Biden Test Drives Ford F-150 Lightning Electric Pickup (cnet.com) 280
During a visit to Ford's Rouge factory in Dearborn, Michigan on Tuesday, President Joe Biden got a chance to test drive Ford's all-electric new Lightning pickup truck. CNET reports: What was the presidential verdict after taking the Lightning for a spin? "This sucker's quick!" he exclaimed, adding that he'd buy one. A reporter asked how quick it was, and Biden said it did 0-60 mph in 4.3 or 4.4 seconds, looking to a Ford employee for clarification, who quickly declined to comment. The president then did a hard launch from a stop right in front of the press pool, accelerating to 80 mph. The Ford F-150 Lightning is officially set to debut on Wednesday at 6:30 p.m. PT (9:30 p.m. ET).
Seems legit (Score:3, Interesting)
I am fine with the president doing a soft plug for Ford lol.
Seems ok.
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But if he attends his own golf course we're going to raise a big stink about the Emoluments clause.
Re:Seems legit (Score:5, Insightful)
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his own golf course
Ah, a rare selfawarewolf in the wild!
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Also with him threatening to run over [yahoo.com] a reporter during the event. No word on whether he could run over somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and get away with it.
Re:Seems legit (Score:5, Informative)
As President Joe Biden on Tuesday test-drove Ford's new electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck, he joked that he would run over a reporter asking about Israel.
"Mr. President, can I ask you a quick question on Israel before you drive away, since it's so important?" a reporter said.
"No, you can't - not unless you get in front of the car as I step on it. I'm only teasing,"
I'm only teasing. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the difference between a president and a lunatic. The president confirms he is joking as he says something. The lunatic gets the white house press secretary to try and convince people afterwards that his very serious comment was only a joke.
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That's the difference between a president and a lunatic. The president confirms he is joking as he says something.
No, the difference is the media would leave out the part about "joking". Then the entire context of a car event would be dropped and the media would report "Biden threatens to murder reporter during press conference over Israel attack on peaceful Hamas protesters". Over the next few hours every major news outlet would publish the story using the exact same wording.
Re:I'm only teasing. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is question of partisan allegiances.
Not in the least. Some of us actually can observe repeated behaviors and draw informed conclusions from them.
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It said the money would be spent mainly on cross-border projects between Israel and the West Bank and Gaza
Missiles are certainly cross-border...
If it's okay to promote beans... (Score:2)
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I am fine with the president doing a soft plug for Ford lol.
Well, Ford was a moderate Republican, so this was all in the name of bipartisanship.
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I am fine with the president doing a soft plug for Ford lol.
Seems ok.
Cheaper than the last time they needed a helping hand from the government. [google.com]
Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Funny)
The vast majority of pickup truck owners are urban cowboys.
Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people can't afford Ferraris or Lexuses. Does it make these brands unviable?
Most gas cars can't tow a boat. Lots of people do take lots of breaks in their long distance driving. 66% of Americans can charge their cars overnight. They exist in sufficient numbers to make a few electric cars and trucks viable.
But every EV story gets people "I won't buy it unless it goes 800 miles in a single charge towing a 20 feet boat and recharge in 3 minutes".
Would they stand outside a coffee shop and tell every patron there what Starbucks should to for them to switch from tea to coffee?
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Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Insightful)
For some reason people with most unusual use cases seem to think, the way they use their vehicle is how vast majority of vehicle users.
So like how Linux desktop users thinks everyone uses their computers the same way? :)
Disclaimer: I am a Linux desktop user.
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But every EV story gets people "I won't buy it unless it goes 800 miles in a single charge towing a 20 feet boat and recharge in 3 minutes".
Personally I want an EV that gets at least 200 miles in a single charge, recharges in 20 minutes, can do 0 to 60 in 6 seconds depending on how much the car is carrying, has plastic armor on all six sides (don't forget underneath!), and sports linked forward MGs (hits on 7 on 2d6) firing HD ammo (1d +1 damage) backed by a hi res weapons computer (+2 to hit).
Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Insightful)
You understand that electric motors have massive amounts of torque across their entire rpm range, right? Electric trucks are absolutely perfect for farm work, towing and construction, most of which is relatively short range.
Re: Seems legit (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes and no...
They would be a good choice for *some* farms, but not for others.
Some farmers will need to operate their equipment for many hours continuously, this is much easier to do with a liquid fuel. Many farms are very large giving significant travel time (especially at tractor speeds and having to open/close field gates etc) between the most remote fields and the farm buildings where electricity is likely to be available. A gasoline powered tractor can take extra cans of fuel to the work area and store it nearby to facilitate all day operation, carrying extra batteries is more difficult and driving back to the farm building to charge could result in a significant loss of productivity.
