Microsoft Boots Older PCs Out of Windows 11 Preview Testing (pcworld.com) 72
Shortly after announcing Windows 11's October 5 release date, Microsoft began booting Windows Insider preview PCs with unsupported hardware out of Windows 11 testing. PCWorld reports: [T]he day that Microsoft announced Windows 11's release date, Windows Insiders on unsupported PCs began receiving a message telling them they're no longer eligible for the Windows 11 Insider program, as seen in BetaWiki's tweet above and confirmed by BleepingComputer. Unsupported Insider PCs need to go back to Windows 10 to continue participating in the program (and presumably continue to receive updates). While the move isn't a surprise, the timing is, as Microsoft previously stated that Windows Insiders with non-compatible hardware would be able to continue to run Windows 11 until it was "generally available." Most PCs released or built over the last three years will run Windows 11 without issue, however.
Do I read this correctly? (Score:4, Interesting)
Unsupported Insider PCs need to go back to Windows 10 to continue participating in the program
It is possible to revert to Win10 from Win11 when you find out that it's even worse?
Re:Do I read SWASTIKAS correctly? (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry bud, but microsoft is giving you a beating in the whole "offending everyone" category.
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No, you can not 'revert'. You need to do a clean install.
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Or restoration from a backup.
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Try making a clean Win10 install to see if stuff get slower again.
Windows have a tendency of accumulating trash over time and getting slower and slower.
There is this dll cache folder for example that just grows and grows.
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Bad package management might leave behind now-unused libraries when uninstalling software. Not that those libraries actually do anything....
And not all software uninstalls remove the global configuration located in /etc. In Debian-based systems, you need to do a "complete uninstall" to remove all those config files.
But they still don't have the same impact as a gunked-up windows registry does.
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but everything else is a marked improvement across the board.
Except for the lack of security and feature updates by having an i7-7700K from 2017 instead of the identical chip from 2018.
Yes, *identical*, all vT* features are identical, clock speeds, core count, everything, identical.
Except the date code.
I'd bet you a thousand dollars if you could edit that date code to return 2018, this thing would run Win 11 until the OS EOL just fine.
But as it is, one digit off, Win 11 will be equally as secure as Win 7 or XP. Known exploits in the wild with no intent from Microsof
Re:Do I read this correctly? (Score:4, Informative)
Unsupported Insider PCs need to go back to Windows 10 to continue participating in the program
It is possible to revert to Win10 from Win11 when you find out that it's even worse?
I'll save you the time and trouble -- it'll be worse.
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I know. You might notice that I wrote "when" and not "if".
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Of course it will be. It's the next version. No doubt in 6 years you'll be here telling everyone Windows 12 will be garage and we should all stick to Windows 11 since it was the last functioning OS MS managed to make, just like the OS before, and the OS before that, all the way to the beginning of Slashdot.
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I reverted from win11 to win10 a few days ago, works the same as reverting win10 versions.
Re: Do I read this correctly? (Score:2)
So you got to revert to Windows 10 to continue testing Windows 11?
Um, makes sense?
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No. You have to do a full reinstall. People in the Insider program are in theory already prepared for that possibility; the program comes with warnings to that effect. I have had one computer in the Insider program since the early beta period for Windows 10, and I did indeed have to reinstall once during that beta because an update refused to take and the system got thoroughly scrambled. (On the bright side, I got a free Windows license out of that. In the early phase of the Windows 10 beta you could use an
Conflict of Interest - Who are the players? (Score:1)
Re:Conflict of Interest - Who are the players? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are they trying to create a squeeze now that there is a global chip shortage and the Chinese communists have stolen ARM?
Can't have older PCs, that are perfectly capable of running Windows 11, get in the way of forcing sales of new PCs "required" to run Windows 11, can we? Can't allow those older PCs w/o hardware/security feature of the new(er) PCs, that Windows 11 uses, get in the way of Microsoft further locking down the platform, can we?
This all about pushing (a) new hardware sales (*especially* while the prices are jacked up), and (b) Microsoft's desire to further lock things down like iOS on Apple products -- you know, for *our* safety. The next stages for "b" will be that Windows works "better" on Microsoft devices, like the Surface, then Windows works only on Microsoft products ...
