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Intel IT Technology

Intel's Dropping of SGX Prevents Ultra HD Blu-Ray Playback on PCs (ghacks.net) 81

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Intel removed the security feature SGX from processors of the 11th and newer generations. Problem is, the feature is one of the requirements to play Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs on computer systems. From a report: The Ultra HD Blu-Ray format, often referred to as 4K Ultra HD or 4K Blu-Ray, supports 4K UHD playback with a pixel resolution of 3840x2160. One of the requirements for playback of Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs on PCs is that SGX is supported by the installed processor and by the motherboard firmware. The Blu-Ray Disc Association defined DRM requirements for Ultra HD Blu-Ray disc playback. Besides SGX, playback is protected by HDCP 2.2 and AACS 2.0, with some discs using AACS 2.1. Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) "allow user-level as well as operating system code to define private regions of memory, called enclaves, whose contents are protected and unable to be either read or saved by any process outside the enclave itself, including processes running at higher privilege levels" according to Wikipedia.
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Intel's Dropping of SGX Prevents Ultra HD Blu-Ray Playback on PCs More

Intel's Dropping of SGX Prevents Ultra HD Blu-Ray Playback on PCs

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  • How come movies aren't being legit sold and distributed in memory cards? Before you say DRM or some BS like that, there is no reason a memory card can't have that.

    • A 64GB SD card costs about 10x - 50x what it would cost to stamp these discs in bulk. They could, but they might as well offer digital downloads at that point.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by splutty ( 43475 )

      Because it costs 45 cents to make a bluray disk.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      How come movies aren't being legit sold and distributed in memory cards? Before you say DRM or some BS like that, there is no reason a memory card can't have that.

      Too expensive too slow.

      To press a disc costs pennies and takes seconds. So for under a buck and maybe 30 seconds later, you have a disc.

      To store 100GB of movie, you need a 128GB memory card, which while they're cheap, you're still looking at $10 or so in bulk. And writing 100GB to it will take 10-20 minutes, because the premium high speed versions

      • Flash also loses data over many years. Could be OTPROM or similar instead though.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Megane ( 129182 )

          It still takes time to do the OTP thing whether it's erasable or not, every byte has to be written individually. Just try copying 20 gigabytes to a flash drive and see how long it takes. And OTP still can decay over time whether it's EPROM or fuse based.

          And it's a lot easier to stamp a plastic disc from a glass master at the rate of one per second than it is to deal with chip masks for mask ROMs, then building chips around them. The bonus is how they nicely stack up on spindles when they're done.

          • It's actually written in blocks rather than bytes. A read only memory device might actually be quite a bit cheaper than your typical memory card though. If you directly etched the content into the silicon, which could potentially be practical, you'd greatly simplify the hardware needed. The controller would only need to send data in one direction, and you also eliminate the need for things like wear leveling. Even in OTP you would still simplify it a lot as you could also eliminate the need for things like

  • So everyone should rip their bluerays? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @01:18PM (#62173147)

    to be able to watch them on newer computers or just buy AMD?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      Can you consistently rip 4K Blu-Rays now? I haven't looked into how cracked the encryption is in a long time. A few years back, I ripped all our DVDs to a file server, keeping them in .iso format (but stripping out the encryption). The discs are all the basement, and we can play any of them from our media computer, complete with any included extras. At the time ripping Blu-Rays wasn't really an option, and they took up too much space, and we didn't have many, so we still use the player for them. But at

      • Re:So everyone should rip their bluerays? (Score:5, Informative)

        by BeepBoopBeep ( 7930446 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @02:29PM (#62173237)
        Yes : https://makemkv.com/ [makemkv.com]
        • This. Get a drive with LibreDrive and you are good to go. Team up with Handbrake and you get a solid pipeline going. Heck, MakeMKV can even enable VLC to play UHD Discs, if you are only interested in playing them.

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by BeepBoopBeep ( 7930446 )
            Defeats the purpose of 4K HDR quality. Leave the MKV rip alone unless you have storage constraints (who does anyways, spinning disks dirt cheap). A typical 4K untouched rip only consumes 100mbs of network to stream it.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Bigbutt ( 65939 )

              Yea but I only buy 4K if no other option is available at the time. WalMart for example sometimes sells just 4K disks.

