Is the Coronavirus Just Getting Better at Airborne Transmission? (yahoo.com) 203
A New York Times science/global health reporter reminds us that "Newer variants of the coronavirus like Alpha and Delta are highly contagious, infecting far more people than the original virus."
But then they add that "Two new studies offer a possible explanation: The virus is evolving to spread more efficiently through air." Most researchers now agree that the coronavirus is mostly transmitted through large droplets that quickly sink to the floor and through much smaller ones, called aerosols, that can float over longer distances indoors and settle directly into the lungs, where the virus is most harmful. The new studies don't fundamentally change that view. But the findings signal the need for better masks in some situations, and indicate that the virus is changing in ways that make it more formidable.
"This is not an Armageddon scenario," said Vincent Munster, a virologist at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who led one of the new studies. "It is like a modification of the virus to more efficient transmission, which is something I think we all kind of expected, and we now see it happening in real time." Dr. Munster's team showed that small aerosols traveled much longer distances than larger droplets and the Alpha variant was much more likely to cause new infections via aerosol transmission. The second study found that people infected with Alpha exhaled about 43 times more virus into tiny aerosols than those infected with older variants.
The studies compared the Alpha variant with the original virus or other older variants. But the results may also explain why the Delta variant is so contagious — and why it displaced all other versions of the virus...
At least in some crowded spaces, people may want to consider switching to more protective masks, said Don Milton, an aerosol expert at the University of Maryland who led the research. "Given that it seems to be evolving towards generating aerosols better, then we need better containment and better personal protection," Dr. Milton said of the virus. "We are recommending people move to tighter-fitting masks."
But then they add that "Two new studies offer a possible explanation: The virus is evolving to spread more efficiently through air." Most researchers now agree that the coronavirus is mostly transmitted through large droplets that quickly sink to the floor and through much smaller ones, called aerosols, that can float over longer distances indoors and settle directly into the lungs, where the virus is most harmful. The new studies don't fundamentally change that view. But the findings signal the need for better masks in some situations, and indicate that the virus is changing in ways that make it more formidable.
"This is not an Armageddon scenario," said Vincent Munster, a virologist at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who led one of the new studies. "It is like a modification of the virus to more efficient transmission, which is something I think we all kind of expected, and we now see it happening in real time." Dr. Munster's team showed that small aerosols traveled much longer distances than larger droplets and the Alpha variant was much more likely to cause new infections via aerosol transmission. The second study found that people infected with Alpha exhaled about 43 times more virus into tiny aerosols than those infected with older variants.
The studies compared the Alpha variant with the original virus or other older variants. But the results may also explain why the Delta variant is so contagious — and why it displaced all other versions of the virus...
At least in some crowded spaces, people may want to consider switching to more protective masks, said Don Milton, an aerosol expert at the University of Maryland who led the research. "Given that it seems to be evolving towards generating aerosols better, then we need better containment and better personal protection," Dr. Milton said of the virus. "We are recommending people move to tighter-fitting masks."
All pathogens evolve to be more contagious (Score:2)
Non-story.
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How can you say this is a non-story, this is ground-breaking, we should all stop wearing masks immediately!!
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Ground breaking? I think I'd file it under "bed-wetting".
"Good" transparent mask wanted (Score:2)
You're feeding a troll.
But while we're on the much dreaded topic, here's my business plan.
1. Make a good transparent mask.
2. Sell lots of masks.
3. PROFIT!
By "good transparent" I don't mean plexiglass garbage that the air goes around. I mean at least KN-95, but made of some type of transparent and porous plastic. Heaven knows that we have enough kinds of plastic to work and play with. Good may include visible borders or something so people can see I'm still being polite and cautious even if I prefer that the
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1. Make a good transparent mask.
Like this one? [vyzrtech.com]
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As regards the quality of the masks, I think a true N-95 can prevent incoming viral particles from getting me, but only if I'm really careful and skilled using the mask. In contrast, even masks that are somewhat worse than KN-95 can block most of the outgoing viral particles, so once again, if both of us are masked, then it's a good thing for us and a bad thing for the virus.
True. With that said, though, there's really not a shortage of medical-grade masks; there never was a shortage except at the very beginning.
