Toyota is Going To Make You Pay To Start Your Car With Your Key Fob (theverge.com) 272
Toyota is charging drivers for the convenience of using their key fobs to remotely start their cars. From a report: According to a report from The Drive, Toyota models 2018 or newer will need a subscription in order for the key fob to support remote start functionality. As The Drive notes, buyers are given the option to choose from an array of Connected Services when purchasing a new Toyota, and one of those services -- called Remote Connect -- just so happens to include the ability to remotely start your car with your key fob. Buyers are offered a free trial of Remote Connect, but the length of that trial depends on the audio package that's included with the vehicle.
What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
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Your unrelated statistics are irrelevant. Toyota tried blaming driver error, floor mats and everything else they could before they finally admitted fault. Toyota agreed to a $1.2 billion fine to avoid prosecution for their actions in hiding the defects.
Companies don't drop $1.2 billion dollars to make up for customers' errors.
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
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A subscription for the privilege of stepping on the gas pedal? Fcuk you, Toyota.
No, no, no, that would be a safety hazard. Instead they are going with something revolutionary - you can buy custom horn tunes to add a personal touch to otherwise calm road interactions.
Re:What's next? (Score:4, Insightful)
A subscription for the privilege of stepping on the gas pedal? Fcuk you, Toyota.
You're saying that as if the ability to remotely start your car is an integral feature of driving it. Having driven many cars in the past 40 years I can't say I've ever even come across this feature let alone though "damn what do I do now that I actually have to get in the car?"
So your slippery slope fallacy remains just that. A silly fallacy.
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I don't have the problem, but in some colder areas, remote start is damned close to necessary.
The bigger issue is that the "subscription" is for nothing at all. The capability exists and needs no external support to function. Basically, the subscription is an offer to not break a working feature. Just by buying the car, you already paid for all of the factory installed hardware that supports the feature. Rent seeking at it's finest.
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A subscription for the privilege of stepping on the gas pedal? Fcuk you, Toyota.
Regulation sucks, except when shit like this makes it necessary. For this reason I'd be happy to see the EU and the US legislate against this sort of behaviour.
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
"This subscription is for an Internet-connected service that requires maintenance, ownership tracking, etc. That stuff isn't free."
Is it? Doesn't need to be and doesn't add the slightest value being implemented that way. You know what wouldn't require "maintenance, ownership tracking, etc."? Implementing remote start without the internet-connected service. In fact, making it an "internet-connected service" is done specifically to charge a subscription fee for it, and all that "maintenance and tracking" has to do with money collection, not remote starting.
Truly needs a troll mod.
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I think the main thing is that these internet-connected services should be optional and not a required part of using your car. If these are optional, then no normal behaviour should prevent you from using your car. If they are required, then that rental is looking more appealing and should included the subscription in the cost.
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that they updated cars that will no longer be able to have cellular connection for the fob to work without subscription.
The internet-connected service is not required for the non-internet fob to start the car, this is deliberately crippled.
Re:What's next? (Score:4)
Fuck it...just give me an old fashioned KEY that I can unlock the car with, and start it with.
I really don't need much more than that.
Key Start (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure that key-start is an option anymore. Maybe the chip-shortage will get worse ...
I was trying to figure out which EVs support key-start. Where I live, a record number of hacks are being done on keyless vehicles. The thieves have a means of reprogramming the on-board computer and making it accept a new key-fob.
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Re:You know that key start... (Score:5, Informative)
Most 'key' ignitions since the 90s are two part, one is the mechanical pin manipulation of the key, and another is the chip reader (at first it was in the blade of the key making physical contact, then later wireless in the cladded plastic bow of the key.
Whatever the ignition is nowadays, a key isn't any less electronic than a pushbutton now. In fact, pushbutton just is recognizing that the physical key part is redundant with the electronic keys. Granted, the "leave it in your pocket" facet is fancier, but the 'put it in your cupholder if dead' is about the same as the non-physical part of a modern keyed ignition.
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We have used the cloud and internet connectivity as a crutch. We want access to our stuff which may be outside of our short range radio frequency devices, (Blue tooth, internal Wi-Fi) However the way that TCP/IP works we don't want our devices and our homes to have listening ports open in which someone can just try to hack your device.
