Some Google Workers Angered by 'Hypocritical' Remote Work Policies (cnet.com) 175
Slashdot reader nray shared this report from CNET:
In May, CEO Sundar Pichai unveiled plans for a "hybrid" work environment that would require most employees to work from their offices at least three days a week beginning in September. Under the new structure, 20% of the company would work remotely. Another 20% could work from new locations. People who relocated would get salary adjustments based on the local market. The bulk of Google would pick up where it left off, working from the office. Google makes up almost all of Alphabet, a holding company that has more than 135,000 full-time employees...
The rancor intensified last week, when Urs Hölzle, one of the company's longest-tenured and most senior executives, announced plans to work remotely from New Zealand, according to an email he sent to employees that was viewed by CNET. Hölzle's plans angered rank-and-file workers, who consider it special treatment for company leadership, while lower-level employees have had to wade through a drawn-out and uncertain application process... Hölzle, Google's senior vice president of technical infrastructure, is a revered figure at the company. He was one of Google's first 10 employees and is credited with building the tech giant's IT foundation of servers and networks. But for some Googlers, his relocation email, which was sent on June 29 and hasn't been previously reported, illustrated the inequities of the company's system for deciding remote work... Two Google employees said Hölzle's situation encapsulated the company's "hypocritical" policies. Both complained that the relocation represented a double standard in which different rules apply to executives in senior ranks. While his approval came last year, Google employees now undergoing the remote work application process have been told decisions won't come until August, at the earliest. Approval for Hölzle's move came before the procedure was instituted.
News of Hölzle's relocation especially stung because he has been particularly vocal against remote work, employees said. De Vesine, the resigning Googler, said Hölzle had a policy of not letting people work remotely unless they were assigned to an office and that he wouldn't consider remote work for people who hadn't reached a certain level of seniority...
It's unclear if Hölzle's salary will be adjusted to the local market, as required for other employees relocating to a new place. The Google spokesman declined to comment on his compensation.
"While some tech companies, like Reddit, have said they'll pay employees San Francisco or New York City salaries wherever they work, Google has taken a hard line on making pay adjustments..." CNET reports.
They also point out that for 20 yerars Google "has set the tone for office culture in Silicon Valley... The impact of Google's remote work policies could ripple far and wide..."
The rancor intensified last week, when Urs Hölzle, one of the company's longest-tenured and most senior executives, announced plans to work remotely from New Zealand, according to an email he sent to employees that was viewed by CNET. Hölzle's plans angered rank-and-file workers, who consider it special treatment for company leadership, while lower-level employees have had to wade through a drawn-out and uncertain application process... Hölzle, Google's senior vice president of technical infrastructure, is a revered figure at the company. He was one of Google's first 10 employees and is credited with building the tech giant's IT foundation of servers and networks. But for some Googlers, his relocation email, which was sent on June 29 and hasn't been previously reported, illustrated the inequities of the company's system for deciding remote work... Two Google employees said Hölzle's situation encapsulated the company's "hypocritical" policies. Both complained that the relocation represented a double standard in which different rules apply to executives in senior ranks. While his approval came last year, Google employees now undergoing the remote work application process have been told decisions won't come until August, at the earliest. Approval for Hölzle's move came before the procedure was instituted.
News of Hölzle's relocation especially stung because he has been particularly vocal against remote work, employees said. De Vesine, the resigning Googler, said Hölzle had a policy of not letting people work remotely unless they were assigned to an office and that he wouldn't consider remote work for people who hadn't reached a certain level of seniority...
It's unclear if Hölzle's salary will be adjusted to the local market, as required for other employees relocating to a new place. The Google spokesman declined to comment on his compensation.
"While some tech companies, like Reddit, have said they'll pay employees San Francisco or New York City salaries wherever they work, Google has taken a hard line on making pay adjustments..." CNET reports.
