Tale of Fake Hewlett-Packard Gear Spurs Arrest in China, Lawsuit (bloomberg.com) 45
An anonymous reader shares a report: When three Chinese nationals were jailed in Beijing almost a decade ago and accused of selling fake Hewlett-Packard networking gear, it looked like an example of U.S. companies getting what they'd long demanded: aggressive protection of intellectual property in the world's most populous nation. A drawn-out court case heading to trial in Massachusetts paints a much muddier picture. The three, exonerated in China, accuse the former Silicon Valley icon of setting them up. They argue that it was H-P units that conspired to sell counterfeit gear, and then pinned the blame on them. H-P disputes the claims, and is asking a U.S. federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit, saying the story was concocted by Integrated Communications & Technologies Inc., the Massachusetts-based company that employed the three Chinese nationals, to cover up its own criminal behavior. U.S. District Judge Leo T. Sorokin may rule on the dismissal request at any time. If he lets the case continue, a trial is scheduled for February.
Western companies have been calling on China for years to combat counterfeiting and take action against those that steal their intellectual property. One of the triggers for former U.S. President Donald Trump's trade war was the technology industry's lobbying of the American government to help protect their IP. A loss for either side in the lawsuit would tarnish its reputation in the world's largest market for computers by marking them as an organization that fraudulently sold counterfeit goods. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative identified China as the "primary source" of counterfeit goods in a 2020 report. With Hong Kong, the document details, China accounts for 92% of the value of fake goods seized by U.S. Customs and Border Protection in 2019. In this case, the networking gear was made by an affiliate of H-P's in China, exported to India on lease, then sold back into the Chinese market.
Western companies have been calling on China for years to combat counterfeiting and take action against those that steal their intellectual property. One of the triggers for former U.S. President Donald Trump's trade war was the technology industry's lobbying of the American government to help protect their IP. A loss for either side in the lawsuit would tarnish its reputation in the world's largest market for computers by marking them as an organization that fraudulently sold counterfeit goods. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative identified China as the "primary source" of counterfeit goods in a 2020 report. With Hong Kong, the document details, China accounts for 92% of the value of fake goods seized by U.S. Customs and Border Protection in 2019. In this case, the networking gear was made by an affiliate of H-P's in China, exported to India on lease, then sold back into the Chinese market.
It was made by an HP affiliate? (Score:2)
Re:It was made by an HP affiliate? (Score:4, Insightful)
It does not strike me as trivial to set up a shop to make networking gear. That must be a complicated and expensive plant.
That just says how ignorant you are about electronics manufacture. The design might be complicated, but there would be no special equipment for manufacture. None. Zero. Zilch. The factory is exactly the same as a factory making other electronic devices; PCBs are not different depending on use. The pick and place machines to put the chips on the board are not different. The case, metal or plastic, is just a case; it doesn't matter what is going inside. This is just assembly of parts. This is exactly the type of manufacturing that you can have done in any smallish town in Asia.
The hardest part is getting the logos printed convincingly. Seriously.
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This is exactly the type of manufacturing that you can have done in any smallish town in Asia.
Well that's probably going a little too far..
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It isn't. It certainly isn't.
You'd need a volume term in order to even raise questions about it.
Notice the term "smallish?" OK, so you have to consider first the values for smallish where the statement is true . You'd have to completely fail to find applicable values for "smallish" before you'd be in a position to even raise a question about the statement. That's how stupid you are; you argue without even looking what the terms are, and if they're arguable, or if general terms were used in order to ensure
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It isn't. It certainly isn't.
It absolutely is.
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There's some hyperbole there, particularly the implication that the entire continent (which is mostly Russia, and also includes places like Kazakstan and Syria) has these capabilities.
But within the bits of East Asia with major electronics industries? 100k isn't really small, but it is 'smallish.' Somebody in that town can manufacture PCBs, and somebody else can put them in plastic cases, and somebody else can print up the documentation...
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Syria is in the Middle East. Your geography teacher failed you. Or, you're just an idiot. Not sure.
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"Geography teacher failed me?" Pot, meet kettle.
The Africa/Asia border is the Suez Canal, so there's a small chunk of Egypt in Asia.
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They do not do the chip fab in their own factory, though. This is hilarious; why pretend and look stupid?
FPGAs are just components you place on the board.
I've got a box of them right here. I'll bet you don't even wonder why I would have them?
Re:It was made by an HP affiliate? (Score:4, Interesting)
As in a contract manufacturer? Are they making excess quantity and selling it? Is that the case? It does not strike me as trivial to set up a shop to make networking gear. That must be a complicated and expensive plant.
Correct. Much counterfeit is extras run off on the same assembly line, often with inferior parts.
The contracts to run the lines are very explicit: no running off extra stuff!
It can be easy to track some of this because they sell it on the Internet using the proper part numbers.
If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling Will Be (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling Will (Score:5, Interesting)
That would be damn near every company of any size in the US.
Napoleon said it best:
"Money has no Fatherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency. Their sole object is gain."
He was a bit upset at discovering Rothschilds Bank was financing both sides of his wars. Last I heard, the French were still paying interest on it.
