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The Military Power

What Happened After Russia Seized Chernobyl Nuclear Disaster Site? (apnews.com) 144

The Associated Press files this report from Chernobyl, where invading tanks in February "churned up highly contaminated soil from the site of the 1986 accident that was the world's worst nuclear disaster..."

"Here in the dirt of one of the world's most radioactive places, Russian soldiers dug trenches. Ukrainian officials worry they were, in effect, digging their own graves." For more than a month, some Russian soldiers bunked in the earth within sight of the massive structure built to contain radiation from the damaged Chernobyl nuclear reactor. A close inspection of their trenches was impossible because even walking on the dirt is discouraged.... Maksym Shevchuck, the deputy head of the state agency managing the exclusion zone, believes hundreds or thousands of soldiers damaged their health, likely with little idea of the consequences, despite plant workers' warnings to their commanders. "Most of the soldiers were around 20 years old," he said....

The full extent of Russia's activities in the Chernobyl exclusion zone is still unknown, especially because the troops scattered mines that the Ukrainian military is still searching for. Some have detonated, further disturbing the radioactive ground. The Russians also set several forest fires, which have been put out.

Ukrainian authorities can't monitor radiation levels across the zone because Russian soldiers stole the main server for the system, severing the connection on March 2. The International Atomic Energy Agency said Saturday it still wasn't receiving remote data from its monitoring systems. The Russians even took Chernobyl staffers' personal radiation monitors....

When the Russians hurriedly departed March 31 as part of a withdrawal from the region that left behind scorched tanks and traumatized communities, they took more than 150 Ukrainian national guard members into Belarus. Shevchuck fears they're now in Russia. In their rush, the Russians gave nuclear plant managers a choice: Sign a document saying the soldiers had protected the site and there were no complaints, or be taken into Belarus. The managers signed.

The article includes more stories from Chernobyl's staff: Even now, weeks after the Russians left, "I need to calm down," the plant's main security engineer, Valerii Semenov, told The Associated Press. He worked 35 days straight, sleeping only three hours a night, rationing cigarettes and staying on even after the Russians allowed a shift change. "I was afraid they would install something and damage the system," he said in an interview....

Another Ukrainian nuclear plant, at Zaporizhzhia in southeastern Ukraine, remains under Russian control. It is the largest in Europe.

Long-time Slashdot reader MattSparkes also notes reports that researchers at Chernobyl "had been looking for bacteria to eat radioactive waste — but they now fear that their work was irreparably lost during the Russian invasion of the facility."

New Scientist reports (in a pay-walled article) that scientist Olena Pareniuk "was attempting to identify bacteria that could consume radioactive waste within Chernobyl's destroyed reactor before the Russian invasion. If her samples are lost it will likely be impossible to replace them."
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What Happened After Russia Seized Chernobyl Nuclear Disaster Site?

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  • I've said this before, that there's a bizarre juxtaposition with some of the back-woods conscripts Russia sent vs. the high tech you get from a more liberal society. This one is tragic of course. These Russians were deliberately uninformed about where they were and what could happen. Chernobyl is to them what the North Carolina coup or the burning of Black Wall Street are to some Americans; but a lack of knowledge going in to Chernobyl makes you something worse than ignorant. It makes you dead.

    In anothe

    • by andot ( 714926 )
      Russia has systematically killed, deported and turning alcoholics their smart people for more than 100 years. This is the outcome. Everything they touch is turning to crap.
    • If nothing else, this nicely indicates that in a world situation wherein there is general consensus that nuclear weapons are too dangerous to human survival to be used, a non-nuclear missile aimed deliberately or not deliberately at a nuclear power center can destroy an entire city and make the area uninhabitable for centuries. It indicates the world in general is too unstable to permit nuclear power to be placed where millions of people can die by a military error.
      • by blahabl ( 7651114 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @04:31AM (#62473404)

        If nothing else, this nicely indicates that in a world situation wherein there is general consensus that nuclear weapons are too dangerous to human survival to be used, a non-nuclear missile aimed deliberately or not deliberately at a nuclear power center can destroy an entire city and make the area uninhabitable for centuries. It indicates the world in general is too unstable to permit nuclear power to be placed where millions of people can die by a military error.