              I generally get a DVD when available or Bluray with a DVD disk. If not, I rip it and downconvert it heavily, a couple of gigs in size or less. 4K is a last resort and even then I’m looking for a combo 4K + Bluray or + DVD.

              Any TV watching though, like our Friday night movie night, is on Disc.

              [John]

              • I have been tinkering with this for a bit, use my file server now, just bought the new Dune in 4k. Ripped to 88GB unencrypted file. Took that and ran it through Hankbrake into 10bit H.265, ended up with a 3GB file lwith both Dolby II and 7.1 audio that looked as good as the master.
            • What are you talking about? MakeMKV simply rips the untouched streams into an MKV container. There's no transcoding and no loss of resolution or HDR.
              • He was responding to the part where Handbrake is mentioned. You dont need handbrake unless you are compressing down was the thrust of the statement.
              • Read above, some people are putting it through handbrake after makemkv

        • I second MakeMKV. It's the easiest ripping software and most smart TVs can play most MKV files as-is. Use Handbrake for the occasional movie/TV show that doesn't convert/play properly. VLC can playback everything and can even splice deleted scenes into a movie sequence without modifying the original files via a custom playlist - a bit tricky though to get the timings right and I've only done it a couple of times where I thought a specific deleted scene resulted in a better movie.

          Haven't really found a go

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by crow ( 16139 )

          That looks great for pulling out the content. What I really want is to do this like I do for DVDs: Create an image of the disc in a file, and point a player at it, so I get all the menus and everything (preferably stripping out the encryption in the process).

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's easier just to download a high quality rip from The Pirate Bay or RARBG. No need to waste your time and electricity doing a rip yourself, just buy the disc and throw it in a storage box, then pirate the MKV file for your NAS.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by crow ( 16139 )

          If you just want the movie, that's fine, but if you want the special features, then you need to rip the full .iso image and point a player at it. I've had good luck on that with DVDs (though a few are a pain with my tools). I haven't looked into doing that with Blu-Rays, but last I looked, that wasn't really an option, at least on Linux (my media computer runs Linux).

        • Iâ(TM)ve tried that, but found that by ripping I end up with a consistently higher quality rip and decent size.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 )

      to be able to watch them on newer computers or just buy AMD?

      You, and probably others, misunderstand. Blu Rays are not impacted this. This is a problem for what is variously called "Ultra HD Blu Ray" or "4K Blu Ray", which is a higher resolution format based on Blu Ray technology. It's so difficult to get 4K Blu Ray working on a PC because of the ridiculous specs that it's really not worth it in my opinion, and I speak from experience here. Most of the things required to even have a shot at getting it work correctly actually aren't useful, they seem to have be

      • Thank you for explaining all this! Though I have still many DVDs, some Blu Rays and even a couple 4K "Ultra" Blu Rays, I have not kept up with players, drives, DRM, etc. If I had some mod points I'd give you one for this.

      • According to TFA, that isn't quite the case. AMD users have been able to watch Ultra HD Blu-Ray using software other than CyberLink's PowerDVD, which relies on SGX.

        beemeup5

        Intel SGX is not a requirement for playback in the UHD Blu-ray spec. PowerDVD just happens to make use of Intel SGX for their decryption implementation / HDCP handshake enforcement. Other software players that don’t make use of Intel SGX can play UHD discs just fine, so AMD CPU owners need not worry.

        Just use MPC-HC or JRiver Media Center, etc. Of course, you may need to use “alternate” decryption options like AnyDVD or DVDFab, and naturally you also need a UHD capable disc drive with compatible firmware. like the Asus BC-12D2HT. Many sellers will flash the stock firmware with UHD-capable firmware for drives sold as “UHD ready”.

  • complaints of not enough DRM? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    fuckin' stupid. just pirate the damn movies.

  • Yet another learning opportunity will be wasted (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheNameOfNick ( 7286618 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @01:53PM (#62173207)

    You don't own things that come with digital restrictions management.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      It only affects playback of discs on PCs.