On the other hand if the farmer is working near the farm buildings and the tractor can charge rapidly enough, he could charge it while he has lunch etc.
Some very remote farms might not have electricity available at all and rely upon generators, operating a diesel generator to charge an electric tractor is not going to be very efficient.
Also the up front cost of an electric tractor and/or infrastructure to support sufficiently fast charging of it might not be viable vs the cost of retaining and fuelling existing equipment, especially when you consider that in many countries agricultural use of fuel is not taxed or taxed at a much lower rate than road use.
Migration of farm equipment to electric vehicles is likely to take a long time as existing equipment is gradually replaced and the factors which significantly favor gasoline change.
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You say "equipment", but you were quoting somebody saying electric trucks are perfect.
A Farmer doesn't have to electrify everything, much less all at the same time. So it's perfectly possible for a farmer to pull up to a diesel tractor to fill it up with a tank mounted in the bed of an electric truck.
Now, I will assert that at this time a hybrid would make more sense - the DoD, for example, has tried very hard to make as many of its vehicles use the same fuel, because having to ship gasoline, diesel, Jet f
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Do you think Joe Biden is hauling cement bags to the construction sight?
No, but I'm pretty sure he knows how to spell "site".
Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Interesting)
Most people who actually use the truck for work, usually don't drive it long distance. Its their work truck, that comes home every night and stay parked close to a 240 V outlet...
You will find actual workers switching to electric trucks in vast numbers very quickly. Five times cheaper to run per mile, can run electric appliances in enclosed spaces in the middle of the farm far from outlets....
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You will find actual workers switching to electric trucks in vast numbers very quickly. Five times cheaper to run per mile, can run electric appliances in enclosed spaces in the middle of the farm far from outlets....
You will find most of these people already have generators. If the electric truck is better than a generator then people will switch, assuming it is functional as a truck also.
Re: Seems legit (Score:5, Informative)
The fuel cost to run a typical portable generator used by a general contractor is about $0.70 per kWh. This does NOT include amortization of the generator cost.
The Tesla supercharger cost to 'recharge' 1 kWh is about $0.30, and with 20% loss, that means your cost per kWh is in the $0.36 ballpark.
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If your alternative generator (ie the battery in your truck) needs periodic recharging it's just not the same. You could carry a generator for that though. Leave it running all the time to keep the truck topped up...
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And why would it have a 20% loss?
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Diesel electric locomotives of 1950s were half as expensive to run compared to steam locomotives. Railroads ditched steam for diesel in just 1
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Generator cant run in enclosed spaces. Emits toxic fumes. Noisy. You might find people ditching the generator for a battery in diesel truck once the battery price falls below a threshold.
Hybrids first (Score:3)
Personally, I think that they'd go hybrid first. Disclaimer: I'm both a professional and not. As in I got paid salary for figuring out generator stuff, but it wasn't my main job or anything while in the Military.
Okay, there's like 3 levels of generator: Emergency, Standby, and Prime. There's various design variations between the three, but the main difference is how often and how long you expect to run them. An emergency generator you expect to run maybe a week a year. As such, they're built to be ch
Re: Seems legit (Score:4, Informative)
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You're quoting cases where an electric truck would work, but there are MANY situations where an electric truck will not work for people.
People who need to operate electrical equipment far from a source of power generally already have generators. People who have such requirements are generally not operating them indoors, as indoor locations usually already have electrical power in developed countries. There are people operating tools out in fields, or at construction sites where power is not yet installed et
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I just had that with my (smaller) EV. Power went out for 12 hours, and the battery allowed running the fridge and freezer through an inverter. And this was all ad-hoc stuff.
Once "vehicle-to-home" becomes standard, your car will also be your backup generator.
(You can also do the same thing with the truck of course, as long as the 12V connectors gives enough juice).
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but hey an ad for ford is better than giving that money to help some kids or homeless people
Well let's be honest. There's like maybe three or four politicians that would want to give money to help some kids/homeless people and those aren't in any kind of position of power nor is there some massive populous shift in attitude that's going to make those people in power.
Now all that said, we should still be striving to get those kind of people in power. But, I mean shoot, corporations owning our country didn't happen overnight, ain't getting fix overnight either. So in short, totally agree with you
How far can it tow a heavy 5th wheel before dead (Score:3, Informative)
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Ah yes the I need to tow a yacht 1000 miles every weekend argument.
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A yacht, no, but anything that's not a small fishing skiff/outboard motor boat will drain the batteries found in a consumer vehicle pretty damn quick. Especially if the route you go through contains any hills or significant amounts of stop signs or traffic lights. So if you tow a boat you need a vehicle that can handle it.
