Survey Shows Europeans Not Done Quitting Jobs (bloomberg.com) 108
Quit a day job to do TikTok full-time? Why not, say some Europeans. From a report: About one in 10 are considering leaving their main job in the next six months and instead earning money from social media, e-commerce or trading platforms, according to a Morgan Stanley poll of 12,500 people. "The received wisdom is that as Covid subsides, and with modest extra flexibility from employers, the majority of people will re-embrace their prior routines," a team of Morgan Stanley economists and equity analysts wrote in a note. "Our data suggest otherwise." With labor shortages already weighing on Europe's economic rebound, wage inflation will persist for longer if the Great Resignation -- the post-pandemic trend of people leaving the workforce -- carries on, the bank said. "It reveals a far greater potential risk of structurally higher wages," Morgan Stanley wrote.
Oh yeah I'm considering too (Score:5, Funny)
For years, in fact. Any day I'm going to quick my corporate job and become an instagram underwear model! And if that fails, there's always bitcoin of course.
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For years, in fact. Any day I'm going to quick my corporate job and become an instagram underwear model! And if that fails, there's always bitcoin of course.
Why not combine them both? Come to work in your underwear and hand out flyers directing anyone interested to the purchasing site.
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How does one make money off Tik-Tok?
Do they run ads and you get a cut off it like YouTube or the like?
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You become and influenza that peddles junk to kids and gets paid for that from the manufacturers of said junk.
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Influenza...I see what you did there.
Good one Centurion!!
Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:1)
And when the bubble on this bursts, it's going to be UGLY.
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It's already ugly, these people are quitting because their jobs aren't serving their needs.
It's almost like permitting employers to pay less than a living wage leads to negative outcomes.
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No, bad choices lead to negative outcomes. There's plenty of jobs that could serve their needs without being questionable.
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No, bad choices lead to negative outcomes.
You mean bad choices like permitting employers to pay less than a living wage? I agree.
There's plenty of jobs that could serve their needs without being questionable.
[citation needed]
Remember, your citation has to demonstrate a sufficient number of real jobs paying a living wage for all of these quitters in order to qualify. Rots of ruck!
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While I would argue that not ALL jobs are meant to be the basis to earn a living (many are starter jobs, etc)....can you name a large number of non-living wage jobs out there, that should be?
I mean, I'm sorry, but burger flipper isn't what I'd consider a career job that you are meant to support yourself much less a family.
That's only a step above pay
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Mod parent up, except the name tag part doesn't apply in all cases. Flight attendants, for instance, wear name tag, But the idea is absolutely absurd that completely unskilled work should sustain a living.
What REALLY needs to happen is for the wage of such workers to be subsidized by the government for a short period of time (1-2 years) while the government forces them to attend some classes (of any kind. Woodworking, metal working, accounting. whatever) to convert them from unskilled worker to skilled
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Sweet idea, but 10% of a population is so challenged by anything approaching barely skilled labor (traditionally, lowest rung of US Army enlistee) that they will never "convert". After that 1-2 years, what happens then?
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Re: Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:2)
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If you want to give me free college to gain skills that will land me a job that makes more then 65k a years, I'd be thrilled. Unfortunately, a slew of places, some requiring degrees, won't even bother to pay me 50k.
As always, plenty of jobs but most are not worth your time if you need to support the entire ship. It's fine as supplement or play money though.
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Not everyone in the service industry makes bad wages but we all kind of are expected to have a name badge. Heck, a store manager of any grocery store or Target or Walmart wears a name badge. None of them are being paid poorly.
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While I would argue that not ALL jobs are meant to be the basis to earn a living (many are starter jobs, etc)....can you name a large number of non-living wage jobs out there, that should be?
I mean, I'm sorry, but burger flipper isn't what I'd consider a career job that you are meant to support yourself much less a family.
That's only a step above paying the neighborhood kid a living wage and offering benefits just to mow my yard every other week.. Not all jobs are meant to live off of....
