Mozilla Experiment: Set Default Search Engine to Bing for 1% of Firefox Users (ghacks.net) 73
"Mozilla is running an experiment on 1% of the Firefox desktop population currently, which sets the default search engine to Bing in the web browser," reports Ghacks:
[I]n most regions, it is Google Search. Mozilla and Google extended the search deal in 2020 for another three years. Google is paying Mozilla "between $400 and $450 million per year" so that its search engine is the default in Firefox in most regions. Google has been Firefox's default search engine since 2017, when Mozilla ended its search deal with Yahoo early.
Firefox users may change the default search engine to one of the other engines that are included by default, or an engine that is not included but can be added...
The study started on September 6 and it will run until early 2022, likely January 2022. About 1% of Firefox desktop users may notice that the default search engine is changed when the installation of Firefox is picked for the experiment.
Tip: load about:studies in the Firefox address bar to list the studies that the browser us currently taking part in and has completed already. Firefox users who don't want to participate in studies can disable the preference "Allow Firefox to install and run studies" on about:preferences#privacy.
Firefox users may change the default search engine to one of the other engines that are included by default, or an engine that is not included but can be added...
The study started on September 6 and it will run until early 2022, likely January 2022. About 1% of Firefox desktop users may notice that the default search engine is changed when the installation of Firefox is picked for the experiment.
Tip: load about:studies in the Firefox address bar to list the studies that the browser us currently taking part in and has completed already. Firefox users who don't want to participate in studies can disable the preference "Allow Firefox to install and run studies" on about:preferences#privacy.
Not gonna work well (Score:1)
For a long time, I'm had Bing set as the default search engine on my phone (I have Google set on my normal desktop browser, but I often use DuckDuckGo).
Even with the light searching I do on mobile, I still end up using Google for maybe 10% of the time...
The one section of image search, where for whatever reason Bing seems to produce superior results and I use it on the desktop as well.
So basically, I don't think those people switched to Bing as default will be very happy about it after a few weeks.
Re: (Score:1)
Mozilla and Google extended the search deal in 2020 for another three years. Google is paying Mozilla "between $400 and $450 million per year
Mozilla has had this type of deal with Google for more than a decade. Mozilla has been paid billions of dollars and they literally do nothing except make Google the default search in Firefox.
With that amount of free money pouring in, its no wonder that Firefox sucks balls. There's no incentive to make a good product when you've got billions of dollars guaranteed.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The one section of image search, where for whatever reason Bing seems to produce superior results and I use it on the desktop as well.
Yeah, Bing does seem to be much better for finding porn. After all, the internet is for porn. [youtu.be]
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, Bing does seem to be much better for finding porn
Ha Ha, I really should have specified "non porn" images. I don't know if any normal search engines even work well for porn?
Re: (Score:3)
I don't know if any normal search engines even work well for porn?
Yep, Bing is very good for that.
(so I'm told)
Re: (Score:2)
The one section of image search, where for whatever reason Bing seems to produce superior results and I use it on the desktop as well.
Yep. Bing is definitely better for porn.
Re: (Score:3)
Tip: load about:studies in the Firefox address bar to list the studies
Which shows you how reliable toe results from this sort of thing will be: Anyone who has the faintest inkling of this stuff will have disabled it. Which is why Mozilla can keep claiming that "60% of our users support $this_weeks_random_change", because it's 60% of the tiny fraction of the user base who haven't figured out how to disable the spying functionality.
Yeah, no. (Score:1)
Bing will literally pay you to use it and yet it remains so time consuming to get usable results that it still isn't worth it.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, I use it but the results are obviously orientated towards making money for Microsoft and for a large minority of searches I end up going to Google which I'm trying to avoid because Goggle are shitty in numerous ways.
I have one (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a good Mozilla Experiment: make a browser with extensive add-on support, customizability, features for power users, and which doesn't push political BS through a bloated foundation or make changes unless there's a great reason for it--and especially not to the UI!
Oh, they ran that experiment already? It was called Firefox? They should do that again.
Re:I have one (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
So I've got these bookmarks for Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo and a couple of others. When I want to search for something I just pick which one I want to use, instead of relying on some half-ass retarded built in search function that's based on whatever $$$$ deal the browser has with certain search engines.
Re: (Score:2)
especially not to the UI!
Accept no imitations, demand the original [seamonkey-project.org], same UI for over 25 years
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
No it was called Pale Moon and Waterfox.
The fact that neither of them are very popular and both are struggling to get developers on board. Not just to develop the core browser, but to develop all those add ons you desperately want to exist.
That experiment seems to have confirmed it's a bad idea.
They did that (Score:2)
As for
Re: (Score:3)
Full root access to your computer via a program running as a user? That's not root access.
The purpose of an add-on repository is that malicious addons can be found and removed.
You run the same risk downloading any software. Just get trustworthy addons and you're fine.
Re: They did that (Score:2)
Yes, even MS and Google don't care about power users. What those 2 wants is the msinstream users which represent the vast majority of users to monetize them.
