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Hardware

Dell's Luna Laptop Concept Is All About Repairability (theverge.com) 77

Posted by BeauHD from the don't-expect-it-anytime-soon-though dept.
On Tuesday, Dell announced a new design concept for a laptop that's long lived, easy to take apart and fix, and takes a smaller toll on the climate. The Verge reports: Called "Concept Luna," the proof-of-concept laptop dreamed up by Dell's design team has a number of unusual features that are intended to make repair and maintenance easy. No screwdrivers or glue solvents are needed to pry loose a broken keyboard or peel off a cracked screen; both components simply pop free after a pair of keystones holding them in place are removed. The entire system contains far fewer screws than a typical Dell laptop, reducing the time needed to replace components. And you'll never have to worry about replacing a broken fan, because there isn't one: a shrunken-down motherboard placed in the top cover allows the laptop to passively cool itself.

Dell design strategist Drew Tosh described Luna as a "front end concept" intended to "solve some of the larger problems we're trying to get ahead of in the future," namely e-waste and climate change. A laptop that is easy to repair and upgrade is less likely to be replaced with a new one that takes yet more energy and resources to produce. When that computer eventually does stop working, parts can be harvested to live on in other machines rather than winding up as toxic trash in landfills. [...] "We're really focused on reuse and recycle," Tosh told The Verge. "And really, it would be more like reuse, reuse, reuse, and recycle only when we really have to." So far, only several prototype versions of this laptop exist. But the design Dell is showing off is as sleek and portable as any laptop in the company's current lineup.

Other ideas in Concept Luna are more focused on the climate impact of electronics. The aluminum in the chassis is smelted using hydropower energy, replacing what is often one of the dirtiest manufacturing steps with a low-carbon alternative. The motherboard is a quarter the size of the board in the Latitude 7300 AE, and according to Dell, it could have a 50 percent smaller carbon footprint. A life cycle analysis of the Latitude 7300 AE found that manufacturing accounted for 65 percent of the device's climate impact and printed wire boards were the most energy-intensive components to make. Considering Dell's leading position in the global laptop market, this level of carbon cutting on an individual parts basis could translate to significant reductions across the industry. Another key factor determining how long lived any laptop will be is the availability of spare parts for repair -- most importantly, screens and batteries [...]. [I]ndividuals can already order "tens of thousands" of spare parts from Dell, including replacement screens and batteries, however, these components are often unavailable for purchase online. [I]ncreasing the number of spare parts customers can buy online is "something we are working on right now."
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Dell's Luna Laptop Concept Is All About Repairability More

Dell's Luna Laptop Concept Is All About Repairability

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  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @07:56PM (#62081259)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      "...standards reaching all the way back to the first IBM PC - which in hindsight was a mistake for IBM but a boon for the industry as a whole."

      There's some insight right there! There was no "industry as a whole" then, IBM literally created it by publishing its design. You could not possibly be more wrong. Were you even born then?

      • Nothing else is like that. Not cars, for example.

        They are standard right down to where the screw holes go on a motherboard.

        I can swap memory, disk drives, power supplies. Amazing.

        A rare ray of sunshine. Unlikely to be repeated.

    • Didn't some company try this roughly a decade ago? I remember trying to find a modular laptop and discovering that only one company made one, I recall there were several different cases, two or three motherboards and a few other options. I specifically remember being upset that they were already discontinued by the time I found out about them.

    • That's why Commodore won (Score:5, Interesting)

      by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:42PM (#62081703) Journal

      Turned out to be a mistake?

      IBM entered a market dominated by Commodore and Apple. Other established PC manufacturers at the time included Datapoint, Altair, CTR, and Atari. Unlike the established PC makers, IBM choose to do an open architecture that allowed other companies to create hundreds of different accessories.

      Within just a couple years IBM was selling twice as many PCs as any other company. That strategy allows them to take over the PC industry.

      You think they would have been better off doing what Altair and Commodore did? Try beating them at their own game? Why in the world would anyone buy from a new entrant to the market rather than buying from one the popular companies, if IBM had been proprietary just like the others?

      Some would argue that IBM made mistakes *twenty years later*.

      • Re:That's why Commodore won (Score:4, Interesting)

        by lsllll ( 830002 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:59PM (#62081751)

        IBM didn't choose open architecture because they wanted the PC to be open. They had no choice. They were late to the game. They needed a PC NOW! And the same with the software that was to run on it. They knew if they went through the bureaucracy in IBM, they'd never get it done.

