Windows 11 Might Tank Ryzen CPU Performance, AMD Warns (pcworld.com) 54
AMD said Windows 11 can cut game performance on Ryzen CPUs by 10 to 15 percent, and the operating system may not utilize AMD's "preferred core" technology, but a fix is in the works. PCWorld reports: A support note on AMD's web site published this week said Windows 11 may increase L3 cache latency a whopping threefold, which can cause slowdowns in latency sensitive applications. Lighter duty, cache-sensitive games might see a 3 percent to 5 percent hit, and lighter-duty games as e-sports titles could see frame rates drop from 10 to 15 percent. AMD also said its "preferred core" feature, which tells the operating system which core in each CPU can hit the highest clock, also doesn't work right in Windows 11. Each CPU is tested to see which core will run the fastest at the factory and is marked so the OS will dispatch tasks to that "preferred core." Since Windows 11 doesn't seem to work with it right now, any performance bump from using the best core wouldn't happen. The company said the performance cost would be most noticeable in CPUs with more than 8 cores and with TDP ratings above 65 watts.
Microsoft, destroying their own product (Score:2, Insightful)
Linux thanks you!
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Except it's not.
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Linux is much faster in most things not needing graphics. On AMD high end CPUs. [phoronix.com]
On lower end CPUs, windows remains faster for workloads needing graphics, but a more mixed bag in CPU intensive workloads where Linux remains faster by a slimmer margin [phoronix.com]. Though this an almost zen2 chip - so doesn't say much for true zen3 chips.
You just show your level of thinking when you simply say "it's not" where things are complicated and details are relevant.
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Sure, by all means link an article that says Linux is faster while showing graphs where Windows beats it in half the benchmarks, and *all* the benchmarks where preferred core and CXX matter.
Scored a beautiful own goal there. *facepalm*
Re: Microsoft, destroying their own product (Score:2)
Ummm, learn to read graphs ? Or to proceed to next page ?
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Ummm, learn to understand the benchmarks you're looking at or how to relate to the topic at hand?
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Linux has CPPC support, and AMD has provided support for their core differentiation to be added to that.
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As replied in the other thread this goes well below CPPC support which Windows 11 also has no problems with.
Re:Always the same with AMD (Score:4, Insightful)
Frankly, their stuff just sucks.
First, this is more than an AMD issue. This is a MS/AMD issue. Second, AMD is widely known as the top right now for desktop CPUs. If you want to say they suck, fine. That's your opinion. They're still objectively better than their competition in the desktop CPU market.
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Re:Always the same with AMD (Score:5, Insightful)
AMD also uses less power and generates less heat. You could also get into the fact that AMD uses better lithography and has a better architecture. However, the reality is that those really are what gives them gains on the other factors. Finally, AMD is still better than Intel right now on security.
Re: Always the same with AMD (Score:2)
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I have half a dozen AMD machines
I've built about 4 Intel and 7 AMD desktop computers for myself over the last 24 years. I would say I have a fair amount of experience. I have never had a notable stability issue with an AMD CPU, or Intel for that matter. My anecdotal evidence as just as valid as yours. AMD hasn't been without problems with their CPUs, but neither has Intel.
I'm not knocking on Intel by any of this. However, this hate on AMD is misplaced at best and unfounded at worst. Yes, if you look at the history of AMD they've had mo
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Have you *seen* the absolute shitstorm AMD has with cache hierarchy errors on 3xxx and 5xxx?
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Is that why they RMA their CPUs and the replacement works?
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AMD has had stability issues earlier, from independent third party statements. E.g. hear from an AMD supporter and mostly converted to AMD for most things : https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] . He says now most of the problems are fixed.
Many of them were not AMD problems, but that of the "ecosystem", e.g. memory manufacturers, Microsoft, game developers.
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Can use your current windows 10 up until 2025 (Score:3)
And from now to then migrate to Windows 11 at your own leisure...
Take it easy, take it slow, take it steady. No worries.
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"Can use your current windows 10 up until 2025"
Maybe by then they'll have some of the bugs fixed.
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And from now to then migrate to Windows 11 at your own leisure...
Take it easy, take it slow, take it steady. No worries.
You misspelled Linux. Other than that, yes, take it easy and slow.
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And alternate OS like Linux.
