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Microsoft Windows IT

Microsoft Warns of New Windows 11 Problems With Apps Using Unusual Registry Keys (betanews.com) 76

Microsoft has shared details of a new known issue with Windows 11. The company has confirmed that a problem exists with apps that use certain characters in registry keys. From a report: As a result of the discovery, Microsoft has put a compatibility hold in place that means people with problematic apps installed will not be offered Windows 11 via Windows Update. The issue is under investigation. It seems that the issue is related to, or is an extension of, one of the three initial known issues with Windows 11.
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Microsoft Warns of New Windows 11 Problems With Apps Using Unusual Registry Keys

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  • Create the right registry keys and you can hold back the borg!

    It's just like in that Star Trek movie.

  • by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:16PM (#61881463)
    been a complete cluster .... no matter how it is used.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:32PM (#61881533)

      been a complete cluster .... no matter how it is used.

      Indeed. The whole idea is fundamentally bad design, no way to sugarcoat it. It is as if they took a look at Unix/Linux and decided that they could do massively better with regards to obscurity and complex, badly documented functionality.

    • Agreed, also.
    • So I don't know much about windows admin. I had a windows box for a while to play games. I haven't booted it in a long time.

      But from what I gather, the Registry is essentially:

      * take every config and .rc file on the system
      * stuff them all together and make them not human readable
      * make it so you don't know where they're stored and can't edit them in vi, and instead have to use some shitty special purpose program
      * make things break randomly

      ... is this about right or am I missing something?
      • by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @04:07PM (#61881635)

        Just you wait, that will be the new "original" features of systemd.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by caseih ( 160668 )

            Actually dconf differs from (and perhaps is better than) the registry, despite bearing a superficial resemblance. It has a at least one advantage over the registry. For example, the keys and values in dconf must be defined and enforced by a schema, which is provided in a distributed way. In other words if you install a new package, it just has to drop a schema file in a certain folder and it's automatically picked up by the system. In many ways it's more of what the registry should have been, rather than

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        That's pretty much it.

        Once apon a time, Caldera tried to bring the registry to Linux. That's why they became the first distro you couldn't even give away free at a Linux Enthusiasts meeting.

        • Aha. I never used Caldera -- my familiarity with Linux distributions generally begins and ends with "what can I get work done most easily with?" For a long while it was Ubuntu, now I'm on Fedora.
      • Basically. It was because Windows had no standardization for .ini files, nothing like /etc. Also because the user almost always had super user rights to all of those ini and system files, so the registry brought some security in addition to organization.

      • So I don't know much about windows admin. I had a windows box for a while to play games. I haven't booted it in a long time. But from what I gather, the Registry is essentially: * take every config and .rc file on the system * stuff them all together and make them not human readable * make it so you don't know where they're stored and can't edit them in vi, and instead have to use some shitty special purpose program * make things break randomly ... is this about right or am I missing something?

        occasionally there are two identical file names.

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      I miss the old days when it used INI files! Plain texts and easier to manage.

  • by Mal-2 ( 675116 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:22PM (#61881489) Homepage Journal

    It's easy, guys! Just strip out all the extended characters and disallow them, like Slashdot does. Or convert them to unintelligible but consistently legal garbage, that shouldn't break the OS.

  • by stikves ( 127823 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:28PM (#61881507) Homepage

    Out of the blue, there comes a Windows version which nobody asked for. It is imposing limits on hardware compatibility, making many recent devices obsolete in this semiconductor shortage. Adding to the wound it is gathering much more data, and disallowing local accounts on home versions. To make it worse, they promise not to back port new features, like upgrade Linux support. And now you tell me it is buggy.

    Who was the lucky admin to approve this monstrosity?

    • the money admins (Non tech staff)

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      Out of the blue, there comes a Windows version which nobody asked for.

      More on this later.

      It is imposing limits on hardware compatibility, making many recent devices obsolete in this semiconductor shortage.

      Every version imposes limits of hardware compatibility. This one happens to draw the line at processors that support hardware mitigations for things like Spectre and Meltdown. That seems - to me - reasonable as an aspiration. You've got five years to upgrade your hardware before Win10 support ends. You don't need to throw away your existing machines and buy a new Ultrascarce PC.

      Adding to the wound it is gathering much more data,

      Citation required. I haven't seen any reference to increased telemetry in profession reviews such as Ars'.

      • Every version imposes limits of hardware compatibility. This one happens to draw the line at processors that support hardware mitigations for things like Spectre and Meltdown. That seems - to me - reasonable as an aspiration.

        Citation required. Where is Microsoft saying processors must "support hardware mitigations"?

        You've got five years to upgrade your hardware before Win10 support ends. You don't need to throw away your existing machines and buy a new Ultrascarce PC.

        Microsoft support is an oxymoron.

        • Every version imposes limits of hardware compatibility. This one happens to draw the line at processors that support hardware mitigations for things like Spectre and Meltdown. That seems - to me - reasonable as an aspiration.

          Citation required. Where is Microsoft saying processors must "support hardware mitigations"?

          https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]

          You've got five years to upgrade your hardware before Win10 support ends. You don't need to throw away your existing machines and buy a new Ultrascarce PC.

          Microsoft support is an oxymoron.

          Cute.

          • Citation required. Where is Microsoft saying processors must "support hardware mitigations"?

            https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]

            This article says nothing about things like spectre and meltdown.

            • Citation required. Where is Microsoft saying processors must "support hardware mitigations"?

              https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]

              This article says nothing about things like spectre and meltdown.

              HVCI and MBEC are hardware features that isolate and protect memory from being accessed by other processes. Attacks similar in concept to Spectre and Meltdown.

              • HVCI and MBEC are hardware features that isolate and protect memory from being accessed by other processes. Attacks similar in concept to Spectre and Meltdown.