I would posit that if your job, as an adult, requires you to wear a name tag, there is a really good chance you made some vocational errors along your path and maybe you should take steps to remedy that.
You know, the appropriate exercise is to look at the number of jobs available, see what percent of those are failing to pay a living wage, and then see if those numbers to line up against what you would find acceptable for the percentage of the population supported by workers to be living in poverty. I don't know about you, but 44 percent of the jobs available in 2012-2016 [cbsnews.com] seems a bit too fucking high for me. Almost like there's a problem. Maybe you can persuade yourself that there's an "average person" and
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I'm sorry, but burger flipper isn't what I'd consider a career job that you are meant to support yourself much less a family.
That's because you're a monster. You believe that people who are not smart or skilled and lucky enough to land a job worth having do not deserve to survive.
The explicit point of the minimum wage in America was that it be a living wage, because anything less is effectively slavery. It's actually more beneficial for employers because they don't have to feed you, but they still get to spend less on you than it actually costs to maintain you. This is obviously unsustainable but the whole concept has billions of
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If I could get a "livable wage" working at a high school drop out job, why would I spend money on student loans for an education I don't really need if all jobs were to pay a "livable wage"?
As it is, I do work a fairly lowly yet essential job but it's union with great benefits and comparable national average wages. I would of likely moved on but it affords me a condo 26 miles from the beaches of San Diego. Far enough away from the noise but close enough for the fun.
If you work a job that doesn't earn you a
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If I could get a "livable wage" working at a high school drop out job, why would I spend money on student loans for an education I don't really need if all jobs were to pay a "livable wage"?
Maybe you don't want to just scrape by. Want a Ferrari or a bigger house or nice holiday someplace or etc etc.?
There are still plenty of shitty jobs people don't like, but still need to be done. They don't necessarily have to come with a shitty life too.
If you work a job that doesn't earn you a living wage, you may need to find a new job instead of complaining your current job sucks.
And if there aren't enough jobs. Then what?
And if there are enough and everyone takes one. Who will do the shitty jobs we need done now?
We're right back at the start having to pay more money for the shitty jobs. So just do that then.
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Re: Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:3)
Social media influencer is basically code for "professional narcissist". I personally don't see the economic value of a large number of people moving from something productive to creating a shrine to themselves while treating anybody who doesn't worship them like shit.
Re: Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:2)
https://www.someecards.com/lif... [someecards.com]
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the average Slashdotter turns their nose up at something like a social media thing.
I'd assume that's because a good portion of this site's readership has well-paid jobs, and that sort of income level is really difficult to replicate if you go freelance.
No matter what someone ends up doing (social media "work", gig economy jobs, and/or more traditional self-employed trades), they mostly have to value their freedom more than money, because the majority of people who work for themselves don't get rich doing it. Obviously, I'm referring to when someone is self-employed as an independent cont
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Err...I've worked for years as the sole employee of my S-Corp doing contracting in IT, and while no, I'm not wealthy, I bill out well into the 6 digit territory annually.
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>even if the average Slashdotter turns their nose up at something like a social media thing.
That's because the majority of people who try to become popular fail. It is not a good bet for a career.
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If there were that many good jobs, those poorly paid jobs wouldn't exist.
There is always a poorly-paid job (well, until full automation sets in) for somebody to do. "Clean-up in Isle 5" and "Welcome to Wendy's. What would you like?" won't go away for any time soon.
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No, bad choices lead to negative outcomes.
I wish the real world were that fair. It'd be the sort of world that John Calvin believed God created, despite evidence to the contrary.
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No, bad choices lead to negative outcomes.
I wish the real world were that fair. It'd be the sort of world that John Calvin believed God created, despite evidence to the contrary.
That's literally the opposite of what John Calvin believed, but ok.
Re:Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:5, Insightful)
It's almost like permitting employers to pay less than a living wage leads to negative outcomes.
