Google's Fuchsia Is Expanding To 'Additional Smart Devices and Other Form Factors' (9to5google.com) 32
According to new job listings, Google is looking to expand the Fuchsia operating system from its current home on the Nest Hub to âoeadditional smart devices and other form factors." 9to5Google reports: The first listing, for "Staff Software Engineer, Fuchsia Devices," celebrates Fuchsia's recent milestone and points clearly to Google wanting Fuchsia to run on more "real world products" than just smart displays: "In 2021 we shipped Fuchsia to millions of Google smart displays, now it's time to expand to additional smart devices and other form factors. Come join us and work on the next-generation Google operating system! Although the first uses of Fuchsia are smart displays, we are working on expanding to additional form factors and use cases. The Fuchsia Devices team is responsible for making sure we can successfully apply the Fuchsia platform to real world products that make a difference to Google and our users."
So what types of devices should we expect Fuchsia to come to next? Well for one, we may look at the plural phrasing of "first uses of Fuchsia are smart displays," which suggests the Nest Hub Max and Nest Hub (2nd Gen) may be getting their chance to switch to Fuchsia soon. Of course, Google has made it abundantly clear here that smart displays are just the beginning. In another listing, for "Engineering Manager, Fuchsia Devices," the company explains that the Fuchsia Devices team is aiming to "[expand] the reach of Nest/Assistant to new form factors" through "real consumer devices." [From the listing:] "The Fuchsia Devices Smart Products team is part of the larger Fuchsia organization and is responsible for productionizing various types of Fuchsia Devices. Our team delivers real consumer devices to end users and enables you to have a large impact at Google by expanding the reach of Nest/Assistant to new form factors."
This could suggest entirely new device categories for Google's Nest lineup, powered by Fuchsia. In another section, we get some hints at what those proposed devices would be capable of: "Chromecast, Video Conferencing and Machine Learning are core parts of many of the upcoming smart products." It's important to note that "Chromecast" here is probably not referring to the lineup of Chromecast hardware for TVs switching to Fuchsia. Instead, it's more likely referring to how Google's speakers and displays can receive a "Cast" from your phone. This is somewhat clarified in the job listing's responsibilities section, which lists a handful of features that squarely line up with features of the camera-equipped Nest Hub Max, including "Face Match." The Nest Hub Max's store listing also references "Chromecast built-in" as a feature: "Plan, scope, and execute of features like Video Casting, Actions on Google, Video Calling, Face Match, and on device ML."
It also looks like Made by Google devices may soon not be the only ones shipping with Fuchsia. According to another listing, Google is looking for someone on Fuchsia's "platform graphics and media" team to, among other things, "influence hardware decisions made by partners." [From the listing:] "As a Staff Software Engineer on the Fuchsia team, you'll drive the technical direction for Graphics and Media and ensure that Fuchsia is bringing maximum value to partners and Fuchsia-based products. You also will influence hardware decisions made by partners to improve Fuchsia and Google's ability to deliver efficient software solutions for critical Graphics and Media workloads." Fuchsia debuted on the first-generation Nest Hub earlier this year.
So what types of devices should we expect Fuchsia to come to next? Well for one, we may look at the plural phrasing of "first uses of Fuchsia are smart displays," which suggests the Nest Hub Max and Nest Hub (2nd Gen) may be getting their chance to switch to Fuchsia soon. Of course, Google has made it abundantly clear here that smart displays are just the beginning. In another listing, for "Engineering Manager, Fuchsia Devices," the company explains that the Fuchsia Devices team is aiming to "[expand] the reach of Nest/Assistant to new form factors" through "real consumer devices." [From the listing:] "The Fuchsia Devices Smart Products team is part of the larger Fuchsia organization and is responsible for productionizing various types of Fuchsia Devices. Our team delivers real consumer devices to end users and enables you to have a large impact at Google by expanding the reach of Nest/Assistant to new form factors."
This could suggest entirely new device categories for Google's Nest lineup, powered by Fuchsia. In another section, we get some hints at what those proposed devices would be capable of: "Chromecast, Video Conferencing and Machine Learning are core parts of many of the upcoming smart products." It's important to note that "Chromecast" here is probably not referring to the lineup of Chromecast hardware for TVs switching to Fuchsia. Instead, it's more likely referring to how Google's speakers and displays can receive a "Cast" from your phone. This is somewhat clarified in the job listing's responsibilities section, which lists a handful of features that squarely line up with features of the camera-equipped Nest Hub Max, including "Face Match." The Nest Hub Max's store listing also references "Chromecast built-in" as a feature: "Plan, scope, and execute of features like Video Casting, Actions on Google, Video Calling, Face Match, and on device ML."
