The Pope Denounces Misinformation 'Infodemic' About Vaccines (msn.com) 126
The Washington Post reports:
Pope Francis denounced on Friday the "distortion of reality based on fear" that has ripped across the world during the coronavirus pandemic, but he also called for compassion, urging journalists to help those misled by coronavirus-related misinformation and fake news to better understand the scientific facts. "We can hardly fail to see that these days, in addition to the pandemic, an 'infodemic' is spreading: A distortion of reality based on fear, which in our global society leads to an explosion of commentary on falsified if not invented news," the leader of the world's Catholics said.
Meeting with members of the International Catholic Media Consortium on COVID-19 Vaccines — a fact-checking network that aims to combat misinformation — the pope said that being fully informed by scientific data was a human right. "To be properly informed, to be helped to understand situations based on scientific data and not fake news, is a human right. Correct information must be ensured above all to those who are less equipped, to the weakest and to those who are most vulnerable. Francis, 85, received the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus shot last year and has been vocal about the importance of vaccines.
"Fake news has to be refuted, but individual persons must always be respected, for they believe it often without full awareness or responsibility," he said Friday.
Meeting with members of the International Catholic Media Consortium on COVID-19 Vaccines — a fact-checking network that aims to combat misinformation — the pope said that being fully informed by scientific data was a human right. "To be properly informed, to be helped to understand situations based on scientific data and not fake news, is a human right. Correct information must be ensured above all to those who are less equipped, to the weakest and to those who are most vulnerable. Francis, 85, received the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus shot last year and has been vocal about the importance of vaccines.
"Fake news has to be refuted, but individual persons must always be respected, for they believe it often without full awareness or responsibility," he said Friday.
It takes one to know one (Score:5, Funny)
If anybody knows how to successfully spread nonsense and misinformation, it's the pope.
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Enjoy the irony, there's so little left
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Insightful)
Enjoy the irony, there's so little left
Not to worry, politicians -- especially the Republicans -- will continue providing plenty of that.
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Misinformation like ...
The vaccinated can't spread COVID
The vaccinated are not susceptible to new variants and reinfection
COVID vaccines don't have serious side effects
No 3rd and 4th shot
No new shots every year/half a year
No shots for young children
No segregation of society between vaccinated and unvaccinated
No harder access of medical care for unvaccinated
No secret contrasts between Pfizer and governments
When you have to change the definition of a word(vaccine) it means you're spreading misinformation
Re: It takes one to know one (Score:1)
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Wow, you just can't let someone do a good thing, can you?
You're too blinding by hatred to accept that someone you personally disagree with did something important.
The pope just saved countless lives with this one message. That's more than you'll have or ever will accomplish in your entire life.
But go ahead and pretend you're superior in some way. You're not. An you never will be.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry dude, the Catholic church has been a major cause of human misery, suffering and death for most of its existence. It's too easy to have a change of heart for the last few decades and get a free pass when they say one good thing or two.
If the Pope truly wanted to improve humanity, he would immediately issue an apology, disband the church and return the Vatican to Italy.
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Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Informative)
The Catholic church has nearly 2000 years of history. Any organization that has been around for so long will have its dark times which history will look poorly at.
However in general it has done a better job at keeping the good, than other governments, or ideologies that have been in across history.
While the Inquisitions make more interesting history lessons, vs. lessons where monks are keeping the books on antiquities copied so they can survive the ravages of time, and be read when society is ready for them.
The history taught to non-historians mainly focuses around big events, and things that can be remembered so they can be answered on in a test. Protestantism is a big event that had happened in history, and to show what lead up to it, includes documenting the many time the Catholic church in its long history had done the wrong thing.
Also Italy was founded back in 1946, while Vatican City was in 1929
Pope Francis did actually offer an apology for many of the misdeeds that Catholic church had committed.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Insightful)
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Just in my life time, while the US President has been a major official in the US Government, the US Government has done the following: Covered up and barred attempts to learn about the January 6th insurrection. Passed anti-blaspheme laws in the US to block news of the US Government mis-doings. Prevented millions of people from using condoms during its history due to a focus on abstinence in schools instead of healthy sex education. Lied about, covered up, and blocked attempts to gain information on the deaths of thousands of (insert numerous examples here). That's just in the last two decades. The US president has more blood on his hands, directly and indirectly, than I will ever have. Also, the United States was a country long before 1946. The United States fought in the first world war, three decades before 1946. The United States existed centuries before that in various forms. Pick up a history book some time.
FTFY - I'm not trying to defend the current pope or Catholic Church, but please do not try to combine all past Popes/Catholic Church administration and their actions and compare them to the current one. Make all the criticisms you want of the current leader and administration during the past nine years, but keep it at that.