        Makes me wonder just how rich Mrs. Kildall would have been had she not kicked IBM out of her house.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Mrs Kildall likely would have just sold the rights. Remember Gates came from a lawyer family, bank lawyers, so was good with contracts and lucked out that IBM agreed to his offer.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dryeo ( 100693 )

        The Apple II was pretty open and there were a lot of cards etc sold for it and its successors. IBM's success was largely due to being International Business Machines with the others often considered toys or at least some new unproven company.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          The Apple II was pretty open and there were a lot of cards etc sold for it and its successors. IBM's success was largely due to being International Business Machines with the others often considered toys or at least some new unproven company.

          Exactly. IBM was "successful" at the PC because they were, well, IBM. IBM was a well known business brand name - after all, the adage went "You won't got wrong with IBM" or somesuch. IBM wanted clicky keyboards because they mimicked the sound of the IBM Selectric typewr

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Apple was quite litigious back then when it came to clones. Jobs was famously against expandability, be believed that the computer should include everything anyone needs.

          It's just that back then because computers were relatively simple and slow it was very easy to produce compatible hardware for them. Any ROM code was small enough to be disassembled and understood, and if necessary its functionality reproduced to avoid copyright issues.

          Since most of the chips being used were off-the-shelf it wasn't hard to

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by jfrorie ( 975669 )
        IIRC, they did try to sue people over cloning their microchannel architecture on the ps/2s

      • IBM didn't choose to be open. They just used off-the-shelf parts that made it possible for others to clone the computer easier. The same cloning happened to other machines like the Apple ][ and Sinclair, but it was harder to reverse-engineer the firmware and lawsuits swiftly put an end to those efforts. Note that IBM tried to make their machines proprietary again with systems like the PS/2, but by then the clones were established and selling, so all of IBM's attempts to close their platform failed. IBM

        • Apple has done alright. They were the number one manufacturer of home computers when IBM entered the market. Apple had a superior product.

          IBM took down Apple as the leader, selling more than Apple did, despite Apple having a better product and having the advantages of being the incumbent leader.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ncc74656 ( 45571 ) *

          Also note that legal Apple clones existed for a while.

          Pretty much all of the first Apple II clones were illegal. The hardware design was easy to copy because it was nearly all jellybean 74LSxxx parts, and a straight ripoff of the design was more than likely legal so long as no patents were involved. The firmware, though, was another matter. Cloners mostly just copied the Apple II ROMs verbatim, or at most changed the "APPLE ][" boot message to something different. Apple v. Franklin [fandom.com] put an end to mos

    • That would mean all laptops would look and perform exactly the same. Assuming it were even possible to have swappable keyboards and SSD, CPU, RAM etc. without increasing thickness and reducing quality (afaik, currently clamps to secure removable parts and contacts tightly add thickness.)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rhipf ( 525263 )

        You mean like how all desktop computers look and perform exactly the same?

        Sure you would have a bit more space constraints on a laptop but if we can have nearly infinite variations on desktop computers with standard parts it shouldn't be too hard to have variation in laptops with standardized parts.

        Assuming it were even possible to have swappable keyboards and SSD, CPU, RAM etc. without increasing thickness and reducing quality

        Thinness is somewhat overrated. We have already compromised performance for thinness (just imagine the battery life on something like a Macbook Air if you doubled the thickness and added a second battery). There

    • Good idea, what about the implementation.

      Easy to fix devices are often easily broken devices as well, so over say 8 years of the device the closed off sealed device will not break down or have an issue, while the easy to fix system you will be fixing something every couple years.

      Now if Dell made this with a good quality so while it is easy to fix, while not needing to be fixed more than its closed laptops, then all the better.

      However compared to Desktop PCs, Laptops and Mobile devices, are being moved aroun

  • Concept, aka Lie. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by splutty ( 43475 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:06PM (#62081281)

    Yes. This is a concept. Almost no concepts ever actually make it to market, in any way, shape or form.

    I do not trust Dell to go through with this, considering they're the absolute worst when it comes to proprietary garbage.

    And if they DO go through with this, you're going to pay double for each and every component because you'll only be able to buy it from Dell and from no one else, ever.

    It'll be one laptop in their line up, heavily marked up, and you can buy components for 2 years, and then you're screwed.

    Yes, I'm cynical. I've seen Dell slide further and further down this hole. I don't believe them.

    • After your summation, I feel quite comfortable telling folks I am mildly displeased with to Go to Dell!

    • I'm wondering if they're just looking for a favourable way to differentiate themselves from Apple.
      • They could start with their desktops these days as the latest ones from their Dell and Alienware lines used as many proprietary parts as possible. Technically their desktops are reparable as long as you use Dell parts. The list of things that are needlessly proprietary: case, motherboard, CPU cooler, power supply.

