FAA Agrees Not To Seek Any More 5G Delays From AT&T and Verizon (arstechnica.com) 19
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The Federal Aviation Administration tentatively agreed not to seek any more 5G delays from AT&T and Verizon, potentially ending a battle over the aviation industry's unproven claim that 5G transmissions on C-Band frequencies will interfere with airplane altimeters. The commitment came Monday night, when AT&T and Verizon agreed to one more delay of two weeks, pushing their deployment off until January 19. They had previously agreed to a delay from December 5 until January 5. Terms of Monday's deal were described in an attachment to a letter (PDF) that Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg sent to the carriers. "In light of the foregoing, and subject to any unforeseen aviation safety issues, DOT and FAA will not seek or demand any further delays of C-Band deployment," the deal terms say.
Buttigieg thanked the AT&T and Verizon CEOs, writing, "Your voluntary agreement both to delay initial deployment by two weeks, and to subsequently adopt some additional mitigations, will give us additional time and space to reduce the impacts to commercial flights... We are confident that your voluntary steps will support the safe coexistence of 5G C-Band deployment and aviation activities." The deal incorporates voluntary commitments that AT&T and Verizon previously made, including "C-Band radio exclusion zones" around airports for six months. The aviation industry will give carriers "a list of no more than 50 priority airports" where the exclusion zones will apply.
AT&T and Verizon will provide data on base stations, operating characteristics, and planned deployment locations. They will also "continue to work in good faith with aviation stakeholders to support the technical assessment of individual altimeters and airport environments," the deal says. The FAA previously said it "will safely expedite the approvals of Alternate Means of Compliance (AMOCs) for operators with high-performing radio altimeters to operate at those airports," signaling that airlines may already be using altimeters that can co-exist with C-Band transmissions. AT&T and Verizon's C-Band spectrum licenses are for the frequencies from 3.7 GHz to 3.98 GHz, but the companies don't plan to deploy between 3.8 GHZ and 3.98 GHz until 2023. The radio altimeters used to determine airplane altitudes rely on spectrum from 4.2 GHz to 4.4 GHz. "Assuming there are no further problems, AT&T and Verizon would be able to use their spectrum licenses without extra restrictions after July 5," the report says.
"At the end of the commitment period specified in the Voluntary Commitments (i.e. through July 5, 2022), Licensees intend to deploy 5G base stations in any manner consistent with their C-Band Licenses, all customary rules and regulations, and any additional airport-specific mitigation measures Licensees have committed to take based on their continued engagement with the FAA and the aviation industry," the agreement said.
Buttigieg thanked the AT&T and Verizon CEOs, writing, "Your voluntary agreement both to delay initial deployment by two weeks, and to subsequently adopt some additional mitigations, will give us additional time and space to reduce the impacts to commercial flights... We are confident that your voluntary steps will support the safe coexistence of 5G C-Band deployment and aviation activities." The deal incorporates voluntary commitments that AT&T and Verizon previously made, including "C-Band radio exclusion zones" around airports for six months. The aviation industry will give carriers "a list of no more than 50 priority airports" where the exclusion zones will apply.
AT&T and Verizon will provide data on base stations, operating characteristics, and planned deployment locations. They will also "continue to work in good faith with aviation stakeholders to support the technical assessment of individual altimeters and airport environments," the deal says. The FAA previously said it "will safely expedite the approvals of Alternate Means of Compliance (AMOCs) for operators with high-performing radio altimeters to operate at those airports," signaling that airlines may already be using altimeters that can co-exist with C-Band transmissions. AT&T and Verizon's C-Band spectrum licenses are for the frequencies from 3.7 GHz to 3.98 GHz, but the companies don't plan to deploy between 3.8 GHZ and 3.98 GHz until 2023. The radio altimeters used to determine airplane altitudes rely on spectrum from 4.2 GHz to 4.4 GHz. "Assuming there are no further problems, AT&T and Verizon would be able to use their spectrum licenses without extra restrictions after July 5," the report says.
"At the end of the commitment period specified in the Voluntary Commitments (i.e. through July 5, 2022), Licensees intend to deploy 5G base stations in any manner consistent with their C-Band Licenses, all customary rules and regulations, and any additional airport-specific mitigation measures Licensees have committed to take based on their continued engagement with the FAA and the aviation industry," the agreement said.
