Energy Department Challenges Students To Wring More Efficiency From EVs (engadget.com) 64
The Energy Department has teamed with GM and MathWorks to launch an EcoCAR Electric Vehicle Challenge that asks student groups at 15 North American universities to develop more efficient EV technology. From a report: The will have students tinker with a Cadillac Lyriq over four years as they develop automation, connectivity and propulsion tech, and they can will win annual prizes based on their progress. The teams are also expected to use a mix of connected car and sensor tech to enable sharing EV battery power with homes, "recreational uses" (think camping) and the electrical grid. GM is supplying the cars as part of a broader $6 million investment in the challenge. EcoCAR kicks off this fall.
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The winning team gets one high efficiency EV each. :)
Joking aside I think it's good to have a competition, most issues with EVs today isn't performance, it's range. Especially range in winter where you want heat.
Re: DOE Seeks Free Breakthrough in Energy Efficien (Score:2)
Everyone with an EV already has an efficient EV. You just need to drive it 20mph and never accelerate or decelerate (not for red lights, stop signs, etc) and drive only on level ground. You'll go hundreds of miles in most EVs out there.
That is the "cost" of regular 80mph driving in an EV. Acceleration and speed are power expensive.
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It works for gasoline cars, too. What fun!
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The acceleration/deceleration problems is mostly solved, because batteries do so much better than internal combustion here, and you can regen power when braking or slowing. But yet, most people who do try to save gasoline or battery life will drive slower, the instrumentation that shows you your rate of consumption by itself is often enough to cause the driver to save on consumption.
An Idea! (Score:2)
You just mentioned a GOOD IDEA:
Research ways to have drivers be smarter with good design patterns! Use psychology maybe find a way to integrate into insurance. Slower safer driving should get you lower insurance rates and greatly improve energy use. Many things could be tried to fix the HUMAN weak point.
I see nutty drivers everyday who need much higher gas prices before they think about their reckless and wasteful driving.
Me, I'd like a cruse control that factors in incline, wind, energy use, and the other
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So long as the results are released into the public domain then where's the problem?
The students get the prize and something for their resume. It's all good.
Play Stupid Games, Lose. (Score:2)
So, GM is outsourcing their EV engineering department to students, in which they will receive some amazing and likely patent controlled solution, which could ultimately generate billions in sales and profits, and the student gets to pick a prize out of the bowl, sponsored by Cracker Jack?
Don't be surprised when that student suddenly becomes a foreign student, determined to work for a country that might actually respect them.
Oh, and as a taxpayer, it's so nice to see GM outsourcing engineering to save money
Re:Play Stupid Games, Lose. (Score:5, Informative)
So, GM is outsourcing their EV engineering department to students, in which they will receive some amazing and likely patent controlled solution, which could ultimately generate billions in sales and profits, and the student gets to pick a prize out of the bowl, sponsored by Cracker Jack?
Challenges such as this are not new. Technlogy costs money, and support for student design efforts pays off for both sides of the equation. The student gets access to technology, often support from the company in terms of technical information and access to engineers, enabling them to develop marketable skills. It's hard to say what the ownership rules will be for developed technology, but often any tech developed using university resources belongs to the university, not the student. If a group of students come up with some breakthrough tech they're likely to be offered jobs not just by IBM but by a number of other companies based on what they did.
Even if tehy don't come up with some great new idea they've gained some practical skills and knowledge to add to their resume.
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This is inherently an unequal and inequitable arrangement.
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Yeah, there's a compelling argument to be made for placing technology developed using public funds into the public domain, though that might have other unwanted effects.
I would say though that at the very least those public funds should buy a promise of reasonable and non-discriminatory licensing.
Of course there's still obvious issues of, e.g. turning the government fund development through v0.9, and then going private for that final step to a commercial product and more refined versions - so maybe some cla
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So, GM is outsourcing their EV engineering department to students, in which they will receive some amazing and likely patent controlled solution, which could ultimately generate billions in sales and profits, and the student gets to pick a prize out of the bowl, sponsored by Cracker Jack?
Challenges such as this are not new. Technlogy costs money, and support for student design efforts pays off for both sides of the equation. The student gets access to technology, often support from the company in terms of technical information and access to engineers, enabling them to develop marketable skills.
