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Social Networks

Is Social Media Training Us to Please a Machine? (damagemag.com) 69

A remarkably literary critique of the internet appeared recently in Damage magazine — a project of the nonprofit Society for Psychoanalytic Inquiry funded by the American Psychoanalytic Foundation. "There are ways in which the internet really does seem to work like a possessing demon..." argues writer Sam Kriss.

"We tend to think that the internet is a communications network we use to speak to one another — but in a sense, we're not doing anything of the sort. Instead, we are the ones being spoken through." Teens on TikTok all talk in the exact same tone, identical singsong smugness. Millennials on Twitter use the same shrinking vocabulary. My guy! Having a normal one! Even when you actually meet them in the sunlit world, they'll say valid or based, or say y'all despite being British....

Everything you say online is subject to an instant system of rewards. Every platform comes with metrics; you can precisely quantify how well-received your thoughts are by how many likes or shares or retweets they receive. For almost everyone, the game is difficult to resist: they end up trying to say the things that the machine will like. For all the panic over online censorship, this stuff is far more destructive. You have no free speech — not because someone might ban your account, but because there's a vast incentive structure in place that constantly channels your speech in certain directions. And unlike overt censorship, it's not a policy that could ever be changed, but a pure function of the connectivity of the internet itself. This might be why so much writing that comes out of the internet is so unbearably dull, cycling between outrage and mockery, begging for clicks, speaking the machine back into its own bowels....

The internet is not a communications system. Instead of delivering messages between people, it simulates the experience of being among people, in a way that books or shopping lists or even the telephone do not. And there are things that a simulation will always fail to capture. In the philosophy of Emmanuel Lévinas, your ethical responsibility to other people emerges out of their face, the experience of looking directly into the face of another living subject. "The face is what prohibits us from killing...." But Facebook is a world without faces. Only images of faces; selfies, avatars: dead things. Or the moving image in a FaceTime chat: a haunted puppet. There is always something in the way. You are not talking to a person: the machine is talking, through you, to itself.

As more and more of your social life takes place online, you're training yourself to believe that other people are not really people, and you have no duty towards them whatsoever. These effects don't vanish once you look away from the screen.... many of the big conflicts within institutions in the last few years seem to be rooted in the expectation that the world should work like the internet. If you don't like a person, you should be able to block them: simply push a button, and have them disappear forever.

The article revisits a 2011 meta-analysis that found massive declines in young people's capacity for empathy, which the authors directly associated with the spread of social media. But then Kriss argues that "We are becoming less and less capable of actual intersubjective communication; more unhappy; more alone. Every year, surveys find that people have fewer and fewer friends; among millennials, 22% say they have none at all.

"For the first time in history, we can simply do without each other entirely. The machine supplies an approximation of everything you need for a bare biological existence: strangers come to deliver your food; AI chatbots deliver cognitive-behavioral therapy; social media simulates people to love and people to hate; and hidden inside the microcircuitry, the demons swarm..."

So while recent books look for historical antecedents, "I still think that the internet is a serious break from what we had before," Kriss argues. "And as nice as Wikipedia is, as nice as it is to be able to walk around foreign cities on Google Maps or read early modern grimoires without a library card, I still think the internet is a poison."
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Is Social Media Training Us to Please a Machine?

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  • Twitter is a cesspit. FB, Insta, Snap, Tiktok, all of social media.

    Two edged sword, and all that.

    That's why the CCP censor the hell out it and use it to destabilise the West.

    • Is it the CCP? I donâ(TM)t see much from them. Usually pro Russian, anti liberal. But, I canâ(TM)t tell the difference between the Russian agitprop and the NewCorp alt-right agitprop. I think they had a board meeting and decided to carve up the world. Amicably.

    • Not a bad FP. Don't much like your conclusion, especially when you tilt it to China. I would say they are focused on defense from these problems and on stabilizing their own country, which may be fundamentally too big to be stable, but you jump to offensive uses, and I don't think the Chinese are even in the top three countries for cyber-offense. (As I thought about the list a bit more, I'm not sure China would even make my top 10...)

      However I was thinking more broadly about the topic recently from the fram

      • Are you serious ?

        The CCP is literally writing the book on internet/social media social control.

        How's your social credit score coming along ?

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          The CCP and the Russian propaganda department, until February never have lost an engagement they were called to handle.