It shows the opposite. Given a choice between paying more and letting jobs disappear, companies are letting the jobs disappear.
So a government mandate to require a "living wage" for marginal jobs will lead to the elimination of many of those jobs.
It is better to let the market sort this out. If you think you can earn a living on TikTok, then go for it. But let's not destroy the jobs of people who want to stay employed.
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It is better to let the market sort this out. If you think you can earn a living on TikTok, then go for it.
Alll good and well. But after the attempt to "earn a living on TikTok" has failed, which is what will invariably happen in at least 90% of all instances, these people are back in the market for the non-existant jobs that have just been done away with.
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which is what will invariably happen in at least 90% of all instances
You're being generous. My guess would be 98%.
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Re: Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:2)
For the most part, I'm with you - except that it's not just cheapie jobs that are going unfilled. A large defense contractor here in town is looking for EEs, MEs, and SW guys by the hundreds (but it's not particularly sexy new-techy work, requires a clearance, and can't be remote).
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"Requires a clearance" implies requires routine drug testing. And that just cut the employment pool way down. No weekend joints ever again. Even a joint at the beginning of a two week vacation is problematic.
And the other pet peeve of mine is finally working out of the system. Entry level jobs that require 5 years of experience. Management is finally grudgingly admitting they have to pay more more for experience or provide training.
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You are completely disillusioned if you think working 10 hours/week on TikTok is going to get you $1200/month. From this [twomillionways.com] page:
On average, A TikToker with half a million followers with good engagement in the comments and likes can get paid around $450 a month.
1/2 mil followers is nothing to sneeze at. I doubt more than 2% of the people intending to make a living have more than that.
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I think one of the things coming out of the pandemic is it forced people to go looking for new jobs and many of those people found better paying jobs with better benefits and the option to work from home. You may have noticed that the lack of candidates for open jobs is almost entirely at the bottom of the pay tier. Companies paying good wages are having no difficulty finding people, it is fast food and small business Ma and Pop shops that seem to be struggling with finding people will to work for $7.25 an hour.
I think you are spot on point.
Now I do suspect that there is a bit of a spectrum. People leaving for better paying work, people leaving for the change, and people leaving to go back to live with Mom and Dad.
But if a company wants to pay rock bottom prices, they are really going to have problems. The disruption the virus caused has had a weird side effect of increasing pay overall. I guess that some folks can try for that 1 in a million TikTok career, or do Pr0n on OnlyFans. But neither of those are ac
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I guess that some folks can try for that 1 in a million TikTok career, or do Pr0n on OnlyFans. But neither of those are actual careers.
True, those are not true careers, but then neither is selling cupcakes, flipping burger or selling cigarettes at a gas station for $7.25 an hour.
No argument there. And let's face it, OnlyFans people making money are overwhelmingly female. But there is a real time limit on the value.
The thing that becomes an issue though is that there are a fair number of people who aren't all that able to work much past those menial jobs. There is also a subset of people who could do better, but don't have much drive. The low drive people might be able to be stimulated into better jobs.
As we automate more and more jobs, we're going to have to figure out what to
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IDK, if you looked like some of those porn stars, Im' sure you could work a day job and also have porn as your side gig. I'll readily admit I wish I could just sell nudes of myself and make lots of money.
Turns out, that's really only for a handful of people that won the genetic lottery in physical appearances.
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Yep, what you said.
Mom and Pop places seem to often survive on the backs of Mom and Pop. The folks who work there are there because they have no other choice (like kids who are conscripted to work at the store). The wages are small because Mom and Pop don't really know how to run a business, or are providing a function that doesn't merit enough to others.
When Mom and Pop have to pay prevailing wages, Mom and Pop collapses. C'est la vie.
There is literally a Nobel prize given (Score:2)
We let the market sort this out. It got its Black Friday. Not the fun shopping kind. The 15 year recession that required a world war to end it kind. I'm a capitalist, but the free market needs help, or it dies, giving way to fascism.
