What Would You Pay For Autonomous Driving? Volkswagen Hopes $8.50 Per Hour (arstechnica.com) 241
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The future of driving may cost you $8.50 per hour if Volkswagen follows through on its boardroom musings. The German automaker is considering charging an hourly fee for access to autonomous driving features once those features are ready. The company is also exploring a range of subscription features for its electric vehicles, including "range or performance" increases that can be purchased on an hourly or daily basis, said Thomas Ulbrich, a Volkswagen board member, to the German newspaper Die Welt. Ulbrich said the first subscription features will appear in the second quarter of 2022 in vehicles based on Volkswagen's MEB platform, which underpins the company's new ID.3 compact car and ID.4 crossover.
The executive said that Volkswagen will also offer video games in cars, similar to Tesla's arcade. "In the charging breaks, even if they only last 15 minutes, we want to offer customers something," Ulbrich said. He said the automaker wouldn't be developing the games themselves, and it's not clear whether they'll come preinstalled or be available for purchase through an app store. Volkswagen's real moneymaker might be autonomous driving, though. "In autonomous driving, we can imagine that we switch it on by the hour. We assume a price of around seven euros ($8.50) per hour. So if you don't want to drive yourself for three hours, you can do it for 21 euros," said Klaus Zellmer, chief sales officer of the Volkswagen brand. In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than "a car with a five-digit surcharge." That's not to say Volkswagen isn't hoping to make serious money off the subscriptions. In total, Zellmer said he anticipates the subscriptions will eventually make the company hundreds of millions of euros in additional revenue.
The executive said that Volkswagen will also offer video games in cars, similar to Tesla's arcade. "In the charging breaks, even if they only last 15 minutes, we want to offer customers something," Ulbrich said. He said the automaker wouldn't be developing the games themselves, and it's not clear whether they'll come preinstalled or be available for purchase through an app store. Volkswagen's real moneymaker might be autonomous driving, though. "In autonomous driving, we can imagine that we switch it on by the hour. We assume a price of around seven euros ($8.50) per hour. So if you don't want to drive yourself for three hours, you can do it for 21 euros," said Klaus Zellmer, chief sales officer of the Volkswagen brand. In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than "a car with a five-digit surcharge." That's not to say Volkswagen isn't hoping to make serious money off the subscriptions. In total, Zellmer said he anticipates the subscriptions will eventually make the company hundreds of millions of euros in additional revenue.
nah (Score:5, Insightful)
I know times are changing, but unless they are giving me the care for that hourly fee, I'm not paying VW $by the hour$ to ride in my own car that I'm also paying insurance and loan etc on. I believe I'm in the majority on this.
Re:nah (Score:5, Insightful)
I already paid for the car. Which already has the sensors and cameras and computers.
This, actually, is the biggest thing I hate about Tesla's business model. "Oh, you actually want to USE the things you already paid for? That will be $10,000, please."
Re:nah (Score:4, Informative)
Re:nah (Score:5, Interesting)
So you can load a 3rd party software that will handle the same task?
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Yes, you can run CommaAI. But it's worse in most ways.
Re: nah (Score:3)
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At least they're totally upfront about it.
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My guess is this is a way to offer self-driving cars without a big upfront price premium. But since most people finance their car already, I think it's a dumb idea.
Self-driving cars probably will require some network service, but no way at $8/hr forever. $8/mo, maybe.
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this argument has already been settled. Hardware and software are a bundle of two products. There have been plenty of efforts to sue over this type of thing and the companies always win.
You may have purchased the hardware with the car but the software is separate. Also, this doesn't imply you can run your own alternative in an supported way. And because DOT is involved, you probably can't DIY it using fair use without getting that software load DOT approved.
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> If I buy an Intel Xeon Processor I'm not butt hurt that Intel didn't give me a free operating system
now do iPhone
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> I'm not paying VW $by the hour$ to ride in my own car that I'm also paying insurance and loan etc on. I believe I'm in the majority on this.
If you want to eat in the car it's another $2.50/hr.
Re:nah (Score:5, Funny)
But what if I want to...
What will that cost?
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They can go ahead and charge me $8.50 an hour, if I can charge them $200/day for equipment rental. After all, I OWN THE FUCKING CAR.