          Had Putin not started his war, it would be almost 100% certain that Le Pen would have won France, and that other European countries would wind up with right-wing leadership. The US definitely would have leaned right in the polls, and by 2023, Biden would likely just be a target for impeachments for vague charges over and over again. When 2025 came around, between the Republican ability to

          • With this also damaged the CCP, had Putin not attacked after the Olympics, in less than three years, the CCP and Russia's propaganda department would literally have completely fragmented the West [...]

            Literally?

        • Literally? What's this book?

    • I am on a few groups on Facebook. They are great. One is of our town. The other one is a bunch of electronics hobbyists. We help each other out when stuff does not work, etc. I use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends who moved to other countries.
      I think there is an exaggerated anger towards social media. Their role in society is exaggerated in my personal opinion.
      We're just playing the blame game. Society is turning bitter. Instead of dealing with this, we externalise the cause to social media. I
      • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

        You're excluding everyone that respects privacy and realises that Facebook is a divisive shithole. Facebook has done so many things wrong from fuelling hate to refusing to stop showing ads for illegal plots of Brazilian rainforest. You should not support it with your membership and data.

        • This is kind of my point. "Facebook fuels the hate". The hate is already there. It also fuels my good connection with fellow electronics enthousiasts, my neighbors and old friends. But it is easier to project all bad things on facebook. Just burn em and everything will be fine again? Who's next?
          • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

            It would also be less bad if it weren't a walled garden, I never visit anything on it and it's bad because it's now exclusionary, you either put up with their privacy invasion or you're out. You're supporting that.

            • But... it isn't a walled garden. You can join it and not disclose sensitive info. Like you can do on any forum. Like this one. Quite frankly, this is just hate crystallizing on facebook. Who's next? Me?
              • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

                You can join it and not disclose sensitive info

                What, like your name and phone number and every conversation you ever have on their, every photo you ever upload etc? You statement makes no sense. This is nothing to do with 'crystallizing on facebook' This is about Facebook itself being complete scum lead by the master scumbag Zuckerberg who has literally called you a dumb f*** and you're proving it.

                • I did not have to enter my phonenumber when I registered for an account. Maybe this is a new requirement? Then everyone knows these days to be careful about what you post on facebook. Actually the towngroup surprises me in a positive way. People actually behave as if they speak in public.
                  I cannot counter your argument that I am a proven dumb f****. Although the only thing I did was highlight some nice positive things about facebook. Everything has some positive sides.
                  During the studies for one of my thre
                  • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

                    Gonna have to godwin this, h!tler no doubt did some nice things too, doeesm't mean his was a nice man though, that will still be true in ten years. No-one with a conscience should be using Facebook, by using it you are supporting the company and all of the constant nasty things they do.

                    Nestle chocolate is nice to eat but I don't eat it because Nestle keep pushing baby formula on mothers were the water is not safe for babies to drink, they die. So their chocolate may be nice but I know I can't buy it and be

                    • Sure. I am not pleading that facebook is saint. But all evil is projected on facebook these days. I.e. you are comparing facebook to Hitler. When Hitler dissapeared, society trived. In my opinion, remove facebook from the equation, and not much will change.
      • I am on a few groups on Facebook. They are great. One is of our town. The other one is a bunch of electronics hobbyists. We help each other out when stuff does not work, etc. I use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends who moved to other countries.

        I think there is an exaggerated anger towards social media. Their role in society is exaggerated in my personal opinion.

        While it is possible to use Facebook in a non-confrontational manner, I might note that you apparently just touch the surface of it.

        I was required to have a Facebook account because of work, so far so good. Then my family and old friends found me.

        The family are largely left wing, and I dare not post my opinion on anything. Unless I want attacked for it. I have a friend who is a grea

        • Hmmm, the facebook algorithm probably figured out I do not like heavy confrontational stuff. So my facebook experience is all rainbows and pony's. May explain all the soothing book quotes I get in my feed.
          • Hmmm, the facebook algorithm probably figured out I do not like heavy confrontational stuff. So my facebook experience is all rainbows and pony's. May explain all the soothing book quotes I get in my feed.

            That reminds me - I always wanted to hire Enya to sing me to sleep.

    • Shit, /. was doing this before the CCP even knew the Internet existed. Where do you think the term karma whoring came from?

      It's everywhere, it's in every online forum that has votes or likes and transcends politics and everything else. Would you post something that you know will get downvotes?

  • Kids are looking for their way. They have always copied each other, because the reinforcement has always been that is how you become part of a group and have sex. Or that is what they see. The machine may be the conduit, but it is no different from school or church or some other contrived organization.

