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Transportation

Chip Shortage Leads Carmaker Opel To Shut German Plant Until 2022 (reuters.com) 61

Posted by BeauHD from the cause-and-effect dept.
Carmaker Opel, which is part of the Stellantis group, said on Thursday it will close one of its plants in Germany until at least the end of the year due to chip shortages. Reuters reports: Production at the Eisenach plant, which makes internal combustion engine and hybrid electric cars, should start again in 2022, although an Opel spokesperson could not specify a date. Some 1,300 workers employed at the plant will be temporarily laid off, Opel said, with a separate plant in France picking up some of the production. Stellantis has halted production at other plants, including in Europe and Canada, forecasting that it would make 1.4 million fewer vehicles this year due to the chip shortage.
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Chip Shortage Leads Carmaker Opel To Shut German Plant Until 2022 More

Chip Shortage Leads Carmaker Opel To Shut German Plant Until 2022

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  • Something to run without a computer

    • Gonna need to figure out how to keep cars on the road longer. Auto repair shops should stay busy. Buy stock in AutoZone.

      • Every computer device/block is just an embedded platform of some sort with IO.

        If they cant source a controller/ecu of some sort of hardware, why not just buy 10000s of android phones,port your software to it, use USB , and use the motherboard without the case in a metal case.

        Often an android phone is 10x more powerful than industry platforms using real real old cpus.

        • The problem isn't chip availability, it's car manufacturers failing to upgrade their designs. They want chip makers to keep producing outdated chip designs from decades ago but chip manufacturers aren't interested in keeping factories around to make those.

          So instead of switching to hacks, they could just use modern chips...

        • The bigger issue is going to be the chips to interface the android usb port to the real world. Even the backlight and notification LED interfaces would need external chips to do anything useful in a car.

    • Emissions and efficiency requirements require very precise controls compared to your carbureted â69 Mustang. I donâ(TM)t think Harley has been affected, so maybe buy one of those if you really need a vehicle.

      • You know what doesn't require either a computer or a carburetor?

        A fucking bicycle. Of course, having sex on a bike isn't for everyone, but it does gets you from point A to point B.

        • What is wrong with you?

        • Re: Can't they use an analog engine? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Friday October 01, 2021 @12:22AM (#61849997)

          There was a post a bit back on logistical problems.

          And guess what is included with that? Bicycle parts.

          Revamping my old bike has taken over two months in trying to source parts, and only getting mildly screwed on prices.

          And unfortunately, the Cash for Clunkers ordeal has removed several viable cars from stock and several states have outlawed stand-alone ECUs, so if current vehicles start having hiccups, we may be like Cuba soon enough.

          • "the Cash for Clunkers ordeal..."

            Oh come on now. That program ended in 2009 - 12 years ago. Are you really suggesting we're still feeling the effects of that? Troll harder.

        • having sex on a bike isn't for everyone, but it does gets you from point A to point B.

          How does having sex on a bicycle get you from point A to point B? (unless they are only 7 inches apart)

          --

        • You know what doesn't require either a computer or a carburetor?

          A fucking bicycle.

          Funny you should mention that. Firstly 40% of new bike sales in western Europe are E-bikes which very much do have a computer. The single most popular bike in Germany right now is a full on smart bike with integrated navigation, There's a major bicycle shortage in Europe with at least 3-6 month delays on orders for *all* bicycles other than a few pieces of crap on showroom floors (they are made in China). So far my brother in law is a cool 4 months past the promised delivery date of his Cowboy 4 bicycle du

          • I can be snarky all I want, I bought my made-in-China piece of crap in 2019, which is still better than no e-bike at all.

            • So? I bought a car in 2016. Have an internet medal for your irrelevant post.

              • I bought a car in 2016.

                Good for you, friend!

                • It is good for me. It doesn't make your post of riding a bike any less ignorant, or the fact you already own one any more relevant.

                  Reality: If you want a bike or a car you can't get either. Be a Moran, don't be a Moron.

      • ... your carbureted â69 Mustang. I donâ(TM)t ...

        Please don't barf on your keyboard, that spreads COVID. And it makes you look like an idiot.

    • It is not just the main computer. They would have to make a car without electronic sensors. Everything from pumps to the brakes use sensors. They would have to redesign the entire car from scratch.

      • We'd have to use fluidic computers [inquisition.ca] in order to bypass the need for "chips".

      • Maybe it is time to redesign the entire car from scratch? Maybe it should be an electric car and maybe it should use discrete components that anyone can repair? Sorry. What was I thinking?
        • Can you design a whole car from scratch in a few months? Given time any car maker could. Given less than a year? No. The problem is not the car cannot be repaired; it is literally missing parts that no one can get.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by JBMcB ( 73720 )

          Maybe it should be an electric car and maybe it should use discrete components that anyone can repair?