It also looks like Made by Google devices may soon not be the only ones shipping with Fuchsia. According to another listing, Google is looking for someone on Fuchsia's "platform graphics and media" team to, among other things, "influence hardware decisions made by partners." [From the listing:] "As a Staff Software Engineer on the Fuchsia team, you'll drive the technical direction for Graphics and Media and ensure that Fuchsia is bringing maximum value to partners and Fuchsia-based products. You also will influence hardware decisions made by partners to improve Fuchsia and Google's ability to deliver efficient software solutions for critical Graphics and Media workloads." Fuchsia debuted on the first-generation Nest Hub earlier this year.
Future of Linux smartphones (Score:1)
When Google rolls around to replacing Android with Fuchsia (Zircon kernel) what will happen to the world of Linux-based smartphones? Will a "community" come together to engage with hardware vendors to continue building and maintaining it as well as ensuring there are still devices shipping with it? Or will it just fall into the open source hole of disrepair like Maemo/Meego did?
The community is great at "getting things working" like Linux on the iPhone but not so great at finishing the job and creating a co
Fuchsia will replace the Linux kernel, not Android (Score:2)
When Google rolls around to replacing Android with Fuchsia
Fuchsia will replace the Linux kernel, not Android. Nearly all Android software won't care as long as the posix calls are there.
Re: (Score:2)
When Google rolls around to replacing Android with Fuchsia
Fuchsia will replace the Linux kernel, not Android. Nearly all Android software won't care as long as the posix calls are there.
The kernel for Fuchsia is called "Zircon" but your point is still valid, Fuchsia will most likely ship with all the Android runtime APIs so all the Android software can still run on it.
From an engineering point of view (Score:5, Insightful)
This sounds like it might be really interesting work. A new OS, new and varied kinds of hardware, a chance to build a platform from the ground up.
But from a consumer point of view none of these devices sound interesting, especially from Google. We can expect maximum data collection, a fragmented ecosystem, and a complete lack of consistency or longevity. Just a disjoined collection of bright and shiny things that will soon be unsupported or obsolete.
It ain't the tech that's the problem, it's the business model.
Has it lived up to the hype? (Score:2)
This sounds like it might be really interesting work. A new OS, new and varied kinds of hardware, a chance to build a platform from the ground up.
I've heard a ton of praise and hype about fuchsia over the years (worst OS name ever), but I have yet to see any benefit, or really any solid data about it. How is this better than Linux? I know Google is telling me it is 1 billion times better and I am an idiot for not being able to see it, but I guess that's just another reason I'm an idiot.
Can someone explain why this is not a masturbatory vanity project? What problem does Fuchsia actually solve (better than it's competitors)?
Re:Has it lived up to the hype? (Score:4, Insightful)
What problem does Fuchsia actually solve (better than it's competitors)?
Linux is under the GPL, so Google has to release the full source code of their derivative works.
That means people can use "Android" phones without the spyware.
That's certainly a problem Google wants to solve.
Re:Has it lived up to the hype? (Score:5, Informative)
Linux is under the GPL, so Google has to release the full source code of their derivative works.
They have to release the modifications they make to the kernel sure but what else does the fact that the kernel is under GPL mean that they have to release? The GPL is not viral in this case, you can make syscalls to the kernel from non-GPL code just fine. The whole "Android" system that sits atop the kernel is not tied to the kernel license and is not a "derivative work" of the Linux kernel.
Re:Has it lived up to the hype? (Score:5, Informative)
Fuchsia is open source too, uses BSD licence primarily but also MIT for some parts.
Google doesn't care about people replacing the OS on their phones, or rooting them and installing whatever hacks and privacy enhancements they like. They are a tiny minority of users who are likely very resistant to advertising anyway (e.g. they run an ad blocker) so they aren't worth developing an entire new operating system just to not generate any revenue anyway.
What Google does care about is security and preventing Android version fragmentation. Fuchsia is a better fit for the Android security model, and it will allow them to upgrade more parts of the OS without the phone manufacturer needing to put in a lot, or any work.
Re: (Score:2)
I have to agree. It's not innovative like RustOS even. It's main innovation seems to be to remove the last GPL component Google have in their stack.
A lot of us currently get a lot of flexibility having Linux below android, the kernel is very configurable. There are just too many "hours" of code for even Google to replicate a tenth of this in something else.
Re: (Score:1)
The Linux kernel is incredibly bloated, there's so much in there that is just completely irrelevant to Android. Moreover the GPL isn't an issue for them, they aren't innovating in the Linux kernel and everything above the kernel is safe from being "infected" with the GPL anyway. Even for hardware vendors many of the drivers that are built against the kernel aren't actually GPL, they are a small kernel module loader that then loads the proprietary driver.