You assert that point (Score:2)
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If the Catholic Church was just a Charity then it would be bad... However it is Church, they have Churches, sometimes in rather good real estate locations that are expensive to upkeep, and many are very old, so much more upkeep. The need a paid full time staff to keep each individual church running. It isn't setup to be an optimal charity system, however it is setup as a Church to care for the spiritual needs for the local community. Sure wedding preparation, baptisms, funerals, religious education. W
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Also Italy was founded back in 1946
Then what surrendered to the Allies in 1943? And what was Garibaldi doing in the previous century? You are talking about the current version of Italy, which makes as much sense as saying that Windows didn't exist before Windows 11.
Re: It takes one to know one (Score:2)
Please do not compare Italy to Windows 11, I feel deeply offended as much as you're actually accurate :)
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While the Inquisitions make more interesting history lessons
The most severe of the inquisitions were not run by the church or the pope, they were run by the local governments. They did get authorization from the pope but this came at the request of the monarch, it didn't come from the church. The crusades did come at the request of the pope, but their execution was up to the monarchs and they went very differently from what the pope had intended. Especially the fourth.
This, of course, raises the question of whether the church is blameless when people act on their
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Sure you can point to evil things that have come from the Catholic church, through most of its history humans were finding any reason they could come up with to do terrible things to each other. It's not as if the church was the one bad actor in Europe through the entirety of its post BC existence.
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... and return the Vatican to Italy.
Why in the world has this been rated "informative"? It is obviously meant to be funny!
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Funny)
Really a cornerstone of human progress those people.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Informative)
And who better to trust on the subject of science? His organization has, throughout history, fully supported scientific endeavors of all sorts. Really a cornerstone of human progress those people.
You are being sarcastic, but you are actually correct. The Catholic Church has studied science throughout the ages, and with the obvious exception of believing in a god, are usually fairly good with facts. A Jesuit priest is responsible for the big bang theory, and contrary to the popular discourse on the matter, Galileo was not condemned for claiming the world orbits the sun; he was condemned for being an arsehole. Even in areas where the church is very obviously wrong, like the use of contraception and abortion, they rely on fuzzy arguments about morality and "gods will" and thus sidestep scientific studies of actual human welfare outcomes.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Interesting)
The Catholic Church isn't disputing any of the science behind contraception and abortion, they are disputing the ethics of performing/using them.
For abortion they declared that an individuals live begins after conception, at that point there is a cell with a unique DNA sequence that isn't just the mother or the fathers DNA. Now that might be setting the bar to consider it alive to be much too high. As we are more than just our genetics, and at that point the Cell is no more complex than a Bacteria, in which nearly no one has an issue killing. But we can debate the start of life, to when it forms a heart, or perhaps with a sufficiently complex brain.... We could extend the logic out to a point after birth as a new born baby still isn't fully developed, and indeed other animals are born far more developed than humans are.
They are not fuzzy arguments about the science, but fuzzy arguments for the morality, and deciding to set a high standard to the point where human life begins.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:4, Funny)
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Every sperm is sacred...Every sperm is great...
You should set them free at every opportunity!
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Maybe it's like celery [also untrue, but bear with me]: you burn more calories consuming it, or in this case preparing it, than you extract from it.
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DJT, is that U?
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Funny skit, from Monty Python... But it isn't Catholic Doctoran.
Just because it is entertaining, it doesn't make it truthful.
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Your claim about the nature of the dispute between the church and Galileo is a complete fabrication lifted from Galileo and the Vatican, which is full on self serving bullshit revisionism written by a cardinal. The church tortured the guy to get him to recant, not assholism bu
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The Catholic Church has studied science throughout the ages, and with the obvious exception of believing in a god, are usually fairly good with facts. A Jesuit priest is responsible for the big bang theory, and contrary to the popular discourse on the matter, Galileo was not condemned for claiming the world orbits the sun; he was condemned for being an arsehole.
In fact, the Vatican has spent centuries specifically making up for the way it treated Galileo by operating its own world-class observatory:
http://www.vaticanobservatory.... [vaticanobservatory.va]
After its original location near Rome became smogged in, the Vatican Observatory moved its operations to the clearer air of Arizona. It had to overcome strident opposition by the green left, which has now outclassed the Holy Inquisition in trying to take humankind back to the Stone Age. Fortunately for human progress, this state mustered
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In fact, the Vatican has spent centuries specifically
making up for the way it treated Galileo by operating its
own world-class observatory:
http://www.vaticanobservatory.... [www.vatica...vatory....] [vaticanobservatory.va]
Uh, no that doesn't make up for anything.