Surgical masks are handed out for free at the entrance to every Walmart. EUA-certified KN95 masks have been easily available on Amazon for the entire duration of the pandemic. Heck, even NIOSH-certified N95 masks (3M) are readily available in bulk at this point.
So why in heck are people still putting themselves at unnecessary risk by wearing garbage cloth masks inste
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Maybe I'm more confused than usual, but I think the KN-95 isn't nearly as good as an N-95, though I don't know the details of the differences. However my understanding is that to prevent incoming it doesn't matter much because most people will screw it up when they take the mask off and touch the outside of the mask. And I'm pretty sure the N-95s are much more expensive.
However I suspect the "good" transparent masks will also be somewhat more expensive. However I'd be willing to pay a moderate difference. P
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Maybe I'm more confused than usual, but I think the KN-95 isn't nearly as good as an N-95, though I don't know the details of the differences
In terms of filtration, KN95 masks and N95 masks are functionally equivalent. N95 masks are generally considered better because they have straps that go all the way around your head, which makes them fit a bit more snugly than the ear loops on KN95 masks. However, with one of those ten-cent plastic mask straps around the back of your head, that difference should pretty much disappear, assuming you use a notch that makes it tight enough.
This assumes that the KN95 masks are actually legitimate, of course, w
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In addition to the ear loop issue, the cheap KN95s also have less good fit around the nose bridge than something like a 3M Aura N95 which has a less flimsy metal strip and foam lining for better fit to the skin. On a cheap stock KN95, I can feel air coming out at the nose bridge while exhaling, and glasses fog.
Back before vaccines were available, I modified cheap KN95s by gluing on a 3D printed nose strip custom-fitted to my nose shape, strengthening the ear loop attachment to the mask with Shoe Goo, and co
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In addition to the ear loop issue, the cheap KN95s also have less good fit around the nose bridge than something like a 3M Aura N95 which has a less flimsy metal strip and foam lining for better fit to the skin.
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the nose seal. Tightening the straps on a KN95 helps a lot with that, though, as does shaping it correctly. And there's a wide range of metal strip strengths, too. Some of my KN95s have a nose strip that feels about as solid as the N95s, and others don't. So a lot of it comes down to the choice of manufacturer.
On the flip side, some of the newest N95 masks I've gotten have a plastic strip instead of a metal one. Those don't feel like they seal nearly as well as the older, meta
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Blah, blah, blah (some science), blah, blah then clear quote supporting the "masks don't work" ideology.
How can you say this is a non-story, this is ground-breaking, we should all stop wearing masks immediately!!
Huh? Saying that people should move to N95 or KN95 masks (which are readily available) supports the "masks don't work" idiocy? What the actual f**k are you talking about?
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Maybe COVID causes memory loss too? (Score:5, Informative)
> they came up with that stupid 2 mask talking point.
(1) Fauci said 2 masks
Fauci: "... it just makes common sense that it would be likely effective..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
(2) This is not cloth vs N95, CNBC talks about triple cloth masks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
(3) NPR talks about 3 masks
"Well, let's think about that. Masks block contagious droplets that an infected person breathes out. They also offer a measure of protection for a wearer who's not infected.
So yes, in theory, two is better than one and three is even better, says biosecurity expert Raina MacIntyre, who researches mask effectiveness at the University of New South Wales in Sydney."
https://www.npr.org/sections/g... [npr.org]
Re:Maybe COVID causes memory loss too? (Score:4, Funny)
Fuck it, we're doing five masks.
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just stop breathing, that will surely stop covid
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What about farts? Has anyone checked to see if an infected person can transmit COVID from farts? If it's in our bodies couldn't it be in our flatulence? If we're going to 3-7 masks eventually then won't we need some kind of "COVID Diaper" to catch that as well?
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Since Nestle and Coca Cola already sell you tap water in bottles, they will certainly be delighted to establish a similar $$$ business for breathing gas tanks. A mandate to use such where ever people could meet other humans could boost that promising new economy.