They also point out that for 20 yerars Google "has set the tone for office culture in Silicon Valley... The impact of Google's remote work policies could ripple far and wide..."
Lol at people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lol at people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Realize that you can cut a San Jose salary in *half* and still be very rich in Buffalo. Likely with a better quality of life, lower utilities, less commute, better food, etc etc etc. Plenty of dark OC-48 there. too.
Re: Lol at people... (Score:2)
Re: Lol at people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lots of my relatives that used to live in Buffalo, they all died of old age their kids fled to Florida . Imagine this, 5 months of a frozen wasteland and 5 months of a bug infested hell. How do you feel about shoveling wet, heavy snow all winter ? And wait till you get bit by a Deer Fly, those fuckers are relentless.
Re: Lol at people... (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as Googlers being peeved at this gentleman's ability to command where he wants to live whereas others may not... it is kind of tone deaf. I would be curious as to who he sent that email to. But, being one of the original 10 employees, I imagine he can afford the travel to get to wherever he may be needed in person. He also likely has considerable skill that Google will want to retain, and make accommodations for him as a part of his overall compensation. If you are paid millions and live in the Bay Area because you produce value and have unique insight, then you can also command millions in Cleveland. The market for your labor is not as competitive as for the rank-and-file. Not many people can say they managed the infrastructure for an organization as complex and innovative as Google's, so they will want to retain him. Im sure the folks at Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, or any of the other billion dollar cloud companies would be happy to hire him if Google didn't capitulate to his demands. Being mad that he gets to write his own check would be akin to Apple employees getting upset that Johnny Ive would have probably had the same benefits if he still worked at Apple. That is because they value his skill-set as highly productive and hard to acquire. That is life. We dont live in a communist society, so our companies are not run that way.
Re: Lol at people... (Score:5, Informative)
The point is not that he has leverage and uses it. The point is that he disdains the concept of allowing workers to work remotely, and is hard on those who want to do so, yet he remotes in from New Zealand.
We may not live in a communist society, but our companies are run that way. Being in "The Party" means you get to do what you want, while telling others they are not allowed to do what you do.
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The point is not that he has leverage and uses it. The point is that he disdains the concept of allowing workers to work remotely, and is hard on those who want to do so, yet he remotes in from New Zealand.
We may not live in a communist society, but our companies are run that way. Being in "The Party" means you get to do what you want, while telling others they are not allowed to do what you do.
When I worked at Disneyland they did not allow men to have facial hair, despite Walt Disney always having an iconic moustache. Oh well, the company still signed my paycheck and not the other way around.
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Being in a capitalist economy however gives those with decision making power the ability to decide. Their decisions may be shit, but they get that power.
Isn't this something that applies to just about anything? I really don't think it's an exclusive feature of capitalism.
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Lots of my relatives that used to live in Buffalo, they all died of old age their kids fled to Florida . Imagine this, 5 months of a frozen wasteland and 5 months of a bug infested hell. How do you feel about shoveling wet, heavy snow all winter ? And wait till you get bit by a Deer Fly, those fuckers are relentless.
Nothing like moving to Florida, where rather than winter trying to kill you, it's summer - and it's just different bugs trying to eat you. Alligators instead of bears. And Florida man for whatever is left.
Re:Lol at people... (Score:4, Funny)
... and still be very rich in Buffalo. Likely with a better quality of life, lower utilities, less commute, better food, etc etc etc. Plenty of dark OC-48 there. too.
The one drawback is the smell, though. You thought they smelled bad on the outside.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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The "high tax states" tend to be nicer places to live.
Except New Jersey. What a shithole.
As a New-Jerseyan, I agree. What a shithole. Everything you heard about New Jersey in Futurama is 100% true.
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The "high tax states" tend to be nicer places to live.
Except New Jersey. What a shithole.
As a New-Jerseyan, I agree. What a shithole. Everything you heard about New Jersey in Futurama is 100% true.
