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AI Transportation Idle

Will Self-Driving Cars Be Able to Handle... Bears? (forbes.com) 88

A wild bear broke into a parked car looking for food. This set AI pundit Lance Eliot a-thinking... The AI driving system of a self-driving car is always intact. A parked self-driving car is immediately able to become a moving car.... If the self-driving car is making use of its object detection system, even though the autonomous vehicle is parked, the AI driving capability would be alerted at [a hypothetical] pending crash that is about to occur... Depending upon what the AI developers anticipated, the AI driving system might activate the self-driving car and attempt to quickly drive away from the converging human-driven car.
For most makers of self-driving cars, this is an obscure "edge" case. But Eliot imagines a world where a self-driving car is parked next to a forest... The human hiker has left the autonomous vehicle and has trekked somewhere deep in the woods. A bear meanders into the parking lot, looking for a free meal. If the AI driving system is using its object detection features, the bear would likely be detected. When the bear decides to wander directly toward the self-driving car, the AI driving system might activate the autonomous vehicle and drive away from the bear.

It is unclear if the bear will somehow divine that the self-driving car is capable of moving on its own accord... After a while, it seems plausible to suggest that bears will be concerned that those free meal containers (on wheels) seem to move away upon the bear approaching. This will possibly discourage some bears and they will steer clear of parked cars. Other bears might turn this into a game. Kind of hide-and-seek, of sorts. Approach a car, it moves away. Fun! Walk over to the car and see which way it goes next. A grand old time in the parking lot, that's for sure.

And as long as we're telling shaggy bear stories... The odds are that self-driving cars will be designed differently on the interior than are conventional human-driven cars. For example, there is no need for a steering wheel and nor any need for the pedals. Those will no longer be included. The interior is opened up to allow for perhaps swiveling seats, possibly reclining seats so that you can sleep on a long journey inside a self-driving car. Given that type of interior, the bear is bound to find things a lot more comfortable inside a self-driving car than a conventional human-driven car. The next thing you know, bears will fall in love with self-driving cars, doing so because it is a quiet, spacious, and secure place to rest and relax. No need to worry about predators getting at the bear while relishing the plush and roomy interior....

A second question is whether the bears might figure out how to communicate with the AI driving system. You know, bears are pretty sharp. Perhaps a truly enterprising bear could convince the AI to take the bear for a cozy ride while inside the self-driving car.

Don't be especially surprised if you start to see bears riding around in self-driving cars.

And please remember, you heard about it here, first.

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Will Self-Driving Cars Be Able to Handle... Bears?

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  • Elon Musk needs to program Tesla's AI to recognize the look and sound of a bear, and to play a bear "alert" noise to cause the bruin to run away.

    • "alert" noise to cause the bruin to run away.

      Bruins play too much beer pong for that to work.

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @06:19PM (#61966831)

      TFA assumes that a parked SDC will start up and move to avoid a collision.

      That is false. SDCs don't do that. The rest of TFA is just stupidity based on that false premise.

      Look, cars have autonomously driven more than five BILLION miles. We don't need wild conjectures about how they would theoretically behave. We can look at how they actually behave. It is called "reality-based reasoning".

      No, bears are not a real problem for SDCs.

      • Agree, TFA is written by someone incapable of logical thought.

        Whoever wrote it thinks they are a genius who's found a loophole that means they can dress up as a bear and herd self-driving cars into their free range reservation for abused AI.
      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        How many have had bears enter the self driving car? Bears entering vehicles is somewhat common around here, the worst cases are when the door shuts after they enter and the bear rips the interior apart. Then there's the fun of opening the door for the bear to leave.
        Hopefully self driving cars will be smarter about locking themselves up then people are at locking their cars, though sometimes the bear will break the window to enter.
        A search such as https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Bear... [duckduckgo.com] shows lots of examples such

      • No, bears are not a real problem for SDCs.

        Yes, but what about a group of drunk Chicago Bears linemen staggering down the street and bouncing off of parked, sentient, SDCs. Would they all start up and try moving away?

        TFA makes no sense. Even without ridiculous what ifs, SDCs when parked should not be designed to react and move when pedestrians (even bears) are out and about nearby.

  • I just hope (Score:3, Funny)

    by rotorbudd ( 1242864 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:02PM (#61966247)

    This ALL comes true.

  • by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:03PM (#61966251)

    What about dogs? I have a 90lb dog. He can probably touch the door handle to open it, nudge the door open with his nose, and jump in. Dog park here we come! Woof!