Dick-swinging by the FAA (Score:3)
So basically, after a pointless delay the deployment will go on as planned.
What was the point of this whole mess? So people will forget how the FAA fucked up with the 737MAX?
Re: (Score:3)
The main problem, again, is that the design of the radar altimeter is old and honestly just shoddy, crappy and cheap design.
The real issue at hand is that it's almost certainly (very) expensive to replace them with more modern alternatives. So of course they're screaming their heads off.
Combined with the last year of fuckups, I'm sure they basically want to cover their asses as much as they can.
Re:Comes from the Highest Level (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a whole 220MHz between the highest frequency the telcos are licensed for and the lowest frequency the radar altimeters are licensed for. Unless both sides are catastrophically incompetent; or unless some crook on one side or the other padded his wallet by buying dodgy or defective substandard kit; this whole hullabaloo was always much ado about nothing.
Re:Comes from the Highest Level (Score:4, Informative)
The radio altimeter frequency band is 4.2Ghz to 4.4Ghz, but the problem is that on most units the receive mask in place allows the unit to receive transmissions in a range around 500Mhz above and below the defined frequency.
So basically, radio altimeters are licensed for a 200Mhz band but actually listen to a 1.2Ghz or so band with the power of the transmission being the defining factor. The power of 5G towers at the lower end of that 1.2Ghz range means that what used to be a non-issue (as the power wasnt enough to get through the receive mask), is now an issue.
Basically, radio altimeters have always been broken.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
My bet would be your standard palm greasing; either the FAA or the aviation industry was trying to get their butt's scratched by the cell providers.
Seems as though the FAA blinked, however.
Re:Dick-swinging by the FAA (Score:4, Informative)
It's nothing actually new - the aviation industry was opposed to the spectrum auction that caused this since the beginning.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-... [aopa.org]
It was known back then and the FCC went ahead anyways. The two week delay is probably to characterize the problems, and come up with workarounds.
Of course, your favorite FCC commissioner was responsible for the auction, naturally.
Is this really an issue? (Score:2, Troll)
I got my private pilot certificate some decades ago. My altitude instruments were my gauge and my eyes. Now there is GPS, which I understand is very good. So these are three very good references. I believe that the commercial planes also have radar altimeters. So they have one more reference.
But they claim that there is a "radio altimeter" that may be adversely affected by 5G radio? Okay, present the evidence. What exactly is this altimeter and what frequency does it use? And how is 5G adversely affecting i
Re: (Score:3)
Commercial aircraft ground radar-based ILS, how does it work?
It must be witchcraft or some liberal hoax.
Re: (Score:2)
What exactly is this altimeter and what frequency does it use? And how is 5G adversely affecting it? Details, please.
https://skybrary.aero/articles/radio-altimeter-interference
HTH. HAND.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
None of those are very accurate references. Pressure altitude driven altimeters are not very accurate, as QNH varies constantly, your eye is at best only roughly accurate below 2000ft, and GPS altitude is not allowed for any FAI altitude claims due to variations in accuracy, thats why commercial aircraft use radar altimeters particularly when landing in bad weather
Had you read a post above, the details of the problem would be obvious, given you didnt bother, I quote the poster.
The radio altimeter frequency
Re: (Score:2)
All these agencies have their agendas. The FAA has a point though that when you are selling bandwidth that close to the one used by the altimeters you have to show that it is safe. It is not for the FAA to prove that it is unsafe. The realistic concern is that the nearby frequencies can overload/blind the altimeter for their own frequency band, which will depend on the power of the signals, the proximity of the frequency range and the type of apparatus.
You may say 'oh but there are more ways to detect altit
Liability (Score:2)
So, when we can see some lawsuits when flights start to crash?
I know what it will happen... (Score:3)
Interesting Letter To The FCC (Score:1)
Since some on /. ask for citations, here is an interesting letter from Verizon to the FCC on this 5G frequency spectrum issue and the FAA.
Before you scream, "It's just wireless industry posturing...", read all 7 pages of the letter.
Read as many of the citations included in the letter as you can find on the Internet.
I think it places the entire situation into a very clear picture that almost anyone can understand. I'm no radio engineer and it made sense to me.
.
https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/12310669211685/202 [fcc.gov]