      You can still play those discs on easily available standalone disc players.

      It's not really a huge deal wither - playing back the disc on a PC requires you have a very specific drive in your PC as well, as well as Cyberlink PowerDVD which while you buy it outright for $99 a year (on sale), support only lasts for a year so you have to buy a new copy a year later because the keys expire.

      By the time it's all said and done, you've invested $300 on your PC just to play bac

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • In fact, what everyone else does is invest maybe $50 on a blu-ray drive and rip the UHD discs on the PC.

        To me, it seems intangibly more than $50. I don't have the time or patience to figure out which drive and which firmware is required. I have a decent sized collection of standard Blu-Rays ripped to the server but haven't bought a single 4K disc. Now, if I could pay $100 and have someone else figure out the right model and flash the drive, I would probably do it.

  • Seems like a great hiding place for malware (Score:3)

    by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @02:39PM (#62173257) Homepage

    > Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) "allow user-level as well as operating system code to define private regions of memory, called enclaves, whose contents are protected and unable to be either read or saved by any process outside the enclave itself, including processes running at higher privilege levels"

    Seems like a good place for malware to hide. I'm glad Intel got rid of this feature.

    What amuses me is that they seem to go through all this trouble to DRM the entire pipeline including the CPU and HDMI cable but stuff still gets copied and released by the piracy community on the day of release or even earlier. They really should stop trying so hard; it's affecting the experience of legitimate users while doing nothing to stop piracy.

    • Re: Seems like a great hiding place for malware (Score:5, Insightful)

      by felixrising ( 1135205 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @02:59PM (#62173323)
      It's really anti consumer. It doesn't just affect consumer experience, it increases cost of HDMI cables and devices Blu-Ray players TVs and projectors Surround Receivers Computer chips Etc The list is long and all the DRM technology added costs extra money for consumers at ever step. And ultimately it doesn't do anything except hurt their own customers. The DRM is quickly circumvented and piraters still pirate the content. The whole policy is bad.
    • Its not really piracy they care about here. Its the ease of making a simple backup that they care about, as they dont want it to be simple, at all.

      Sure, they lose business the piracy, but imagine how much they lose to working backups.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jeremi ( 14640 )

        Sure, they lose business the piracy, but imagine how much they lose to working backups.

        I'm imagining not that much. In order for them to make money from lack-of-backups, people would have to be losing Blue Ray discs and then responding to that loss by buying new copies as replacements -- which seems like an uncommon scenario, since any Blue Ray that you care about enough to bother replacing, you probably also liked enough to be careful not to lose in the first place.

        My guess is, 99% of movies are watched once or twice, and after that, they sit on a shelf unwatched for many years, until final

  • Defective by design (Score:5, Insightful)

    by peppepz ( 1311345 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @02:48PM (#62173287)
    As usual, DRM only harms legitimate users, while pirates suffer none of its vexations.

    • Well that's the thing. They really want to do something but the only thing they can do is annoy their paying customers. So that's gotta be it.

    • I don't think I've ever seen any legitimate user use a bluray player in their PC. I know what you're saying, but there will be only the tiniest number of people affected by this.

  • I can't imagine that it would affect anyone at all.

    • Re:Discs are still a thing? (Score:4, Informative)

      by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @05:22PM (#62173737)
      UHD discs are still the only medium on which you can get movies in a quality that is not severely compromised by overly lossy compression. All the "streaming services" save money by using as little bandwidth as they can get away with, often 1/10th of the bandwidth you get from an UHD disc. The difference is very visible. (Of course only for the movies that were actually shot and mastered in 4k - there are plenty of bad examples around, where the medium is not the limiting factor.)

      • Re:Discs are still a thing? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot&worf,net> on Friday January 14, 2022 @09:32PM (#62174199)

        UHD discs are still the only medium on which you can get movies in a quality that is not severely compromised by overly lossy compression. All the "streaming services" save money by using as little bandwidth as they can get away with, often 1/10th of the bandwidth you get from an UHD disc. The difference is very visible. (Of course only for the movies that were actually shot and mastered in 4k - there are plenty of bad examples around, where the medium is not the limiting factor.)