So we have settled on the cloud model, where each endpoints (your fob, your car) will connect to a server and keep its connection open awaiting for a response or to send a re
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Actually, TCP/IP is perfectly fine with peer to peer operation. Then there's UDP/IP that doesn't even support the concept of connection.
WiFi and bluetooth are a large enough range to support remote-start. If not, there's LoRa.
In cases like this, "the cloud" only serves as a chokepoint so the company can wring more fees out of you. It also serves as a single point of failure.
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TCP/IP was designed for anything to communicate with anything. That was in a day where mini-computers were the size of refrigerators, even up to the year 2000. When we connected to TCP/IP we had a computer fixed in a particular room, and if we were to move to a different location beyond the wires range, we would need to disconnect and reconnect with often new network credentials including getting a new TCP/IP Address, and sometimes different gateways and DHCP and DNS settings.
Back in the 1990's I had to
Re:What's next? (Score:5, Informative)
You are only partially correct. And unfortunately, I'm triggered.
Starting a car with a key fob has nothing to do with an internet connection. It's between the fob and the car using an RF signal. What Toyota is doing is what they did to me when I bought my Lexus in 2020. Everything is in place for remote start to work, it simply has to be enabled. Lexus won't enable it though unless I also buy their version of On-Star called "Enform". The remote start capability is there and it would work if if that setting is enabled...no internet connection necessary. This was confirmed to me by the service manager.
This is really nothing more than a data grab. Lexus, and now parent company, Toyota, are simply interested in getting as much data about you and your driving as they can in order to sell it to third parties. That's it. They collect: Personal Information, Location Data, Driving Data and Vehicle Health Data. This is how they treat their customers...like a product the same way Facebo..eh Meta does. Except you actually pay for the privilege with Toyota.
They used to say that they will not sell your information to insurance companies, but no longer. They cannot say that who they sell it to would not anyway. That's why there's always they disclaimer that they can change the terms of service at any time. I also have ZERO faith in their ability to secure that data. Toyota/Lexus technology (non-automotive, like infotainment) is abysmal. Those people simply have no idea what they are doing, particularly when it comes to user interface, but if you can't even get that right...
Finally, while my Lexus is well-built, likely cost-effective to maintain, and offers a reasonably performant drive; I will never buy another one and will warn anyone who is willing to listen to seriously reconsider if they are thinking of buying one.
I did not expect to be treated so poorly from Toyota's higher-end line with regard to the data collection, and that's the first BIG problem. Secondly, and this took a few weeks to figure out, the interior design is beyond frustrating. It's like the design was done by the nephew of some senior VP at the company that a middle manager was forced to green-light. A nephew that normally takes the train. There are no easy-access trays for holding your phone or sunglasses. Everything outside of two cups has to go under your arm in the center console, so both you and your front passenger have to adjust to lift that up and pull out whatever it is you may need...while driving your 4000 pound car at 75 mph down the highway. If you want Android Auto, you have to plug it in...no wireless capability. And since the infortainment system is completely useless, you really do need to use CarPlay or Auto.
The physical buttons are all over the place and most don't make any sense. It has a heated steering wheel. Want to turn it on? The button isn't on the steering wheel, it's in a small group of buttons down by your left knee. They are unlit and in a dark area. There are three clocks. THREE! Why? Not only does the infotainment system make no sense, the display behind the steering wheel is just as frustrating and nonsensicle. It's like they are intentionally trying to distract you while driving. My 2015 Honda Civic coupe was WAY better designed on the inside.
My daughters were in town and I let them take the car for a few days rather than renting one. When they brought it back, and without prompting, they both told me how bad they thought it was. Their reasons were the same as mine.
I could go on for days about it. DO NOT BUY A LEXUS. They look great from the outside, but are just terrible inside.
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Why does it have to go over the Internet, when people have had remote start from their keyfob for literally decades without the Internet?
Sounds like an excuse to charge people for shit to me. Fuck Toyota.
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Nonsense. None of the other functions of a keyfob are internet connected. You press a button, the fob sends a radio signal, the car receives the radio signal, it performs the command (such as lock or unlock, open the trunk, sound the horn, start, etc.).
So this is exactly like paying for the "privilege" of using Android Auto or Car Play.
How much do I have to pay for an old-fashioned... (Score:2)
... key with no remote anything?
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This is a feature of the car that I suppose Toyota is bundling in as standard, but if you don't want it, you shouldn't be under any obligation to pay for it.