    As far as empathy, kids are sociopaths. They develop, hopefully, awareness of others over time. But there is great need to succeed and find approval from peers. So a teen is not concerned that a teacher has a family to feed. All they know is of they can get the teacher fired they have a free grade. Now, if that teacher went to the student drive through window and got them fired, the student would file a lawsuit. They understand pain, but only in context of tyrmselvex.

    And there is nothing wrong with pleasing a marine. Many years ago I was trying workers to use computers to track quality rather than people. It was a challenge because people are much more flexible, so there was no discipline in the workers. But what we were doing required a higher quality product that required discipline.the same with teens now. We are training them to work with machines. And it is painful for the adults who never acquired that skill.

    But what I find most distressing is the extreme lack of scope often found in fake science. That kids have never had fewer friends. Yes, in a limited domain this may be true. But go back before adolescence was a thing. Before the phone. Before most lived in cities. Before education after 10 or 12. How many people who were not related to you did you know? Isnâ(TM)t that the whole point of those drudgery boring books that English teachers like. For the woman to find one non relative to marry.

    • "And there is nothing wrong with pleasing a marine. " This is the best typo I've seen in a while.
      • by Reziac ( 43301 ) *

        I found particularly pleasing the invention of new words:

        They understand pain, but only in context of tyrmselvex.

        This almost seems like one for the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows:

        tyrmselvex: a sense of self twisted by lack of realworld experience.

  • by denzacar ( 181829 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @05:54PM (#62555318) Journal

    I made it to about half before the nonsense become so overwhelming I had to stop reading further.
    Around this bit:

    "The face is what prohibits us from killing...." But Facebook is a world without faces. Only images of faces; selfies, avatars: dead things. Or the moving image in a FaceTime chat: a haunted puppet. There is always something in the way. You are not talking to a person: the machine is talking, through you, to itself.

    Congratulations. That was the dumbest shit I read/heard/saw in a long while.
    Including news about a Texas judge arrested the other day for stealing cattle and a story about a local politician, his grandfather and his grandfather's horse (there's no story - that's the story... let's talk about THAT in an election year).

  • I took a look... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sajavete ( 5054387 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @05:59PM (#62555322)
    ... at this Damage magazine, and it sure looks like anarchist propaganda. As any good propaganda, they're not "exactly wrong", but the overall image made my pure-evil-sense (trained on household favourites like Jones, Trump, Putin and my local nazi party, these past decade and a half) tingle up to around 80%.

    What's next, David, quoting RT?
    • by Valgrus Thunderaxe ( 8769977 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:51PM (#62555400)
      I checked out that site and all the articles seem like they're machine generated.
      • Which might mean the machine not only became self-aware, but began to experience remorse at what it's doing to humanity.

        • If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it could just be a simulaton of duck. Humans can also simulate remorse, don't read into it too much.

          --
          Did you mean "for all intents and purposes"? :P
      • Haha, you might be right. Got me :)
    • for a moment lets assume that people have fewer real friends and more virtual ones, well should this also lead to people being less prone to follow some politician in real life and do most of their fighting in VR? If so, we are finally beginning to solve the problem or wars, governments start wars and people follow blindly because of this collective feeling 'of something greater'... If people can finally get rid of this stupid idea, that there is 'something greater' than themselves, nobody would follow a

  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:12PM (#62555342)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        Google is not evil. They just want to help everyone.
        MicroSoft Windows NT 4.0 is the most secure operating system on the planet.
        The Intarweb is the new "Town Square" and must be regulated acco . . .

        Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • He's one of the main characters in "The Manchurian Candidate". Funnily enough, I was reading the article [wikipedia.org] a couple of days ago.

            If you skip across to the article about the original novel, there's a link to this story [sfgate.com]. Almost unbelievably, parts of this Cold War thriller were plagiarized from "I, Claudius"

      • by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
        Google is neither good oir evil, ts just a corporation ( a bingone but that us neither here nor there) , an like any such entity it's main golal is to maximice orifits so it's investirs get rich, or richer
  • So while the brutishness of anonymity online has been labored over, it seems the herd mentality of being verified (and the outgrowth of that being influencer culture) is coming home to roost.

    It always struck me as strange that mass media will condemn the fringe as outposts for for radicalization and whatnot while displaying a peculiar blindness to their own.

  • Your opinion is irrelevant. Its value is its ability to attract people's attention and provide clickbait for advertisers. The idea that anything on the internet ISN'T propaganda is ludicrous.
  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @07:00PM (#62555420) Homepage

    Every time we come up with new media, people talk about how it will destroy the world. Books would destroy the government. Newspapers would destroy the government. Radio will ... TV will destroy ... The internet will...