        Uninhabitable for centuries? You do know people live in Hiroshima like in every other city? It got resettled right after the war. There's even a nice park right at ground zero, and no, it doesn't glow in the dark. So unless you're talking of salted bombs, "rendering anything uninhabitable for centuries" is not what atomic bombs do.

        • I am fully aware of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but the somewhat feeble first bombs are quite different than a normal heavy explosion of an atomic disaster such as Chernobyl where huge quantities of stored radioactives are stored within and outside of an active reactor or perhaps several active reactors, I agree that what might happen may not be as disastrous as I suspect, but I wonder how predictable that may be. Fukushima indicates radioactive spreads with very lengthy dangers are not a total fantasy.
        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          The bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki were detonated as air bursts high enough that the fallout would be sucked upwards into the stratosphere and be distributed globally for the most part rather than concentrated locally. Detonating a nuclear weapon on the ground leaves a lot more persistent local fallout in the area. Also, a nuclear weapon contains a tiny amount of fuel compared to a typical powerplant (including the fuel in the reactor, spent fuel stored on-site, etc.), so there's a lot more highly toxi

          • The bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki were detonated as air bursts high enough that the fallout would be sucked upwards into the stratosphere and be distributed globally for the most part rather than concentrated locally.
            That is complete nonsense. Is that some American narrative you get your conscious clean?
            The bombs detonated in the rain season. All the fall out rained down instantly. Hint: black rain there is actually a movie about it, oh it is a action movie and not accurately in history: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]

            More people died to the fall put and the decade long suffering of the Hibakusha than to the detonation itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            Stupid American idiots.

            Since when the fuck is an atomic bomb "safe" and does not cause radiation? How can one be so stupid to believe such bullshit?

            • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:40PM (#62474070) Homepage

              #1, They meant 'safer' and less radiation, rather than totally safe and does not cause any radiation. Anyone with an IQ over 100 would have realized that. Your comment itself displays less intelligence than theirs, despite being closer to the truth than theirs.

              #2. Why do you feel the need to call them American? Can't they be stupid people? This is the best indicative of prejudice, bringing up irrelevant facts to make a group look bad.

              #3. Before the bombs were dropped, literally no one knew how bad it would be. How could they? They had no experience with it at all. The only way to find out was to do it.

              #4. The cities have recovered. The pop before the bombing was just under 400k, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 died (including indirect deaths), and is now over 1 million.

              #4. Americans do not need a narrative to make their conscience clean. In WWII they were attacked in an ambush. The Japanese did far worse things to China than nuking them and to this DAY still do not teach what they actually did. I am not talking about refusing to admit the atrocities everyone knows they committed (rape of China, mistreatment of American POWs). Instead I am talking about how their high school leaves out major facts they admit happened. Some of their own young woman committed suicide when told about their countries surrender because they believed the Americans would do to them what the Japanese had done to the young woman in areas they conquered.

              #5. America bombed once, they asked for surrender, the Japanese refused, and they repeated the process. The second bombing was as much Japans fault as anyone else. Clearly Japan did not think it was as horrendous as you claim. Yes, some of the horror came later, but this is not relevant. The refusal to surrender is an acknowledgement that the bombing was not as bad as you believe.

              Innocent Japanese were punished harshly by the Atomic bombs for things their government had done over the past 5 years. Blaiming the US for what happened is like a mass murderer complaining about being beaten by the cops when he was arrested. Definitely should not have happened, but they get no sympathy from anyone and everyone thinks less of them for whining about it.

              • Basically every point: wrong.

                Especially #3.

                They knew perfectly. They tested it on pigs, sheep: and their own soldiers.

                #5. America bombed once, they asked for surrender, the Japanese refused, and they repeated the process. The second bombing was as much Japans fault as anyone else.

