anyone can tell, the only beings in the world that even talk about morality are humans, and the only moral authorities they have to go by are other humans.

          Anyway, if the evolution model seems absurd to you, that's fine. Of course, that absurdity does not, in-and-of-itself, make any ancient myths about supernatural beings any less absurd. And there is still the issue of "evidence," which the evolution model has a lot of, and which

      • On the other hand, most people actually are stupid, and actually do spread very harmful stupidity online.

        Oh? So more than half the people in the country/world/whatever post their thoughts on the internet? And their thoughts are nearly universally wrong?

        Nah, it's more likely that whomever posted the above is prejudiced against anyone who doesn't have exactly the same beliefs and values he/she/it has...

        • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

          On the other hand, most people actually are stupid, and actually do spread very harmful stupidity online.

          Oh? So more than half the people in the country/world/whatever post their thoughts on the internet? And their thoughts are nearly universally wrong?

          Go ask any ordinary person if eating oily food will make them fat, or if putting a hand in the microwave while it's on can give them cancer. That's before we get to anything complicated, like whether APIs should be copyrightable or who their state assembly representative is.

    • People are that dumb now. Flat earthers, anti vaxxers, religious nutjobs, the list goes on.

    • When the Government believes you are so stupid and pathetic that you're unable to discern the truth for yourself that they must protect you through force there is literally nowhere to go but down. The entire premise of Democracy is dying via censorship all over the world because why exactly? A certain segment of the population thinks you're better off being ruled and dictated to. "You're too dumb, we'll do the thinking for you"

      The government does not take actions like that, for the reasons you assume.

      It's not hard to manipulate or control Fucking Stupid.

      It's very hard to manipulate and control Smart Citizen.

      This isn't about a lack of intelligence. This is about a lack of Control.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      When the Government believes you are so stupid and pathetic that you're unable to discern the truth for yourself that they must protect you through force there is literally nowhere to go but down.

      These people believe that they alone are smart enough to see the truth. [realrawnews.com] I recommend you read the comments and tell me if these people are capable of sorting fact from fiction.

  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday April 26, 2021 @01:32PM (#61316382)

    For almost every military out there, when they bring in new recruits. Is they give them a Uniform, make them follow a strict dress code and a code of conduct. They suppress their personal identity, and put them in a rigid command structure.
    This is an important part of an effective military, because large and complex decisions need to be pushed out fast and accurately. Having Solders second guess , debate their orders or even take the time to fully understand the big picture of their orders would be costly as the actions needed may not be able to get completed.

    So for India to block all debate and alternate messages makes a lot of sense. As there is a big problem and they need people to act and follow the orders in time frame of days vs weeks or months for them to really get a full picture.

    That said the local citizenship is not the military, and didn't sign up to be controlled like that, and having obvious taking down of descent and other ideas, may create a chilling effect where they may not follow the guidelines as it might just seem like a political power grab.

    • No, because this is just more of Modi suppressing his political opposition and any criticism of himself and his administration. This is what dictators do, and Modi is not very far away from being a dictator. Modi is only using the pandemic emergency as an excuse to crack down even further on free press and free speech. For the largest democracy in the world, India right now has a woeful lack of actual democracy. There must be debate allowed in a democracy, there is never a good excuse to ban all debate.

    • That said the local citizenship is not the military, and didn't sign up to be controlled like that, and having obvious taking down of descent and other ideas, may create a chilling effect where they may not follow the guidelines as it might just seem like a political power grab.

      Under emergency situations the government has the power to impose martial law and exert military powers on regular citizens in the interest of national security. I would think that the level Covid is at in India qualifies for that.

      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Modi was pulling this shit before Covid, in Kashmir for example where they removed a States government, something that should be next to impossible in a federation, cut off the internet for the longest time etc. Likewise with their war on small farmers.
        I'm on the other side of the world from India (west coast of Canada) and I run into more protests against Modi then anti-maskers. At least the Modi protesters use cars and tractors to protest instead of spitting in peoples faces.

  • Censorship is bad (Score:1, Redundant)

    by fermion ( 181285 )
    But responsible governments need to use whatever power they have to protect public health. The amount of FUD about the vaccine and minimization of the danger of COVID is staggering. People are still thinking if they are young they are safe, while some hospitals are reporting that they are maxed out with young patients on ventilators, paid for by the Taxpayer. South Dakota has had a extraordinary number of it people die, yet less than half his received their first dose. In the southeastern US a third of vacc
    • Only a corrupt government needs to silence its critics. This isn't about the anti-vax FUD, it's about protecting Modi

    • in many places, like South Dakota there is lots of employ space for the bodies, no one notices.

      What a line of bullshit, scare propo. It doesn't even make a modicum of sense as the relatives of those 'bodies' would fucking notice.

  • This is no different than Trump purging anything he didn’t like from the Government; Anything from Climate change information https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0... [nytimes.com] to non-loyalist employees including career staff, not political appointees. https://www.govexec.com/workfo... [govexec.com]
  • Modern societies with large manufacturing industries use an immense amount of oxygen which is produced at the same cryo plants as medical oxygen. Industrial oxygen while not certified for medical use is far "cleaner" than the atmosphere sufficiently so that private pilots frequently transfill their small aviation cylinders using commonly available (and easy to make from plentiful standard fittings) from industrial cylinders. Mixed-gas divers also transfill their own cylinders and none of this is new or exo

    • That's actually a rather good question. Wonder why the media isn't asking?

      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        My media reported that the Indian government ordered all industrial oxygen diverted to medical use a few days back. The hospitals are overwhelmed.

    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Some days ago the Indian government ordered industry to divert all industrial oxygen for medical care. Thing is is that things are really bad there. Sure the government says not, but the crematoriums are going over time lighting up the sky, and not doing the very important religious rites, likewise with grave yards. People are going from hospital to hospital looking for care before suffocating. Things are much worse then the government, which declared victory a couple of months ago, will admit.

  • Fake news is fake.

    The posts taken down were using old and misleading images to âoecriticiseâ the government.

    Plenty of genuine posts are untouched.

  • Thus solving the problem once and for all.
  • Isn't the infection going up a lot because of the mass festival that millions of India people did a few weeks ago? It seems obvious that the virus is going to infect a lot of people if you all stand squashed together with bare arms.
    I'm sure the government did things wrong, but people these days don't seem to take any responsibility themselves. It's like here in the UK. As soon as restrictions are lifted people do the maximum they can and the rate goes back up. Just because you can doesn't mean you shoul

  • Criminal negligence; Modi should be in Jail, if Constitution permits;

    There is no cure to psychopaths https://archive.ph/NUSG4 [archive.ph]
    And this is why British recommended separate electorates/countries to UC/BC/SC/ST/MC https://archive.ph/QkTja [archive.ph]

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