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Problem is that is 99% of US companies, and US companies, thanks to the Citizens United verdict, own the government. Which pretty much gives China more control over US companies than the US has.
For example, if a big company had a built in VPN system. In the US, if the government asked them not to do it, they would post an ad and say they are championing freedom and would never bow down to tyranny. On the other hand, if China asked them not to implement it... it would be gone in seconds.
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling Wil (Score:2)
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... and then the guys like me, who were working-class in the companies that got sent overseas, are now pointing the finger at the imperialists and saying "See?? We told you so!!!"
Friggen 40 years later... all those lives destroyed and all that industrial capacity wasted, all that dependence on a foreign power... just to feed some people's GREED.
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Welcome to capitalism...
Those companies that didn't outsource and kept manufacturing local would have faced higher prices and gone out of business long ago. Once one company starts outsourcing they all have to, otherwise they won't be able to compete and will go under.
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last I checked none of them were losing money 50 yrs ago. Like you said, once one of them went, all of them had to -- because of GREED
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling Wi (Score:2)
How much does the Chinese government pay you to spread Chinese propaganda? Is your terminal monitored so that everything you write on great-firewalled sites gets recorded to make sure you've maintained your ideological purity and not been corrupted by Western ideas? How about your family, is your monitored work tied to their well-being, so that if you show any sign of defiance to the Party they might be vaporized? In fact, do you know what vaporization is? As in, Har you read George Orwell's "1984"? Or is t
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How tiny is your dick? And how loose is your asshole? Is it bloody? Is your mouth sore?
Funny, you ask those questions as if they're bad! Wanna see? :-*
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:2)
The amazing thing about most Americans is they do the propaganda labor for their own oppression for free.
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have you ever looked at the history of the United States?
Yes, the US has a messed up History, as does my country, and as does China -- which, in terms of messed-up-ness, goes hand in hand with India's in their dispute for the top spot.
So? Other than the hypocritical whataboutism, do you have a point, or is this just an exercise in informal fallacies?
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:3)
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your reply to my comment was to question my motives and credibility
Your original comment had two affirmations:
a) "If [China having more control over US companies than the US has] were true we wouldn't see the constant stream of anti-China rhetoric we do."
This is false because the Chinese government isn't interested in forbidding freedom of though among Americans, it's interested in forbidding freedom of thought among its Chinese subjects within China. Among the American people, and other adversarial countries of theirs, the Chinese government wants, as any realpolitik-mind
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:2)
And yes, I oppose colonialism and imperialism, of which the US and European powers are the greatest offenders.
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Imperialism for leftists has an actual definition
Ah, yes! The old "my dictator is better than yours!" method of systematic bullshitting! A veritable classic!
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:2)
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I just stated we seem to have different definitions of imperialism.
Redefinition of term is a traditional modus operandi for the Marxist left in general, and for the revolutionary left in particular. Slavery gets renamed "reeducation through work". Oppressive totalitarian dictatorships get renamed as "popular democratic republics". Wars of territorial conquest get renamed "liberation fronts". And so on and so forth. As a rule of thumb, anything bad the extreme left does in the exact same way done by the extreme right, the left redefines such that the extreme left's version
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:2)
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From my perspective it's a typical right wing mode of operation to constantly redefine words
Thanks for exemplifying what I mean.
Americans are so saturated
I'm not American, nor in the USA, but I agree with this criticism. In fact, I agree with political and economic criticisms in general. The left's criticism of right-wing politics is good. The right's criticism of left-wing politics is good too. What's trashy are their respective positive proposals to "solve" what they criticize.
China doesn't have large scale expansionist goals.
Do you read the links you provide?
Re: If There's Justice This Is What The Ruling W (Score:2)
Western powers after WW2 had decided unilaterally where all the borders were and the borders they set should
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If you talk to the CCP, they want to restore the borders of the Qing dynasty and no more
You're again confusing Chinese propaganda for Chinese practice. Every major world power says nice falsities that have little to nothing to do with their real practice, the placating discourse following and adapting to the later's moving goal posts, not the other way around. Case in point, the nine-dash line. Once the Qing dynasty borders are "restored" (aka "f**k peoples' self-determination, what's mine is mine" -- exactly like the Israeli, Turkish and so many other governments do), the speech will move one
Been that way for decades (Score:5, Interesting)
discovery needs to deep into all HP / 3rd partys (Score:1)
discovery needs to deep into all HP / 3rd party's or YOU MUST ACQUIT!
jurys are an crapshoot in cases like this but crim (Score:2)
jurys are an crap shoot in cases like this but in an criminal you do have the right to trail by jury
Not the first time... (Score:5, Interesting)
Enforcement? Manufacture local. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Japan is leaving. [youtu.be]
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Except that's WRONG.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotli... [nikkei.com]
Japan is investing more money in China than it's pulling out. Sure it's diversifying some of its supply chains, but they are not moving out.
Possibly a misleading stat (Score:1)
China probably accounts for about 92% of real goods also. Thus, China doesn't necessarily have a higher ratio of IP crooks, it just makes more stuff in general, real and fake.