We got a Sirius FM radio subscription with our new car that we didn't pay anything extra for, and they contacted us when the subscription expired to renew, and we just told them no thanks, because we never used it.
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Note that a lot of new cars might have just one keyhole and that may only be allowed to open a door if the fob is dead (and often hidden, so the 'ugly keyhole' doesn't mess with their look).
Such a car may fall back to NFC to start the car from a 'dead' fob, it's just pickier about where it has to be.
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So probably what you want is a non-internet-connected fob for which you probably only have to go back three or four years.
First its remote start (Score:2)
You won't own anything (Score:2)
You'll just pay a subscription price, everything is moving to that model and it's not good for consumers.
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Which wouldn't be all that bad if you hadn't shelled out tens of thousands for the privilege of being a subscriber first.
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You'll just pay a subscription price, everything is moving to that model and it's not good for consumers.
Yes, the openly-stated-then-quietly-withdrawn announcement by the World Economic Forum is that by 2030 We'll own nothing. And we'll be happy [quora.com]. They call it The Great Reset, and they seem pretty serious about it. Toyota's just doing its bit to not let the team down.
On a side note, it would be interesting to do fMRI's on some of these super-rich fucks - I'm pretty sure their brains have become significantly different from those of most people reading this. Heck, I might be willing to dispense with the fMRI and
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You won't be given a choice of what you value, that's the point. If it were truly market driven as in your example of music subscriptions then it could be good. In the case of car features and functionality that are in the vehicle, it's not good.
The consumers aren't driving this so-called great reset, it's being done as another way to extract every dime from your pocket.
One more reason (Score:2)
Wow (Score:2)
Really not selling me on Toyota products with this nonsense
Random stuff to provide more characters so it doesn't look like "ascii art"
This is nothing... (Score:2)
All it means is that the remote start feature is being built into all cars instead of being an option.
Before you had to pay to have the remote start and get the different fobs. Now it will already be installed, you just pay to enable.
Everyone here wants to turn it into slippery slope, soon you'll be paying to tart the car kind of nonsense.
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> No, that's not what's being talked about here. if it were a one-time fee everybody would understand and be on-board
Let's calculate the actual cost instead of
Here is the actual cost: https://www.toyota.com/content... [toyota.com]
Average car ownership is 10 years, with 3 years of trial period it means 7 years of subscription, $560.
If you make it a "one time cost" of say $800 everybody would be on-board, but probably as a whole will pay more?
Re: This is nothing... (Score:2)
IIRC Hyundai is already the same? (Score:3)
I believe you have to have a sub to Bluelink for the remote-start feature to work, but I don't really pay attention as at my car's trim level (maybe all of them, I dunno) they give me free sub to Bluelink.
1st world problems: FWIW while the remote-start feature is fundamentally nice (in MN being able to start your car without going out in the frigid dark first is REALLY a QoL thing) it constantly reminds me of how basically rubbish even fairly-advanced carmakers are at tech:
- you can turn on the heated steering wheel, but not the heated seats. WTF why? Who thought that through?
- the app is just basically clunky, slow, poorly designed, and buggy.
- you can only run your car for 10 mins or less, then it shuts off. As I think the timer runs from 'send command' time, and sometimes it takes 2-3 mins to start, this means sometimes as little as 6 mins of time before it kills it.
- the functions you can control remotely are a tiny subset of the things you presumably could do without jeopardizing the hackability of the vehicle, like set the radio station and volume?
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- the functions you can control remotely are a tiny subset of the things you presumably could do without jeopardizing the hackability of the vehicle, like set the radio station and volume?
Isn't that kind of like having an EJECT button on your VCR/DVD remote? I guess remote stereo control might be handy for those people who park their car with all the doors open and use it as a giant boombox...
Old news (Score:2)
Hmmmm (Score:2)
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You think Ford is going to be a nice guy here and keep it that way?
How much for an old-fashioned key? (Score:3)
How much for an old-fashioned key? The fobs themselves should be an option, and not forced on everyone.
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100% of fobs I've ever seen or used have a key inside them.
No this remote start feature has nothing to do with your ability to start the car when you're in it, physical turning key thing or no physical turning key thing.
Do I get support for that $$ (Score:2)
If not, no sale.
Never buying a new car - ever (Score:3)
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So cars are becoming advertising platforms like computer operating systems. I'll keep my old vehicles until they rot from under me.