That's why Mozilla should care about the power users, because that's the only market where they have a chance.
They can't compete against those ywo juggernauts for the mainstream users, it's game over there. Even if firefox was better than chrome and edge, it's not significantly better, and edge is unfairly pushed through windows, office, skype while chr
I override to DuckDuckGo (Score:2)
So I don't care what the Firefox default is. On all the browsers I run, I manually set the search engine to DuckDuckGo. (Safari Mac OS, iOS, Firefox Mac OS. Don't use Chrome or Edge...)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, whichever the browser, the first order of business is to unfuck the settings - part of which is to change the default search engine to something not hateful.
Re: I override to DuckDuckGo (Score:2)
You call it Bing (Score:1)
âoeYou call it Bing. We called it Bung. We knew all about the goodness of maizeâ"cornâ"before America was America.A recent study found that Bung Oil lowers cholesterol* more than extra virgin olive oil.â Put some corn in your shit today! Use Bung!
What's with Mozilla? (Score:2)
They're being paid to. (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost half a billion from Google according TFA, presumably so they can point and say "see look, we're not a monopoly!".
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or it could be on orders from Google to tamp down talk of monopoly.
"see look, we're not a monopoly!" (Score:2)
Immediate thought: Intel vs AMD (despite AMD kicking ass again, companies like Dell refuse to use them and some companies (like GM) refuse to allow them in their systems) or winshit vs Linux.
Same difference.
This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:1)
You are all fucking lab rats, this is why you are opted in for the experiments by default.
But other to lab rats, the last remaining FUCKED PISSED HEAVILY AGGREVATED EXPERIMENTED AND TELEMETERED firefox users we can still fight back through about:config .. .. and when it really comes to the LibreFox moment we all need to jump.
Who ever is changing to Chrome/ium has lost his/her dignity.
Re:This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:5, Insightful)
All the power users turn off telemetry. Firefox sees nobody uses these features and they get removed. People who turn off telemetry complain about missing features.
Re:This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:5, Interesting)
I did point that out to a Mozilla developer and their response was that such people have indicated that they don't want their views to be considered.
The argument was that the telemetry is anonymous and doesn't contain any personal data so the only reason to turn it off it because you don't want your opinion to count. That seems like some faulty logic.
Mozilla set up a website where you can give feedback, but there is little indication that it has any effect.
http://input.mozilla.org/ [mozilla.org]
Re:This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:4, Interesting)
"I'm shock, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
"Your winnings, sir."
Firefox's claims about their anonymity of their telemetry does not seem based on reality. "Anonymized" seems to mean "they label it with a number rather than a name". Labeling with a number is also how IP addresses work, and given the hardware data being sent, identifying a specific user could be done with a quite high degree of confidence. Such data harvesting is not unique, but it's never as anonymous as claimed.
Re: (Score:2)
There's a complete list of Firefox telemetry items here: https://probes.telemetry.mozil... [mozilla.org]
I had to add an exception to uBlock Origin because it blocked that domain by default.
Note that many of the items were only recorded between two specific versions and are no longer collected by the current version. Note also that many items were only collected in the preview versions, not in the release versions (there is a tick box to filter only release versions at the top).
I'm curious why you think that their claims
Re: (Score:2)
I'm afraid that you are mistaken. Take a look at "about:telemetry#environment-data-tab" in a Firefox browser, and look at "environment data". It particularly includes information about hard drives, drivers, and anti-virus information which what they _report_ collecting today in the local browser settings. What is actually collected is outside of our typical view, though a man-in-the-middle proxy sniffing the packets might reveal it. Or not reveal the information, if the data is not sent when a proxy is dete
Re: (Score:2)
I believe that stuff is only collected in the event of a crash, not as part of general telemetry that gets used for evaluating features.
Re: (Score:2)
"only collected in the event of a crash". Yes, indeed, that prevents inappropriate and unwelcome data gathering.
Re: (Score:2)
It actually asks you every single time for that reason.
Re:This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny anecdote: Every quarter there is a meeting of the local council to determine what to do with redecorating funds in the park. No one ever goes. Nothing ever happens other than directing the funds to the defaults which is weed control and path cleaning which is being pointlessly overdone. The neighborhood I live in is has 3 retirement homes surrounding the park.
Recently the kids in our building were complaining about the state of the skate park, so I suggested they get their friends together and go to the council meeting and vote to direct the funds to replace them. They turned up with a small army of people to an otherwise empty room and overwhelmingly voted to have the skate park replaced.
Fast forward 4 months. We have a brand new skate park and all the old people in the neighbourhood are bitching and moaning about what a waste of money it was. I didn't attend it but apparently the following council meeting was packed with the whiners and the councilors effectively told these people who never took interest before to go fuck themselves ... politely of course.
That seems like some faulty logic.
Not really. You know what they are collecting the data for and you know that the product is being developed based on this data.