I think the main reason doctors are calling (Score:2)
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There is a little-noted exception: The CDC explicitly says not to combine KN95 masks with a second mask ( https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru... [cdc.gov] ). They don't explain why. (My own guess is that adding a second mask on top of a 95 mask might make the 95 mask more humid, which could damage the electrostatic filtering.)
Re: All pathogens evolve to be more contagious (Score:5, Funny)
> But go ahead and wear three if it makes you feel better.
I only wear 3 masks in public because I don't think people are ready for 4 masks.
However, when sitting at home alone I wear 4 masks to strengthen/condition my ears from the elastic tension, so that when the time comes I can work up to 5 masks.
One day I hope to be as strong as these guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: All pathogens evolve to be more contagious (Score:2)
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It's almost like it has a plan. ;-)
Re: All pathogens evolve to be more contagious (Score:2)
"It" being the mindless media monster that latched onto scarebait as a money maker? Sure.
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You missed the story. Everyone knows that Delta is more contagious than other variants of Coronavirus. The question is, why is it more contagious? You don't know because you dismissed the story without reading it.
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Nope. That a common mode, but some pathogens evolve to be more durable, others evolve to provoke less of an immune reaction, some evolve to be less harmful. There are lots of choices, and which happens tends to depend on which makes the pathogen more successful, though it partially depends on luck, too.
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All these cause the virus to be more contagious, if more people don't die then get less sick will spread it more. The changes are random, but the successful changes spread more. If everyone starts wearing masks, the virus will evolve to be more contagious to people wearing masks.
Re: All pathogens evolve to be more contagious (Score:2)
Please explain that to the "engineered in a lab" knuckleheads.
No - WHO *ignored* airborne transmission (Score:3, Informative)
Coronavirus has always been airborne.
A March 5, 2020 --nineteen months ago! -- tweet from Virginia Tech Engineering Professor Linsey Marr: Let's talk about #airborne transmission of #SARSCOV2 and other viruses. [twitter.com]
What happened is that the World Health Organization squandered 18 months downplaying the possibility of Coronavirus being airborne. Here's a July 4, 2020 NY Time article about that:
239 Experts With One Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne The W.H.O. has resisted mounting evidence that viral particles floating indoors are infectious, some scientists say. The agency maintains the research is still inconclusive. [nytimes.com]
The World Health Organization and the public health officials who listened to WHO are now all trying to save face, hence their new claim that coronavirus evolved.
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You have no idea how glad I am to see you post this. I've been saying the same thing since last year and the message keeps falling on deaf ears.
We have had numerous well-documented cases of superspreading events since early 2020 in which no other causal mechanism for the transmission of the virus could be plausible. There was the Korean call center, in which people who were sitting far away from the index case got infected; the choir singing at a church and infecting people not sitting nearby; the restaur
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My my. (Score:5, Funny)
Putin's army is in full force today.
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Case in point.
The uk government .... (Score:5, Insightful)
recommends that you only wear masks if you really want to.
So, since the end of 90% of restrictions, I forget when - "freedom day" it was called, although there was no celebration - mask wearing in public places has fallen off a cliff.
Being a "pussy", a cautious "scaredy cat", I still wear my mask in public spaces and just actively avoid people not wearing them.
Heck, I'll avoid a supermarket isle or checkout if there's folks without masks.
As for the increase in people coughing, spluttering and sneezing - run away!
I'm in my 50's, I've been double jabbed, but as a ex-smoker (yeah, I'm an idiot), I really don't want to risk catching a virus like Covid-19.
It's not something I want to add to my life achievements.
But that's ok, all those of you who choose not to wear masks - it's your choice. It's your choice to spew aerosols out of your mouth and potentially infect others, even though a mask is such a small thing to ask you to wear for like 10 minutes of your day.
WANKERS.
Re:The uk government .... (Score:5, Interesting)
like 10 minutes of your day
Well, yeah, if that's it, then sure. Not an unreasonable imposition. But if you work in retail, or an airport, or healthcare, or any of the other "essential" industries, that's 8-10 hours a day. Screw it. I've had full vaccination since January. I got my booster in September. I've been exposed on numerous (at least six that I know of) occasions and not contracted it. Masks are not evil; they're probably a major factor in why flu season basically didn't happen in 2020. But given how many people walk around with them down around their chin, or at least below the nose, and they're just crappy cloth masks anyway, it's far more theater than therapy. You know why surgeons wear masks? Not to protect themselves from the patient - if you want to protect yourself meaningfully, you need to be wearing a properly fitted N95 at the very least. It's to keep them from coughing or sneezing accidentally into the sterile field. And those, while not N95, are actually designed for the purpose and fitted at each wearing.