Depend on where in New Joisey you are. North, or "Which exit do you live at" country is pretty dismal. But the south is pretty nice. Beware though, if liberals make your blood boil, you won't like the south. We go to Cape May a few times a year, and enjoy the hell out of it.
NJ Map (Score:3)
The unofficial official map of New Jersey. Oblig.
https://imgur.com/Pwnf4 [imgur.com]
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Because high crime and urban blight are not very appealing.
Taxes pay for crime prevention and infrastructure. Sure, you could pay for that by building a gated community - but that would more than eat up the tax difference. Why not outsource that to the local government instead?
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Of all the places to choose as an example, why choose another high tax state? Yes things are cheaper, but taxes are highest in nation.
You need to move to a nice low tax state like Mississippi, where all of the citizens are prosperous. If then can just get those taxes to 0 - Nirvana will have been achieved.
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Note: corporations are not biological entities and thus have no organs, which means no heart.
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The points are that there not be a double standard (pay adjustment), plus Hölzle's words and actions don't match.
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So a SVP/founder and a janitor are not treated the same.
That is a real shocker.
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The point is the real scummery going on at Google. Google is really OK with YOU remote working, watch the fuck out, you soon wont have a remote chance of working with Google.
Google is doing selective remoting to thin the herd. Once the remotes and inhouse get used to the remotes being gone, they will be gone and no one will miss them.
Lots of corporations will start using remote work to get rid of poorly performing staff and the fussy gits, get some work out of them on the way out. First remote on wages, th
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Who knows, with Google they might run an AI to make it seem the "departed" is still on the payroll. In Germany during WW2 postcards where sent to those who hadn't been shipped off to the death camps, to reassure those who hadn't gone yet. At least at the beginning...
Remember kids, "Don't Do Evil".
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How does my place on this planet affect my work when what I do is essentially independent from my physical position?
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How does my place on this planet affect my work when what I do is essentially independent from my physical position?
Your location matters more than you think. Google certainly believes that people are more productive when they are physically co-located.
Historically, companies that tried to go full-remote have not done well. Communication breaks down. Coordination is difficult.
Better tech may have changed that, but it isn't clear if the change is enough.
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I find that it's the half-way house of partly remote that causes problems. If everyone is remote then communication is not a problem, everyone goes to whatever messaging system is in use as the primary channel.
It's when half the people are in the office that things break down.
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Historically, companies that tried to go full-remote have not done well. Communication breaks down. Coordination is difficult.
Got any support for your bold assertion? Studies [apollotechnical.com] say otherwise.
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How does my place on this planet affect my work when what I do is essentially independent from my physical position?
Are you good enough to be the one chosen for the job when competing against the other 7 Billion people on the planet?
If any part of your value resides in being local to the job, then part of your pay is for being local. There may be varying degrees of local with varying associated values.
I would assume that it is something to be negotiated as part of my contract. I would not just accept whatever terms are offered without review.
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There's at most 25 million programmers in the entire world. Not all of them are looking for a job. Not all of them speak English. Not all of them can program.
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Because he's a multi-millionaire, if not billionaire. That's why NZ will let him and let him stay as long as he likes.
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I'm sure you know the stories of Galileo or Copernicus and how well their heretical science was accepted by the authorities of that time. Well, the catholic church is no longer an authority on scientific matters. The problem is, the authority hasn't exactly gone where we would like it, it's just changed to a new, overreaching group who decide what is science or what needs to be silenced.
Re:Lol at people... (Score:5, Informative)
As a Kiwi, you should know that it costs $3M NZD to move there. [newzealandnow.govt.nz]
Then leave (Score:3, Insightful)
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"The impact of Google's remote work policies could ripple far and wide..."
Maybe they will. When the bosses are hypocritical d-bags you should quit. I did. Let's see how many Google employees are willing to put their giant salaries where their mouths are.
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Complaining that senior executives get VIP treatment shows how sheltered these employees really are.