    People are not ants. We are smarter than the machines. As a group, we are smarter than the people that made the machines.

    • They were used to start the War of 1812. I'm not saying that New Media is inherently bad but we should be painfully aware of what the effects of it can be.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      As a group, we are smarter than the people that made the machines.

      I very much do not think so. As groups, people are utterly dumb. That said, as individuals a lot of people are actually pretty smart and decent. But put them in groups and even basically decent people get caught in fatal dynamics.

    • Humanity, as well as other forms of life, has always been enslaved to its tools. Originally these tools were grown, like teeth or claws or eyes or noses, but humans developed the faculty of devising somewhat more tool variety such as hammers and pottery and frying pans and spaceships so we behave accordingly. Money has killed far more people and other forms of life than nuclear weapons but it is early days there and the delights of murdering each other are more tempting than opium. The internet and the rest
  • There is only one solution: Get off it.
  • One caveat, if you think you are not manipulated you are probably manipulated more than the average.

    But, Iâ(TM)m different, Iâ(TM)m not stuck in the internet with social media, social media is stuck in here with me!!!!

  • To the Netflix show Love, Death, and Robots

  • No one knows how to please a machine more than a machine....

    Am I right....? Fellas?
    Ladies?

    Singularity Pulsating Orb Thing?

  • by fabioalcor ( 1663783 ) on Saturday May 21, 2022 @07:56PM (#62555480)

    The difference between medicine and poison is in the dose.

  • To fly in the face of Betteridge's Law: Yes of course, but you say this as if it is something new.

    We've always couched our language to be comfortable when heard by the people who have power over us, and for as long as we've had literacy we've learned to be circumspect with what we write, else those with power will punish us. "Social media" is just what's new and strange to you, so when you become aware of how the world works you accuse the thing you don't fully understand as being the perverse element t

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Yes, pretty much. Also, decreased empathy (or none) towards people not in ones in-group is also a very, very old thing and nothing new even in children. The only difference now is that far more people create easily observable statements (such as I am doing now), when that historically was only done by small groups of people. Hence the problem is very old, and social media only made it a lot more visible.

      I do not really agree on the "hand gripping a tools" idea as to the root cause, I think the real problem

  • and masters
  • I can't even begin to count the number of times I've stood with my soapy hands in a sink, trying to wave my hands in just the right way to gain the automated faucet's approval...

  • The answer to the headline in this case is "yes". It's not a secret that your Instagram and TikTok posts are being processed by an algorithm. Artists on Instagram used to discuss amongst themselves how to game the algorithm to get promoted... while the "rules" are not published, empirically, certain patterns for success emerged, like, you have to have a lot of head shots and the more you spill about your pathetic personal life, the more followers you were alloted.
  • I got to see Kurt Vonnegut speak in the 1990s, in what he said was his standard speech ("It's the same old crap."). He said he's often asked what he thought about computers in schools. He said he would reply "It's imperative that we have computers in schools. How else will the children learn what it is that the computers want them to do?"
  • I've asked it before and I'll ask it again...

    How is the "metaverse" that Zuckerfucker & Co. are creating any different than the Matrix in the movie of the same name?

    Facebook wants the world to plug in, live in the fantasy world they create, and never leave. The only difference between that and the movie is that the social media sociopaths do it to fuel their greed, while their movie counterparts did it to create energy.

    Do you have to wait until you hear them refering to non-techies as "crops" b
  • A tool is a tool, as a small child I used my dad's brand new sidecutting pliers to cut a lamp cord. Plugged in of course, damaged the pliers . As I got older dad taught me how to use tools properly, a valuable skillset then and now. A hammer can drive a nail or kill something, the difference is judgment, taught from the parent. Who is teaching the young ones now?
  • Well, I think the Internet is just a source of information, and I think that everyone should consider it that way and nothing more. Of course, it's possible to find info about everything in the books, but I can tell you that it took me some time to find https://www.kasamba.com/tarot-reading/decks/minor-arcana/two-of-swords-card [kasamba.com] even online, so I can say that the Internet is definitely beneficial for humans.
  • Well, I can say that I have never considered the Internet as something very bad, and this is exactly what on the contrary does only good things for me. Yes, we are the ones through whom the Internet speaks and we learn a lot of important and useful things here. For example, I recently found out where you can buy good bongs [everythingfor420.com] and if it wasn't for the Internet, I think I would have had to deal with low-quality options for a long time. Something like that.

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