    • Please tell me you didn't create your comment on an Apple device. The irony would be too overwhelming for the universe to contain. Armageddon would ensue, and Great Chthulu would awaken to devour the souls of all the worlds.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      "...considering they're the absolute worst when it comes to proprietary garbage."

      LOL Wut?

      "Yes, I'm cynical. I've seen Dell slide further and further down this hole. I don't believe them."

      You're not cynical, you're just posting to shit on Dell.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by splutty ( 43475 )

        Look up literally *anything* online about the current Dell prebuilts. (That's not coming from Dell)

    • Yes. This is a concept. Almost no concepts ever actually make it to market, in any way, shape or form.

      True, but the other problem with is the concept itself. I can't think of an issue I've had with a laptop that would have caused me to throw it away, a situation that would have been averted had the issue been more easily repairable. Even with an out-of-warranty MacBook Pro it was still worth the couple hundred to have them replace the battery than it was to throw the whole thing away and replace it. It also ended up with a dead cooling fan, I suppose it could have been easier to replace but I wasn't conside

      • My daughter just cracked the screen on her MacBook Air. It will cost 2/3 of new one to repair it. (I bought her a cheap Windows PC instead -- also because the rest of her class and the teacher s are using Window. This is oddly enough only in the math-physics class, in other classes MacBooks are much more common. She can do her school work but it is very slow.)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Yeah, this is Dell that we're talking about. They've made a fortune making computers with Dell proprietary parts that you can only get replaced from Dell. They look like normal PC's and laptops from the outside, until you open them up and see the disaster waiting for you as an end user trying to do upgrades. After 5 years, you have to throw the whole thing out and get a new one.

      I'd recommend watching some Gamers Nexus videos on YouTube about their latest G5 "gaming PC" if you want to see this in action.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I also have to wonder what's wrong with some screws? They're small, strong and reliable - they're also completely standard parts that are replaceable and manageable using easily obtained, non-proprietary tools.

      I don't need a laptop I can take to pieces with my eyes closed - I need a laptop that can be upgraded easily (ie. not all soldered and glued together). Let's be honest, most normal people won't even replace a self-replacable keyboard - they'll run it down to the shop and say "can I have a keyboard for

    • ... Dell [is] the absolute worst when it comes to proprietary garbage.

      Apparently, you never dealt with Compaq.

  • Framework started it... (Score:4, Informative)

    by dalrympm ( 633053 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:32PM (#62081337)
    We have Framework and companies like iFixit to thank for this direction. It's unfortunate that they're not getting more credit for their efforts.
    • I'm just gonna plug them here with you: I received mine in September and it has been fantastic. The forums community is also small pretty technical, which translates into a decent signal:noise ratio, while people openly discuss their wants and needs. They're not perfect; battery life seems to be an issue that hasn't vexed me much, but it seems to be an area that they're working on. Apparently they're supporting component-level repair shops as well. I love it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dargaud ( 518470 )
        I wish they had different keyboard types (separate PgUp/Dn/Arrows/Home/End/Del or not), and different kinds of touchpad (clickable all surface no buttons, non-clickable 3 buttons, non-clickable 2*3 buttons...)

  • There are eight navigation keys. What was Dell thinking that said let's move 2 of them to the top row?

  • T4xx and E74xx are already pretty damned close to being Erector sets. It's the consumer-grade crap (Smurface, Crapple) that's generally glued together.

  • But there's a catch (Score:3)

    by kmoser ( 1469707 ) on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:48PM (#62081727)
    There's gotta be a catch. I'll bet the MOBO is hardwired to only work with a genuine proprietary Dell power supply, which they will be happy to sell you for the low price of $149.95.

    • There's gotta be a catch. I'll bet the MOBO is hardwired to only work with a genuine proprietary Dell power supply, which they will be happy to sell you for the low price of $149.95.

      No, that's Apple. My current and previous Dell laptops could charge through USB3. They do have proprietary power sockets, just like every other laptop I've ever used, but you don't need to use it.