E-waste (Score:4, Interesting)
This all about pushing (a) new hardware sales
What if any measures has Microsoft announced to cover the cost of disposing of electronic waste (e-waste) generated as a direct result of the transition from Windows 10 to Windows 11?
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I had the misfortune of working on a new Acer (Intel 1th Gen i5) desktop that secure boot could NOT be turned off. This became an issue as there was data that needed to be recovered off of an nVME drive after someone scammed the customer, got access to the system, and I had to figure out how to "Un-Delete" data (it was a quick delete, so the data was still there, and only wiped from the NTFS index file system) and I could not boot my utility (linux-based) nor anything other than Windows 10 on it, requiring
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Can't have older PCs, that are perfectly capable of running Windows 11
Define perfectly capable. Being fast does not make something perfectly capable. If one of the OS's biggest selling points is security features then the existance of not only a TPM, but also DCH drivers and by extension the ability to run VBS (That's the Virtualisation Based Security), then you can't justify you're perfectly capable of running the system.
Even now some of windows 10's biggest security features are constantly questioned by security experts because if you lack a TPM when you first enable them t
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"Define perfectly capable. Being fast does not make something perfectly capable."
That is exactly what Microsoft is failing to do here. What glorious use is it that we NEED this newer hardware for? Microsoft appears to be keeping this secret, or they are just making up artificial requirements.
A long time ago it used to be some software required a CD-ROM drive. What did we need a CD-ROM for? One glance at a stack of a few hundred floppies, and you knew you needed it.
Today? "We say you need uh, mmfmfmfmfm tech
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That is exactly what Microsoft is failing to do here. What glorious use is it that we NEED this newer hardware for? Microsoft appears to be keeping this secret, or they are just making up artificial requirements.
No they aren't. You're just too busy reading popular media rather than actually seeking out the information. The Insider blogs have repeatedly discussed hardware requirements, the security systems they are mandating as well as why there are certain discrepancies in the hardware list such as how and why a few 7th gen chips were recently qualified.
If I wanted technical information on how AMD's infinity fabric works, I'm not going to sit around and wait for someone to tweet it to me (which is the basis for a l
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This all about pushing (a) new hardware sales
Sorry kiddo, but MS doesn't give a flying fuck about pushing hardware sales for some third party.
Um, you do know that Micros~1 gets to sell a copy of Windows with every new PC someone makes? That means that every new PC sold gets them a fresh slice of Windows tax; upgrades don't.
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Yes, a fact that is so incredibly relevant to MS's bottom line that they outright decided to give the previous version of Windows away for free.
No seriously though, MS doesn't care. Personal computing makes up a fraction of MS's income and Windows OEM licenses are a tiny tiny portion of that fraction. Microsoft hasn't been an OS company for a long time.
And don't forget, no one gives a shit. People have never given a shit about an OS. The fact that Windows 7 was upgraded to Windows 10 on millions of PCs is a
And I was so hoping to do free QA and beta testing (Score:3)
For another operating system I have no intention of ever using.
Maybe even buying new hardware to be able to test.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
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>Technical:
They are using really cool new CPU instructions so they need to compile binaries with support for those.
Somehow I don't see the last one being the case...
That does seem to be part of the rationalization. From Why Windows 11 has such strict hardware requirements, according to Microsoft [arstechnica.com]
A towering stack of security acronyms:
That's where the security requirements come back into play. Microsoft goes to greater lengths to explain the benefits of using Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 modules, but the key may actually be the less-discussed virtualization requirement and an alphabet soup of acronyms. Windows 11 (and also Windows 10!) uses virtualization-based security, or VBS, to isolate parts of system memory from the rest of the system. VBS includes an optional feature called "memory integrity." That's the more user-friendly name for something called Hypervisor-protected code integrity, or HVCI. HVCI can be enabled on any Windows 10 PC that doesn't have driver incompatibility issues, but older computers will incur a significant performance penalty because their processors don't support mode-based execution control, or MBEC.