Re: The uk government .... (Score:2)
I think the major factors regarding the flu are the distancing and people with any symptoms staying at home, something that is normally (before Corona) often frowned upon.
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Are you going to continue with this "Avoid people who don't have masks and be abusive about them" policy for the rest of the your life and if not then what criteria (given that the virus is set to become endemic) will you use to decide when to stop?
Considering people are harassing a doctor [imgur.com] who said people should wear masks and be vaccinated by standing outside his home with bullhorns and claiming they are there to arrest him, the abuse of the willingly unvaccinated will continue for some time.
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How about if we don't want to look like faceless morons all the time, and are not willing to risk damage to the economy?
Doctors, nurses, a whole host of medical personnel, teachers, rescue personnel, restaurant staff, truckers, every job category has had people die from covid, 700,000+ and counting so far in 18 months because morons like you are more worried about the economy than people.
Thank you for showing how "pro-life" you are.
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Name one freedom which has been taken away from you.
I can think of a few:
1. Freedom to exercise comfortably in a gym, given the pressure drop that I've experienced with some kinds of mask.
2. Freedom to order fast food without buying, registering, insuring, and driving a motor vehicle, given many restaurants' refusal to serve pedestrians or cyclists in the drive-thru lane or to open an indoor pickup area.
3. Freedom to take flights or motor coach trips that are longer than a reasonable person can tolerate going nothing by mouth (NPO), given the US TSA's requir
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Masks make zero difference.
Said by someone with Misinformation as a username. Username checks out.
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It would seem that a more rational assumption is that someone wearing a mask in more likely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2
That's quite strange logic.
Makes sense (Score:2)
Between social distancing, mask wearing, and now vaccinations, we've been reducing the paths for infections so only the strongest (the most virulent) virus survive. In essence, we're concentrating covid's ability to transmit, infect, and kill and so long as people ignore the science, they'll keep dying [imgur.com].
It's why we've had twice as many people die from covid in 18 months in the U.S. than have been killed in the 10 years of civil war in Syria (~350,000 dead [voanews.com]).
But good news, those who are 60 or older and got co
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You will be shocked to find out that more people in the US died of heart disease in the last five months than have been killed in Syria for the last 10 years. And that happens every year. And yeah, speaking age the median age of covid death is 80 years old. But you have a CNN link so you are not a rational person.
Which heart disease? Heart disease is a spectrum of ailments realted to age, diet, physical activity, smoking, weight and ethnic factors. Pick one of those to do an apples-to-apples comparison.
Considering CNN is reporting what other people are reporting, you know, what the experts studying this are saying, they're doing exactly what the media should do, report the facts. But then, when you're used to propaganda, facts can be anathema to your mental health. It's why people who watch/listen to the Fox tab
Evolution does not occur to do something (Score:5, Insightful)
The virus is evolving to spread more efficiently
The virus is not evolving TO spread more efficiently. This sentence makes evolution look like an intended, meditated decision. The virus evolves, probably randomly, and some variants may happen to spread more efficiently than the previous ones. That is why those variants probably become dominant.
"The selfish gene" is a popular book that explained these concepts some decades ago. I recommend it to the interested reader, it made me change my mind.
Re:Evolution does not occur to do something (Score:4, Funny)
The virus is evolving to spread more efficiently
The virus is not evolving TO spread more efficiently. This sentence makes evolution look like an intended, meditated decision. The virus evolves, probably randomly, and some variants may happen to spread more efficiently than the previous ones. That is why those variants probably become dominant.
"The selfish gene" is a popular book that explained these concepts some decades ago. I recommend it to the interested reader, it made me change my mind.
You're lucky it's not evolving to eliminate pointless pedants.