God damn android keyboard (Score:2)
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That's a FEATURE, not being able to edit your posts. I would of thought you would of understood this by now.
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Minimum wages do not cause unemployment.
A blanket statement like that is clearly nonsense: If we increase the minimum wage to $1000 per hour there will be job losses.
The best the evidence shows is that a small increase didn't cause job losses in one city for existing businesses with large sunk costs.
Raising the minimum wage cause plenty of job losses in Puerto Rico [washingtonpost.com].
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Minimum wages do not cause unemployment.
A blanket statement like that is clearly nonsense: If we increase the minimum wage to $1000 per hour there will be job losses.
And a strawman like yours is equally nonsense.
Nobody is proposing to increase the minimum to $1000 an hour.
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It's already ugly, these people are quitting because their jobs aren't serving their needs.
It's almost like permitting employers to pay less than a living wage leads to negative outcomes.
Paying people to not work results in more people not working. Paying people a lot to not work results in lots of people not working.
An economy consists of people making and doing things - things that other people want (as defined by their willingness to pay money for them). A government can pump numbers into computers all they want. But it will only result in inflation (which, surprise, it is).
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What do you consider a living wage? And should every job pay a living wage? And is rate of a living wage equal to a person or a family? If family, does that mean that employers should be required to pay more when they hire people with families?
My wife works a second job for extra money. Should that job be required to also pay her a living wage? Or should people no longer be allowed to work second jobs for extra money?
Is there any job that should be considered a starter/high school job or should all job
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IMO any full-time job (whatever full-time means in the area) that is done by a person of average health, should pay a living wage. While a disabled person may not be able to do as much (though it really depends on the job and the disability), the job should still pay a living wage, but this time with the help of the government.
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You still are not defining what a livable wage is. Should that wage be enough for the person working or their entire family? If the latter, should people with families be paid more?
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It's already ugly, these people are quitting because their jobs aren't serving their needs.
You mean they actually have to go there every day and do something in order to get paid? Yeah, that's a real bummer.
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This is why it's called a "job".
Not a "passtime".
Re:Bubble bubble toil and trouble (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a result of the Cheap Labor bubble popping.
We have a recession, I would any one within the past 50 years. Buts lets go with the 2008 recession
Company layoffs workers due to poor business because of the recession.
A rise in unemployment, people need money to do jobs, so they apply for jobs they are over qualified for, because they need the money.
Companies that were able to weather the recession get highly skilled employees, for a lower skilled job, so they get really good workers for less.
The company knows the employee is higher skilled, so they often give them jobs to match their skill, but keep them at their lower salary position.
Because other companies are doing this, that means the employee with their skill level cannot find an other job which they can promote up, because everyone else in their skill level is in the same boat.
So that position becomes inflated with its skill requirements, but the employee price remains low.
Employees are not being paid what they are worth, so they cut back on spending, which creates an other recession.
However when the pandemic hit, a lot of these companies were so focused on cost savings, that they didn't have the money to hold onto their employees during the hard times, so they had let them go, in large numbers. Now that business came back, they just can't bring back most of the people they had let go, because many had found an other job, or decided to go to school, or change careers. So now they either have to hire people with lower than what they are use to in skill sets, or pay more for the jobs, because the High Skilled Low Cost employee bubble had popped. Now that these companies are paying a lot more for these jobs, employees at other companies are leaving their old jobs to a new higher paid one, or trying to make it on their own.
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Yep.
+1 Insightful
Even the smart kid at the Pizza place is getting that now.
More likely (Score:5, Insightful)
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...or so employers hope.
Only that this is Europe, which has a mostly functioning social network. Slave labor doesn't fly here, at least not as well as in the US.
Re:More likely (Score:5, Informative)
...or so employers hope.
Regardless of that, this is what is likely to happen. All the social media work is attractive on the surface since you theoretically can make a living making a few videos a week or streaming yourself play a game but a) it's actually work and b) the people you see making millions on this are the 0.1%.
