Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Japan

After 76 Years, Japan Has Aircraft Carriers Again (popularmechanics.com) 184

The United States Marine Corps and Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force made history last month with an epic flight that relaunched Japan's carrier aviation program. From a report: The flight involving the Japanese aircraft carrier Izumo and American F-35B fighter jets marked the first time Japan has operated an aircraft carrier since 1945. Japan was one of the first pioneering naval aviation powers, but its involvement in World War II saw the destruction of nearly its entire fleet battle force -- particularly the carriers. The flight took place on October 3 in the Pacific Ocean. Two F-35B Joint Strike Fighters operating from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni took off from mainland Japan, refueled in midair, and then landed on the ship JS Izumo. The F-35Bs landed vertically on Izumo's flight deck and then performed a rolling takeoff. [...] In December 1941, Japan operated the largest and best-trained carrier force in the world. Japan was heavily reliant on its navy for power projection and took a natural liking to the concept of operating planes from ships. The Imperial Japanese Navy built the world's first purpose-built aircraft carrier, Hosho, in 1922. (Other countries, including the United States, built early carriers by using the hulls of other types of ships.)
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

After 76 Years, Japan Has Aircraft Carriers Again

Comments Filter:
  • The Zentraedi are long overdue and we need to be prepared! Where is Minmay and Hikaru? Make sure Japan has at least two aircraft carriers, the fate of the world depends on it! While you are at it, bring up and retrofit the Yamato!
    • Please, not Minmay, anything but that. I think that would be called a war crime nowadays.

      I totally want a Veritech built though, not sure what it would be realistically used for though.

      • But Minmay is our secret weapon that brings the Zentraedi to their knees. Without her, we can't win. With her, "we CAN win!!"
    • Wasn't one of them an aircraft carrier and the other an amphibious landing ship?

      • Correct. Prometheus was an aircraft carrier and Daedalus was an amphibious landing ship (as in it could physically land on a beach and deploy troops, which is weird as the hull below the waterline is not the right shape for that, but that's what they said). How they managed to attach them to the Macross is a mystery given that they did not have any sort of docking port functionality. UN Spacy must have some crazy efficient and skilled welding crews.

        In the movie version, Daedalus and Prometheus are destroyed

    • Well, Japan has always had âoehelicopter carriersâ which based on the design is basically a regular aircraft carrier with different designs painted on the deck. Theyâ(TM)ve done various things like that to maintain a covert readiness state while complying with the allied rules around disarmament and non-offensive platforms from the Second World War.

      With China a growing threat and the US and UK/EU effectively drawn back from the region, Japan is getting a bit scared and becoming more and more

      • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        It's 550 miles from Fukuoka to Shanghai. The F-35 has a range of 1,700 miles. Aircraft carriers are not necessary, especially if it's a defensive mission.

        They may not be all that useful either, given China's anti-ship ballistic missiles. Concentrating a lot of aircraft on a sinkable airport makes it easier to destroy them in a single strike.

        • Submarines are real easy to sink, the trick is finding them. Aircraft carriers enjoy much of the same benefits of being hard to find due to not having to come in close in order to strike. anti-ship ballistic missiles are useless unless you have a fix on the target.
          • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

            Do you really think the Chinese would pour so much money into ASBMs without thinking about how targeting would work?

            Not only do they have a way, it's so well-known that even the US military is well aware of it [uscc.gov]:

            Chinese military writings portray space assets as critical for carrying out joint firepower strike operations against Taiwan. They portray ISR satellites as being particularly important. These satellites would be tasked with collecting intelligence used by the PLA to build and update lists of Taiwanese and U.S. targets, monitor and target U.S. ships and planes within 3,000 kilometers (km) of the PRC, and produce battle damage assessments after the initial wave of strikes.

            • Satellites are fish in a barrel, they travel in easily-calculated orbits and have no defenses, the Chinese even blew up one of their own as a test. This is why no U.S weapon system or strategy relies solely on GPS or any other purely space based system.
              • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

                Those military satellites have maneuvering capability, which is to say, they're in "easily-calculated orbits" until they decide not to be.

                Moreover, one they blew up was orbiting at 865 km in altitude. The ones they're using are in GSO, which is 35,786 km up. Nobody has a anti-sat weapon that can reach GSO and Japan itself has no anti-satellite capability at all and would have to rely on the US getting involved.