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Touché! ^_^'
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The virus is evolving to spread more efficiently
The virus is evolving, and the evolution is in the direction of more efficient spread, therefore the virus is evolving to spread more efficiently. No, the virus isn't making any decisions about whether to evolve or in what direction, but the phrase doesn't say that it is, just that it's evolving and what the effect of that evolution is.
Opportunity (Score:3)
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It seems to me that this pandemic would be a good time to mandate high-efficiency particulate air filters in air-conditioners & ventilation systems (that recirculate air) https://www.physiciansweekly.c... [www.physiciansweekly.c] . Not just to reduce the spread of COVID-19 but also any new SARS type viruses as well as other aerosol-borne pathogens, e.g. flu & colds, & dust-borne bacterial pathogens. Many air-conditioner designs already have spaces in which to insert such filters & retrofitting ventilation systems shouldn't be too difficult either. There's also effective standalone units for enclosed spaces that don't have either.
HEPA filters are overkill and unless designed for them, most existing systems can't handle them. Even those that can will have greatly reduced air flow, which is bad for removing the virus from the air. You don't need to eliminate the virus. You just need to reduce the load. Filters around MERV 13 can do that.
That is alpha, meanwhile delta ... (Score:2)
This study was on Alpha (the UK variant).
For Delta, there was a paper that did replication studies, and found that Delta replicates much faster initially than the other variants they tested (I think it was the ancestral Wuhan variant, and Alpha).
Those findings imply that a person will be more infectious much sooner than the previous variants, and it explains why Delta has replaced Alpha in many places, where the latter did replace the previous variants.
I can't find the study now ... unfortunately ...
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Found i
Star Trek: DS9 did it! /SouthPark (Score:2)
BASHIR: If this virus is present within a large enough segment of the population, it could mean...
SISKO: What is it, Doctor?
BASHIR: I just took an air sample.
(Puts his tricorder results on a monitor)
SISKO: The virus?
BASHIR: It's mutated into an airborne variety.
ODO: Which means?
BASHIR: Which means the whole station is infected.
Corellation is not causation (Score:2)
The other possibility is that the virus was always good at airborne transmission and all the goofy attempts by authoritarians to control it were a colossal waste of time and money.
Even mask Nazis aren't going to be willing to wear (Score:2)
Re:Remember back when... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that people just need to accept that you can't win every scenario. My country went through some extremely harsh lockdowns, and thanks to that we got the total cases to 0... And then what? Are we just supposed to close shop and wait eternally? People clamored because the economy was dying, borders reopened, and now we're battling the 5th (or was it 6th?) wave.
The fight was extremely noble and people put a ton of effort and work into having a semblance of control over the pandemic. But sometimes, you just can't have it all. You can't have a global economy without also having global pandemics. You can't having millions of people in megacities and also have them walking around in perfect grids of 2m of distance each. You can't have a healthy difference of opinions and ideas, but also have everyone applying your commands the moment you issue them, especially when these commands are often opposed.
Basically, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Diseases thrive when you give them the perfect petri dish. Modern society is the perfect petri dish. Lots of effort is being spent to make modern society workable, but at some point its also healthy to ask "Is this really what we need"? If you're building your home on the path of a river, and wondering why you're getting flooded every season, maybe the whole thing wasnt such a workable idea, after all.
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No. You are supposed to vaccinate as close to 100% of your citizens as you can. Then open up.
What is most unfortunate is that if all countries actually did what your country did, covid would have been basically eradicated. Between vaccines that were 99% effective against early covid, and lockdown, there was almost no chance that it would have survived. But unfortunately SOME countries' leaders tried to use their country as a petri dish, even going so far as to lie about the virus as being nothing but a
Re:Remember back when... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a balancing thing, keeping as open as possible without over whelming the medical system. I look at my neighbouring Province of Alberta, who declared the pandemic over in the summer. No more testing, no more contact tracing, no more quarantining if exposed and no other restrictions. Their ICU units are at 180% and the only reason they have any spare capacity is due to people dying. Their Doctors and Nurses are totally burnt out and really dreading having to triage and decide who gets any care and who is left to die. All other surgery etc basically cancelled and you better hope not to need hospital care due to lets say a car accident and if you have cancer and need that tumor removed, well tough as there are Covid patients occupying the room you need.