    • Teslas already HAVE a "dog mode", that runs the A/C to keep the cabin cool on hot days, so that Fido doesn't die of heat. Or cold.

      https://www.notateslaapp.com/t... [notateslaapp.com]

      • I'm programming a voice command, using my dog's bark (speak! good boy!), he is getting "dog park mode". After the car parks at the dog park the window opens so he can get out, then the car waits in dog mode so he is comfy when he gets hungry and wants to come home.

    • What about a moose? Yes, I know that's an edge case. It's a very common edge case in many states. So, maybe, not an edge case.
  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:04PM (#61966253)

    That anyone who calls himself a "pundit" on a topic should be summarily ignored. Has Forbes turned into Medium? I'm assuming this was some sort of unsolicited blog post...

  • by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:09PM (#61966265)

    So that "AI pundit", has no idea how each specific self driving car works makes a speculation and then proceeds as though the speculation is established fact. What is he a republican?

  • Will the AI be able to move the car away from homeless bums looking for loot?

  • can you get an DIU in self-driving car with no controls?? the cops may clam that an app or touch screen is the controls. even if you are just sleeping it in with it on for heat.

  • by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:20PM (#61966307) Homepage Journal

    Self-driving cars can't really work while they're merely pattern matching.

    Something close to a Strong AI can probably learn to drive but right now they still mistake a rising harvest moon for a yellow light.

    Not even a toddler would make that mistake yet people are trusting their lives to software dumber than somebody who's still in diapers.

    I hope we get it right before I'm too old to drive. Thirty years or so.

    • I hope we get it right before I'm too old to drive. Thirty years or so.

      I'm happy to be alive while driving is still fun and glad I won't be here when it is no longer allowed.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        I’m not worried about it. We’ve been hear about these dumb things for over a decade now. They were supposed to be on the roads and available to the public years ago. They don’t work and never will, because human knowledge and instinct isn’t easily replaced by some stupid-ass algorithm written by a bunch of smooth-brained tech guys in the Valley.
        • > They were supposed to be on the roads and available to the public years ago. They don’t work and never will

          A driverless taxi service is operating for public passengers in Phoenix right now.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      We need strong AI for an autonomous car under the assumption that the solution is entirely located *in the car*, which has to navigate a system entirely designed around human capabilities.

      But what if we could put some of that solution *in the road system* -- embedded in the road surface, in computer-friendly signage etc.? Couldn't we get there a lot sooner? A street signal is designed around the human ability to identify an object by *context*, something that takes strong AI to duplicate. But what if we

      • Yes, that's feasible for certain closed-road situations, for example airports or other business premises or recreational places like golf courses, or potentially gated communities.

        But as a general solution for public roads, it's a non-starter. Communities the world over aren't going to invest in this infrastructure. It becomes a chicken-and-egg situation.

        Once driverless cars are ubiquitous, then the road systems will start to be designed with them as the primary users. But we're at least a decade away from

        • I'd settle for freeways being designed for auto-automobiles. When I'm on a long drive, I could take a nap until the system wakes me up at the exit. If for some reason I don't respond to the system's wakeup call, it can pull over on the side until I do.

          Plus the worst human drivers seem to be on the freeways, or at least they act the worst that way. (I suppose they must drive to the freeways, they just seem worse once they get there.) Idiots driving 90 mph, weaving in an out of traffic, tailgating if you'r

    • Comparing self driving cars to humans like that is a bit like saying diggers will never replace men holding spades because diggers can't grip the handles properly.

      For the foreseeable future AI won't beat humans on our home turf of an alert, well trained, well rested driver in good physical health and a good mental state in conditions that are familiar with. On the other hand the AI will never drive into oncoming traffic because it got drunk, was too tired, turned around to yell at its kids, started texting

      • they only have to be less terrible than the median human driver.

        They don't even need to be that good to be a net win.

        They only need to be better than the driver they replace.

        It is likely that people who are the worst drivers will be the first customers for an SDC.

        • Actually, I suspect many of the worst drivers would be the last customers for an SDC.

          More specifically, there are those who know they're bad--they flunked the drivers' license test three times, or some such. There are some of those people, and they will, as you suggest, welcome an SDC.

          But the drivers I fear on the road aren't those people--they're the people who think they're Mario Andretti (or whoever the current equivalent is), and drive as fast as they can, weave around other cars so they can get a litt

  • by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @02:33PM (#61966347)

    more stupid stories like the one about self-driving cars and bears?

  • and the AI decides that the bear is hungry ... should it drive it to the nearest restaurant ?