If employees are doing that emass, then maybe it's not the employees with the distorted view of the world. VIP isn't the equivalent of "do whatever I want" any more than "the customer is always right".
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This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, don't negotiate. Don't ask for better conditions. Just quit and hope another company that knows nothing about you will magically treat you better.
And imagine being the manager. One day you walk into the office and half of your folks hands in their resignations. The better half. You ask them what's wrong, nobody wants to say anything. You offer raises, bonuses, vacation days, but they already have new jobs lined up. You throw up your hands, there's nothing to
It's a business, not kindergarten (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it interesting how the current generation of Google workers treats their work like children do kindergarten. Everything must be equal (since they conflate fair with equal) - if someone else has something everyone is entitled to it too.
As an employee you sell your services to your private employer. Your employer chose to buy your services instead of other people who applied just like you choose one smartphone brand over another. You don't expect Google to scream that it's unfair that people pay more for an iPhone than some Android phone they could have bought cheaper instead. Same goes for your work. Your employer is paying you for your service. If they want this service done at the office, that is what the job is. Someone else's job may be remote and even if they do the very same thing it is a different position. If it is not worth to you to provide the service the employer is willing to pay for, see if you can renegotiate to take the remote position instead of the office position, or find another job. If your company has a position to pay someone $1000/hr to lay on the beach while watching streaming videos, try to apply for it, but if you don't get it, it doesn't mean your job should suddenly pay $1000/hr and/or allow you to work on the beach.
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Google, among many other tech companies, is the leading the charge when it comes to social justice and fighting for equal opportunity, fair chances and all that jazz. They do this because it gives off a certain hip and bright image that PR drones love and are sure it will attract the bright young minds of the new Mindful generation.
Well, you reap what you sow. They attracted and raised a generation built on fairness and equal treatment, so don't be surprised that these very same people they attracted want t
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Companies often try to claim a progressive workplace to attract employees. Think of it like other perks - flextime, onsite daycare, generous vacation time, etc - it's designed so that the employer can offer a lower wage.
When a company claims to be progressive, yet s
Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hölzle's plans angered rank-and-file workers, who consider it special treatment for company leadership, while lower-level employees have had to wade through a drawn-out and uncertain application process.
Two Google employees said Hölzle's situation encapsulated the company's "hypocritical" policies. Both complained that the relocation represented a double standard in which different rules apply to executives in senior ranks.
Regular / rank-and-file employees are upset because they and (upper) management are treated differently? I imagine this will be hard for them to accept, but this is true everywhere (at work and in life) and the company they work for is really no different than any other.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes but here's the thing. We discussed this in the RMS threads about the role of a leader and how important what they do reflects on the organization at large. In Hölzle's case his negative attitude towards remote work on one hand while taking advantage of the system to do the opposite. People seem to forget the role of a leader isn't to exploit the system but to be a role model for how the system is suppose to run.
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In Hölzle's case his negative attitude towards remote work on one hand while taking advantage of the system to do the opposite.
Except the cost/benefit of remote work isn't the same for all people in all parts of a company. Groups and teams, especially those executing benefit greatly from co-location. Many others, e.g. a C-suite who happily locks himself away in an office behind a secretary, do not and are not impacted negatively and do not impact negatively doing remote work.
RMS is a great example because a similar concept is present here. Once you get to a certain leadership position your role tends to focus on strategy in a dicta
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I don't think anyone is arguing in good faith that it's supposed to be equal. It's the disconnect between what he says and what he does that has people angered, not the fact that he did it.
Hell, if he even announced that he has changed his mind on remote work and started to offer that perk to his employees then this tempest in a teacup would wane rapidly, but he didn't. He basically for years said "Remote work doesn't work" and then sent a tone-deaf email that said basically "I still believe remote work doe
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I think that there's one major difference here. I'm not a Googler, but I'm an emplyee who got to work at home through covid. I don't mind if my CEO is getting 10x times more than me, because I am happy with what I get. However, if they take my work-at-home, I'll feel like they took something away"from me. I'm not saying it is logical, I am just saying that I don't think this is about inequality, as much as it is about having something given and then taken away.