                This is why no U.S weapon system or strategy relies solely on GPS or any other purely space based system

                Yes there are. Those satellite-guided JDAMs stop being precision-guided when they lose GPS.

                And tha

                • Those military satellites have maneuvering capability, which is to say, they're in "easily-calculated orbits" until they decide not to be.

                  Moreover, one they blew up was orbiting at 865 km in altitude. The ones they're using are in GSO, which is 35,786 km up. Nobody has a anti-sat weapon that can reach GSO and Japan itself has no anti-satellite capability at all and would have to rely on the US getting involved.

                  This is why no U.S weapon system or strategy relies solely on GPS or any other purely space based system

                  Yes there are. Those satellite-guided JDAMs stop being precision-guided when they lose GPS.

                  And that's irrelevant in any case. There's no reason to think China only has one way of detecting aircraft carriers. I mean, they have aircraft, ships and submarines too, the last of which is also a huge threat to carriers in themselves.

                  They carry a limited amount of fuel to stabilize their orbits when need-be, not enough to continually adjust their orbits to make them unpredictable. The GSO's sure are high but arguably the hardest part of hitting the satellite is targeting and what is essentially a stationary object help's with that. JDAM's are bomb's, it is nice to have them precision guided but it is not necessary for them to do their job unlike a anti-ship missile which is useless without precision. There is a reason why Carriers trave

                  • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

                    They carry a limited amount of fuel to stabilize their orbits when need-be, not enough to continually adjust their orbits to make them unpredictable.

                    They can carry more if they're expecting to dodge your anti-satellite weapons. And no, they don't need to continually adjust their orbits, as I'll explain later.

                    The GSO's sure are high

                    Not just a little high. To put it into perspective, it's 3 times the distance from China to the US.

                    but arguably the hardest part of hitting the satellite is targeting

                    No. The hardest part of hitting a satellite in GSO is reaching it. Assuming you even have a rocket ready to go, or even better, something already in LEO, it still takes up to 90 minutes to reach a position to start the geosynchronous transfer orbit (GT

          • Satellite photos ...

    • Has anyone checked that the Yamato is where we left it [theguardian.com] recently ?
  • by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:10PM (#61961037)

    We need to arm Japan with nukes too.

    Preferably hypersonic ones that can hit the heart of China inside a few minutes.

    • To be credible they MUST be wielded by potential victims. The US has nukes but no reason to use them in Asia because nothing there is an existential threat to the US (unless Beijing went nuts are tried a countervalue strike).

      NeoCons want us to fight China but that does nothing for the American public.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Any reasonably advanced country could build nukes pretty fast if they needed them. The tough part is building the rockets to deliver them, but Japan has lots of those.

        I wouldn't be shocked to find out Japan has some very super secret contingency plans to throw together a few nukes in the event of an emergency. South Korea and Taiwan too.

        • I wouldn't be shocked to find out Japan has some very super secret contingency plans to throw together a few nukes in the event of an emergency. South Korea and Taiwan too.

          See my post above about known capabilities. I only listed stuff that are established facts, but I agree. Undoubtedly there are secret contingency plans. In fact, sophisticated weapon design work can be reasonably justified as a way of developing threat analysis skills, understanding what other nations are doing/can do. The defence and intelligence establishment would be remiss not to do this. Of course those very same efforts can be turned into production plans.

    • There's still a sizeable minority of Japan that believes they are destined to take over the world: what their ancestors failed to achieve, will be finished by future generations.

      No nukes for Japan until they stop that mentality.

      • There's still a sizeable minority of Japan that believes they are destined to take over the world

        This is not wrong. However, most of your Japanese Red Army types (they used to circle the Soviet Embassy near our apartment in Roppongi, blaring WWII-era martial music from truck-mounted megaphones) are likely withering away, having spent the last of their years - as well as their yen - keeping the used-panty vending machines profitable for the Yakuza.

    • We need to arm Japan with nukes too.

      Preferably hypersonic ones that can hit the heart of China inside a few minutes.