One more reason not to buy VW.
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I would definitely pay on an hourly basis instead of up front. A service like that where I only have to pay if I'm using it seems like a great deal to me. I've done plenty of road trips where the last few hours to my destination are a real slog, and I would definitely have paid $10 to be able to lay down in the back seat and eat for a while and stretch out without having to stop moving. I live in Canada, and if someone lives in a different major city and you don't want to fly, you're driving for hours and h
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When Apple decided to turn their laptops into a sealed box labeled "no upgradable parts inside", and sold a bazillion of them, how many other "car" manufacturers followed suit?
FTFY.
Re: nah (Score:4, Insightful)
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No one will agree to pay for it by the hour.
(Ignorance, circa 2005) "Of course I want a phone with a replaceable battery. No one will want a phone without one."
Let's see what happens when you're left with no choice in the matter.
Yes. History can easily repeat itself.
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Bingo. geekmux is just an anti-Apple zealot looking for any excuse to blame them for all the bad things in the world she doesn't like. Not being able to wrench on your car is nothing at all like being charged to use something you've already purchased.
I'm typing this on a Macbook, have turned a wrench on my own cars since high school and probably paid for at least one outright due to that.
And not being able to turn a wrench on your own car, turns into you paying more. Also known as you being charged. (Like the flavor of that shitty bill, really matters to your wallet.)
I am also a solid believer in the human ability to ASS-U-ME. Thanks for participating.
Re: nah (Score:3)
I believe you and I read different things into the article.
You seem to be thinking about renting an electric vehicle for $8.50/hour, and I agree that such is quite reasonable.
The article is describing a situation where you OWN the vehicle and pay for all upkeep and maintenance on it. Additionally, if you want autodrive capability, then you spend an additional $8.50 per hour on top of your existing expenses.
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John Deere does this, and they may be backing down on their "only our affiliated stores can fix our tractors" given a huge pushback from the tractor owners. The problem is that Apple customers don't push back hard enough, they just take what they are gien and say "thank you sir, may we have another?"
Thanks for incompletely reiterating my point. (Score:2)
The problem is that Apple customers don't push back hard enough, they just take what they are gien and say "thank you sir, may we have another? And then other companies followed suit and their customers did the same."
FTFY.
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The problem is that Apple customers don't push back hard enough, they just take what they are gien and say "thank you sir, may we have another? And then other companies followed suit and their customers did the same."
FTFY.
If you wanted a modern phone with a removable battery, think you would find one easily?
Now perhaps you understand why customers were forced to "do the same."
Duh.
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If you wanted a modern phone with a removable battery, think you would find one easily?
If you wanted a modern phone with a stereoscopic screen, think you'd find one easily?
If you wanted a modern phone with a an e-ink screen, think you'd find one easily?
If you wanted a modern phone with barcode scanner, think you'd find one easily?
If you wanted a modern phone with support for talking on ham radio frequencies, think you'd find one easily?
I think your problem here is you mistake noise on Slashdot as some sort of barometer for how the general public feels about the features they're willing to pay
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...you or you think a profit-seeking company just randomly colludes with other manufacturers just to piss you off.
Oh, did you ask for all those pre-installed apps they refuse to allow you to uninstall? Demand a phone so thin it easily bends? Decide to wrap it entirely in glass? Gotta love it when Greed dictates your build. Just think what the price tag would be if they didn't collude to offer all those "discounts".
Piss me off? No. I accurately perceive Greed to do what Greed does best; Put profit above all. Some of what you listed, are useful features. Some, far exceed what I would expect a phone to do, which
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Yeah, I guess you're right. It was stupid of me to assume a $100 factory battery, was worth it. Obviously buying a $700+ smartphone every other year, is the wiser financial choice.
/sarcasm
Name ten new features that consumers actually asked for in new smartphones. I'll give you twenty they didn't ask for that conveniently doubled the MSRP.
Greed, creates product now. You're just along for the ride, pleb.
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You can still replace the battery, or get someone to replace it for you. The batteries are still model specific and still expensive.