You're never buying a new car because they charge a fee for a service your old car likely doesn't have and one which you seem to be very happy to live with out?
Many you people chose strange hills to die on.
Built in (Score:2)
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Toyota remote start sucks anyway (Score:3)
I never use it on my Toyota because the vehicle turns off as soon as the door is opened. https://toyota.custhelp.com/ap... [custhelp.com]
I do not know of any other automaker that does this. You can't open or drive the vehicle without the Key fob so what's the point? Are people leaving one fob in the car and starting it remotely with another?
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Interesting.
I rented a Chrysler vehicle and it included the remote start. It was fun -we then used the key to unlock the door and turn the car to the "On/Running" position without stopping the engine, but it was required before we could take the car out of "Park" and drive away. If turning the car to the "On" position was done quickly enough (IIRC, within 30 seconds) then the car would shut off with an alarm warning.
Not News (Score:2)
So, yeah, let's go crazy about a GSM (or whatever it is) connection fee . . .
subscribe to different car manufacturer (Score:2)
Nobody believes you, Toyota (Score:2)
I had remote start in my Mustang. In 1995. It did not require internet access to function.
Toyota has taken a lesson from the airlines.
Basic service, without fees, must be sufficiently degraded to make people want to pay to escape it. [uxmatters.com]
Don't count on being able to "take your money elsewhere". These sorts of shenanigans are far too profitable for any vendor NOT to implement it wherever possible.
How is this news? (Score:2)
Cost recovery (Score:2)
They need to cover their costs for lawsuits when the system gets hacked and the hackers take off with your car.
Workarounds? (Score:2)
- Has anyone tried negotiating getting the fee waived? I'm sure dealers wouldn't want to lose sales over this.
Nope (Score:5, Informative)
It's for the key fob. You have to subscribe to the remote connect feature for the key fob remote start to work as well.
Here's a link to the original article instead of The Verge (Slashdot must have some deal only linking to their articles or something) including a picture of Toyota's explanation of the subscription requirements for the key fob.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/... [thedrive.com]
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When I bought my Subaru in 2018 I had the choice of two remote start options. One was the RF fob type the other was a subscription to "MySuburu" which allowed for remote start with the phone app.
The subscription was almost not a subscription, though, as the term is really long, like 7 years or something and I picked that over the fob because I can start the car way out of line of sight in addition to some other features, like setting the climate control, turning on seat heaters, etc.
I kind of wish they had
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They will never implement an auto-clutch for remote start on manual transmissions. There is far too much liability in automatically releasing any braking mechanisms that the driver engaged by personal and/or situational choice. There would almost certainly be at least one driverless car rolling down an inline due to the remote start taking the car out of gear without a properly engaged brake - even if there was supposed to be an automatic brake application as part of the start process. The legal department
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They will never implement an auto-clutch for remote start on manual transmissions.
So good news for 95% of humanity. This will be largely a US option. As long as I have an internal combustion engine I cannot see any attraction in getting an automatic. This may put a brake on the number of cars that give you less control (automatics).
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It's for the key fob. You have to subscribe to the remote connect feature for the key fob remote start to work as well.
Here's a link to the original article instead of The Verge (Slashdot must have some deal only linking to their articles or something) including a picture of Toyota's explanation of the subscription requirements for the key fob.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/... [thedrive.com]
Still unclear:
"Vehicles equipped with with Remote Connect have key fob compatibility for Remote Start."
"Connected Services registration will be required to use the complete suite of Remote Connect services..."
"Key Fob Remote Start will not function if Connected Services are waived."
Leaves me questioning. It seems there's "Connected Services" which (may very well be a free service) one must enroll in should they want "Remote Connect" which is a premium service.
The product page [toyota.com] for "Remote Connect" seems
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Leaves me questioning. It seems there's "Connected Services" which (may very well be a free service) one must enroll in should they want "Remote Connect" which is a premium service.
The product page [toyota.com] for "Remote Connect" seems to imply it's only applicable to "compatible smart device[s]," with the only caveat listed on that page being that it's not applicable to manual transmissions.
Connected Services is Toyota's version of OnStar, GM's telematics package. It gets you access to in-vehicle data plans, and lets you remote start your car from your phone. The key fob remote-start functionality will only work if you have an active Connected Services plan. As I said, the key fob remote start doesn't rely on Connected Services for any technical reason, it's the same remote-start that's been available for decades. The only difference is now you need a subscription to use it.