Once the medical system is overwhelmed, things get bad for anyone who has any kind of health issues, even a broken leg.
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Though they are having a wave and there are definitely sick people and hospitalizations.
There is an over exaggeration of the ICU bed occupancy being done by the government and media.
https://www.jccf.ca/alberta-go... [www.jccf.ca]
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Why would Jason Kenny lie when it means losing his job and likely a NDP government getting elected next election? More likely the Justice Centre would lie so Kenny can keep his job.
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According to https://www.alberta.ca/stats/c... [alberta.ca] the average in ICU is 56, and while the peak is in the older population, there is enough at 30-39 and even more so at 40-49 to belie your message that it is only old people in ICU.
That cancer patient may well be refused care if it doesn't seem too immediate.
You're completely misunderstanding the purpose (Score:3)
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Delta is 6 times less dangerous than Alpha which was also less dangerous than the original one from Wuhan according to UK data.
My observation from UK data has been that, it might increase hospitalizations, not from it being more dangerous but more transmissible, causing more cases.
Which would not lend to the conclusion of your statement above.
Do you have a source for the data that indicates that Delta puts 20% of its victims in the hospital?
Id like to consult it to see if I might be wrong.
Thanks.
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Delta is 6 times less dangerous than Alpha which was also less dangerous than the original one from Wuhan according to UK data.
No, see, that's exactly the opposite of what researchers are saying [thelancet.com]. From that paper:
"The Cox regression analysis for time to hospital admission found that S gene-positive cases were associated with an increased risk of COVID-19 hospital admission: hazard ratio (HR) 185 (95% CI 139–247) when compared to S gene-negative cases, after adjusting for age, sex, deprivation, temporal trend, and comorbidities. A greater number of COVID-19 relevant comorbidities increased the risk of COVID-19 hospital admission (appendix p 3)."
For clarity, about 97 to 99% of "delta variant" viruses are s-gene-positive. The previous strain in the UK, alpha, was s-gene-negative. So on a per-case basis, delta is almost twice as likely to land you in the hospital as alpha.
So I'm going to assume that you're also wrong about alpha being less deadly than the Wuhan strain unless you can provide some citations.
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Had we all gotten it over with, who knows, maybe we wouldn't have to be worried about any variant because we all would have a base immunity.
"All"? You mean the survivors, of which there'd probably be much fewer.
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The fact that there has been ZERO deaths as a result of SARS-CoV-2 infection is also a known (though there have been a number of deaths from having a defective immune response -- a SYNDROME called ARDS).
Most COVID deaths are caused by a defective immune response, but ARDS is just a small fraction of those deaths. You forgot all the heart attacks, strokes, and sudden kidney failures.
However, arguing that those deaths weren't caused by the virus is just plain silly. The immune response is triggered by the virus, ergo the virus caused the death. Immune overreaction is how almost all viruses kill people, with the possible exception of hemorrhagic fevers. By your ridiculous standard, flu doesn't kill people
Re:Remember back when... (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, it was the DOCTORS and VIRAL IMMUNOLOGISTS who were saying to shut down for a bit. Not just a few commie leftists. Nearly all the people who are actually trained experts.
From what I understand, viruses that hop from animals to humans start out deadly, and as they evolve the become 1) more infectious and 2) less lethal. Both happen AT THE SAME TIME typically. Because, from an evolutionary perspective, killing your host quickly is actually a pretty counterproductive thing to do for a virus. So, the primary purpose of the initial lockdowns was to buy time to develop a vaccine (which we did) , antivirals (which we did), and to just allow viral evolution to take it's course.
Whether the economic damage was worth it? That's a valid debate to have. But the scientists are almost certainly correct - skipping the lockdowns and masks entirely would probably have killed an extra few million people in the US alone. And who knows how many worldwide. Denying that is for idiots, ignorants and trolls.
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Whether the economic damage was worth it?
There were a lot of unknowns. We were seeing numbers like 5% of people catching the disease were dying. If that were the case, then locking down would definitely be worth it.
After more data came out, we realized it wasn't as deadly as we had initially worried. But the unknowns justified a little extra caution. It could have been much worse.