          You mean, instead of using a single custom VLSI chip, use an off the shelf CPU along with hundreds of discreet support chips? Because that's a dumb idea, almost nobody makes anything like that any more except for specialized programmable logic controllers, that are very expensive, and it would be much less reliable as there would be hundreds of points of failure. It would also weigh more, reducing fuel economy, which negates the entire purpose of having a computer-controlled engine.

          • Part of the problem is the fact that automakers use very old chips in terms of technology. As such they use older nodes to produce and in smaller batches. The main reasons these older are they have known reliability and features. They are also very cheap (because they are older technology). Many automakers cancelled their orders last year due to the pandemic. The problem with their shortage is that chip makers are having issues currently with making enough product themselves due to their own parts shortage.

      • They would have to make a car without electronic sensors.

        Has that ever been done before?

        • Decades ago cars did not use these sensors; however, that was before some of the mandated features cars have today. Airbags and ABS probably never work without sensors. Emissions also are affected.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Yes, plenty of older cars were made without any computerised parts.
      The problem is these designs don't meet modern emissions or safety regulations so in most countries it's not legal to register a new vehicle that does not comply with current standards. While it may well be possible to engineer a vehicle that meets these standards while using analog components, this is something that no vehicle manufacturer has done so it would require significant development effort.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        So the obvious answer is suspend the damn regulations. The market optimizes around the rules, the policy makers make the rules. The present supply chain issues we face are NOT due to COVID, a pandemic was always going to happen the issues are the making of governments playing games with regulations and trade agreements over the course of half a century.

        Give the automakers a decade long window where they can crank out anything that would have meet safety and emissions standards for the 1985 year. For many o

        • I imagine driving the current fleet of cars longer is a much better alternative than going back to a fleet of cars from 1985.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Rohlfi ( 8664689 )
          The car manufacturers are using chips designed decades ago that are a waste production. No chip manufacturer is willing to build a fabrication facility that costs a billion to make chips for cars that will no longer be produced in 5 years. The industries needs to evolve, we don't need to remove regulations that let companies keep exploiting the status quo. Government is not playing games, its the manufacturers, we would be still be driving horse and buggy if the regresssives were in control, since it's su

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

        Not just emissions and safety... my truck has a 3.5L V6 that makes 375hp and 470 ft-lb of torque, does 0-60 in under 6 seconds, but also (when it's not working as hard as the above two use cases) gets 20+ mpg while hauling its 5500lb self plus my fat ass, my wife, and kids around.

        You're not doing any of that without a computer to control the engine.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Yes, plenty of older cars were made without any computerised parts.
        The problem is these designs don't meet modern emissions or safety regulations so in most countries it's not legal to register a new vehicle that does not comply with current standards. While it may well be possible to engineer a vehicle that meets these standards while using analog components, this is something that no vehicle manufacturer has done so it would require significant development effort.

        You forget about the convenience a modern

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

      > Can't they use an analog engine?

      Yup. The same way you can just simulate ABS brakes by pumping your foot 10 times a second.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Without computers no combustion engines would meet emissions standards.

    • You do know the "chip" shortage effects more than computer chips right? It's diodes its transistors its basic shit like resistors and caps

      So unless you're going to re-design every system in a car back to mechanical systems from the 60's its a rough time

  • Failure to adapt. (Score:3)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Thursday September 30, 2021 @10:50PM (#61849883)

    The issue here is not that there is a shortage of a specific part, it's that they decline to take measures to adapt by using that parts that are available. Love 'em or hate 'em, Tesla managed to adapt and substitute parts even though it meant component redesign and testing.

    My understanding is Tesla is constantly improving their designs of the same car models while other companies just churn out new car designs annually. It makes sense why they are completely unprepared to adapt and it should be a cautionary tale.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by labnet ( 457441 )

      Good post.
      It could easily cost $1M to change even a small microprocessor in a big car company. QA, supply chain, compliance testing etc etc.
      Its all there to reduce risk because the cost of recalls is Huge.
      Tesla seem to be able to apply much better risk management to engineering change control. but good luck implementing Tesla culture in any 50+ year old car company. Not going to happen.

      • $1m is nothing.

        Compared to the already billions they have to fork out for all the recalls they had in the past.

        Cost 1M, do it, cut 1M from the CEOs pay.

    • The issue here is not that there is a shortage of a specific part, it's that they decline to take measures to adapt by using that parts that are available.

      It's even dumber than that. Using old parts is fine when you contractually obligate your suppliers to supply them, but they didn't. The bean counters saw a dip in car sales and decided to cancel their orders in the name of Just-In-Time inventory management. Oh crap the car sales picked up again we better place orders again... wait what do you mean you shutdown the production line used to make this? What do you mean you have other customers to serve first? We are the car industry and thus the mostest importe

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

        There's definitely an element of the above in play, but your explanation above is quite silent on why literally every other fucking industry on the planet is facing a chip shortage. Are network switch manufacturers pushing deliveries 6-12 months out because of the auto industry? Is Apple forecasting $4 billion less revenue due to chip shortages because of the auto industry?