                That is wrong. They did not refuse. They asked for surrender months before the first bomb. But either america ignored it, or the russians really kept it a secret. Second point very unlikely.

                Blaiming the US for what happened is lik

            • by _merlin ( 160982 )

              You really like arguing in bad faith, don't you? I'm not American, I think it was wrong of America to choose civilian targets for the bombs (they wanted to see the effects on relatively intact cities) and lie to their own population about it, I don't think the second nuclear bomb was really necessary.

              The Hiroshima bomb was detonated at an altitude of approximately 600 metres to maximise damage from the shockwave. At that altitude, a large proportion of the fallout will rise into the stratosphere. That's

              • At that altitude, a large proportion of the fallout will rise into the stratosphere.
                No it wont. 600m is very low. The stratosphere starts at 10,000 meters.

                You really like arguing in bad faith,
                Nope. Unlike you I perfectly know that the "atomic mushroom" did not extend to the stratosphere, how the fuck would that even remotely physically be possible/plausible?

                Here, something about your bad faith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] - nothing was blown into the stratosphere. It rained down later just a few hour

        • Uninhabitable for centuries? You do know people live in Hiroshima like in every other city?

          Did you just argue with a nuclear bomb (tens of kg of fissile material at best) as an example why an exploding reactor (tens of *tonnes* of fissile material) is safe to be around?

        • Well,
          it might surprise you that there is a difference between:
          a1) having a nuclear bomb with like 20kg Uranium going off
          a2) having heavy rain washing of the fall out into the rivers
          (most people that died after the bomb died, because they bathed in the river, to cool the burns

          Versus:
          b) some reactor literally exploded and spread tons (not kgs) of Uranium and Plutonium around the are.

          • I never said anything about reactors, heck, never even used the word "reactor" in the post. L2Read one day.
            • But you talked about the reactor.
              What has that to do with saying reactor?

              The rector and the surrounding area is/was the topic.

    • Why do I get the feeling that you've never met, or worked in, the "backwoods of Russia"?

      I suspect that you're describing the backwoods Americans you see around you, including the casual racist piggery. The "I don't understand this, therefore MAGIC!" stupidity is probably something buggered into you by your priests in your childhood. Priests like MAGIC as an explanation of their lies to their audience.

      • by mmell ( 832646 )
        Uh, Russian collective myths and legends aren't too different from most "Western" superstitions.

        With that said, yes, OP's hyperbole was showing. More likely, these stupid yokels (can I call them that? Yokel isn't strictly an American term, right?) will think those evil Ukrainians put some kind of poison on everything. If anybody explains the radiation to them, they'll take it as proof they were right. It's a poison called "Uranium", just like belladonna, strychnine and arsenic. Nothing special. I don

        • "Yokel" is a perfectly normal EN_GB word too, and I don't think the meanings differ too much across the ocean. Here it would be an agricultural labourer, working machines with instructions in pictures, not words, because words might be too complicated for the yokel. If, of course, the yokel could find work, except in picking the crop.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Russia's economy bombed. They're no longer relevant internationally. Their assets are being seized. Need me to go on?

    • Re: What happened? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Malays2 bowman ( 6656916 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:24AM (#62473158)

      So it's possible that all of this was Putin's last attempt at yelling "We're great, we're great, We're still great!" at the world. A fucking anti-funny circus, that's all this clown produced.

      Russia is finished. They are now a piriah to the entire world, save for a motley crew of ragtags, and batshit crazy land locked sea pirates. Russia is now a joke, a laughing stock, and HATED.