And that acronym seems to be at the root of Windows 11's CPU support list. If it supports MBEC, generally, it's in. If it doesn't, it's out. MBEC support is only included in relatively new processors, starting with the Kaby Lake and Skylake-X architectures on Intel's side, and the Zen 2 architecture on AMD's side—this matches pretty closely, albeit not exactly, with the Windows 11 processor support lists.
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Microsoft says that Insider Program PCs that didn't meet Windows 11's minimum requirements "had 52% more kernel mode crashes" than PCs that did and that "devices that do meet the system requirements had a 99.8% crash-free experience." According to Microsoft, this mostly comes down to active driver support. Newer computers mostly use newer DCH drivers, ...
Of course, Microsoft writes the OS so they can make it as robust/flaky as the want to support older (style) drivers... Sounds like a convenient way to obsolete a lot of stuff they don't want to have to support anymore.
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To me it seems like a good reason just to stick to 10, and skip 11 totally.
The way *nix gaming is progressing, I'm hoping that by the time Win12 comes out, I'll be able to move totally off of it without losing access to some of my favorite games. (literally, outside of work, the only reason I use win10 these days.)
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To me it seems like a good reason just to stick to 10, and skip 11 totally.
I have several PCs, most were given to me by friends that were getting new systems, and they're all older hardware that won't qualify for Windows 11, but they work well for Windows 10 and Linux. I'm not buying something *just* to run 11, when support for 10 expires, so this will push me to migrating to Linux full-time. I don't actually have that many reason to stick with Windows, just laziness I guess, and the very few things I have that will be a PITA to migrate I could run in a Windows 10 VM on Linux w/
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It's a beta (Score:2)
It's a legitimate question - why should Microsoft staff waste time dealing with issues on a beta on hardware they won't support in the actual release?
(Separate question from abandoning perfectly good, working Windows 10 hardware.)
Re:It's a beta (Score:5, Informative)
...why should Microsoft staff waste time dealing with issues on a beta on hardware they won't support in the actual release?
They shouldn't. It makes no sense. However, there is no good reason to not support recent hardware. Other operating system vendors seem to have little to no problem with it. It's just Microsoft flexing its monopoly muscles.
As is par for the course, Windows users will once again bend over and say, "more please!" Why? Because they have intentionally put themselves into an abusive relationship with what should be their servants. That's really messed up.
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I'll use alternative operating systems when companies start making Linux builds. Even on OSX the number of CAD packages is abysmal compared to Windows.
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So for me this business of requiring recent CPUs is a new thing. It might be justified by the security requeriments of the CPUs that are supported or it might be because they want to spur hardware sales.
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Other operating system vendors seem to have little to no problem with it.
Based on what? In the desktop world we have two alternatives, MacOS, and Linux. MacOS has on multiple occasions depreciated support for hardware that was perfectly fast enough to run the new OS based solely on new features. Linux on the other hand has a backwards compatibility problem, namely people will cry bloody murder if the latest kernel was restricted to a system with hardware security.
If you haven't seen this coming for over 5 years by now then you've been too focused on CPU speed while ignoring what
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Mostly agree with your writing except the "hardware security" part. That "secure boot" thing is a hoax. The only function it serves so far is restricting a computer from booting non-Windows. If they are doing things truthfully, computer owners shall be able to install/uninstall custom keys for the bootloader signature check, such that the mechanism would be truly vendor neutral.
For the TPM thing, it is increasing the chance of unrecoverable data loss for most computer users. In the past, as long as the s
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It's a legitimate question - why should Microsoft staff waste time dealing with issues on a beta on hardware they won't support in the actual release?
Because up until recently MS has said that older hardware would not run except when users showed that it would run. Also up until recently MS was not specific about some of the older hardware like 7th gen Intel and 1st gen Ryzen. They said those generations "might" run later clarifying specific CPUs. MS cannot have users proving them wrong, can they?
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There was a fine line behind saying it wouldn't run and whether it was supported.
And their argument has been if their downloadable wizard says a computer doesn't meet the requirements then - screw it - buy a Windows 11 computer.