All that's changed is the process of swapping the battery. It now takes longer, carries greater risk of damage, requires tools and requires knowledge of how to disassemble and reassemble the phone. But since you don't do it very often, it's not terribly inconvenient to visit a phone shop and have someone do it for you.
Now it's no longer practical to carry several spare batterie
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Sales of the Mac computers amounted to 18.21 million units in Appleâ(TM)s 2018 fiscal year. The Mac sales peaked in 2015 at 20.59 million units; overall, unit shipments of Appleâ(TM)s personal computer have remained relatively stable in the last few years.
By comparison... roughly 200 million PC *laptops* are sold per year.
I'd say "and sold millions of them". I'd reserve "Bazillions" for PC sales.
Bazinga.
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When Apple decided to turn their laptops into a sealed box labeled "no upgradable parts inside", and sold a bazillion of them, how many other "car" manufacturers followed suit?
FTFY.
Google, has sold a bazillion Chromebooks.
Apple, hasn't sold shit by comparison. Not exactly a price point for the majority.
And a bazillion people shelling out a premium for a sealed box, doesn't exactly convey wisdom. This is the same society that now views a $700 price tag for a disposable smartphone, as a bargain.
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I don't think this is the same thing as apple & non-servicable hardware. It would be equivalent if Apple charged my $8.50/hour to use Siri.
I think people are perfectly happy with a pay per use model, or a buy up front model, or even some sort of a subscription fee on top of the up-front purchase. But an hourly fee to use something you purchased I think is too far and will be rejected by the market AND I'm certain other car companies will not follow leaving VW with an unsellable product.
I do agree wit
You don't own anything. (Score:5, Funny)
Cars with features disabled, hourly rates, locked-in maintenance; there are brothels that give you more for your money.
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You missed the slash-story on the internet connected chastity belt.
Re:You don't own anything. (Score:4, Interesting)
Subscription airbags.
(Already exists in the motorcycling world)
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I was never clear on what the first $400 gets you.
A paperweight?
So you don't own the car? and if something happens (Score:4, Insightful)
So you don't own the car? and if bad something happens? then Volkswagen may be very on the hook.
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Then it would be a cheap form of liability insurance easy to cancel and pick up. Especially considering how immature autonomous driving is.
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So you don't own the car? and if bad something happens? then Volkswagen may be very on the hook.
Do you really think your current car, costs you $8.50 an hour to operate?
Think a future EV will really cost the owner (NOT you) that much to maintain?
Stop assuming they don't want to be on that hook.
In the future (Score:5, Insightful)
"In the future, you won't own anything, and you'll be happy."
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Makes it hard for the bank to repossess my apartment.
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Klaus Schwab already repossessed his sense of humour.
If I Wanted To Pay A Fee (Score:5, Insightful)
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If I could pay by the minute, say 25 cents per minute, then I'd drop myself off at the entrance and tell it to park itself at the nearest free spot. If it's a time limited spot, the car should move itself every 2 hours or whatever. When I'm ready, I'll summon it to come pick me up at the entrance again.
Re:If I Wanted To Pay A Fee (Score:5, Interesting)
Give how expensive parking is and the fact that they keep letting developers not include any because "close to transit", I'll just have mine drive around the block while I step into the shop for the few minutes and when I'm done the car will just return to me.
Not good for the environment but if there are no parking spots or they cost more then the scant electricity the car will use driving around the block, it definitely sounds good to me.
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Those capitalist pigs! We should force developers to always build parking even where it isn't profitable for them, am I right, Ivan?
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Why start with parking? As long as we're forcing businesses to do unprofitable things, let's make every restaurant give away free food to everyone waiting in line at a certain time every day. And just like that, we've solved hunger! Brilliant!
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Even the short one? :-p
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What's a short fucking bus? 5 minutes or less?
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Morons BUYING not RENTING (Score:4, Interesting)
We really truly need laws that prevent people from using the word "BUY" if you are required to pay more money afterwards.
Just use "RENT" Yeah, it will turn off your customers. Guess what, they are just as turned off by hearing "pay x" after they have already bought.
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Pay for the antivirus/malware software. Rent the updates to maintain protection.
Re:Morons BUYING not RENTING (Score:4, Insightful)
Just use "RENT" Yeah, it will turn off your customers.