      Wait until Russia goes the way of North Korea, only difference is Russia will have only "show nukes" that they can't launch without them exploding inside their own collapsing silos while NK may end up sucessfuly developing the real deal (god forbid)

      • There's a video showing Putin's hand and leg involuntarily spasming. It could be Parkinson's, or it could be something else, but the man appears to be unwell. Does he even know this? There's speculation that it could be neurological to the point where Putin is not, in fact, in control of his mental faculties. In which case, the Russian generals who are carrying out his orders are dooming their country on the whims of a man whose lights are on, but no one's home. Does no one in the command structure ask
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by mmell ( 832646 )
          The 25th Amendment didn't do us any good, we had to wait until 2020, when the voters finally got our mad king out of office.
          • Because the US has rule of law. Elections don't get nullified when the corporate world and a large mob decide they don't like the outcome of an election.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by gtall ( 79522 )

              Given the Republicans dirty tricks in "tightening" voter laws, the jury's still out on whether a large mob gets a do-over. R's figure there's only one way to ensure they do not lose again.

              • It doesn't matter whether it's your team or the other. Rule of law matters.

                Politics would have a hope of some sanity returning if people like you would switch that obsession away from politics. Have you considered following a sports team or adopting religious fundamentalism?

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

              Because the US has rule of law.

              The US has rule of money. We embody capitalism. And not coincidentally, our bodies are failing, because we can't get health care as a result.

              Elections don't get nullified when the corporate world and a large mob decide they don't like the outcome of an election.

              The corporate world didn't want another Trump presidency. One was enough. It fucked up all the spreadsheets. The only benefit to them was how he buttfucked the EPA. Trump wasn't satisfied with undoing Obama's good deeds, he had to go after Nixon's too.

            • by mmell ( 832646 )
              The 25th Amendment is law. Q.E.D., the rest of your statement is incorrect (or at best, irrelevant).
        • What's scary is thar Russia has maintained up until this point the outer apperances of a democracy, but there was always a dictatorship structure underneath. And I imagine any one who questions Putin's mental health will 'mysteriously' disappear in an instant.

          I hope that the ones who operate the actual launch keys to the missiles themselves will refuse to do so and will have enough guts to fight off/shoot their own commanders if those commanders try to force their way to those control panels to laun

          • What's scary is thar Russia has maintained up until this point the outer apperances of a democracy, but there was always a dictatorship structure underneath. And I imagine any one who questions Putin's mental health will 'mysteriously' disappear in an instant.

            Someone's already murdering Russian Oligarchs. The two that made the news this week weren't the first.

            OTOH, considering what this whole sh.sh. has done for Russian interests, I'm surprised they haven't hoffa'd Putin yet.

            • Re: What happened? (Score:5, Informative)

              by crunchygranola ( 1954152 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:01AM (#62473868)

              Someone's already murdering Russian Oligarchs. The two that made the news this week weren't the first.

              OTOH, considering what this whole sh.sh. has done for Russian interests, I'm surprised they haven't hoffa'd Putin yet.

              Since the Russian Invasion the number of oligarchs that have died by unnaturally has risen to six [newsweek.com], all of them claimed to be suicides though with three of these "suicides" the entire family present was also murdered in bloody fashion.

              • "A man commited suicide today in Moscow. He shot his own head 6 times, the bullets penetrating right through his brain before he chained his hands behind his back and threw himself into the river tethered to a one ton weight that he hoisted over the bridge, dragging him over the railing. Russian police stated that he left a typed suicide note and was having marital problems right before he committed suicide."

              • It's likely foul play, OTOH it could've been that their assets were being seized worldwide, and their opulent world was crumbling fast all around them.

                  A king one day, a beggar in the streets who might as well be a leper the next. That thought could've caused some of them to committ suicode.

                • If it were me, I'd just keep a gun close by until I actually was a beggar in the streets.

                  Unless I were facing prison...or worse...

                  I mean it's a question of which prison and how long I suppose, but how long a sentence would I have to face in my own country before I'd become a fugitive unwilling to be taken alive?

                  And how would that differ from how much time it would take in other countries.

        • Don't make the mistake of assuming that his trusted advisors don't have their own agendas. They're known for poisoning people, after all...