  • This is a no-brainer. A parked car should be OFF. There is no reason for an autonomous car to be idling. In the off state, any car is, and should be, a big dumb object of glass, steel and other stuff.

    The only thing a bear should be able to do is set off the anti-theft system in its efforts to get into the car. The siren should be enough to deter most bears.

    • I suspect you live somewhere without a real winter. For some of us, cars can be dangerously cold without running the heater for a few minutes. And their windshields can be ice coated, or even frost on the inside when people get inside and breathe if they're not warmed up first.

      • Still doesn't mean you want to come back to discover your car has been driving all over the car park, draining the battery. That was my first thought anyway. I'm going to be very annoyed if I come back to my car to discover I don't have enough battery to get back home because its been running away from bears all day.

        • I agree completely. I'm describing "on, but locked" to warm up the car, or to allow the AC to bring down the temperature for a short period if it's been sitting in the sun.

      • While I can see a scenario where a car should start without you, send it to find a park and come and pick you up, however once parked it should be in an almost off state. Although the edge case of protecting your car from bears might seem slightly useful, the more likely scenario, of the battery being flat after a week in the bush, as your car running all its sensors, and trying to avoid random animals passing, is far more likely. Not to mention morons running at parked cars, getting them to move to "avoid"

      • by N1AK ( 864906 )
        A lot of cars are never really "off" these days, like a lot of electronics, but for the purposes of this discussion its only likely to refer to being ready to move. Whoever came up with this scenario honestly seems to think it's plausible that parked cars will be designed to move away from people walking towards them, in order for them to do the same with a bear, but no one in their right mind would even think to consider doing it.
      • Actually, I'm Canadian. And even if you are idling to get the car warm, it should still be in Park with the autonomous control OFF.
        • I'd agree that locking the vehicle, securing the windows, and setting the transmission to "park" are basic safety measures for a parked car. But I'd not call it "OFF" with the heater, air conditioner, or possibly radio or digital mapping in use. Would you?

    • A parked car should be OFF. There is no reason for an autonomous car to be idling.

      I bet nobody has ever thought of an autonomous car that could start itself. You should apply for a patent.

      • I don't think starting on its own, at its own "choice" should be possible. If woken from the key fob, like when making it open up for the passenger or when being summoned from a remote parking area? Sure. But not just sitting in a parking lot somewhere.

        I can only think of one reason for a car to need the ability to just wake up on its own and start moving. Having a car that has a timer to come fetch its passenger on a schedule might have its uses. But a car that wakes up and starts moving on its own simpl

    • by tragedy ( 27079 )

      There is no reason for an autonomous car to be idling.

      "Idling"? These systems will be on new cars, it's not likely they will have such a thing as "idling". That's not just electric cars. Various newer cars are coming with stop-start systems that automatically stop the engine instead of idling. My mother recently had a rental with a system like that. It was basically seamless. I'm pretty certain a lot of future ICE's will do that since it's a relatively cheap trick to improve gas mileage.

    • EVs don't idle (although I think your post is otherwise correct).

  • The answer to will a bear get a Tesla and drive somewhere, depends on an answer to another question...

    Does a bear shit in a Tesla?

  • The human hiker has left the autonomous vehicle and has trekked somewhere deep in the woods

    If you do that, you'll come back to a pile of glass on the ground and a ransacked car.
  • I have this image of coming back to the parking lot and finding my car has run away from a bear and left me with no way home. I personally would never accept a self-driving car without an override mode. I have driven down too many country roads that were not on the GPS map. I do not trust an AI to drive on snow covered roads or in a heavy thunder storm and I also do not trust them to pull over.
    • Well, obviously no one who is remotely familiar with programming would dream of entrusting their safety - let alone their family's - to such a contraption.

      Airliners and even fighters are much simpler use cases.

      • Well, obviously no one who is remotely familiar with programming would dream of entrusting their safety - let alone their family's - to such a contraption.

        Airliners and even fighters are much simpler use cases.

        And they all have manual backups

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 07, 2021 @03:04PM (#61966397)

    Then they can handle oversized, genetically lazy omnivores who spend months at a time parked in their den.

  • And next you have this:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-a... [ssl-images-amazon.com]

  • I couldn't bear to watch.

  • Send a tweet to Elon. He'll see that "Bear Mode" is added to Teslas. Bear Mode will limit the movement to a small radius so that the hiker may find the car where he or she left it.
  • How can AI cars handle manually-directed traffic? You know, a road crew or police officer directing cars around construction or an accident using flags, flares, hand signals, or whatnot.
  • Any decent driving AI that we could build in the next years will consume a LOT of energy. There is no way that could be let running while the car is parked.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      while the car is parked

      Parked? With what the city is charging for parking, I'm going to pop into Starbucks and tell the car to circle the block until I'm ready to leave.