      Japan is perfectly capable of developing and building its own nuclear weapons if it decides it needs them, and quickly too. Of all the non-nuclear nations of the world Japan has the most comprehensive set if industries, technologies and research capabilities to build not just nuclear weapons, but the most advanced nuclear weapons. Complete array of nuclear industries and technologies? Check. Plutonium separation plants? Check. Huge stockpiles of separated plutonium? Check. [Yes they can use their RG plutoni

      • by spth ( 5126797 )
        While two years would be very quick compared to how long it took others to become a nuclear power, it might not be fast enough from the time they make the decision to the time China invades them.
  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:14PM (#61961049)
    Yes, but Democratic Japan and Imperial Japan are very different counties. Democratic Japan has demonstrated multiple generations of good world-citizenship that is based on widely held modern cultural values, rather than based on the mercurial whims of an emperor.
    • The Japanese economy is failing as manufacturing is gradually offshored, the poor and homeless numbers continue to grow, the ill-advised nuclear energy policy does not change, and overall moral decay grows. A mulch that is perfect for another dictator to surface.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Draeven ( 166561 )

        For a moment, I forgot you were talking about Japan and were commenting on America instead.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The problem in America is the very excited Communist gender warriors, eager to suck the lifeblood out of the bourgoisie without even giving them a "happy ending".

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        And in real life on the other hand, we haven't even seen any meaningful political protest on the nationalist side. The opposite is true in fact, LDP has been made to share power with hardcore "peace at all costs" Komeito party.

        Though with realities of China, Komeito's support has shrunk in the polls last I looked, so Japan may go to its long term post-war status quo of LDP as the sole party of national government. And if you find the urbanisation causing "moral decay", Japan is well protected against that a

    • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday November 05, 2021 @06:03PM (#61961537) Journal

      Yes, but Democratic Japan and Imperial Japan are very different counties. Democratic Japan has demonstrated multiple generations of good world-citizenship that is based on widely held modern cultural values, rather than based on the mercurial whims of an emperor.

      True, but it's worth pointing out that Japan got into WWII, and especially into a fight with the United States over the objections of its emperor, who was not mercurial at all, but had receded to a largely ceremonial position even though he still held immense status. Hirohito didn't choose war, he just didn't choose to take on a large enough policy role to stop it. And, indeed, when at the end of the war and after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he finally did decide that he had to put a stop to it, the result was that a faction of the military attempted to assassinate him (for a second time -- there was an attempted coup in 1936 by a military faction that was the direct ancestor of the pro-war group that attempted to stop the surrender).

      The Japanese emperor today, of course, has a purely ceremonial position with no political power at all. That's almost certainly a good thing, but it's worth noting that had that been the case in 1945 it's unlikely that Japan would have surrendered. The military had too much power, and too much of the military wanted to fight to the bitter end. They were seriously planning to pit untrained civilians armed with makeshift spears against battle-hardened and heavily-armed US Marines when the US inevitably invaded the Japanese home islands.

      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Yes, but Democratic Japan and Imperial Japan are very different counties. Democratic Japan has demonstrated multiple generations of good world-citizenship that is based on widely held modern cultural values, rather than based on the mercurial whims of an emperor.

        True, but it's worth pointing out that Japan got into WWII, and especially into a fight with the United States over the objections of its emperor, ...

        The Emperor's role was whitewashed by MacArthur because MacArthur understood his value in pacifying Japan.

        "But history marches on and fresh information constantly comes forth. There’s a newly released memo floating around, written in 1941 by Japanese Vice Interior Minister Michio Yuzawa. Early on the morning of December 7, just hours before the Japanese strike at Pearl, Yuzawa attended a meeting with Tojo and his top aides. Tojo had just briefed the emperor, and he seemed quite happy with the resul

        • But you are aware that the war started roughly ten years earlier ?

          When the war is already running, and you have no means/will to stop it, then a preemptive strike on a party that most likely will attack you anyway sooner or later, makes sense. Or not?

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            But you are aware that the war started roughly ten years earlier ? When the war is already running, and you have no means/will to stop it, then a preemptive strike on a party that most likely will attack you anyway sooner or later, makes sense. Or not?

            Yes the war started much earlier with the invasion of China. The US response was to curb steel and oil sales to Japan. Rather than end their invasion of China they chose to invade neighboring countries to secure new sources of resources, in particular oil. Attacking the UK/US was to prevent hypothetical UK/US interdiction of these new supply lines.