        UHD discs also can be played offline. Short of being robbed, you cannot be deprived of the ability to play the movie as long as you have the disc and a player.

        Streaming, while way more convenient, is at the whims of so many people that "movie night" can be cancelled because someone has a snit with someone else

        Even if Disney decides that only Disney+ can show a Disney/FOX/Marvel/etc movie, my old discs will play in my player - Disney would have to break into my house and physically steal the copies of the movies to remove my ability to play them.

        Also, I hate paying subscrpition fees. The cost is high enough that the few movies I care about, is probably a couple of months worth of a subscription service like Disney+. So I can pay money forever to Disney, or I can pay once and watch it until the disc and/or player disintegrates.

        Yes the discs have DRM in them, but they've been broken so many times over and standalone players don't really do much with it - it's basically transparent.

  • So don't buy them (Score:3)

    by sjames ( 1099 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:11PM (#62173357) Homepage Journal

    Let the MPAA members burn the discs this winter to keep warm.

  • SGX was a great way for malware to mask itself from anti-virus scanners. The good news is that Intel never gives up on a bad idea, so this will likely be back in some form or another. This will also impact a handful of other criminal corporations posing as legitimate software vendors.

    It's just so sad. /s

  • Seriously, I still buy DVDs (which are essentially DRM-free at this point, except Disney's) even though I do have a blu-ray drive on my system

    Now, get off my lawn!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sremick ( 91371 )

      Blu-rays have been almost as easy to rip for many years now.

      • Bluray yea, UHD is a little more limited

        • Bluray yea, UHD is a little more limited

          MakeMKV and LibreDrive have had UHD's cracked for a long, long time. I ripped all my 4k UHD's to my Plex. Screw all this DRM shit. I watch it when I want, where I want, on whatever I want. Only downside is there's no Dolby Vision support, but I can find most anything I want in HDR/HDR10/HDR10+ format.

          • By limited I mean there are a limited number of drives that can decode them, and of those only a subset of firmwares that allow it. Some you can flash the firmware to fix, some you might not be able to.

  • DRM is the issue (Score:3)

    by ironicsky ( 569792 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @04:34PM (#62173605) Journal

    So, the processor isn't the issue - DRM is. If they change or remove their DRM software then the issue goes away.

    We all know that crafty developers have a solution already, or will have one soon.

    • This solution is already in use. If "shit" is causing a problem, simply get rid of it. Arbitrary code execution by "SGX" is fixed by getting rid of or turning off SGX with a laser if necessary (since that is the only way to ensure it is turned off). That leaves "DRM" as an "ugly bad on the side" that has no useful purpose and can then be removed in order to restore utility.

      If you do not like that, then you can get on your knees and blow me. If you get violent you will be put down. If you are brandishin

  • This is not an Intel problem. It is a Digital Restrictions Master problem, and it is being experienced only by the slave class.

    Since I do not permit the execution of arbitrary third-party code on my computer(s) for security reasons, the whole SGX crap was merely a shitshow in search of an off switch. It is good that it is gone, a net improvement in the state of affairs.

    Next thing that needs to be addressed is the propensity of assholes to include camera's and microphones (and spyware) in everything so tha

    • Re:Not Intel Problem (Score:4, Interesting)

      by prisoner-of-enigma ( 535770 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @05:26PM (#62173753) Homepage

      Since I do not permit the execution of arbitrary third-party code on my computer(s) for security reasons,

      Unless you write and maintain your own closed-source OS, chances are this statement is categorically false. You're likely running all manner of "arbitrary third-party code" from hundreds if not thousands of different developers, none of whom you know or have any insight into. That is pretty much the definition of "arbitrary."

  • Bigger problems: (Score:3)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @06:38PM (#62173923)

    Has anyone seen a computer built in the past 3 years with an optical drive? I don't think it's Intel's 11th gen CPU that will prevent playing back 4K blurays, but rather the fact that basically no one really does this.

    HTPC owners maybe?

    • Even a few years back when optical drives were more common, Bluray drives were pretty rare. If you had an optical drive, it was more than likely a DVD. That's all my computers have ever had.

  • Sounds like some kind of energy drink

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