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Indeed. These are highly competent and experienced liars and they make very sure their lies cannot be falsified. Hence they are not actually anti-science. They just employ science selectively in some areas.
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Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Insightful)
* heliocentricism was proposed by Catholic canon Nicolaus Copernicus,
* the "father of modern genetics" was Brother Gregor Mendel,
* Jesuit priest Teilhard de Chardin was a noted paleontologist specialist of the Carbonifer era (before the dinos) and studied early hominids and the connection with the evolution of the brain.
The Catholic church is perfectly cool with cosmology, quantum physics, the theory of evolution (Darwinism was declared compatible with the Catholic doctrine some 50+ years ago). You can get a Masters of Biotechnology, Neurosciences or Space science at a Pontifical university many places in the world.
The modern anti-science (young earth creationism, flat-earthers, antivaxxers) is not promoted by the Catholic church, but more correlated to political extremism (who can be of any religion).
The guy called Pope is an influencer with 1 billion followers and hundred of millions who regularly follow the Sunday morning podcast, this time he gave a good piece of advice to his fans, I don't see why we would complain.
Re:It takes one to know one (Score:5, Interesting)
I once had the opportunity to talk to Catholic Bishop over a dinner. One thing that got me was how freaking smart that guy was. Fluent in at least 1/2 dozen languages, Master Degree in at least Bio Chemistry, he probably had more (we didn't try to ring him for his resume). He was book smart, street smart as well, as he was a bishop of some rather tough neighborhoods, extremely personable and very thoughtful on his thoughts on topics.
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This pope has actually read the bible.
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Especially the ode to boobies.
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You know you're full of shit when the pope calls you on it.
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You'd like them to publish data that supports your hypothesis hey?
Re: It takes one to know one (Score:1, Troll)
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They need to publish honest data that is verifiable. It is becoming blatantly obvious that the vaccines do not prevent infection, or prevent transmission of infection and that the benefit of being vaccinated is hardly significant. I am double vaccinated and tested positive this morning, so I am letting off some steam from my fever.
The vaccines are highly effective at preventing you from showing symptoms. Breakthrough cases with the strains up through delta have run about 1 case in 5000. Because the omicron strain has significant mutations in the spike protein that the vaccines use to stimulate your immune system, the breakthrough rate has risen to 1 in 100 for this strain. An omicron-specific upgrade to Moderna is now in the FDA pipeline.
What the vaccines have shown is tha the tests measure exposure, rather than infection. When some
Re: It takes one to know one (Score:1)
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Funny. It sounds very much like you've made up your mind about what the truth is, and are ticked because the data doesn't support your opinion.
But of course a worldwide conspiracy among tens of thousands of scientists is *much* more likely that the alternate hypothesis that you don't know what you're talking about. Occam's Razor after all.
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If anybody knows how to successfully spread nonsense and misinformation, it's the pope.
Not quite. While what the pope spreads is nonsense and misinformation, it is so only at its foundation. They have built a very complex and even somewhat consistent theory on that nonsense and it fools a lot of people into thinking they actually have something worthwhile considering.
In comparison, the anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are just rank amateurs with delusions.
How much is this part of the problem? (Score:1)
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If people trusted subject matter experts we wouldn't have this problem.
Re: How much is this part of the problem? (Score:2)
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If the Pope came out and said "God wants you to get vaccinated", a lot of people out there would probably listen.
Re:How much is this part of the problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
No they'd probably say he's compromised and now part of the deep state.
Re:How much is this part of the problem? (Score:4, Interesting)
How do you explain Trump getting booed when he asked people to get vaccinated? Didn't he brag about operation warp speed?
https://trumpwhitehouse.archiv... [archives.gov]
We’re here to discuss a monumental national achievement. From the instant the coronavirus invaded our shores, we raced into action to develop a safe and effective vaccine at breakneck speed. It would normally take five years, six years, seven years, or even more. In order to achieve this goal, we harnessed the full power of government, the genius of American scientists, and the might of American industry to save millions and millions of lives all over the world. We’re just days away from authorization from the FDA, and we’re pushing them hard, at which point we will immediately begin mass distribution.
Re: How much is this part of the problem? (Score:3)
Pope will be called deep state
Anyone notice this trend? That the left just makes shit up now? They'll invent something horrid, assign it to the right, and then criticize them for what they just made up. It happens all the time.
Everyone knows that deep state conspiracy theory was invented by ANTIFA to make Republicans look bad. The conspiracy theory that is, the actual deep state is really Jews with space lasers. That ALSO makes us look bad? Fuck, the actual deep state for real conspiracy theory was invented by Q aka George Soros, to trigger programming in all the ANTIFA plants in the Republican Party, which makes them the actual, corporeal, real deep state in being.