            There were many means to stop or avoid war. There was however no will. Rather there was a willi to expand both conquest and war to create a new empire, the Gre

  • Looking forward to meeting the Yamato gun at sea. Should be fun.

    • by drnb ( 2434720 )

      Looking forward to meeting the Yamato gun at sea. Should be fun.

      Great light and sound show but not so useful due to inaccuracy. Or were you referring to the one in space not at sea? ;-)

      • by Bodie1 ( 1347679 )

        I read it as the one from space, but in the sea...

      • The space one, at sea. Or both, why not?

      • Those naval guns are not "inaccurate". They hit very precisely what you aim at. Problem is the aiming and taking into account the roughly 25 parameters that affect range.

        Check youtube, there is a nice movie about what parameter, like air pressure, air temperature, moisture, how hot the gun (is how often fired) etc.

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Those naval guns are not "inaccurate". They hit very precisely what you aim at. Problem is the aiming and taking into account the roughly 25 parameters that affect range.

          Compared to the smaller guns of the US Iowa class they were absolutely "inaccurate". That is why most historians consider the Iowa to be the superior ship, accuracy more than making up for smaller shells. And yes, superior fire control had a lot to do with it.

          • The Yamato never was in a real gun battle. So: no one knows. And I doubt they were worth than e.g. the Bismarcks guns.

            Fire control of course is the point.

            • by drnb ( 2434720 )

              The Yamato never was in a real gun battle. So: no one knows.

              The Japanese knew how accurate Yamato's guns were. The US attained those records after the war.

  • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Friday November 05, 2021 @03:33PM (#61961117) Journal

    I'm just hoping that we don't see history repeating. In WW2, the UK was like one huge Allied aircraft carrier. In WW3, Japan might be the same. If China "sinks" Taiwan, it'll be pretty obvious we're heading in that direction.

    • Japan just needs an Godzilla to attract China!

    • In WW2, the UK was like one huge Allied aircraft carrier.

      While its size was certainly advantageous, it lost a lot in terms of maneuverability.

  • I'm a veteran and rasied by WWII people, but I'm also a child of the 70's and 80's, and well, "all the best stuff is made in Japan"

    I wouldn't mind seeing the following names on flat-tops flying the Rising Sun again:

    Kaga
    Akagi
    Hiryu
    Soryu

    Sadly, these names are already taken for smaller vessels in the Japanese Self Defense Maritime Force. Jesus that's a mouthful. Japanese Navy would work better.

    Still, kudos for getting their flattops going again.

  • This ship started out as a helicopter carrying destroyer and was converted to land a couple of VTOL jet planes. At 28,000 tons its as big as some WWII battleships. Not Yamato class nor Bismark class. But a USS Mississippi after a crash diet or something. So the obesity epidemic infected the ships too? Destroyers are tipping the scales at 28 tons?
    • Lets remember Emperor Akito, he is the only person to have resigned from the position of God. Officially.
    • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

      "Destroyers" will continue to grow in size until the "destroyer" in "Imperial Star Destroyer" (estimated at 40 million tons) becomes a reasonable ship type designation.

  • The reason why China ultimately needs control of Taiwan and various maritime territories is to prevent being hemmed in. China has had more than enough experience of that in the Opium Wars.

    This action just accelerated China's timeframe on Taiwan, if the early reveal of US training forces in Taiwan didn't.
    • If China wasn't possessed by the mentality of a paranoid asshole, it wouldn't consider itself "hemmed in." Does France consider itself hemmed in? Germany? Denmark?

      Respect your neighbors and cooperate with them as long as they don't misbehave.

      • I specifically mentioned the Opium Wars. Nothing to do with paranoia, but completely everything to do with understanding history. The Opium Wars showed that China needs a strong navy to prevent being hemmed in by WESTERN POWERS, as the US is trying to do now. And to have a strong navy means having maritime borders they can defend. Having Taiwan and Japan holding foreign military bases, from which the US can launch any attacks, goes against that.

        It's not paranoia when the West is looking to do exactly the
  • In appreciation of Japan's effort, the US has undertaken a kamikaze climate change policy.

"It's like deja vu all over again." -- Yogi Berra

Working...