Too bad they aren't angered (Score:2)
Let them eat Google cake (Score:5, Insightful)
who consider it special treatment for company leadership, while lower-level employees have had to wade through a drawn-out and uncertain application process
Holy shit is anyone surprised by this? Seriously? I'm expecting this to happen more often and more blatantly. Serfs go to the office, important people work from their mansions. And the solution to this "problem" is to stop being a serf. I leave the path to that end up to the imagination of the reader. But the disparity of grunts v. self-righteous asshats is eternal, it's just a matter of how in your face it is based on how much the self-righteous fears the serfs actually following through with their threats. So all those Google folk who said they would leave, if you don't, they'll do more of this and make even more in your face. Just so you know your place.
It's unclear if Hölzle's salary will be adjusted to the local market, as required for other employees relocating to a new place.
Really? This is a question? Of course not. Why would anyone treat him like a commoner?
I mean fuck, I thought they were hiring smart people at Google. Clearly they are just idiotic chumps.
Hölzle is a hypocrite. (Score:2)
News of Hölzle's relocation especially stung because he has been particularly vocal against remote work, employees said. De Vesine, the resigning Googler, said Hölzle had a policy of not letting people work remotely unless they were assigned to an office and that he wouldn't consider remote work for people who hadn't reached a certain level of seniority...
I wonder if he has this hypocritical stance because he thinks employees are "inherently lazy", like Jeff Bezos does [businessinsider.com]?
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People generally think everyone is like they are...
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"Working or shirking" is a real topic in economics and sociology, mostly around the efficiency wage. It's possible Bezos is actually influenced by these ideas.
I don't know if I would say workers are inherently lazy, as that tends to be a moral judgement. I think it's more realistic to look at workers and suggest that not working and getting paid is a rational choice.
Employers have tended to motivate employees around salary but this doesn't address the oversight problem, where employers have to enforce the
Um is it really news (Score:5, Funny)
Get what you deserve (Score:5, Funny)
*Company does a ton of evil shit that you help with*
*Company does evil to you* you *shock!*
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*Company does evil to you* you *shock!*
There's nothing evil being done here. It would be truly shocking if Google treated all employees equally to executive members. Google is acting the same way Google always has even when it had its do no evil motto, with the exception that they now provide more flexibility to their employees. And just like every company has always throughout history this flexibility is applied differently depending on rank.
Moving to Switzerland (Score:2)
I'm looking forward to having my salary adjusted to the local market.
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Hahaha! That is a good point. I am moving to the Seychelles.
I COMPLETELY FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC HERE (Score:5, Interesting)
If a job in Mountain View needs to be done, it should be paid mountain view wages. It shouldn't matter where someone lives as long as their performance is up to par. If I do work in Mountain View that's on par with my coworkers, but live in Gary Indiana because I want to own some acres, what business is it of my employer/manager as long as I can still be managed?
It's really disheartening to see this. We have an opportunity to bring cash flow to depressed areas of the country. We have the opportunity to give people a slice of the American dream but instead we're forcing them to live in San Jose (where I live BTW) where unless you're willing to wake up at 5:30am like I do every morning to be at work by 6:45ish, you're gonna spend 2 hours a day on the freeway just to drive 18 miles to Palo Alto.
People are fed up with this, which is WHY THEY WANT TO MOVE. San Jose has gone the way of SF with piss and shit on the streets, and the only way to escape that within San Jose is to live in gated McMansions that even if your household made a combined $250k@year, you're not gonna afford that. Even if you wanted to afford that, you're going to get beat out by cash offers. SJPD barely responds to crime anymore. God forbid you try to defend your house and home, you should see the threads on nextdoor chewing people up for saying they don't want this guy who lives in an RV in our neighborhood because he steals.