A few people share what they make on youtube, and for example Dave of EEVBlog, had about 400k subscribers and pulled about 40k/yr. Not terrible for making videos at home of course, but it took him like 7 years to get there and he can earning way more than that as an electrical engineer. And starting out you have no idea if 7 years down the road you'll even make this.
Unless you're a hot chick who's into games, cars or other areas dominated by horny dudes that is, then it's a bit easier apparently.
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That's pretty much the problem here. Everyone who probably could make a living making YouTube videos could probably also earn more with a real job.
And yes, porn actress is something I'd consider a real job.
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1 in 10 have dreams of quitting their jobs and making money on social media or e-commerce platforms. Maybe 1 in 50 try it, and half of those end up back in normal employment in under six months.
Sources to back those numbers?
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There are huge labour shortages in the UK, in many sectors. It's a good time to switch jobs. People are getting lots of emails and calls from recruiters.
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Well, technically, working at an Amazon warehouse is making money on an e-commerce platform.
Probably not what people had in mind, but that's what they are the most likely to get.
Did the Europeans (Score:2)
Get a wad of cash from the government also? Or do they just not want to work like the rest of us.
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Get a wad of cash from the government also? Or do they just not want to work like the rest of us.
The powerful, all-encompassing welfare state in Western Europe surely contributes to this. If you're not particularly ambitious and can live without expensive luxuries, why work if the state is going to put you in decent housing, give you enough food, and even some spending cash? It basically voids 2nd Thessalonians 3:10 - "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.".
I've got a big problem letting the able bodied (and able-minded) live off the s
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I am not a fan of welfare (unless it's to help people get back on their feet in tough times, I think it's also important to recognize that there are some people that will never be able to get back on their feet, we should support those people like this: https://newsroom.churchofjesus... [churchofjesuschrist.org]. I think this view is fair for everyone, everyone falls on tough times).
But what I mean by not working is: wouldn't it be nice if we all didn't have to work? I would still work, but it would be nice if it were on my terms
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If most people didn't bother working, how would you get your food and clothing, or maintenance done for your stuff? How would your stuff be made? Sorry, but people working is the only reason you have stuff to do.
If the future is robots making everything and we all don't have to work unless we want to, then we will also have to go on rations because there isn't enough resources in the world for everyone to have everything.
You would need to put in for a time slot to travel or visit places because EVERYONE can
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Fusion is coming... possibly in the next 5 years.
You can still have markets. (Score:2)
If the future is robots making everything and we all don't have to work unless we want to, then we will also have to go on rations because there isn't enough resources in the world for everyone to have everything.
The robots would certainly be able to make more than the people they replaced or why replace them.
So there will be as least as much stuff as we have now. Robots could make other robots to make even more stuff.
As to allocating that stuff.
We could give everyone tokens, and they could use those tokens to bid on the things and experiences they want in some kind of free market. Different people would prioritize different things. Supply and demand would work out who gets what. Everyone wants to go to Disneylan
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And I was always wondering where the Nazis cribbed that "useless eaters" line from.
Should've known.
Re: Did the Europeans (Score:2)
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Employers pay low wages at such a level that the government has to offer some top-ups to people who ARE working but cannot afford to live
Why is their labor worth so little? Is there a huge unemployed labor supply?
Around here, even the the low-end retail and fast food places are offering double minimum wage or so, with large signing bonuses in many cases. Unemployment is super low right now, and employers are valuing labor as a scarce resource.
Re: Did the Europeans (Score:1)
A bible reference ?? Really ?? So you're justifying being a prick with some Bronze Age superstitious rantings ?
You mixing fabrics and eating shellfish too ? Got any tattoos ?
Fuck.
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Get a wad of cash from the government also? Or do they just not want to work like the rest of us.
No I don't believe anyone got money just because. People who've been laid off or couldn't get a job had the normal unemployment support, and some specific industries like hospitality got a handout for being shut down.
