Citing Fires, London's Transport Agency Bans E-scooters on Public Transit Network (theverge.com) 47
Transport for London announced a ban on all e-scooters on its network, effective December 13th, over safety concerns following recent fires. The ban will apply to all public transport in London, including underground trains and buses. From a report: E-scooters are currently banned on UK roads and sidewalks, but shops can still sell them for use on private land. The only legal e-scooters in use in London are the ones part of rental trials that started over the summer. The ban does not include mobility scooters that are permitted on TfL's network, and foldable e-bikes are still permitted.
"We have been extremely worried by the recent incidents on our public transport services, which involved intense fires and considerable smoke and damage," said TfL's chief safety, health, and environment officer Lilli Matson. "We have worked with London Fire Brigade to determine how we should deal with these devices and, following that review, we have decided to ban them. Customers who try to bring them onto our network will be refused access to our stations and premises, and not be permitted to use any of our services."
"We have been extremely worried by the recent incidents on our public transport services, which involved intense fires and considerable smoke and damage," said TfL's chief safety, health, and environment officer Lilli Matson. "We have worked with London Fire Brigade to determine how we should deal with these devices and, following that review, we have decided to ban them. Customers who try to bring them onto our network will be refused access to our stations and premises, and not be permitted to use any of our services."
Can't handle the competition, eh? (Score:3)
Seriously, how do you expect to be able to stick it to the people who can't afford a car when they can get where they need to go without having to spend money on mass transit?
What in the name of Saint Peter (Score:5, Insightful)
Banning them makes sense. But from there you put stricter regulation on imports and standards so that you can lift the ban. It's really that simple.
Everyone always jumps to "gov't bad!" way, way too soon. There's a real culture of defeat in the world, like we can't solve problems. It's way more than just cynicism. It's like emo but form Adults and has real world consequences.
Re: (Score:2)
But from there you put stricter regulation on imports and standards so that you can lift the ban. It's really that simple.
No, it isn't that simple. If the goal is to force the cheap imports to improve, only the cheap imports would be banned. Instead, the policy is "ban them all," including higher quality scooters made in the UK or EU.
Everyone always jumps to "gov't bad!" way, way too soon.
In this case, way too late. Now that the ban is in place, bureaucratic inertia means it will never be repealed.
There's a real culture of defeat in the world, like we can't solve problems.
What about problems like global warming? Banning e-scooters is a step backward on that.
Re: (Score:2)
Your thinking is very ridged. You're working backwards from your conclusions. You should take care with that...
Re: (Score:2)
The policy is ban them all because they can't tell the good from the bad
Nonsense. They know which brands are catching fire. They can give permits to those with reliable e-scooters.
I have a permit for my bicycle. To get it, I had to go to the transit station and take a quick quiz to ensure I understood the rules. I show my permit when I pass through the gate.
A permit to transport an e-scooter can work the same. Take the scooter to the transit station, they check it is one of the safe models, and then give you a sticker for the scooter or a card for your wallet.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They're a transit agency, not "the government" (even if they're owned by a government.) They can't give permits to anyone.
To Bill, anyone telling him what to do is the government.
Re: (Score:2)
TfL might decide that it's just too damned expensive to work, and stick with a
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, consumers need to demand LFP batteries. The range will take a hit, but they won't burn your house down... and they'll be cheaper. Not to mention, these scooters aren't really hurting for range already. Most already are more than sufficient.
Ironically it's not just price pressure or these cheap Chinese death traps would be LFP already and incredibly safe.
Re: (Score:2)
Pay attention. If you're banning imports - which is one progressing strand - then you are NOT going to affect the import of scooters made in the UK because, errr, they're not imported from the UK to the UK.
Ones made in the EU would, however, be affected by an import ban, because they are imported into the UK from the EU. Unless they travel over the non-border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland and the
Re: (Score:3)
The only way to stop bad products from coming in would be to basically blockcade China.
If you say "only LiFePO batteries allowed", they will write "LiFePO" on all their batteries. If you have a certification system, they will print fake logos on all their products (like they already do with FCC, Council of Europe certification logos, etc.) If you ban certain brands they will change brand names because brand names are just decoration to them anyway. If you only allow certain brands they will print that brand
Re: (Score:2)
Then shift the blame on those who bought this cheap and dangerous stuff.
For example if we can prove that it's your shitty e-scooter that caught fire in the subway, we'll send you the bill for reconstructing the subway station that burned down.
Re: (Score:2)
And if you bought this e-scooter from a local reputable store, then they should be responsible for importing cheap dangerous stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that unless you're good at spotting shitty, there's no good way to avoid shitty. Yeah maybe don't buy from wish.com, but I get bogus knock-off shit off of Amazon all the time, and it's only through technical proficiency that I can spot it. Hell, there might be some products I'm getting that are outside my wheelhouse that are knockoffs and I just haven't realized.