You don't get to complain in the slightest when you actively decide to not take part in the decision making process.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:4, Insightful)
All the power users turn off telemetry. Firefox sees nobody uses these features and they get removed. People who turn off telemetry complain about missing features.
Mozilla doesn't care what's used or what people want. The everything blends together proton tab disaster and whatever the fuck Firefox for Android is supposed to be is living proof.
Lost track of the number of times I looked up how to fix something on a Firefox wiki only to realize the the instructions are no longer applicable because Mozilla removed the setting. They simply don't give a fuck.
The problem is .. (Score:3)
1.) .. I don't complain about missing features
- it's about opted into everything by default
2.) .. is the realization, that Mozilla-devs are basically are just unable to choose a sane design path themselves .. without "telemetry".
Once you hit that point as a developer, you should give up your job, unable to self reflect on your design choices.
3.) .. there is enough feedback on the changes out there (issue trackers, comments, discussions, ..) - those who choose to listen can reflect - Mozilla-devs just seem
Re: (Score:2)
All the power users turn off telemetry.
I don't.
Re: (Score:2)
> > All the power users turn off telemetry. :p
> I don't.
So parent's claim is still ok
Re: This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Huh looks like I've got myself a stalker. Still want to fight in real life? Pistols at dawn or do you prefer the fisticuffs? Where do you even buy duelling pistols these days?
Anyway, you will be waiting a good long time my fine friend, since the truth isn't libel.
Re: This is what Mozilla-devs think: (Score:1)
You Meat Head. (Score:2)
Ohh Auchie!!!
If that was true, how do you explain the persistence of Pocket?
Re: (Score:1)
Who ever is changing to Chrome/ium has lost his/her dignity.
Or maybe we just have few fucks to give about the hill you choose to die on.
Inaccurate google results (Score:2)
People here keep saying that google gives me shitty results because I keep clicking on shitty results.
Well here is a simple test for you. Search for these two terms
itunes flac
Tell me how far down the list of results you had to go before you find one with BOTH terms.
Re: (Score:3)
https://kirkville.com/how-to-p... [kirkville.com]
Of course, my modus operandi is to use the '+' sign when I require a term, thus:
+itunes +flac
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
For me, result #2 fits your criteria. The link is https://kirkville.com/how-to-p... [kirkville.com]
Maybe they adjusted their algorithm to try to prove you wrong. :-)
Re: (Score:3)
"Tell me how far down the list of results you had to go"
Number 1 result in Google and Bing
Re: (Score:2)
Like the others, I see the sites with both search terms within 2 or 3 entries. What results did you get? I wonder if the flurry of requests from /. users "primed the cache" in some manner (on 2nd thought, no. No one gets "slashdotted" any more). I would expect, though, that with whatever "personalization" of search results that there might be, your browser/system/userid would be a stronger influence.
Anything for (Score:2)
Don't care (Score:1)
keepin it simple (Score:4, Informative)
Study like these will be useful (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
They comedy is all about timing.
The only thing that would have been funnier, is if they ran this story FIRST, and then ran the story asking my users are abandoning Firefox.
I'm sure NetCraft will confirm it (Score:2)
Big Bux (Score:2)
changing users to Microsoft w/o permission (Score:2)
Why would open source browser change default to Microsoft's search engine without permission? What the fuck is wrong with Mozilla these days?
It's almost as if they are begging someone to destroy them...
Want to regain market share? (Score:2)
Ask users who left what would bring them back.
Telemetry from the happy remaining users only offers affirmation.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd have to say two things:
* Mozilla's apparent inability to listen to their remaining users. Presumably they're listening to telemetry somehow, but they don't listen to bug reports or complaints in forums.
* Poor UI decisions. The floating tabs thing is terrible UI; surely there was nobody clamoring for this, or a study indicating that it was somehow better... someone loud at Mozilla liked it and bulldozed it in.
I've been experimenting with Brave for a few weeks. It somehow doesn't feel right, but at least
have to ask (Score:2)
Just how in the Seven Hells does Mozilla think they can just change my settings and me be OK with it?
Are they going to ask the users first or just pull a Folgers?
"We've secretly changed the default search engine in this user's browser. Let's see if they notice."
Coffee is one thing, my search engine choice is another.
All I can really say is I am thankful the part of Mozilla that manages Seamonkey hasn't pulled this kind of BS yet. When that changes so will the browser/composer/email suite I use.
Before you scream... (Score:1)
They want to get rid of the Google dependency that is literally killing them right now. (Like having the clown from It be your legal guardian, kiddo. ;)
So while a better search engine would be better, this is still a good thing.
It's not like Startpage or DDG are gonna pay Mozilla millions any time soon.
I see (Score:3)
That might be why they are bleeding users like crazy.
Re: (Score:2)
That's like saying a guy who had his arms and limbs cut off and was bleeding like crazy and then got stung by a mosquito before he died, died of the mosquito bite. Mozilla has been bleeding users for a decade. This likely has zero impact on this trend.
That was quick (Score:1)