Speak a little louder.
The Netflix world who doesn't own DVDs might see you then.
The Spotify planet who doesn't own CDs might be able to hear you then.
If the concept of ownership was still valued, it wouldn't be dying a slow painful death.
Re:Morons BUYING not RENTING (Score:4, Insightful)
Speak a little louder.
The Netflix world who doesn't own DVDs might see you then.
The Spotify planet who doesn't own CDs might be able to hear you then.
If the concept of ownership was still valued, it wouldn't be dying a slow painful death.
Ownership is still valued. The thing is, who values ownership, and of what, has changed drastically. The elites value ownership highly - and one of the 'things' over which they covet ownership is - guess what? Us!
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Same goes for cars. I'd rather pay 8.50 an hour for something I'll likely only be using once in a while, rather than 10k up-front. At 8.50/hr, I'll get 1176 hours of driving for $10k. I drive less than an hour per day, and realistically only a fraction of that is going to be in sel
Re:Morons BUYING not RENTING (Score:4, Insightful)
While you're sitting here being completely dismissive of all of those things that are practically bothersome to you in the "own" category, someone else is targeting your Precious to turn into Rent-Ware.
Just remember that as you peddle this shortsighted bullshit.
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Might be worth it (Score:2)
Consider a point to point trip a car can do in a way that a train or plane could not.
Anything over 20 hours of driving, you might still want to take a plane for expediency. But under 20 hours, that is just $170 - less than most plane tickets, and at the other end you have a car, and get to just read or work while you are driven to your destination.
So I'd consider it, though I hope the eventual fee would be less.
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I'm not paying to rent my own car that I already paid to buy, license, insure, and maintain.
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How about they charge you by the hour to use the air conditioning? If you want to be comfortable that might be a pretty good deal.
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Not paying to rent, paying to drive (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not paying to rent my own car that I already paid to buy, license, insure, and maintain.
You aren't renting your own car though - you are simply paying $8.50 per hour for an AI driver so you can relax in the back. A pretty good deal I think, though eventually the Robotic Minimum Wage And Fairness Act may increase that amount and also not let you critique the AI.
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Then they'll rephrase the question as: Would you pay to rent a robot to drive your car for you?
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Then they'll rephrase the question as: Would you pay to rent a robot to drive your car for you?
Maybe, if it actually did the driving. The present situation when you must actually be in the drivers seat, ready to take over at any moment that the robot messes up is not woth $8.50 an hour.
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Re: Might be worth it (Score:2)
Uber way more expensive option (Score:2)
I'll just hire an Uber/Lyft/Cab/etc. and come out ahead.
Have you tried pricing an Uber for a 20 hour trip? Even favoring in the other costs you mentioned, I really doubt you can beat $8.50 an hour.
Not to mention for any trip at an hour or longer, you are very unlikely to find any driver willing to make that trip at all.
I know someone who paid Uber to go from a NY airport to their home just recently, not quite sure how far - but it was $237...
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Really depends how good the driving is. If it's something where I have to be at the wheel and take over control at a moment's notice then it's not worth it, but if I can take a nap then it could be valuable
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Seems like a perfect way to avoid a DUI. I can drive myself there and the car can drive me home. Makes sense assuming you can use it in blocks less than an hour at a time.
The reality is this is not a feature I want. And if I were to have an autonomous capable vehicle I'd rather just pay for the feature up front and not continuously.
There is a lot of incentive to find a work-around to their enablement. How much would you pay for a module you plug into an ODBII or USB connector that enables autonomous dri
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Anything over 20 hours of driving
Assuming it can even make the first few turns off your street. [theverge.com]
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Only if (Score:2)
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Only if this hourly fee includes everything. All repairs, all fuel (electric or gas), and full coverage on insurance.
Of course it will.
You act like the liability of the future would ever dream of letting you own one of these things. Kids can't even maintain a fucking smartphone.
The iphonisation of cars (Score:4)
Once you add up the cost of fuel, insurance, actually buying the poxy car in the first place, And that fact that autonomous driving still requires some level of monitoring from the driver.
It seems rather worthless compared to a taxi. You can be blind drunk getting into a taxi - but you cant do that on an autonomous car.