I'm comfortable. Bought my house in 2000. I can weather this. Despite being able to weather this, I want out. I want to cash out my house, buy a house cash someplace else. Maybe not Gary Indianna, but certainly Oregon coast looks great.
What a lot of people don't understand about this area is even if you make $ix figures, you're still gonna lose out in so many ways. My wife and I make about $200k@year, majority of that goes towards running the household. Food, Gas, kids, taxes. Outside of our 401k and home equity, we don't have a nest egg. Most people in the valley are in the same situation, and because of our salaries don't qualify for the Biden tax credits, or any of the other economic stimulus.
I'm getting rantish here, but I just hate this. I just don't understand this at all.
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Remote work will probably just wind up as a race to the bottom, though.
Re:I COMPLETELY FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC HERE (Score:5, Insightful)
If a job in Mountain View needs to be done, it should be paid mountain view wages.
why? that view would just ensure companies setup small offices in the cheapest location and have all remote work done through that. The reality is when you work in an office the pay is based on the local market, when you open up to remote work you are now competing with the entire countries job market, in some cases the overseas market too. Hence the wages should and will reflect the larger market not your insulated local market,
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Don't you think people should be paid based upon their skills rather than where they live for jobs that can be done anywhere in the world?
The idea of paying people more because of where they live or reducing their wages because they move stinks if that job doesn't require some kind of physical work.
Pre-emptively, I'd be happy for people in developing countries to be paid what people in 1st world countries are paid when they are doing the same work. People being paid less can't boost the economy, millions of
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Don't you think people should be paid based upon their skills rather than where they live for jobs that can be done anywhere in the world?
Sure. Everyone should be paid the market price for their skills.
If your job can be done remotely, the market price will be a lot less.
If you believe this is wrong, feel free to start a company and pay workers in Mumbai what they would earn in Mountain View. Come back and let us know how it goes.
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Don't you think people should be paid based upon their skills rather than where they live for jobs that can be done anywhere in the world?
yes, which is EXACTLY what happens when you work remotely, instead of being paid a premium because of location you lose that premium and get paid purely on your skill, what the OP objects to is losing the premium for location but the reality is you can't have it both ways.
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Maybe [slashdot.org]. Or maybe the worst ones would make 20k, typical ones would make 50k, and the best ones would make $500k.
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If a job in Mountain View needs to be done, it should be paid mountain view wages.
why? that view would just ensure companies setup small offices in the cheapest location and have all remote work done through that. The reality is when you work in an office the pay is based on the local market, when you open up to remote work you are now competing with the entire countries job market, in some cases the overseas market too. Hence the wages should and will reflect the larger market not your insulated local market,
Subject to a myriad of factors.
Just had the classic case today ... called tech support at the company that does the SATs. At the end of their clunky opaque online registration process, our daughter's testing location was shown as the name of one high school but the address of a completely different high school, in a different town. WTF? So I call the number, and get some guy who is clearly in India. Not only can't he help ("you need to call the testing location and ask them" - um, hello, which one then?),
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what business is it of my employer/manager as long as I can still be managed?
Absolutely none you wonderful but disproportionately expensive worker. Oh what did I just say? Well we just realised your job doesn't need to be in mountain view and we can manage you from anywhere. We happen to notice that you are now competing with a labour pool from all over the world and I'm sure we'll find a qualified and capable person to work at half of your salary.
But we're not firing you, oh no, we're giving you the opportunity to sign a new contract reflecting the current labour market conditions
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Beyond the effects of any applicable regulations, it is the Market that dictates what people will be paid. If a business will hire you even though you live in Gary Indiana, it means that you now compete with not just the similarly-qualified people in the Bay area, but also every other qualified person nationwide who is living in, or moving to, places like Gary. Those other people might be thrilled to do your job for half the pay. Remote work increases the supply of workers for your job, driving down your
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I feel your pain. It's a high-cost, high-salary environment. You see plenty of houses with deferred maintenance issues - paint pealing, poor landscaping, yet you know the owners are pulling in $200K plus. Basically, if you didn't get paid a lot, would you still live here?