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Whether the economic damage was worth it?
There were a lot of unknowns. We were seeing numbers like 5% of people catching the disease were dying. If that were the case, then locking down would definitely be worth it.
After more data came out, we realized it wasn't as deadly as we had initially worried. But the unknowns justified a little extra caution. It could have been much worse.
The difference between 1% or so and 5% is a big reduction, but that still makes it orders of magnitude worse than just about any other virus in my lifetime other than ebola (which thankfully isn't particularly contagious).
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1% of the people who catch covid aren't dying. Measles is worse than covid (fortunately vaccination rates for measles is a lot higher).
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Evolutionary pressure is to become more infectious and to spread before making the host so sick that they're no longer spreading it, whether through death or just being so sick everyone stays away. Corona is weird as it does much of its spreading before the host becomes very sick, so there is little to no pressure to evolve to being less deadly, just to be more infectious and to be better at penetrating the hosts cells.
You just have to look at how fast Delta has become dominant, way more infectious and slig
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There's no evolutionary pressure for a virus to become "less lethal" when the carrier is contagious long before the disease advances to a possibly lethal point. If you infect everyone around you on day #6, it makes no difference if you drop dead on day #15. Plenty of viruses never became less dangerous as a result (e.g. smallpox). What's worse, the evolutionary changes that make a virus more infectious can also make the disease more severe. This may be what is happening with some COVID-19 variants - they ma
Re: Remember back when... (Score:5, Interesting)
Meh. Why am I even responding. As I said, anyone whos a covid denier at this point are idiots, ignorants, or trolls. I stand by that statement. I know youre not dumb or ignorant, so you must be deliberately trolling.
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Im done with this. Youre not gonnna change your mind at this point. Science says one thing. You think differently. Fine. Just please earn your Darwin award somewhere far away from me.You can have the last word.
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Re:Remember back when... (Score:5, Insightful)
"The thing is, it was the DOCTORS and VIRAL IMMUNOLOGISTS who were saying to shut down for a bit. Not just a few commie leftists. Nearly all the people who are actually trained experts."
Now, there is the root cause of the problem. If instead of listening to "Doctors and VIral Immunologists" (whatever those are) and instead listened to the "Carpenters Union", everyone would have built an extension onto their house instead; if instead you had listened to the Infantry Troops (the Army), you would have been busy digging ditches to take cover in.
The point is that if the only tool you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. This is an inherent problem with "experts".
Huh? Why would you listen to what a carpenter or soldier thinks about a disease? Do you also go around asking for carpentry or military strategy advice from your doctor?
Experts get to be experts by knowing as much as they can about a particular field. Expecting someone in a different field to know better than they do about how to solve a problem in their field is the very definition of foolishness.
This is an inherent problem with Internet posters.
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What do you mean "gotten it over with"? How do you suppose that could have happened?
There are ways that could have worked, once we got decent methods of detecting the presence of the virus (which we don't really have even yet), but I can't think of any that would have been acceptable even in a dictatorship on a small island, since part of what would be needed would be a 20 day quarantine on every new arrival, where they have NO contact (outside of electronic) with anyone local. (Actually, that might not s
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Wear your stupidity with pride, I guess.
To be safe, he could put his message on a mask, but then he'd have to wear it for people to see it. The results would probably be paradoxical. :-)
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Very few hospitals are near capacity, but you would think, based on how people act, that every hospital in America was either close to capacity or at capacity. Apparently we aren't flattening the curve anymore.
The entire state of Alaska has implemented death panels for all its hospitals [go.com]. Why? Because they are at or near capacity from people infected with covid.
Over 200 children's hospitals [npr.org] are at capacity from covid.
Rising cases in Ohio [richlandsource.com] causing at capacity hospital usage to delay elective surgeries.
Northe [cbslocal.com]
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Very few hospitals are near capacity, but you would think, based on how people act, that every hospital in America was either close to capacity or at capacity. Apparently we aren't flattening the curve anymore.
The entire state of Alaska has implemented death panels for all its hospitals [go.com]. Why? Because they are at or near capacity from people infected with covid.
Over 200 children's hospitals [npr.org] are at capacity from covid.