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Turning TPM off should delay the update for a whlle... Any other tips?
I'm going to have to take the plunge and try Proton soon. I just hate trying dual boot, you never know when it's going to hose the partition setup.
Many older games don't work with win10, I wonder if proton would work any better for them or if I should add a win7 partition to the mix.
Windows... (Score:3)
Windows: "The Gift That Keeps On Taking."
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Windows 11 is a Flop! (Score:1)
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Dude, WinME and Win8 were bad, but we never talk about the one that shall not be named.
Seems reasonable (Score:2)
Considering Ryzen came out a month ago and Microsoft has only been working on Windows 11 for the last week, seems reasonable they wouldnâ(TM)t be able to launch with such a novel feature implemented.
Oh waitâ¦
MS messes up again and again and again (Score:1)
The only solution to the long string of problems caused by MS is to let them die. They do not have it and, after all this time, it is clear they cannot get it.
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What's your alternative? Linux - an OS that also doesn't support core preferencing?
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Linux has had CPPC for years. And AMD has provided the code needed for their additional functionality (CPPC2). That it doesn't make much difference on Linux is another matter.
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Linux has had CPPC for years.
AMD's implementation of Ryzen is specifically not compatible with the ACPI CPPC implementation. That's the core problem here (no pun intended). That's why you need scheduler specific optimisations. AMD only introduced it on Windows because it really only benefits games which thrash one core while offloading parallel processing to others.
It's little surprise that Windows 11 killed it, several Windows 10 updates also introduced issues with it. Give it a month and it'll be back. Round and round we go.
This is a
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Except the new way of handling CPU states in Linux is letting the CPU do it. Meaning AMD CPU's are as fast as they can possibly be to change state. And what AMD uses is called CPPC2, and is also in Linux now.
So you're spreading FUD.
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Yeah except it doesn't work the same and Windows specifically is still faster in all benchmarks because while CPPC2 in Linux prioritises cores it doesn't prioritise execution units.
Stop pretending they are the same, AMD put effort into Windows optimisations. They've put very little into Linux.
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I pretend nothing. They ARE the same. CPPC2 is not fully optimized yet, sure, (and neither is Windows' version, at that) but that is because that has not been needed. Linux already manages work loads better in general.
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Linux already manages work loads better in general.
And yet performs worse. Or in the current case, equal to Windows 11. Claiming they "are the same" just shows your ignorance of the Zen architecture. Now take your own advice and stop spreading FUD. Instead, why not direct your efforts to AMD to bring the optimisations in does in Windows to Linux.
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They're already doing that. Linux performs better than Windows already. ;)
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If you want to stop spreading FUD then acknowledge the Windows 11 numbers are equal to Linux and simply aren't as optimised as Windows 10 was, or (as past performance dictates) Windows 11 likely will be in a couple of weeks.
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"Give it a month" is almost true for Linux too, just the "a month" completely depends on test results / kernel maintainers. The patches are out, being tested.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.... [phoronix.com]
https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]
Mostly just games (Score:2)
This is apparently mostly a problem for games, and only for games that are maxing out your hardware. Few workloads keep your L3 cache maxed out.
And it will be fixed soon.
So while it is true you can switch to Linux and have your L3 cache still going full speed, it won't actually solve the problem of "my windoze game has a slightly lower refresh rate."
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Given the fact that Windows is pretty much useless except for games - the proof that it's a toy OS - , I'd say it's a big problem.
And this is why... (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who gives a damn about system performance does NOT early-adopt new MS Operating Systems.
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Long live 2k3, Microshaft's best version of Winblows ever.
Nevermind that it still sucked.
Is this really that big of a deal? (Score:2)
I'm no Microsoft fan. That said, having a shaky beginning to a new OS launch is pretty much par for the course in MS land. This is why production systems in most businesses don't jump on the latest OS the second it's released.
Now, we can argue that it's a failure that MS either drops features or flat out bungles them when transitioning to an OS that, at its core, is pretty much the same code with new shiny wrappers, but again, why would anyone be surprised? Microsoft has used its userbase as alpha/beta t
Quick Question (Score:2)
I have been thinking about getting a new laptop with a Zen 3 processor -- do the most recent versions of the Linux kernel support the "preferred core" feature?