      Why does there need to be a catch? Isn't it possible Dell heard customers care about resource use and repairability and, being greedy capitalists, decided to produce a product customers want to buy? Personally, I don't care. I get my laptop from my IT department, they fix on the rare occurrence of something breakin

  • We have been here before (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rapjr ( 732628 ) on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @12:41AM (#62081813)
    The IBM 365 Thinkpad was modular and all parts were easily replaced:

    https://thinkwiki.de/365 [thinkwiki.de]

    You could just flip two levers and lift the keyboard up exposing all the internals. Batteries could be pulled out and a recharged one dropped in. The floppy drive could be replaced with a second battery or second hard drive. Hard drives could be easily removed. It was a beautiful system for its day, small and compact. Many laptops that came after it had bays that allowed swapping drives, batteries, CD-ROM, and such in and out. PCMCIA cards could add new capabilities to a laptop (modems, ethernet, sound cards, custom buses for industrial electronic instruments). There are some problems with modular systems though. The connectors have to be very reliable because they get connected/disconnected often, which generally means they have to be big. Heat is more of a problem since you have to design the cooling system for the most power hungry components that might get plugged in. Hence the power supply also has to be bigger.

    Probably the biggest problem is that modular computers are so easy to repair, which means that manufacturers make less profit, so what is their incentive to make them? Users love them, they are better ecologically, but a company that makes such hardware is reducing future sales. This is probably going to be the hardest part of solving the climate crisis, getting companies to make products that last and are repairable instead of disposable. It's a completely different business model. But again, we have been here before, we can go there again.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Thinkpads are still like that. A few standard screws to get in, you can order replacement parts direct from Lenovo and fit them yourself. Every part of the machine has a part number. They even show the length of the screw next to the hole, so you don't put the wrong one in.

      • The latest Thinkpads aren't really that way. They've gone down the road of internal batteries and non-upgradable ram soldered to the motherboards, except for some of the P-series laptops. They are still better than most as a lot of the competition now is glued together and built to be disposable whereas the Thinkpads do have some serviceability, but sadly I haven't found the reliability to be that great. As such, Dell is probably a better bet, even though I hate pretty much everything else about them com

    • Probably the biggest problem is that modular computers are so easy to repair, which means that manufacturers make less profit, so what is their incentive to make them? Users love them, they are better ecologically, but a company that makes such hardware is reducing future sales. This is probably going to be the hardest part of solving the climate crisis, getting companies to make products that last and are repairable instead of disposable. It's a completely different business model. But again, we have been here before, we can go there again.

      Is it, though? Doesn't disposability assume the customer will buy from Dell next time? Someone will get the sale of replacing that disposable piece of electronics, but how likely is it to be you?

      I will always buy Canon camera bodies because I own EF lenses (Canon format). If you offer a platform, I am willing to spend a little more and be loyal. Because MacBooks are semi-disposable, I spend less on them. I buy what is needed and not more. If I knew it could be repaired inexpensively, I'd be more ea

    • The IBM 365 Thinkpad was modular and all parts were easily replaced:

      Back in the day, I worked at HP when we produced the HP 9000/715 workstations. The big innovation in that model was it was assembled with no fasteners. Everything clipped together and was held in place with molded foam blocks.

      Modular, modifiable, and hackable products have their place but they've always been a niche product. Near as I can tell, most people would strongly prefer the product didn't break in the first place rather than making it easier to repair. If this design makes it cheaper to manufacture,

  • It's more about sticking with the same design over time.

    You have a 2015 model that still has a fine display, but you'd like a modern processor? Tough, you aren't getting a board that will fit in that chassis. You cracked the display panel on a servicable laptop? You may have to search for second hand laptops to cannibalize the display because that display is no longer made, and no new panels would work.

    Most reasonable laptops are not too bad to take apart and replace parts, but the window of applicable par

  • With Dell producing desktops with custom form factors for case, motherboard and power supply, what's the point of this laptop concept exactly?

  • Dell's entirely business model is ensured obsolescence and lack of reparability. Here's just a few things they do:
    - Non standard PSUs. Not just non standard form factor, but non-standard voltage and power requirements with non-standard motherboard connectors.
    - Non standard motherboard form factors. Often with I/O ports embedded into the motherboard shape to ensure you can't reuse the case or the motherboard.
    - Non standard heatsinks. Nothing makes you go WTF than seeing Intel mounting holes on an AMD CPU req

  • If you really want to extend the life of a laptop and make it more repairable put all external facing ports on daughterboards instead of directly on the motherboard. I have had dozens of computer with dead USB ports or dead DC jacks that were soldered onto the motherboard and thus very hard to replace (desoldering factory solder is a pain and cleaning the board holes to insert the new part is even worse). There have been a few laptops that use daughterboards for USB ports and DC jacks* (as well as other por

  • Basically, Dell's hoping this will squeeze Framework enough that they'll exit the market.
    The second they, and any other such competitors do, they'll drop it and promptly forget that it ever happened.

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