Not going to disagree with any of that. I guess my heartburn as a taxpayer, is that whole technology-cost-money step, where Too Big To Fail is stepping in and riding on the coattails of DOE in order to profit heavily from obscenely cheap crowdsourcing and ultimately labor. Given the taxpayer bailout, they shouldn't even be eligible for such generous rewards, and they probably wouldn't, if not for so many lawmakers heavily invested in GM right about now. Ah, don't you just love the smell of Corruption in
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Huh. Tends to make you wonder how the hell someone as prestigious as Harvard Law let Facebook slip through their hands, doesn't it? One would think they would have been smarter with their student 'EULA'.
Good point. My guess the whole idea of commercializing such things was so off the radar they never really thought about it; and probably focused on stuff developed in lab situations under the direction of professors. Of course there are a variety of laws and IP is different than say patent laws; so software ownership is probably harder to claim by a university. I had to assign rights when I did work for a project at my grad school, for example. I suspect it varies by school, etc., no one wants to be teh
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It's an extension of a common challenge for college students, the fuel efficiency challenge.
Basically the goal of the competition (and yes, it's a competition) is to go the furthest you can on a set amount of fuel. It's used to examine ways to make more efficient vehicles, though the tricks to get the most range often aren't practical (e.g., going slowly reduces the effects of form drag lowering air resistance and thus improving gas mileage).
Given modern vehicles, an equivalent competition featuring alterna
Attribution (Score:2)
Only Fools would give out ideas for free
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Now a startup where you've already started generating cash from your idea, that get's their attention.
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Now a startup where you've already started generating cash from your idea, that get's their attention.
Are you nuts? The most lucrative startups burn through cash like a brush fire. After a few hundred million they rise from the ashes like a phoenix and are highly profitable forever, only going up.
Re: Attribution (Score:2)
You make a good point. I had forgotten about that totally happening.
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And yet society is somehow genuinely made better because of such "fools".
Not everything in life is about money, you know.
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My first thought was "only fools can't spell "they""
My second was "never buy a car from someone who can't spell "they"...
Smaller (Score:2)
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Not really, you need to make people thinner too.
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And how do you get people to agree to do this?
The Villages (a very large retirement community in Florida) did it by putting in golf cart paths throughout the entire community. It's extremely ironic to see a bunch of old, heavily conservative-leaning retired people living the progressive dream, at least as it relates to carbon-free efficient personal transportation.
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WOW that is special.
Well golf carts tend to use lead acid batteries so maybe not as environmentally friendly as you might think, also most of Florida's electricity is generated by combined cycle gas plants so not as carbon free as you might think as well.
I'll just pass over your bigotry, because it's really hard to talk to a bigot about that.
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Lead acid batteries are actually one of the bigger successes [waste360.com] in recycling.
Even with a filthy grid, BEVs still represent a significant reduction in CO2 emissions versus ICE vehicles. [forbes.com] Furthermore, when you're talking about golf carts, the difference is even more significant. By virtue of being smaller, lighter and driven at slower speeds, they're more efficient than a typical full-size street legal BEV.
The political demographics of The Villages are what they are. [wikipedia.org] The only reason I brought politics into it
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/r... [forbes.com]
Lead-Acid Batteries
The single-biggest environmental issue with lead-acid batteries involves the lead component of the battery. Lead is a heavy metal with potentially dangerous health impacts. Ingestion of lead is especially dangerous for young children because their brains are still developing.
In the 20th century, leaded gasoline and lead-based paints were extensively disseminated in the environment. Today those sources have largely been eliminated. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), today around 85% of the world’s lead consumption is for the production of lead-acid batteries.
The good news is that lead-acid batteries are 99% recyclable. However, lead exposure can still take place during the mining and processing of the lead, as well as during the recycling steps.
The WHO report referenced above noted that lead recycling is an important source of environmental contamination and human exposure in many countries where it is poorly regulated. Lead recycling in such countries is often carried out without the necessary processes and technologies to control lead emissions.
Your definition of success is intriguing.
The political demographics of The Villages are what they are. [wikipedia.org] The only reason I brought politics into it is because the Republican Party typically doesn't support the concept of building communities that are greener by design, and their voters are not known for being the type of people who'd willingly trade their SUVs and big trucks for a golf cart with a top speed of around 40MPH.
Yes because conservatives hate things just to hate them not because they aren't particularly useful. Commuting to work in a golf cart is problematic for most people.
I will point out this is a case of the facts opposing your bigoted view of a people, and instead of asking yourself "Are there good reasons for this viewpoint" you are just amazed that a blind cat occasionally finds a dead mouse.