To answer your question though, it is very logical what Google is doing because they are an established company with a large number of Silicon Valley employees. A simple proof: male employee earns $250K and moves from San Jose to Portland,
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I don't think you know how timezones work.
Get Over It (Score:2, Insightful)
If you think that it's unfair that a senior exec gets more privilege than you, then you're an idiot. Move up the ranks, and earn your own privileges.
Re: Get Over It (Score:5, Informative)
No, pay attention: it is hypocritical for an executive to slag remote work and then move halfway around the world to do his work. If important work can't be done remotely either his work isn't important or he's a liar. Either way, not great leadership.
If he were a known champion of remote work that merely got to flex his seniority, this would get a lot less press.
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No, pay attention: it is hypocritical for an executive to slag remote work and then move halfway around the world to do his work. If important work can't be done remotely either his work isn't important or he's a liar. Either way, not great leadership.
If he were a known champion of remote work that merely got to flex his seniority, this would get a lot less press.
We're here arguing about the hypocritical actions of one of the first 10 Google employees. Why the hell this human hasn't retired and moved to his own country by now, is the real news.
Walking around with Fuck You money in the rat race? I'd be about two bad conversations and a lukewarm coffee away from exercising my Fuck You options.
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No, pay attention: it is hypocritical for an executive to slag remote work and then move halfway around the world to do his work.
Only if you don't understand that remote work does not affect all people and all parts of a business equally. It doesn't. There's nothing hypocritical about it. Executives at their level do not depend on 1-on-1 team interaction to efficiently get their work done, quite unlike many teams executing actual production work.
There's nothing hypocritical if you understand the underlying economics at play. Not all work is equal. This isn't "no child left behind" kindergarten.
Work AND hire outside the valley! (Score:2)
It rubs the lotion on its skin (Score:2)
Or else it gets replaced by people with the exact same skill set who studied the exact same books in college, and can live very comfortably on $500 a month.
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No one lives comfortably on $500 a month unless you are a 20something with a couple of roommates. Why even comment with that crap. I lived in St. Louis for years and $500 is rent on an apt. in the southside and would leave you with nothing after rent was paid.
I guess you are alluding to someone in India making $500 USD and even then it's not realistic. India is getting expensive in the areas that actually have qualified people.
You're just trolling and not even doing it that well.
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You are missing the point. Once you are remote, you are competing with everyone in the world, not just everyone in America. I am not sure this is true but this is what the OP is suggesting.
Seething cauldron of rage (Score:4, Informative)
Is it just me or does it seem like Google is just a seething cauldron of rage nowadays? Seems like a lot of googlers are always angry about something.
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Why do the reporters need to write stories about angry googlers? They are angry because their company is helping china. They are angry because their country is helping the pentagon. They are angry because their company fired the head of inclusiveness. They are angry because they have to go back to the office but big muckity mucks don't. Are you saying that the media are creating a false impression due to some kind of mandate? Or just that they all pile on because it seems like a narrative that sells newspap
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If Google was really that bad, they would have trouble finding people to work there. But this is not the case.
Also consider stories about other companies. How does J.P. Morgan compare?
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Is it just me or does it seem like Google is just a seething cauldron of rage nowadays?
It only seems that way. One Googler will whine to a journalist, and the next day there is an article on the front page of Slashdot that implies 140,000 employees all agree.
The vast majority of Googlers neither know nor care that some SVP works from NZ.
Googleâ(TM)s collab tools donâ(TM)t work (Score:5, Insightful)
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Only if you take a one dimensional look at a multi-dimensional problem. You are right. You are also wrong. To figure out which you are at any given time depends on the work being done, the context of the work and the task, and the team doing it.