What they want is control over the whole stack, vertic
Does it live up to hype in a tangible way though? (Score:2)
The Linux kernel is incredibly bloated, there's so much in there that is just completely irrelevant to Android.
OK, so Linux is bloated. How much faster is fuchsia? I don't really care about a few megabytes on disk if that's the bloat you're talking about. If you make my phone faster or battery last longer, I'm interested...otherwise, it seems pretty masturbatory. Lean code is nice. I am a software engineer myself and appreciate it, but no one would ever pay me to rewrite bloated code unless there was a tangible benefit.
Re: (Score:3)
The Linux kernel is incredibly bloated, there's so much in there that is just completely irrelevant to Android.
When you build a kernel, you don't have to build in every piece. That bloat you're talking about really isn't a problem.
Re: (Score:3)
The Linux kernel is incredibly bloated, there's so much in there that is just completely irrelevant to Android.
When you build a kernel, you don't have to build in every piece. That bloat you're talking about really isn't a problem.
Yep, people who have never built a Linux kernel talking about how Linux works is at once horrifying to see on Slashdot, and hilarious.
Re: (Score:2)
What problem does Fuchsia actually solve (better than it's competitors)?
Problem: They are unable to push upgrades due to closed source drivers. Linux doesn't have a stable ABI for anything which is fine for open source drivers but it means closed source drivers need to be recompiled and released for every kernel build. This is requires effort which means spending money which is something companies don't want to do. As a result after a company abandons it's phone, you cannot upgrade the phone's kernel because of the closed source drivers.
Solution: Fuchsia claims to be a micr
Re: (Score:2)
>This sounds like it might be really interesting work. A new OS, new and varied kinds of hardware, a chance to build a platform from the ground up.
The most interesting new platform I've played with recently is circuit python. Essentially python running on the bare metal as the OS. You can get at all the hardware and the number of layers of code are reduced to about 2 depending on how you choose to squint at it.
Re: (Score:2)
If this results in better security, users might care.
Re: (Score:3)
Of course it will result in better security, all your info will be owned and kept secure by G. Of course it will cease to be yours and you can be sued for using it.
Re: (Score:2)
One of the goals of Fuchsia is to prevent fragmentation but moving away from big monolithic kernels and changing ABIs that make getting drivers for newer versions a problem. Much of it can be updated directly by Google without the need for the device manufacturer to do anything to support it.
It's also supposed to be more efficient for mobile devices so should improve battery life.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with all of this except "it might be really interesting work". It sounds uninteresting, especially considering the remaining comments.
Can't wait for the year of the Fuchsia desktop (Score:2)
Year of Linux Desktop will be here first (Score:2)
Can't wait for the year of the Fuchsia desktop. But does it have to get in line behind Linux?
Yes, Linux will "succeed" on the Desktop first. 2022 or 23 will likely be the Year of Linux on the Windows Desktop. Win11's WSL is much improved, likely consumer ready.
Re: (Score:2)
If Google started switching it's Chromebooks over to using Fuchsia, it would have more "desktop" market-share than Linux ever had in about a year.
Let's face it... nobody really seems to be interested in making a Linux distribution that's user friendly. Instead, we end up with a bunch of Ubuntu clones that look pretty but usually require console commands and hand editing of configuration files to fix if something goes wrong. If you're looking for the best way to scare away newbies, that's how to do it. It's
How many operating systems? (Score:2)
How many operating systems do we need? Isn't Android fragmented enough? Can't they use an Android fragment? What is this BS?
Android apps would not notice the switch (Score:2)
How many operating systems do we need? Isn't Android fragmented enough? Can't they use an Android fragment? What is this BS?
You can replace the Linux kernel with some other posix supporting kernel and hardly any 3rd party Android software will care. What is it, 75% is pure Java/Kotlin and most of the remaining "native" code uses only posix and not anything Linux specific.
FUCKU OS (Score:1)
Why didn't that they name it that way? Are they really that stupid with names, it reads as "fuck you OS"
Re: (Score:1)
Because they are so overconfident that they think they can literally announce that they will fuck you over before doing it.
Luckly, not everything is uneducated backwater swamp land.
You mean Google's MALWARE "Fuchsia" (Score:1)
Removing the last remainders of ownership, control, freedom and it being a computer, from your pocket computers.
It sounds like "fucks ya" for a reason.
I suggest calling its buyers "whores" instead of "users". Openly. In news, and conversation.