      • by ghoul ( 157158 )
        Maybe it could go do a rideshare while you buy coffee. It should pay the cost of the coffee
    • by tragedy ( 27079 )

      Any decent driving AI that we could build in the next years will consume a LOT of energy. There is no way that could be let running while the car is parked.

      For a parked car? That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? There are plenty of cheap (from a power perspective) ways to figure out if something is moving nearby and only ramp up the actual heavy computation when some threshold is crossed.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Sunday November 07, 2021 @05:35PM (#61966747)

    That would boost sales.

  • The thing approaching the AV is irrelevant. Anything that approaches the AV that is not a passenger could trigger the vehicle to go into motion. Bear, criminal, shopping cart, whatever...

  • When you have universal deployment the obscure edge case that happens one time in a million happens to someone every day. I would worry less about bears than failures in object recognition in self-driving mode (Truck parked across the road == horizon already killed a guy when the car kept driving into it). My company requires an insurance-company mandated gps/camera system which has an AI function that yells at you when it thinks you're doing something wrong. One day it started yelling "reduce following distance" even though I was following the van in front of me at a perfectly safe distance. I think it mistook the tall van with its high contrast bumper and roofline trim for a smaller sedan and thought it was much closer to me than it really was. I would be very worried if that system was controlling the car and making driving decisions that way. What other edge cases was it never trained on? Maybe you find out by crashing into one. I think when my current personal car dies I will go looking for someone with a 90's era Ford Ranger to sell me.
  • So what happens if you are in an area with no reception (you know, like the wilderness) and your car isn't where you left it because a bear chased it down the road?

  • by mcswell ( 1102107 ) on Sunday November 07, 2021 @11:26PM (#61967371)

    The bear gets in the back seat and falls asleep. Hiker returns, doesn't look in the back seat, starts driving off. Hiker looks in the rear view mirror...

    Another scenario, made possible by the fact that you won't need a drivers' license to drive around in a self-driving car:

    Papa hiker: "Someone's been driving in my car!"

    Mama hiker: "Someone's been driving in my car!"

    Baby hiker: "Someone's been driving in my car, and she's' in there now!"

  • Wow, it's April 1st already? Where does the time go?

  • "Hiker starved in remote forest after their self-driving car fled from a bear"
  • Just use a Russian:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • by Traf-O-Data-Hater ( 858971 ) on Monday November 08, 2021 @07:37AM (#61967943)
    In Australia self driving cars tested by Volvo have been very confused by kangaroos. Their unique motion means the car can't adjust to the animal, which normally properly detects deer, elk and caribou:
    https://www.theguardian.com/te... [theguardian.com]
  • tldr but this humorist is bananas. How about avoiding deer? A real problem. I know people who have hit deer (and almost everyone in my state has had the experience of seeing a deer stopped in the roa looking at your oncoming beams at night) and it is an extremely dangerous, traumatic experience. I think I saw an ad showing some high end car with a thermal image of a deer but don't know if it was real or not.

    I always wished for a car that could avoid them and this would have been a primary purchase deciding

  • Truly autonomous cars will not exist for at least 30 years. AI is just nowhere near good enough. Driving under "normal" circumstances, yeah, ok, within maybe 5 years. Add snow, nope.

  • A second question is whether the bears might figure out how to communicate with the AI driving system. You know, bears are pretty sharp.

    It would have to be smarter than the average bear!

  • Self-driving cars cannot handle city streets. With people and critters suddenly running out between parked cars. Or, my favorite example, the street near me with three narrow lanes, none marked, with one lane for parking, the street's two-ways, and, oh, yes, city buses go on it. Half the idiots with their oversized SUVs can handle that.

    And before some moron goes on about cities, 80% of the US population live in metro areas.

    • People can't handle cities either. 42,060 deaths happened due to cars in the US last year. 6,412 of those were from pedestrians. Serious non-fatal hospitalizations are typically about 8 times that and ER visits are 100 times that based on CDC tracking. Estimates for dogs and cats are staggering at 6 and 26 million respectively killed each year. Again all estimates based on US numbers but some have wildly different dates and qualities since we tend to track human deaths better than broken bones and Fluffy.

      Cr
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Clearly this author has read Terry Bisson's 1990 short story, "Bears Discover Fire [wikipedia.org]". Possibly read it one time too often?

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