DNS-and-BIND, I WISH I had to make stuff up. I really, truly,
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Sure, can you leave citations? Sounds like a bunch of made-up bullshit.
Barack Obama was a progressive constitutional lawyer who expressed distrust of the secretive "Deep State." Yet his administration weaponized the IRS and surveilled Associated Press communications and a Fox News journalist for reporting unfavorable news based on supposed leaks.
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), said: "What the Breitbart crowd would call the 'Deep State' is what many of us would call 'knowledgeable professionals.'" [dailycaller.com]
Joe
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Anyone notice this trend? That the left just makes shit up now? They'll invent something horrid, assign it to the right, and then criticize them for what they just made up. It happens all the time.
Haven't you done just exactly that, only accusing the left of it?
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If the Pope came out and said "God wants you to get vaccinated", a lot of people out there would probably listen.
That's actually what the Pope is saying. Now in the USA you have ***holes like Cardinal Burke, an active anti-vaxxer who was smited by God for his sins (caught a rather nasty case of Covid himself).
And that guy Burke claims to be a conservative. I always thought conservatives were people who tried to conserve life on earth, like birds, bees, forests, and humans living in a place where Covid is around. Turns out they are the exact opposite, trying to destroy what they touch.
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How much is he part of the problem? He has no special expertise on science or scientific issues. He may have opinions on them, but there are far more people who have expertise. And even in terms of misinformation, there are academics who study that specifically. Why not see what they are saying about it? And yes, there really is a serious problem here probably, but quoting the Pope on it isn't really helping matters.
Yeah, Malaria meds, anti parasitics, and now drinking ones own urine rather than get a vaccine. I'd say there is a problem. This is clownworld. But I do hope the Aanti vaxxers put up tiktoks showing them enjoying the frosty foamy goodness of quaffing their pee. and savoring it's salty goodness. Doesn't get much better than that.
Now that being said, if a person wants to drink their own pee, losing their sense of taste and smell is a big advantage!
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He may have opinions on them, but there are far more people who have expertise. And even in terms of misinformation, there are academics who study that specifically. Why not see what they are saying about it?
You mean the ones who have been telling everyone neither hydrochloroquine nor goat paste has any effect on covid yet people keep ignoring them? The ones who have been saying vaccines are perfectly safe and help protect you, yet people keep ignoring them [imgur.com]? You mean those people who have expertise?
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it does in fact affect COVID and so does HCQ. There are multiple studies that support that claim.
Show one. Don't just say it. Provide evidence.
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How much is he part of the problem?
Absolutely zero. He's saying listen to doctors and medical science. Other leaders called it a hoax perpetrated by democrats.
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Here's an idea: you only get to complain about someone's lack of expertise on a problem if you're willing to listen to experts on that problem.
If you want to argue that people shouldn't be listening to Greta Thunberg, I'd enthusiastically agree with you. In a world where people paid serious attention to climate scientists, it would be better if the Greta Thunbergs of that world just STFU.
The fundamental problem is that *most* people decide what to believe by whether it falls in the Overton Window. The more
Re:How much is this part of the problem? (Score:4, Insightful)
He's not. He's making a perfectly reasonable assertion, that people need to be more active in combatting harmful pseudoscience around vaccines, masks, covid etc.
He's not an expert, but he IS a pope who has 1.3 billion catholics hanging on his every word. And as a demographic that tends to lean poor and right wing, its a demographic deeply at risk of politically motivated anti vax and anti mask propaganda. That makes him a perfect conduit to try and do that. Again, he's not an expert, but as the Pope he has a large scientific advisory organization (Jesuits!) able to make sure the information he imparts to the flock isn't harmful and incorrect.
The Pope telling 1.3 billion mostly poor people to get vaccinated and berating governments to provide vaccines and best practice interventions for covid cases, is potentially a huge step forward in closing the vaccine gap.
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Absolutely. And I'm actually glad to see the Pope actually propagate useful information rather than sticking to some archaic dogma which can justify any idiotic stance (like, God will protect us from Covid, no need for vaccines). This is quite a change from what we've seen in the past, and a refreshing one.
You can always wonder what legitimacy he has, but what if he was actually saying the opposite? We should at least acknowledge his responsible behavior, given the impact his words can have.
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the same word is used for both "pope" and "potato."
Ponder that next time you're hungry.
"Papa" and "Batata".
The same?