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If it has hills, it regenerates a lot of power downhill again.
will drain the batteries found in a consumer vehicle pretty damn quick.
Not more than a gasoline car will drain its gas. Seriously: what a stupid argument.
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Yes gas cars use more gas going uphill, obviously, but they have way more gas than EVs have battery. Higher drag and rolling resistance absolutely murders EV range. Check out the math here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Hill and stopping are not significant issues for EVs, because of regen. There's a range penalty but it's not a big one. The four things that affect range: cold weather, windy weather, accelerating hard, driving fast.
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Yepp, the hobby yachters that rather tow a yacht around than sailing it :P
Amuses me all the time if I see such a comment, lol.
Re:How far can it tow a heavy 5th wheel before dea (Score:4, Insightful)
Hauling a trailer doesn't necessarily mean pulling an obscene amount of weight. Farming: maybe. I've known some farmers who will use their 1 ton pickups to pull grain trailers (that's how crazy powerful modern diesels are). Others just use a tractor and they never haul anything heavy in their pickups. It all depends on how their farms are laid out, whether they tend to fields that are disconnected from the main farm, etc. Landscaping: it also depends. For moving lawnmowers and other equipment around they often use little wimpy Izuzu NPRs. For moving mulch, you need something more substantial.
Unless your business is so small that you are limited to one truck, it's likely you'll have several vehicles to perform different tasks. This F-150 would take the place of. . .F-150s. Farmers use F-150s as daily drivers, not to haul trailers full of cattle.
"Tradesmen with real jobs." I mean, really? This is /. Save the machismo for somewhere where people will actually buy into it. I've had a jobs that required a big ass truck. I've had jobs that required "tradesmen" skills. I'm handy with a wrench. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who got by without having to do any of that shit and I certainly don't laugh at them. I'm just as ignorant about all sorts of other things.
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Re:How far can it tow a heavy 5th wheel before dea (Score:5, Informative)
F150s don't have fifth wheel tow setups. That's for heavier duty trucks.
I talked to a guy with a Model Y with a decent size trailer behind it so I asked him about the battery range. He said they get about half range towing their load.
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What's the F-150's Fifth-Wheel Towing Capacity?
A fifth-wheel attachment in a half-ton truck is uncommon, but the F-150 offers towing capabilities with the attachment point that's typically reserved for heavy-duty trucks, and can tow up to 14,000 pounds configured for fifth-wheel towing.
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and can tow up to 14,000 pounds configured for fifth-wheel towing.
That is the problem with your american units. They are so impractical that one can not even judge if you put by accident an extra zero or not. The fact that you used a comma as separator indicates: no extra zero.
So: 14,000 pounds, that is roughly 13,000 german pounds (which is half a kg) which translates to 6.5 tons. You want to tell me in the USA it is allowed that a truck that barely weights two tons can tow a 6.5 tons trailer? Sorry, does
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Re:How far can it tow a heavy 5th wheel before dea (Score:5, Informative)
It's an F-150, not an F-250. I've taken some fairly heavy loads in my F-150 (I beefed up the suspension a bit) but when I have I can literally watch the fuel gauge creep down as I drive. If you want to haul heavy shit like that you need diesel, and even then it will kill your miles per gallon. Heavy shit always takes more energy to move than light shit. I think it has something to do with physics.
If they go to bigger trucks (3/4 ton+ and semis) I wouldn't be surprised if, as your post suggests, they go to fuel cells. Most of the time I haul fairly light stuff in my truck that's just too big for a car. That's what most 1/2 ton pickup owners do. This F-150 should be perfect for that. It would be great to see hydrogen distribution so that we could start using fuel cells, though.
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Could be the spark (Score:3)
Sure, there is the model Y, and the so far vaporware Cybertruck, and other niche things like Rivian, but none of those are going to convince people to buy electric like the everyday icon that is the F-150 - millions of people already own and love them, so if they do it right, and it is not too much more expensive than the already pretty expensive trucks on the road, it could be a game changer
I have nothing against BEVs, they are not my thing but if people actually like and buy these than that is good for Ford, good for consumers, and presumably good for the environment.
I wish them luck. Will be interesting to see the uptake over the next few years.
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The Cybertruck is not vaporware. It's just not out yet. The term "vaporware" is for things that will never exist, such as my kickstarter campaign for my perpetual motion machine. Rivian is going big with Amazon delivery vehicles, and should have real trucks out soon (some were sighted working the Blue Origin launch). Both look like serious trucks, and we'll just have to see what volume they can produce and sell. I'm doubting either will prove to be niche products.