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>"Not everyone has your use model. I don't think you want to go to a world where you can only have what you need."
Bingo.
Not every wants to drive a tiny, cramped, small, light, slow, under-performing car. If they did, this would be easy.
On the same topic, not everyone that wants an EV cares about virtue signaling in some strange-looking concept thing or wants a car that sheds traditional controls and displays for a video game mounted between the driver and passenger that tracks everything. I know many p
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I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but but that won't make a dent in overall emissions.
About 69% (nice) of oil in the US is used for transportation [procon.org], the vast majroity of which will be ground transport. There aren't that many rich assholes in planes and spaceships in comparison.
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We can reduce the size of private cars via tax incentives, reducing parking space sizes to favour smaller cars (more efficient use of space too), & tax incentives for car manufacturers so that they change their advertising narratives to encourage people to buy smaller cars. All perfectly do-able.
If we want to encourage manufacturers to increase the battery/motor efficiency of their products, then create a comprehensive, standard, objective ratings syste
Re: Smaller (Score:2)
reducing parking space sizes to favour smaller cars
My compact sedan has a much longer door than my SUV. And being lower, the door must be swung wider to get in and out. With the SUV, I can crack the door, put my feet on the ground standing up straight and squeeze out sideways. So, when visiting businesses with the inevitable compact car spaces, I will always select the Landcruiser.
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You should be taxed additionally
I am taxed for each one. Every year, when I buy tabs for them.
However, should that tax rate rise and I need to sell all but one, the bro-truck stays. The smaller sedans get scrapped.
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Things aren't as easy and conclusive as that.
A lot of people have limited space for parking and can't afford two vehicles so they settle for the vehicle that can do most of the things they want so they select vehicle for that, not the vehicle for minimum needed for commuting.
Of course some people might be able to bicycle to work instead of taking a car, pretty common in Europe, so then they might still have a large car in the garage.
A small car also have a shorter operating range than a large. Not fun to ha
Re: Smaller (Score:2)
Sometimes I need the big SUV. I happen to be wealthy enough to own and maintain a selection of vehicles. So that each one can be matched to the current task. Not everyone is so fortunate.
Replace gas with cats! (Score:2)
A cat produces more warming pollution than an SUV and it lives twice as long (approx 16.)
Find a way to throw cats into the car and turn them into fuel and even if it's worse than the cat, it'll greatly shorten many cat's long lifespan of pollution for a huge net gain.
But seriously, research it, litter, food, transport for a cat is worse than a gas SUV. It's ok, you can accept this and still keep your cat... as long as you don't let it near a road.
How about an EV that shocks the nuts of the driver, sterilizi
Battery, battery, battery (Score:5, Insightful)
>"asks student groups at 15 North American universities to develop more efficient EV technology"
None of the stuff listed in the summary (charging, "sharing" energy with the home, car "connectivity", sensors, etc) matters for the presumed topic- efficiency. EV's don't have an "efficiency" problem other than energy storage. Anything else is dwarfed by that. For example, trying to squeeze 0.5% more out of already extremely efficient electric motors is probably a waste of resources that need to be focused on batteries.
Cut the cost of batteries.
Increase the capacity of batteries.
Decrease the volume of batteries.
Decrease the weight of batteries.
Increase the speed of charging of batteries.
Increase the service life of batteries.
Decrease the rare/scarce components of batteries.
Increase the recyclability of batteries.
Decrease the temperature effects of batteries.
Increase the safety of batteries.
It is all about batteries.
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We could have had EVs decades earlier if it hadn't been for patents on NiMH vehicle batteries preventing it.
NiMH is lower energy density than lithium, but as the original Nissan Leaf with 24kWh battery proved you don't actually need massive range to start replacing many people's personal vehicles and commercial vehicles like taxis. NiMH is also fairly cheap.
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>We could have had EVs decades earlier if it hadn't
> been for patents on NiMH vehicle batteries preventing it.
this assumes, of course, that that technology would have been developed if there were no prospector patenting it . . .
(and, indeed, some things would, the biggest example probably being government funded university research. And at the other extreme is pharmaceutical research)
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We have already reached the point where batteries are big enough to basically be equivalent to ICE cars. The current record holder for Bjorn Nyland's 1000km (621mi) challenge, done in Norway so far from ideal conditions for EVs, is only 15m slower than a benchmark fossil fuel car. That's a 9.5 hour journey, or an additional 2.6% time needed.