But more than that, the one thing I absolutely adore about my car in this day and age is that it just works. It's a machine to eats fuel and maintenance and once fed keeps going. I own it. It doesn't look for any subscriptions, it doesn't car about any connectivity issues and it won't get into a war with my phone when I try and bluetooth into it.
It is controlled by buttons that beep when I push them and I can work them by feel while driving.
The engine shit the bed and I put the engine from a similar car in it. Plug it in, wire it up and away it ran. It adjusted its own controllers to match the specific characteristics of the new engine in about five minutes of idling. I've shocks from Tein, and I've reprogrammed the ECU to work with ignition coils from a completely different manufactuer and to ignore the complete lack of a catalyst.
The Iphonisation of cars will be a disaster.
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Do I get a full refund if.... (Score:4, Insightful)
The car decides it can't handle the challenge? [theverge.com]
Multiple Models (Score:2)
It makes sense that they would want multiple pricing models for self driving features. Tesla has the "pay a ton for it up front" model, and keeps promising a monthly subscription fee model, but even that may be too expensive for many people. VW is considering an hourly model, which brings the price down where it may make sense on specific trips. I expect once cars can really drive themselves with no driver at all, we'll see most companies offering multiple models to pay for it, and over time the price wi
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Won't happen (Score:2)
If VW tried it, it will fail. All of the autonomous driving challenge is in the software, and that has a marginal cost of zero. Sure, you'll need a computer in your car, and some fancy sensors, but not enough value for people to wear hourly fees. Competition will kill this fast.
I hate subscription or variable cost (Score:2)
It wrecks havoc on your budget, I'd rather have sunk or one-time costs.
Service fees (Score:2)
There are valid service fees, like XM radio where they actually pay salaries for the radio hosts. (Not that I pay for it, Internet radio just works fine). And then there are notoriously greedy ones like BMW asking a yearly fee just to use your iPhone on their vehicles.
But this is a bit of a grey area in between. Yes, self driving service costs money. Yes they need to keep servers running, and maps up to date. (And those maps need to be extremely detailed). However those are fixed costs. It does not matter h
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Score:2)
"Autonomous" is "remote controlled" by humans (Score:5, Insightful)
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More than the US minimum wage. (Score:2)
People could send out their cars to earn more than they do.
Only for full self driving (Score:2)
Sigh. (Score:2)
Great, so this means that I can be high as a kite and blind drunk and don't need a driver's license and VW will take full responsibility when their self-driving car that I'm now paying an hourly service fee for in addition to ownership drives over a bunch of schoolchildren crossing the street and then ends up in a ditch, right? And VW will pay my medical costs, assume all liability, and refund my $0.05 for the last few seconds of the trip, right? How long until the thing plays advertisements every thirty se
Add another $2 and... (Score:2)
For $10.50/hr you could hire a personal driver. He'd probably clean your car and run some errands too.
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For $4 per hour, I can hire someone with cash under the table out in front of Home Depot. For $7.25 per hour, I can do it legally (in most states). It only costs $10.50 if you want someone who knows how to drive. :-D
Minimum wage (Score:3)
Extra features? (Score:2)
Need list of cars rated by disconnected-ness (Score:2)
Safety features (Score:2)
Would safety features (such as emergency collision avoidance) that involve the self-driving system rental-only?
Aside from that, rental self-driving might be economically worthwhile, if the system turns out to be very expensive to maintain, repair, or insure --which increasingly looks likely be to be the case.
$8.50 is OK (Score:2)
Just make it stop calling me Miss Daisy.
Providing Autonomous Driving vehicles (Score:2)
It'll be voice activated (Score:2)
It'll be voice activated, and as reliable as the emission control technology on their ICE models.
They're in partnership with Apple, and the voice-activated assistant will be named Viri.
I own my car. (Score:2)
I don't see the draw.
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This right here. This is why it SHOULD be made to be illegal before it gets out of hand. Go look for the video on the car that ran a dude over because they were showing off the auto-stop emergency mode... OOPS. It wasn't installed on that particular car!!! People are going to think/assume features (especially safety features) are installed when they're not, and people are going to die.