        Everything that uses a semiconductor is facing a shortage.

        • I think you misunderstand. There were fabs that literally had production lines running exclusively for car parts using outdated equipment to produce chips with node sizes no one else was using. When the car companies cancelled those order so they didn't end up with stockpiling. Those production lines were literally shutdown. Like shutdown shutdown. Dismantled. Gone. Replaced with something that actually had demand.

          You can only string suppliers along with a fixed order at a regular rate. If you suddenly stop

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That's because Tesla is even now a relatively low volume manufacturer.

      The parts Opel is missing are long availability, with very well tested and characterized code that they are confident they can rely on putting in millions of vehicles and not face expensive recalls.

      Tesla is just winging it, and it comes back to bite them in the arse now and then. Like with the MMC failures that affect every single vehicle made before they switched to a more robust part. It's lucky they were only making high end models in

      • That's because Tesla is even now a relatively low volume manufacturer.

        In Q2 2021, Tesla produced ~200k vehicles. Opel produced ~300k vehicles per quarter in 2016 so unless they have recently scaled up then it is a comparable volume.

        Tesla is just winging it, and it comes back to bite them in the arse now and then.

        I wouldn't characterize constantly improving the design as "winging it" but yes, they have had some engineering failures in the past.

        Like with the MMC failures that affect every single vehicle made before they switched to a more robust part.

        IIRC, that was a software issue where kernel logging was enabled when it shouldn't have been, an OTA software update prevented further writing to the device, and no recall was required.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Opel is just a sub-brand though. The parts in those cars are used by many other brands and even other manufacturers, e.g. Bosch make many car parts that go into many different vehicles.

          Anything Tesla specific is relatively low volume by car standards.

          • They develop their own cars and they were recently (2017) sold to a new parent company so nothing about them is inextricably linked. It was within their power and purview to adapt to using different components but didn't. I'm not sure why you think they would be unable to act on their own.

  • Though it is a supply and demand issue for all segments. I think that car manufacturers faced a double whammy as, right after people stopped buying cars because of the pandemic lockdowns, they stopped adding to their inventory of chips, then chip manufacturers had their issue of decreased demand following in addition to pandemic restrictions for the workplace, and having a workforce that experience COVID-19 infections. And that's when people started buying devices for their stay at home activities, ones t

  • These articles are getting old.
    There are very simple economics of supply and demand at work here folks. Demand for the mainstay chips faltered, so chip suppliers shifted their production lines over to more profitable unit types. Now there is a higher cost needed to entice manufacturers to recut some of their lines back over to the prior chips (there is a cost sink to every transition, and someone needs to pay the piper since many manufacturers took a bet they could make bank on these new fab processes). The

    • Sounds feasible. Most mass media make a lot of money from car industry advertising. Maybe the car industry is angling to encourage politicians to intervene on their behalf? They've been pretty shady about their supply chains to the US govt so far.
  • Opel? I didn't know that was still a company.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Rohlfi ( 8664689 )
      Peugeot (PSA) bought Open and Vauxhaul from GM in 2017. Fiat Chrysler and PSA Group merged to create Stellantis in January 2021.
  • Would reducing the dependence on silicon be a good idea? Just how much computer technology does a car actually need? They'd certainly be simpler & more serviceable/less wasteful.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sinij ( 911942 )
      Simpler cars are not feasible due to: regulations (emission, safety) require multiple controller networks (e.g. O2 sensors - ECU - injectors are all control circuits, speed and position sensor and traction control CU), customer demand - people seems to deeply care about infotaiment and a number and size of screens, when a docking station for a phone would have done a better job.
  • Chip shortage of current-generation fabs is understandable. COVID disruptions, bitcoin spike resulting in GPU demand and so on. What I don't understand is why automotive CUs, that on gasoline cars are not at all sensitive to power consumption, cannot use old fabs?

  • Cars use all sorts of semiconductor chips: processors, DRAM, flash, sensors, display drivers, opamps, and on and on. Some are digital, many are analog, they come from all sorts of different processes and fabs.

    Anyone have any idea what sorts of chips are the problem? "Chips" is such a broad catagory.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Rohlfi ( 8664689 )
      I 've heard that the chip manufacturers outsource the fab work to small old factories. None of the manufacturers want to build a $1B fab facility for chips that are decades old; likely the analog processors, maybe old DRAM too. Older sensors are still high enough frequency for most uses. The manufacturers just need to join the 21st century. I expect a Pi4 is more powerful than many of cars using this old gear.

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