We just need to get the price down now, and work on recycling. Well, many countries need to work on getting the infrastructure to be as good as Norway, but much of weste
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Cut the cost of batteries.
That's basically it. The problem with getting widespread BEV adoption is economic, not technological. Most environmental issues are ultimately the result of numbers on some balance sheet.
We've had electric cars since 1890, and carbon free nuclear energy since 1956. It has just been cheaper to continue to burn dead dinos, and entire communities have been designed around the assumption that the middle class will always have access to affordable private vehicle ownership.
Yes, the planet got destroyed. But [twitter.com]
Super capacitor supplements! (Score:2)
Parent is 100% spot on.
1) Add to batteries with electronics that manage a capacitor bank filling whatever available space they can find; these would suit stop/go traffic situations perfectly and reduce the losses on battery use. A bus could fill the roof with massive capacitors up to the height of semi-trucks.
2) Open source battery management platform; helping 3rd parties to create battery packs which can be adapted to EVs or maybe become the management system or even a standardized one. The AA battery sta
Aptera - Most Efficient EV so far on paper (Score:2)
I've ordered an Aptera. [aptera.us]
The secret is aerodynamics, less friction, solar cells, and light composite materials. The claims are that:
- can charge itself up to 40 miles per day via solar cells.
- accelerate from 0-60 MPH in 3.5 secs in AWD model
- max speed 110 MPH
- charge 200 miles on a 120 VAC wall plug overnight.
- charge 100 miles per 10 minutes at charge stations.
- range of up to 1000 miles on a single battery charge with optional large battery.
- uses only 1kw per mile
A car like this is the best answer so fa
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Nice solution. I would *NOT* want to drive 1000 miles in that thing however.
The problem with the Aptera is that it is small enough for tooting around town, but for long distance it lacks cargo space for things like "off grid camping" or luggage etc.. (see website for intended use-cases of this vehicle)
So it has a paradoxical problem that it can go great distances with little energy, but it's not practical for those long distances due to it's limited cargo capacity and sheer size.
Don't get me wrong, I like the engineering, and I wish them luck. I just think the use-case and marketing is a bit queer.
The cargo area is 7 feet long behind the passenger seats. The vehicle itself is bigger than a Tesla 3 or Prius. But it is not a Cybertruck, but then a Cybertruck will never charge itself. I would compare it to a very fast, electric Honda CRX or early Insight that charges itself.
We'll see what the ride is like when it ships.
Useless (Score:2)
Efficiency does not seem to be the problem. The problems seem to be initial cost, power distribution, charging infrastructure, energy storage capacity, strategic access to materials.
How to improve efficiency. (Score:2)
The first thing you need to look at is where does the consumed energy go.
Small losses in the battery. Not much you can do about that.
small losses in the electronic drive circuitry (ESC in model airplane speak). Sure, making that more efficient will gain you a few more percent.
small losses in the motor. Some improvements can be made, but everybody is already doing their best.
small losses in the drive train. (fixed gear ratio gearbox).
And most of the energy is delivered to the wheels. Where does it go from t
More efficient EVs (Score:2)
The key to more efficient EVs isn't rocket science. The damn things are too heavy. All modern cars are.
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Weight and Air resistance are the biggest issues.
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The key to more efficient EVs isn't rocket science. The damn things are too heavy. All modern cars are.
Airbags have mass. Rollover cages have mass. Crumple zones have mass. Batteries have mass, a lot of mass. Make the cars lighter and you have to give up on safety, range, or some other place.
Most of what made today's cars heavier than yesterday's cars is the safety requirements. If you want lighter cars then you will get less safe cars. This is rocket science because it is rocket science where so much of our lighter and stronger materials come from.
We use steel in cars because steel is durable, and che
Battery electric vehicles will fail. (Score:2)
Battery electric cars will fail. Batteries take tons of exotic materials to make, and mining all that material is an environmental disaster in the making. Batteries don't have the energy density for anything practical but the common commuter car, and a few other low range vehicles like forklifts and some delivery vans. Everything else will still require hydrocarbon fuels.
What is the problem with hydrocarbon fuels today? The problem is that we get the fuels by pumping long lost carbon from deep in the gr
Thosepooer students (Score:2)
"They will have students tinker with a Cadillac"
A Cadillac? Do they have to listen to Barry Manilow as well?
Lit (Score:1)