From those opposing condoms to prevent HIV (Score:5, Informative)
Did that Pope comment on why inhabitants of the Vatican state received 3rd vaccinations long before elsewhere in the world people were offered a 1st dose? And that was after the Pope gave some pathos-loaded speeches on "vaccine equality".
And by the way: Maybe the Pope should start cleaning out his own backyard before lecturing others: https://allafrica.com/stories/... [allafrica.com]
Re:From those opposing condoms to prevent HIV (Score:4, Insightful)
So your idea is that there are a bunch of Catholics who will commit fornication against the church's teachings, but make sure not to use condoms because of the church's teachings? I'm not convinced.
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Does that Pope know how many people died from HIV, and how much of those could have lived if the Catholic Church had not told them to not use condoms? [wikipedia.org]
So you are saying that they blindly listened to the Church on condoms but not adultery/fornication?
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So you are saying that they blindly listened to the Church on condoms but not adultery/fornication?
Given how many priests of the Catholic church adhered to its rule to not get married, while at the same time cohabiting with "housekeepers" or abusing acolytes, it is entirely possible that many Catholic laymen succumbed to concupiscence while still adhering to the "No condoms!" rule, which is certainly much easier to follow.
And btw., condoms protect against HIV even when married people are engaging in intercourse.
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Did that Pope comment on why inhabitants of the Vatican state received 3rd vaccinations long before elsewhere in the world people were offered a 1st dose? And that was after the Pope gave some pathos-loaded speeches on "vaccine equality".
The Vatican has a national population of around 800 people. 800 very old people. They need to be vaccinated, and their numbers would be a rounding error in most small nations.
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Did that Pope comment on why inhabitants of the Vatican state received 3rd vaccinations long before elsewhere in the world people were offered a 1st dose? And that was after the Pope gave some pathos-loaded speeches on "vaccine equality".
The Vatican has a national population of around 800 people. 800 very old people. They need to be vaccinated, and their numbers would be a rounding error in most small nations.
Every single person can claim that his personal N-th. dose of vaccine would not make a big difference. That is as plausible as saying it does not matter if I shit on the street, as long as everyone else does not.
Plus, if the stories about their almighty savior were not misinformation, "god's representatives on earth" would surely be protected from any Covid harm.
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Plus, if the stories about their almighty savior were not misinformation, "god's representatives on earth" would surely be protected from any Covid harm
Let me just say that this is nonsense. God helps those who help themselves. When there is an illness that can be very much stopped by getting vaccinated, and you refuse, then God isn't going to help you.
Why does anyone give a shit? (Score:4, Insightful)
Makes perfect sense. Except for the little boy diddling. That doesn't make any sense.
Re:Why does anyone give a shit? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know, but there are a billion+ people who do, and at least they're taking the responsible/reasonable stance this time.
He has at least one vociferous anti-vax bishop [wikipedia.org] and also a cardinal (haven't read his views though) [arstechnica.com] talking about how taking a vaccine is cannibalism because stem cells - never mind that they were used in research and not manufacturing. How do I know this? Because I've had at least one anti-vax friend/co-worker deep in a bunch of right wing conspiracy lunatic rabbit holes send me the video.
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The Catholic church has a long and sordid history of being wrong. Why does any modern, educated person give a shit what some bozo who believes some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you
accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, says.
Makes perfect sense. Except for the little boy diddling. That doesn't make any sense.
Well there's a ton of Catholics who do care what he says, and they get COVID, help decide political policies, and do all the other things that people do regardless of religious affiliation.
You can try making fun of them... but that doesn't really accomplish anything beyond your own amusement. I don't agree with the Pope on the existence of God, nor do I agree with a lot of things the Catholic Church has done. But this Pope does seem to be doing about as much as one could reasonably expect to make Catholic c
From the same organization who (Score:2)
said Galileo was full of misinformation.
Hypocrite (Score:1)
He had no choice (Score:2)
Thou Shalt Not Sling Bullshit on Spotify is right there on God's shopping list that Moses brought down from Mt Olympus or whatever.
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That probably happened when he was an alter boy.
Open the Library (Score:2)
Cool. Open the Vatican library to accredited academics for browsing, if accurate information is a Church priority. Let's see what stolen volumes [totally aren't] in there.
Catholics oppressed my Lutheran ancestors (Score:1)
Okay, the guy for whom religious dogma is a JOB. (Score:2)
Is trying to sell us on religious dogma.
WOW.
Who'd-a-thunk-it?
Oh, that's rich... (Score:1)
Love the pope (Score:1)
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Wow (Score:2)
A guy who believes in talking snakes is not an antivaxxer.
A miracle in my book.
Pope needs to read about the fox and the hen house (Score:2)