Google only provide the tools you need, you still need to decide if it makes sense to try and get your janitorial staff to clean the office remotely, or if the guy who spends all day hiding behind a computer preparing reports by himself really needs to occupy a desk
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Unequal Treatment is Fine (Score:2)
Urs was one of Google!s first 10 employees and has a long record of success? Damn right he should get special treatment. I donâ(TM)t understand the hubbub.
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Urs was one of Google!s first 10 employees and has a long record of success? Damn right he should get special treatment. I donâ(TM)t understand the hubbub.
Veteran status can easily be dismissed by being an incredible hypocrite, which is akin to "insufferable prick" these days when you're wealthy to boot.
Hope he got a work visa before announcing it (Score:4, Insightful)
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Want to do the tourist thing then almost anyone is welcome but if you want live here you need an immigration visa and they are not easy to get.
Once you have a certain amount of wealth getting a visa is trivial in most countries, and NZ is no exception.
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Is it gaming the system or is it a rational application of the facts?
Immigration barriers exist mostly to protect the local work force. Holzel isn't taking a job from a New Zealander, he has a job which isn't even available to a New Zealander or most anyone else on Earth, really.
He's not going to sap the social welfare system, burden the affordable housing market or be a "drain" on the New Zealand economy.
If anything, his long-term presence in New Zealand represents a net gain to the New Zealand economy, s
You are an asshole, Urs (Score:2)
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Yes the boss can be a hypocrite and the employees can't.
has set the tone for office culture in Silicon Valley... The impact of Google's remote work policies could ripple far and wide...
Hypocrisy will be the new norm and employee loyalty will be nonexistent. That's the "tone" being set.
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TFA glosses over the timelines: Do people who submitted remote work requests last year also have to wait until later this year, or is that wait only for people who asked for remote work recently? It's not hypocrisy if Google simply has different rules now than they did when this guy's remote work was approved.
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TFA glosses over the timelines: Do people who submitted remote work requests last year also have to wait until later this year, or is that wait only for people who asked for remote work recently? It's not hypocrisy if Google simply has different rules now than they did when this guy's remote work was approved.
The Google rules are not hypocritical. The man is hypocritical. Two separate issues which both come together in the company. This is not really about the fact that Google let the man work remote. This is about the fact that the man stood up and tried to stop other people doing what he then chose to do himself. It shows that he's got total contempt for the other people that work at Google. Not a good sign in a senior exec.
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What, is he not assigned to an office while working from New Zealand?
It is perfectly rational to want someone to have an on-site office, and to restrict very flexible working arrangements to those who have shown that they can produce in the base case. He has unquestionably demonstrated the second part of that. Exactly what is hypocritical?
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You are truly illiterate.
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Employee loyalty went the way of the Dodo decades ago. Suck it up, or leave, those are your options.
Re:The boss can do what you can't! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hypocrisy will be the new norm
Errr no. At no point in our history have employees at any public company been treated equal to executives. This isn't new. This isn't hypocrisy, this is a well understood reality and a norm which has existed since public companies have.
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The hypocrisy comes from claiming working remotely is less productive, then becoming a remote worker himself without taking a pay cut. It's a prime example of "do as I say, not as I do". You can be the god-emperor of the entire universe, but if you tell people to do something you avoid yourself, you're a hypocrite.
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The hypocrisy comes from claiming working remotely is less productive, then becoming a remote worker himself without taking a pay cut.
Only if you don't understand the topic at hand.
Productivity: The value of productivity in the office is highly dependent on the team dynamics and the kind of projects. Some teams, especially those which execute work are most definitely more productive in the office, others which focus on independent duties are not.
Paycut: Absolutely no one has equated a pay cut with productivity other than you. Pay cuts have been equated only with living location and by extension the labour market. If you want to work remot
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Is the boss a hypocrite if he expects the janitor to empty the trash, but he doesn't empty the janitor's trash?
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