You get a free subs
PDF (Score:3)
You didn't read the PDF in the the page you linked to, which was also quoted directly in the original Drive article.
https://www.toyota.com/content... [toyota.com]
From the first page of the PDF, in the giant box regarding key fobs:
"Note: Key Fob Remote Start will not function if Connected Services are waived."
Connected Services is Toyota's telematics package. You get it for free for a few years, depending on what stereo you have, then you have to pay.
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One would think, but it sounds like the car always checks to see if it's ok to remote start by connecting to an internet service, even if the request was initiated locally.
Telling is that Toyota issued an update *only* for cars with 3G hardware to let them keep using their keyfob without a subscription, but if you have an LTE equipped car, you need the subscription. In other words, Toyota knowing that the cars would be incapable of continuing to subscribe decided to 'enhance' them to not need a service they
roaming fees? if not in the USA upto $15/MB? (Score:2)
roaming fees? if not in the USA upto $15/MB?
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Interesting. We're at one bar when standing over by the pellet stove and facing west, and it's AT&T only. I guess it's key only, although we can remotely start our F150 with the keyfob (no available smartphone access I'm pretty sure)
[John]
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One would think, but it sounds like the car always checks to see if it's ok to remote start by connecting to an internet service,
So remote start doesn't work if you can't get a phone data signal?
Re:Idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, fuck that. Audio already started this BS with things like subscription heated seats. The heating element is built into your car, but you can't turn it on until you pay them, and if you stop paying the car disables it.
Reminds me of that scene in Ubik where the door wants to be paid to open, and threatens to sue when he starts removing the screws.
Re:Idiots (Score:4, Funny)
Audio? I'm hoping you meant Audi. Because otherwise you sound deranged. MY audio system neither needs nor provides heated seats...
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Yeah... Can't even blame that one on autocorrect.
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If this is going to be the normal for buying new cars I'd say I'm not going to buy any more new cars. It's bad enough having dealerships nickel and dime you (for hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars) to get certain paint colors, paint protection, tinted windows, etc., but if the manufacturer is going to start piling on to sell you subscription services as well... I'm out!
This should cause some interesting trends in the market. We'll have manufacturers selling cars and charge extra for these features that are most likely already included in the firmware. However, it will just take one manufacturer to include these features in a trim level to entice more buyers and this will open a floodgate for other manufacturers to include these features.
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Isn't it already like this? There was a time when power windows, seats, air conditioning, etc, were luxury features, now it seems like even cheap cars with a basic trim line includes them.
It sure seems like carmakers are constantly pushing features down into lower trim levels. I'd wager that whatever it costs them in lost sales of higher trim levels is made up for by the economies of scale of less variation in assembly, parts tracking, etc.
Although I was surprised when I found out that they will still do
Expect more of this (Score:2)
Manufacturers and dealers don't make much money on the car. They make money on financing and vehicle repairs/maintenance service. Cars are getting more and more reliable and require service less frequently (especially electric cars which will soon be most of the market). Expect a lot more of this features-as-subscription bullshit in the future as these companies figure out how to squeeze a regular stream revenue out of car owners.
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You aren't missing anything, this is about the car starting to warm up/defrost/deice/cool dowwn as appropriate before you actually have to go to it.
Even if you think it silly, it is a strange thing to have a car that could otherwise handle the entire thing, but it will check with the vendor's servers over the internet to make sure the 'owner' is still allowed to do that thing. It costs the vendor more money to implement this check than to just let the function work.
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And probably earns them less than the goodwill of giving it for free and making them look amazing in comparison to everyone else who doesn't offer that.
I mean seriously, that's a massive selling feature! They've built it. Every extra car they sell probably pays for what? Dozens? Hundreds of subscriptions?
I don't get it. They could have a couple of years where they are viewed to be so much better than their competitors. Instead they try to juice the short-term profits, picking away at bits of revenue.
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Though I can see why people want their car heated when they step in.
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That was weird the first time we encountered it. We rented a Boxster in San Diego when my wife and I attended Kubecon and it did the start-stop on us. It seems like it'd adversely impact the engine over time though.
[John]
Re:Why would I need to remote start my car? (Score:5, Informative)
I suspect you have not experienced having to spend 20 minutes punching through a rock hard sheet of ice covering your entire car during winter (admittedly it's rarely that bad around here, but it happens).