People just don't want to work because work sucks.
I did it (Score:5, Interesting)
I still get requests for job interviews from tech firms. I do not reply. One company sent a pushy reminder that I did not respond and that they really need me. It ended with the CEO demanding to know why I was not interested. Know... your... place...
I loved my previous job, but work culture made me leave. I am maybe one of the few that took action, but a lot are seriously thinking about it.
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My SO is a teacher but trained in engineering, whom I have more than once (in vain, I might add) tried to persuade to change careers again.
YMMV, but what they expect teachers to do today is rather quite a plateful from my point of view, and it very much depends on where you are whether that kind of contribution is actually valued by the public as much as it should be. From what I can tell, other than in the Scandi countries, teachers hardly e
Re: I did it (Score:2)
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In my early work years it was easier to buy into the notion that you were actually part of the company, it actually felt like it at least. Maybe I was young and naive, but I've been reminded way to often in recent years that I'm thought of like a disposable resource. The script has been flipped from one of sharing a common goal of company/customer success, to one where things are much more transactional. I work for a salary, my employment "contract" here in the states is At-Will employment (i.e. severabl
Re:I did it (Score:4, Insightful)
My grandfather worked for the same company from the time he was an apprentice there to his retirement. He worked hard, and he liked working. Not because there was any kind of "special" relationship or even a sense of equality between bosses and workers, his boss was always "Herr Direktor" to him and he was always "Mr. Hislastname" to his boss.
But his boss actually did care, at least least he was good at faking it. He knew his workers. Which wasn't that big an investment in brainpower, they didn't change a lot. He knew about their family situation and he always went through the factory hall and talked to the people. Yes, there was a HUGE level difference between them in terms of status and position, and you did not question that, but at the same time the people working there felt valued and taken serious as humans, my grandfather told me he never felt like his boss considered him replaceable, he was part of the "worker family".
Today, companies try to level the "status" field, you talk informally to your boss, but in the end you feel like he doesn't give a fuck about you. You don't get to see them and frankly, I have a hunch that my boss-boss (i.e. the person two hierarchy level above me) doesn't even know I exist.
Not that I mind, because I invest as much emotion into this company as he probably invests in me. I have a contract with them. I uphold my side as long as they uphold theirs. But of course, you can't expect loyalty from your staff if you treat them like they're replaceable assets.
With an growing question mark on that "asset".
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Re: I did it (Score:3)
Looks like Andy Wharhol was right (Score:2)
He famously said that one day everyone will be world famous for 15 minutes. With YouTube and TikTok that is largely true. People that would otherwise be completely unknown now can have millions of views of their videos. There is really barrier to entry, once you have a cellphone with a camera and an internet connection to upload the video. It seems like most of the YouTube videos I watch are 10-15 minutes in length so Andy was spot on.
Bosses are worried (Score:2)
Our corporate masters are worried that they won't have enough slaves to exploit. That, and inflation will increase their costs.
It's good to see people walking away from the grindstone.
In the end, it's about the value your labor brings (Score:2)
If you're going to quit your job because you don't feel like you're properly compensated, great. But the solution isn't to just find some fun way to spend time on social media from home, or to pretend you can get rich quick just by putting up an e-commerce site and selling widgets online.
The people who were truly successful doing any of those things were exceptions to the rule, who figured out a need or want that wasn't filled, and filled it. And the more time that's passed, the more of those voids have alr
To translate... (Score:5, Interesting)
"It reveals a far greater potential risk of structurally higher wages," Morgan Stanley wrote.
To me that reads "oh, shit. This whole paying people more money thing isn't just a phase and is here to stay!"
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Yeah, that is terrible. The CEO might have to make do with 5 meter shorter super yacht. The horror!
Higher wage risk (Score:2)
It reveals a far greater potential risk of structurally higher wages
Only A Business Bank Deals In Absolutes
Colonial loot will run out pretty soon (Score:1)