Rising cases in Ohio [richlandsource.com] causing at capacity hospital usage to delay elective surgeries.
Northern Colorado [cbslocal.com] hospitals nearing capacity due to covid surge.
Wisconsin hospitals [wbay.com] at or near capacity due to covid surge.
Florida hospital system [nbc-2.com] nearing capacity.
You forgot Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, all of which peaked at well over 90% of ICU capacity, with the last two peaking at or above 100% of ICU capacity.
"Very few", my a**.
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It would be much worse then that. Once the health system is overwhelmed, you have infected people who would have survived with some extra oxygen now dying, as well as many others who need medical help for other reasons, even accidents, also not getting the healthcare needed to keep them alive. Then there are the ones who get disabled due to lack of care.
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"I've heard that natural immunity gives better long term protection than just the vaccine by itself"
One hears many things, the trick is to know what to believe. Usually we rely upon data. Anecdotes are almost meaningless. . .to intelligent people.
Re:booster shots if you had a breakthrough case? (Score:5, Informative)
I've heard that natural immunity gives better long term protection than just the vaccine by itself, but I haven't heard anyone break it down and give evidence on whether this applies to one of the breakthrough cases were the person is already vaccinated.
It doesn't. Being unvaccinated, you are twice as likely to contract covid a second time [cdc.gov] than the vaccinated. Further, being vaccinated prevented hospitalizations from covid in the highest risk age groups.
But let's use the words from Nebraska Medicine [nebraskamed.com]:
The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.
More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies
Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity
Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccinatio
So there you go. Cold, hard facts for you to ignore so you can continue to spread your bullshit.
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So let me be the first to offer you a hand down from your high
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Damn, you caught us. Now we'll have to invest in a totally new Conspiracy. Tell you what, when we decide upon what it is, we'll announce it here so you can breathlessly tell Fox Spews.
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1: we manage to develop and deploy vaccines remarkably quickly ( from ckassudfication of the virus to about 1/3 of the world population in about 2 years)
2: a rather long period of full or partial lockdowns and other restrictions pretty much globally.
What we need to do know to make shore we ceep this pathogen under control is to get the
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One small correction -- you need to make sure that everyone complies with receiving boosters every 5 or 6 months, because as some of the most fully vaccinated countries are now finding empirically and at huge scale, and as noted theoretically early on, mutations under evolutionary pressure will continue to produce variants, some more deadly than the original.
But -- and this honestly isn't trolling -- we also MUST accept a new global security system whereby all travel both internationally and domestically (d
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How is that possible
Through under reporting in a poor, rural population like everywhere else with a poor, rural population.
Re: Delta Variant came from India... (Score:2)
Re: Delta Variant came from India... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're the one cleaning yourself out of the gene pool by not being vaccinated.
I'm very, very pro-Vax (had my shot since March), but honestly we need to stop with this type of rhetoric. The vast majority of COVID infections are not killing people, vax or not. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get the vaccination, but when we make statements like the above that make it sound like you're basically going to die if you don't get the shot, then it makes us look like liars when that doesn't happen, and gives more ammo to the anti-vax crowd.
Essentially like a doomsday cult that keeps predicting the world will end on X day and that day comes and goes with no change. 2 years into the pandemic now MOST people know between 0 and 5 people personally that have died from COVID (ie people you actually know not statistics or well known people) - if your position is "YOU'RE GOING TO DIE IF YOU DON'T TAKE IT!" then your average person is going to immediately filter that out.
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A virologist is in a better position to know whether the virus is becoming, or can become, airborne. Who is more likely to know if your car engine is about to blow, a mechanic or a random dude on the street? A virologist understands the makeup of the virus, its genetics, and the viability of its packaging. If you don't know shit about viral envelopes, the chemistry of its coating, how likely it can infect lung cells, the resilience of RNA .. all those things .. how can you answer a question like "can a viru
Re: Ask slashdot (Score:2)
Would you want a bridge to be designed by an educated engineer or by a random person who has never passed a single exam on bridge design or civil engineering but thinks he knows enough and is willing to wing it?
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I think it's interesting that people choose to deprecate this question, rather than respond.