My question for Ford is just how many o
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My question for Ford is just how many of these do they plan to make? Is this just a token production run to try to make people think twice before buying one of the above alternatives, or are they making hundreds of thousands a year?
I'd expect how many people actually want one very much informs the answers to your questions. I don't expect them to sell them at a loss though, so they won't likely be tokens of anything.
This sucker's quick! (Score:2)
"This sucker's quick!" he exclaimed, adding that he'd buy one. Pricing from another source:
Being an electric truck, it’ll be costlier than its conventional gasoline variants. The top-end variant of the conventional F-150 comes with a price tag of $70,825. On the other hand, its closest rivals Rivian R1T and GMC Hummer EV have a starting price tag of $67,500 and $79,995 respectively for their base variants.
I'm not assuming to know the disposable income of Joe Biden, but, no way-no how, am I paying $65-70k for a vehicle that is unlikely to generate any return on investment. Do you what depreciates faster than a new car?
Pretty much just fireworks and cryptocurrency.
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But lots of people are still willing to pay for nice toys. I hope return on investment is not the only joy in your life.
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In that price range, you'd be better off with a Ford Raptor.
But maybe the price of the electric car will come down.
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The price of the electric vehicle will almost certainly come down, on the order of the likelihood against any dramatic improvement to the 150ish year old internal combustion engine.
Does being a sharp cookie punish intrusive sites that catalog our visits to them?
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on the order of the likelihood against any dramatic improvement to the 150ish year old internal combustion engine.
There have been some really dramatic improvements to the internal combustion engine over the past 20 years or so. A low end 2020 Mustang will go 0-60 as fast as a 1995 Corvette.
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on the order of the likelihood against any dramatic improvement to the 150ish year old internal combustion engine.
There have been some really dramatic improvements to the internal combustion engine over the past 20 years or so. A low end 2020 Mustang will go 0-60 as fast as a 1995 Corvette.
I grew up with cast iron OHV small block V8s, with carburetors even when I was very young. Now in middle age my regular car has an all alloy DOHC 4 valve twin scroll turbocharged, intercooled, direct injected inline six, with variable valve timing and variable intake lift. It is a pretty dramatic technological improvement in a few decades time.
Sure, electric motors are simple and efficient, but they have no soul.
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Sure, electric motors are simple and efficient, but they have no soul.
This may be true of electric, but it's doubly true of ICE cars without a manual clutch and transmission.
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Hard to extrapolate what they are going to price from conventional. That said, the current gamut of F150 pricing:
-Entry regular cab: $29k
-Entry 'super' crew cab: $38k
-Platinum: $60k
The base electric mach-e is $16k higher than the base mustang that it purportedly is supposed to be in the ballpark of in the product line up. So if they are consistent, then it might be in the $45k to $54k range and also qualify for a tax credit of $7500, effectively bringing it to the 37-47k range.
We will see tomorrow, but it'
Re: This sucker's quick! (Score:2)
It's $70K
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Wow the first generation of something is expensive, who would have thought?
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Do you what depreciates faster than a new car?
Two new cars?
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This article says the average new car purchase price in 2020 was 40k.
I bought an F150, large cab, low/medium trim for 38k a few years ago.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-new-car-price-2020 [cnet.com]
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The average F-150 sale prices was $47k three years ago, so it's probably over $50k by now. People are spending ridiculous amounts of money on trucks.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/... [autoweek.com]
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I'm not assuming to know the disposable income of Joe Biden, but, no way-no how, am I paying $65-70k for a vehicle that is unlikely to generate any return on investment. Do you what depreciates faster than a new car?
He just released his taxes, it's like $600k so they can definitely afford a new truck every few months. As I said in another post, the average F150 price is around $50k so it's not too much more expsnive, but it's still mind boggling that people spend this much on trucks.
Not news (Score:2, Informative)
POTUS does product plug. News at 11.
I understand... (Score:2)
I understand the vanity plate on the F-150 Lightning Biden drove said "BIG GUY"
Has Ford announced when Hunter Biden will be joining Ford's Board of Directors?
LOL
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But Benghazi....
But her emails...
But his laptop...
Obligatory Onion (Score:4, Funny)
A reporter asked how quick it was, and Biden said it did 0-60 mph in 4.3 or 4.4 seconds ... The president then did a hard launch from a stop right in front of the press pool, accelerating to 80 mph.
This reminds me of Joe Biden's Trans Am. [theonion.com]
Re:Pickup ? (Score:4, Insightful)
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WHY ? Why would anyone want to drive a big "truck" thats 99% of the time carrying nothing. Big means harder to park, payin the arse to move around etc. For the same money or a bit more y9ou could actually get a far nicer european car.