        • If it's this one [youtube.com] then holy shit, he looks like he's hanging onto the table for support and barely there. My neighbour who's in heart failure looks more alive than Putin does in that video.
          • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

            I don't like Putin and I'd love for him to be sent to some gulag to do hard labour for his crimes but this video is nothing. He's not using the table for support because he is sitting and his hand appears to be working fine.

          • If it's this one [youtube.com] then *snip*

            Health aside, that must be a propaganda flick. I don't think dictators consult with their henchmen while posed in front of a camera.

      • Russia is finished. They are now a piriah to the entire world, save for a motley crew of ragtags, and

        ...China.

        You forgot one of the largest and most nations on the planet there, sport.

        Pretty much everyone already "hated" "Russia". Everyone with any historical perspective, anyway. And pretty much everyone already hated Putin in particular. I've met multiple Russians who left specifically because Putin came to power. He was already known as a murderer.

        I don't hate "Russia", I hate Russian oligarchs. But as a political entity I have always feared Russia. But then again, many fear the USA, and for many of the

      • > They are now a piriah to the entire world, save for a
        > motley crew of ragtags

        Modi bent the knee to Putin and declared India for Russia fairly early in the war. And China has been very careful to sit on the fence and neither fully support nor fully condemn Putin yet. That's at least India's 1.3 billion in Russia's camp, plus potentially China's 1.4 billion. That's not really "a motley crew of ragtags, and batshit crazy land locked sea pirates.."

        • "Modi bent the knee to Putin and declared India for Russia fairly early in the war. "

          Ok, I'm not all that familiar with Indian politics, but somehow I doubt most Indians support what he is doing, and they don't want to go off and fight for a cause that has nothing to do with them and would not benefit them in any way.

          "And China has been very careful to sit on the fence and neither fully support nor fully condemn Putin yet. That's at least India's 1.3 billion in Russia's camp, plus potentially China's 1.4 bi

    • They're no longer relevant internationally

      Are you nuts?! Large european countries can't drop abruptly imports from Russian gas... The sanctions are largely based on sanctioning persons, not companies...

  • I am not a military man, but capturing some territory is usually done because it has military value, or that it is value to your opponent. I really can't see what value Chernobyl has to anybody, Russia or Ukraine. Mind you, I am ascribing rational military planning to the Russian army, and there is plenty of evidence that they just blast ahead as a mindless mob.

    • Russia just used Chernobyl area as a shortcut to reach Kiev area...
      • by RockDoctor ( 15477 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @08:39AM (#62473670) Journal
        That strategy depended on having free access to the northern border of the Ukraine through Belarus - which is exactly what Lukashenko provided to them. That the Russians were too incompetent to take advantage of this "Get Out of Russia Free" card they were given is the Russian's problem.

        Lukashenko must be livid at being let down by his allies like this, and is going to have to seriously consider how he's going to dig his way out of the hole he has dug his way into. But those chickens aren't going to come home to roost for months yet. Keep Calm, Crack Down Harder and Carry On! [wikipedia.org]" would be the order of the next few months in Minsk.

        Did I hear mention of Russian support for Transnestria [wikipedia.org] and it's independence? So, they're looking to make their revised version of Ukraine a land-locked country. And, for that matter, an almost Russia-locked country (treating both Transnistria and Belarus as effectively extensions of Russian territory - which they will be).

      • Russia just used Chernobyl area as a shortcut to reach Kiev area...

        That does not explain why the Russians occupied the area, rather than marching through it. Russian troops dug trenches, like they meant to stay there for a bit.

        • I'm speaking to a military experienced commander here, right? Military experienced commander live in their parent's basement!
      • I have the impression they just wanted to provoke the west because they could. Putin seems to be going through a late puberty fase.
    • It was an easy path to the capital, because there was no army stationed there, for some reason. They were able to just march right through.

  • by manu0601 ( 2221348 ) on Sunday April 24, 2022 @07:06PM (#62474942)

    researchers at Chernobyl "had been looking for bacteria to eat radioactive waste

    Given than it will not suppress radioactivity, what is the goal? Concentrate it to help isolate it?

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