I'm not making any moral judgement on the above, but if people attempt to run an unsupported beta on unsupported hardware then tough luck.
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There was a fine line behind saying it wouldn't run and whether it was supported.
MS can always control what processors they support; however, they had to justify why they were not supporting processors that were only 4 years old. They wanted to say it was hardware requirements but when people showed that was not true then MS has to make sure people cannot show that anymore.
This is idiotic.... (Score:2)
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It smacks largely of planned obsolescence, as does every phone maker refusing to support their hardware after a handful of years. It's about time much longer support was mandated by law. Technology used to last decades, now you're lucky if it lasts 3 years. How long until TVs stop working because there are no new updates? Washing machines? Fridges? Fuck the IOT.
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Re: This is idiotic.... (Score:2)
Even if the OS still supports your old PC, how long is the hardware itself going to work? Planned obsolesence isn't limited to software.
I always found it ironic that back in the XT and 286 days, those machines were built like tanks despite computers becoming obsolite a lot quicker. The only reasoning for this I can see was back then, professional grade hardware was expected to be built like tanks, such as the IBM selectric.
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Electronics can still last a long time, it's a bit inherent to electronics - few moving parts. Most computers i see fail is due to external causes. Coffee. Dust. Fried power supplies. Core stuff like CPU, memory and mainboard usually just works. Even in this era. I see plenty 15-year old computers that run fine.
You mention the x286, which was indeed interesting era. But don't forget a lot of XT x86 machines ended up being used for 10+ year too. I'ts just that in the mid-90's everyone wanted to jump on the
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Windows server VM (Score:1)
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GOOD and this is why: (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows 10 works fine at what they bought old machines to do, and the deliberate premeditated adult choice to run proprietary operating systems has consequences. Users are getting exactly what they signed up for.
Geeks won't be seriously inconvenienced and the more cheap used business class machines on the market the better for FOSS users who buy them cheaply.
I see no problem here.
Re: GOOD and this is why: (Score:2)
The New Silverlighting... (Score:2)
The New Silverlighting campaign by Microsoft. A "lite" version of Windows 11 "Windows 11 FU2" would be a better option, but Windows has become a one-size fits all, if you have the right PC. Those older PC's now should move to lightweight Linux distros that can run on old i486SX platforms.
JoshK.
My 7 year old Mac still runs the latest OSX (Score:3)
Just to put some more fuel on the fire.
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That's nothing. My computer started on Windows XP 64-bit and I could run the current Windows 10 on it if I wanted. That's 20 years of OS compatibility.
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That same machine I could instead have just installed Win 10 without issue. These days, it's the PC that has the longer supported systems rather than the Macs.
Re: My 7 year old Mac still runs the latest OSX (Score:2)
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Are you implying that Apple has never depreciated relatively recent hardware through an OS update? Man you have a short memory.
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Just a funny reversal. Apple supports their Macs with new OS versions for, what, 8 years or so?
As I said, short memory. The current OS on their current platform may support back for 8 years. But you don't need to look back very far to realise that this isn't some normal company policy that they've had for a long time.
Runs on any HW if u use win10 boot iso for win11 i (Score:2)
Serious question: How does it keep running fine on my 3 old laptops at home just by using the win10 iso to boot the installer while installing win11 ??
I can understand it bypasses the hw check "before install" but after its installed and win update has been doing its thing since months I would expect it to panic and give some error messages by now..
They are all i5 & i7 of 6xxx gen, have TPM 1.2 and secure boot keeps getting disabled anyway inspite of taking trouble to install the linux distros on each w
Skip 11, wait for 12 (Score:2)
SO glad... (Score:2)
...this won't be an issue for me. Kubuntu performs adequately so far.
I just genuinely wish I could pay for it and receive an OS that is actually good rather than merely adequate.
To be honest, I wish I had paid for Windows 7 back when and hopefully given MS incentive to make THAT OS better rather than... well, all the crap that came after.
Seriously though... the support situation for Linux is Bad. Capital B bad. Back in the day you used to get made fun of for asking noob question but they at least helped you
Re: SO glad... (Score:2)
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For home use? Where?
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