Lots of utility for hauling stuff like home reno and yard materials and the kids sports equipment, lots of interior space for the family and as luxurious as any car, lots of ground clearance in the snow (not that that matters most of the time in the city), and a high seating position that gives much better visibility than a car.
Sure most of the people in new F-150s could afford a 5-series or an E-class instead. I suspect, indeed I know, most of them would be like, meh.
Re:Pickup ? (Score:4, Interesting)
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I agree OEM would be useful for light duty hitches, you could fair the hitch in maybe with a plastic cover like the roof anchors and tow hooks so it's out of sight when you are not using it. To be fair an equalizer hitch on the back of your 7 series is going to look like
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Depends how often you actually do any of those things.
In the last 10 years i've had the need to move large goods maybe 3-4 times, for which i was able to rent or borrow an appropriate vehicle.
Many people live in areas where snow is either rare or nonexistent.
Re:Pickup ? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly the opposite of what Biden is trying to do here. He is not plugging for Ford . . . he is plugging for America:
"Hey, look at all this great tech that American companies can create! Buy American . . . not European!"
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Tesla is an Apple. Never mind the apples to apples comparison. It doesn't matter if my Dell is cheaper and better than your Apple. You have an Apple. I have a "Tesla".
Apple is a religion. Tesla is a religion. It's about the fans.
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Well the cybertruck isn't real so you can't do an apples-to-apples comparison.
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Can we buy a cybertruck next week? It there a dealer nearby where I can order one? Will it have a touchscreen? Because dashboards suck. Any vehicle I buy needs to be a glorified cellphone where they will push updates devery week or so. From silicon valley where the bros designed it.
Re:Pickup ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not knowing about this specific one, but it's almost certain it'll have all-around cameras and thus fine maneuvering will be greatly aided and not a huge problem. While underway, the size is generally no big deal as the roads are pretty generously sized in most places, and you also have all sorts of things like adaptive cruise control and lane keeping (given the Mach-E and 'BlueCruise', it's a given that the F-150 will have Tesla level driver assist technology.
Note that a lot of these pickups sold have cabins that are pretty luxurious.
The generally unmitigated drawback of 'pickup as a daily driver' is their inefficiency, which will have to see how that plays out in the electric drivetrain.
Meanwhile, on the occasion I *do* go get some lumber, a big piece of furniture, or tow something around, it's nice for my daily driver to actually be able to do that without me having to go to the trouble of renting something else or, even worse, owning a different car just for those occasions.
The F-150 would be competing against relatively few competitors, Rivian, Tesla, and Ford are pretty much going to be the only game in town for a while.
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WHY ?
Why would anyone want to drive a big "truck" thats 99% of the time carrying nothing. Big means harder to park, payin the arse to move around etc.
For the same money or a bit more y9ou could actually get a far nicer european car.
I haul stuff in my truck and 99% of the time I drive my far nicer European car. It's not always and either/or situation.
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Although long way beofre... (Score:2)
e trucks are ready for long off-road trips some of us need trucks to enjoy things in life like going off roading like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: Pickup ? (Score:2)
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Well the big dickers aren't doing that much better [wikipedia.org].
Re: There's a reason that trucks are not yet elect (Score:4, Insightful)
The F-150 Lightning costs $70,000 - this is a cruiser, not a working pick-up
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A F150 is a pickup, it's meant for hauling, it's a work pickup for most people.
If most people are using their pickups for work, they're doing an outstanding job of hiding any evidence of that.
Since the universe is composed mostly of invisible dark matter, maybe that's what all these people are hauling?
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Hint: "most people" live in the city.
Try getting out of the boondocks, and you'll see all the shiny pickup trucks with empty scratch-free beds.
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The President/VP usually isn't allowed to drive - I wonder when the last time he was actually behind the wheel was?
At least he kept the body count down!
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Since Biden's not making any decisions, it doesn't matter if he manages to hurt himself.
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More like President rides. US presidents dont drive due to safety. So much for that bs story
Are you suggesting the videos are deepfakes? I think if the president really wants to drive he can pull rank.
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Yeah, that video of him actually doing it, must be fake...Doh!
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Biden seems to be into cars. I remember watching a an episode of "Jay Leno's Garage", back when Biden was Vice President - it featured Biden's 1967 Corvette.
Fun side note - Colin Powell has a 2015 Corvette, and he shows up towards the end of the bit. At one point I recall Biden talking about how it was originally a wedding gift from his father, and later how his sons restored the engine. Then Powell mentioned his car was also a gift from his kids... or so he thought, until the bill showed up a couple days l