                These are completely different things. HCVI limits execution in kernel memory and MBEC improves performance of hypervisors. Spectre and Meltdown are timing side-channel vulnerabilities.

                • HVCI and MBEC are hardware features that isolate and protect memory from being accessed by other processes. Attacks similar in concept to Spectre and Meltdown.

                  These are completely different things. HCVI limits execution in kernel memory and MBEC improves performance of hypervisors. Spectre and Meltdown are timing side-channel vulnerabilities.

                  I apologize, but the difference for purposes of the topic is non-existent. The point I made - which stands - is that Microsoft's line-in-the-sand with regards to processors supported by Windows 11 isn't nonsensical. It's based on hardware features for purposes of security. I provided an illustrative example readers will be aware of. Nit-pick as you will, but your original, seemingly genuine request for citation now has the appearance of being nothing more than a (successful) attempt to waste my time. T

                  • I apologize, but the difference for purposes of the topic is non-existent. The point I made - which stands - is that Microsoft's line-in-the-sand with regards to processors supported by Windows 11 isn't nonsensical. It's based on hardware features for purposes of security. I provided an illustrative example readers will be aware of. Nit-pick as you will, but your original, seemingly genuine request for citation

                    It very much is genuine. Encountered numerous people making these same claims about spectre and meltdown being the reason for CPU requirements yet have to date found no publicly available evidence to support it.

                    The other features you mention MBEC and HVCI are both present in 7th generation Intel processors not supported in W11 either.

                    And of course the hypervisor can be easily turned off in W11.

                    The guess CPU limits are "because security" seem not only to be merely guesses they persist regardless of evidenc

    • by suss ( 158993 )

      Could it be... SATAN? (channeling Church Lady)

    • They probably talked to the morons in Marketing [wikipedia.org]: /s

      * Windows 3.0
      * Windows 3.1
      * Windows 3.11
      * Windows 3.2
      * Windows 95
      * Windows 98
      * Windows 98SE
      * Windows 2000
      * Windows ME
      * Windows XP
      * Windows Vista
      * Windows 7
      * Windows 8
      * Windows 8.1
      * Windows 10

    • It honestly sounds more like Apple than Microsoft.

      imposing limits on hardware compatibility, making many recent devices obsolete...gathering much more data...promise not to back port new features

  • guess this is some issue with the Windows migration process not the registry itself, because otherwise how would apps have successfully created, read, written etc these keys on previous releases.

    So what it sounds like is despite the documentation treating keys as labels and not really specifying reserved characters, someone made some assumptions about what someone might do or have done with a user facility. dumb dumb dumb....

    Maybe not really dumb dumb dumb, we all make mistakes and bad assumptions but that

  • MS regularly fucks up when they do anything new (well, moderately new). This is well-known. Give them time to realize that, again, they have delivered a mediocre product with some really bad parts and start grudgingly fixing at least the worst problems. This whole situation is basically ridiculous, but what you get when the #1 OS (for "proper" computers) on the planet is made by a company that has never mastered the art of solid software engineering.

  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:46PM (#61881575) Homepage
    Windows 11 is turning out to be one steaming pile of crap no one wants. With no redeeming features, why would anyone want to downgrade to it?
    • Windows 11 is turning out to be one MORE steaming pile of crap no one wants. With no redeeming features, why would anyone want to downgrade to it?

      There, fixed it for you.

    • Now you're just being cruel. I'd far rather have Windows ME on my computer than any version of Windows post 7.

      Wile it removed the ability to boot to DOS, at least it came with Movie Maker, and some really trippy media player themes. And it didn't need to record everything I did on the system to 'improve my experience' or some shite.

      Please take me back....
  • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @03:52PM (#61881593)

    The less I am at all interested in even trying it.

    I lasted 3 days when I bought a new laptop with Windows 10 on it before I trashed the drive and installed Linux.

    • Me too. I actually had the OS blow up twice in a row due to a graphics driver problem (ryzen 3/vega) and I slapped Linux on there and it's been solid. Of course the wifi driver is lame so I have to reboot periodically, no plan is perfect

  • by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Monday October 11, 2021 @05:03PM (#61881745) Homepage

    I did some Googling, and people were reporting this on the Insider version as far back as early August:
    https://answers.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]
    https://githubmemory.com/repo/... [githubmemory.com]

    The question is, how is Microsoft just now finding out about it?

  • You can't drag and drop across the taskbar in Windows 11. Did they even try Windows 11 on a desktop machine before shipping it? It looks like Microsoft are laser-focused on turning Windows into a platform for watching YouTube.
  • "It is the use of non-ASCII characters not in app names but in registry keys that is causing the issue."

    The non-ASCII characters are triggering the issue.
    The cause is Windows not handling them correctly.

    Saying that the non-ASCII characters are causing the issue is putting the blame on the app (which is actually obeying the rules) and taking the blame off Windows (which is not obeying the rules).

    • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      If the registry doesn't recognize non-ASCII characters and app programmers still use non-ASCII characters isn't it actually the apps fault?
      I suppose Microsoft could program a filter that rejects non-ASCII characters when setting registry keys but if the documentation states that only ASCII keys should be used and you use non-ASCII keys at least part of the blame falls on you.

  • Important Affected registry keys [betanews.com] with non-ASCII characters might not be able to be repaired.
  • Windows gets upset if you mix codepages. I suspect Linux and Mac do, too. Sure, mixing US/GB codepages shouldn't cause much trouble. But mixing Hebrew and US causes all sorts of fun, since the text moves in different directions. And Chinese can move vertically in addition to horizontally. If you don't start each snippet of text with the byte order mark things can get weird.

  • The headline should have stopped at "Microsoft Warns of New Windows 11".

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