Generally you expect the shit sold in stores to be authentic and safe, and those stores expect their distributors to be authentic an
Re: (Score:2)
Banning them makes sense. But from there you put stricter regulation on imports and standards so that you can lift the ban. It's really that simple.
I totally agree that regulation is needed. Any product using a high energy density battery should pass tests to make sure it is not a fire hazard. Unfortunately, even if there is legislation requiring tests, there is no guarantee that will actually happen, or that suppliers of dodgy kit will be prosecuted. Good luck trying to press charges on a Chinese manufacturer, who has probably already disappeared.
The Grenfell Tower fire in London occurred despite there being standards for cladding on high rise buildin
Re: (Score:1)
The government pushes you to use public transport, so it can control everything you eat (verboten), drink (verboten), or bring on the train (verboten).
Soon, you'll need to be stripsearched before getting on the underground.
UK, you got what you voted for.
(laughs in American).
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, how do you expect to be able to stick it to the people who can't afford a car when they can get where they need to go without having to spend money on mass transit?
Firstly, this is London we're talking about. Public transport isn't some expensive unaffordable shitshow. Secondly, only e-scooters are banned and for a sold reason. There are literally many alternatives if you want to stick it to the london public transport sector. But why would you? What philosophical problem do you have with a company that that reinvests 100% of its profit in expanding and renewing infrastructure for your benefit?
Re: (Score:2)
So... it seems more like a safety thing to
Ok (Score:2, Insightful)
Take a gas guzzling SUV to the train station instead. The useless war on e scooters is toxic. I have never seen one catch fire ever. Instead of banning them, they should have just put a minimum safety criteria based on spontaneous ignition probability. I mean, cell phones catch fire too, are they banned? Heck busses themselves are a fire risk.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> I have never seen one catch fire ever.
And therefore, the problem doesn't exist!
Re: (Score:2)
So your anecdotal evidence of never witnessing a scooter catch fire means they can't? Cheap lithium batteries from China fail all the time. Having one go up in a crowded subway car would be catastrophic for everyone involved. At least the models approved by the city can be inspected and verified for having batteries from known suppliers.
Re: (Score:1)
What are the stats? Fires per vehicle, etc.
Re: (Score:3)
Instead of banning them, they should have just put a minimum safety criteria based on spontaneous ignition probability. I mean, cell phones catch fire too, are they banned? Heck busses themselves are a fire risk.
A burning escooter has about 250 watt-hours of energy to burn; a 2500 mAh cellphone battery (3.8V) has only 10 watt-hours of energy. So the fire will be 25x worse with an escooter than a cellphone. The thought of an escooter fire in the underground is pretty scary. I still remember the awful news reports of the King's Cross fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Ok (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Ok, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I'm glad I could help!
Re: (Score:3)
I'll take my gas powered one on instead (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, strictly that does include, for example, the fuel in your camping stove when you're
Re: I'll take my gas powered one on instead (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Do tell us when you're going to try taking your gas-powered scooter on public transport. I could do with a good laugh.
Third Wave of Demand, Battery Safety Compromised (Score:4, Insightful)
This was a problem in 2015/2016 when everyone was buying "hoverboards" (segways without wheels). Unscrupulous manufacturers got crappy batteries and they caught fire.
Then in 2018, all the scootershare companies were doing whatever it took to get more scooters on the road... including cutting battery safety corners. And those caught fire.
Now, people are buying their OWN e-scooters. Cheaply. And they're only cheap by cutting quality corners so, THOSE will have some fires as well.
Re: Third Wave of Demand, Battery Safety Compromis (Score:2)
Batteries (Score:3)
Why not just outlaw piece of shit batteries.
deep tube lines (Score:4, Informative)
For those who don't know London, the deep tube line tunnels are barely wider than the train itself and it is *impossible* to evacuate a train other than via the front/rear drivers cabs outside of a station.
It's one of the reasons why, even if the emergency handle is pulled, the train will continue to the next station.
Any fire in a carriage would be serious.
A fire in an escalator in 1987 killed 31 people.
Re: (Score:2)
Itâ(TM)s already been banned for years in Cal (Score:2)
California law already prohibits on public transport any motorized device that can carry a person, though you wonâ(TM)t tell by seeing how many are on BART.
I tried to submit this, but . . . (Score:3)
. . . I was using a Samsung phone, and, well, you know . . .
Re: (Score:1)
you wrote that message - so clearly your "joke" didn't work
Re: (Score:1)
A solution waiting for an problem (Score:2)
Recently saw a fire of one (Score:2)
Not sure where I saw it but it was a BIG mess a lot of very very nasty smoke and fire, it was outside near some cars.
It's a shame - they probably make suburban life significantly easier but man it was a hell of a fire.