As for turning off heating when leaving the house, around here that's how you get burst pipes and no insurance coverage for the resulting water damage.
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Most people don't turn it completely off, but the temperature might be allowed to drop significantly lower. Although it's not clear that saves much energy unless there is a very large temperature difference between inside and outside.
Turning the temperature down gives a huge return on costs when the temperature differential is high, it can easily make a %50 difference or more. When it was -20F here, I actually got frozen pipes in the house 6’ from the outside wall with an indoor temperature of about 60F because it’s an old house the space under the floor joists wasn’t insulated on the outer wall. Luckily it was pex which stretches instead of rupturing and costing tens of thousands in damages. So all I had to do was
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As for turning off heating when leaving the house, around here that's how you get burst pipes and no insurance coverage for the resulting water damage.
Why is everything extremes with you people. The poster said he turns his heating off when he's out. He didn't say he bypasses standard safety features present in all boilers to maintain minimum temperature when he goes on the several week long holiday required for the inside of the house to get to temperatures which would result in his services freezing.
And as for your 20min of ice punching, park your car somewhere more sensible, or use a cover. If you forget consider it a life lesson, not some desperate re
Re: Why would I need to remote start my car? (Score:2)
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I agree, -20F when its hard to breath, you want the car warmed up, even if its for a few minutes.
Anyone who ever paid attention to starting a car in actual cold, about -10F/-23C or below, heard some pretty funky sounds, especially in the first 3-5 seconds. Even in modern cars, when it’s that cold or lower oil will often not be properly circulating and lubricating for up to a minute or two. Putting it in gear and hauling ass right away might warm it up fast but it’s very hard on the engine. Giving it a minute or two to warm up before loading the engine will make it last much longer. You
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Re:Why would I need to remote start my car? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone who regularly starts a car much below ~-20 C knows that if you didn't use that plug the night before there's a good chance you're not going anywhere.
That's how you tell if people mean *with windchill* when they tell you how cold it gets, or the actual temperature.
Diesel (Score:2)
If you have a diesel engine, you *have* to let the engine warm up when it's cold outside or you could damage it. I'd rather be doing stuff in the house than go outside and sit in the truck for five minutes in freezing cold weather doing nothing. If it's 32F you don't have to wait long. If it's 0F it takes a while.
Re: (Score:2)
That hasn't been necessary for decades. Google glow plugs.
Manual (Score:2)
That's not what the owner's manual of my diesel truck says. Even with a glow plug to get the thing started, you still need to let it warm up.
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Remote start is awesome. It clears off the frost and saves me time scraping every morning. Often times the windows will fog up again if you start driving when the car is cold.
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I guess you don't live where there is winter.
I takes a while for an ICE powered vehicle to warm up to operating temperature when its parked outside all night and its 25 below.
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Really? What do you drive, a 1970s Lada? Short of Mars surface temps most ICEs whether petrol or diesel (with modern glow plugs) are good to go within seconds.
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Toyota's are over-priced junk anyway. Sold on a decades of marketing.
Utter horseshit; they're sold on decades of running for hundreds of thousands of miles (Mercedes used to make top-quality, *non-disposable* cars; now Toyota's the only one).
Disclaimer: I do not own a Toyota, nor am I ever likely to.
My old Camry (Score:2)
My old Camry was still going strong when a Cadillac wiped out a line of vehicles with me in the middle. My replacement Highlander is awesome.
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Toyota's are over-priced junk anyway. Sold on a decades of marketing. Toyota makes cars like the Prius and a few Hybrids, but Toyota's bread and butter comes from gas guzzling SUVs and Trucks...
Are you really not seeing the countless Camrys and Corollas that are on the road, the boring econoboxes that get about 40MPG mixed and easily get 200,000 miles before major repairs? Yes, 4Runners and Highlanders exist, but their bread and butter? I think not.
I own a 2015 Corolla I bought from a rental car company in 2016. It's got 210,000 miles on it, and the most expensive repair I've needed to do was get new tires.
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The same argument goes for any other massive truck on the road. The vast majority never see a load of gravel in the bed, much less tires ever touching mud. Jeep makes me laugh though. They just had a new commercial this morning for some model with a tiny American flag badge on the side. Celebrate 'MURICA with your vehicle made by an international conglomerate (Stellantis) and manufactured in Mexico. The fine print says it's assembled in the USA!