'Quantum Internet' Inches Closer With Advance in Data Teleportation 78
From Santa Barbara, Calif., to Hefei, China, scientists are developing a new kind of computer that will make today's machines look like toys. From a report: Harnessing the mysterious powers of quantum mechanics, the technology will perform tasks in minutes that even supercomputers could not complete in thousands of years. In the fall of 2019, Google unveiled an experimental quantum computer showing this was possible. Two years later, a lab in China did much the same. But quantum computing will not reach its potential without help from another technological breakthrough. Call it a "quantum internet" -- a computer network that can send quantum information between distant machines. At the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands, a team of physicists has taken a significant step toward this computer network of the future, using a technique called quantum teleportation to send data across three physical locations. Previously, this was possible with only two.
The new experiment indicates that scientists can stretch a quantum network across an increasingly large number of sites. "We are now building small quantum networks in the lab," said Ronald Hanson, the Delft physicist who oversees the team. "But the idea is to eventually build a quantum internet." Their research, unveiled this week with a paper published in the science journal Nature, demonstrates the power of a phenomenon that Albert Einstein once deemed impossible. Quantum teleportation -- what he called "spooky action at a distance" -- can transfer information between locations without actually moving the physical matter that holds it. This technology could profoundly change the way data travels from place to place. It draws on more than a century of research involving quantum mechanics, a field of physics that governs the subatomic realm and behaves unlike anything we experience in our everyday lives. Quantum teleportation not only moves data between quantum computers, but it also does so in such a way that no one can intercept it.
The new experiment indicates that scientists can stretch a quantum network across an increasingly large number of sites. "We are now building small quantum networks in the lab," said Ronald Hanson, the Delft physicist who oversees the team. "But the idea is to eventually build a quantum internet." Their research, unveiled this week with a paper published in the science journal Nature, demonstrates the power of a phenomenon that Albert Einstein once deemed impossible. Quantum teleportation -- what he called "spooky action at a distance" -- can transfer information between locations without actually moving the physical matter that holds it. This technology could profoundly change the way data travels from place to place. It draws on more than a century of research involving quantum mechanics, a field of physics that governs the subatomic realm and behaves unlike anything we experience in our everyday lives. Quantum teleportation not only moves data between quantum computers, but it also does so in such a way that no one can intercept it.
Inches? (Score:2)
Re: Inches? (Score:1)
Oh no! (Score:3)
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You have to be in superpostion to learn it.
Re:Oh no! (Score:4, Funny)
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Personally, I find IPv6 is much easier to use that IPv4.
On the programming side, look at the amount of code in the Linux kernel allocated to IPv4 vs IPv6. There is something like a 4x difference where IPv6 is much smaller. There's a reason for that.
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IPv4 was not that difficult to master. IPv6 a nightmare. The version for quantum networks is going to impossible to learn!
It's going to be impossible to implement as well. Quantum bandwidth decreases exponentially with path length.
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It will probably mostly be used for key exchange, so bandwidth isn't a big issue. People worried that public key exchange mechanisms might be crackable now or in the future are looking at this.
The other low bandwidth use is sending short text messages. Since interception is impossible the enemy cannot gain any intel from traffic analysis. You could just saturate a normal link but that's not always possible.
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It will probably mostly be used for key exchange, so bandwidth isn't a big issue. People worried that public key exchange mechanisms might be crackable now or in the future are looking at this.
The other low bandwidth use is sending short text messages. Since interception is impossible the enemy cannot gain any intel from traffic analysis. You could just saturate a normal link but that's not always possible.
What is the basis of these remarks? TFA is about networking quantum computers together. Quoting from the nature paper referenced by TFA:
"Future quantum internet applications will derive their power from the ability to share quantum information across the network. Quantum teleportation allows for the reliable transfer of quantum information between distant nodes, even in the presence of highly lossy network connections"
Paper does not mention QKD, security or cryptography at all.
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Don't worry. After all the scammers pushing this have gotten rich, the products promised will fail to materialize.
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You must have missed the summary. This is an article about quantum mechanics, not blockchain.
I mean exactly what I say. There is a lot of scammers in (applied) quantum mechanics these days. Sure, they are not as blatantly obvious as the crypto-"currency" assholes and they are mostly after sales of some basically worthless machines or research grants, but there are similarities in the types of promises made.
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Well, stricly speaking, these baseless promises generally
come from "science jounalists" like the clown that wrote
this NYT article, someone who clearly knows nothing about
QM.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Quantum Entanglement? (Score:4, Informative)
entanglement is the property that makes quantum teleportation (which isn't actually teleportation in any real sense) work.
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What? No. Quantum teleportation is the ability for waveforms to extend though potential barriers so when it collapses there's a chance the particle ends up in a classically imposable place. Entanglement is a rather different issue dealing with a pair(or more) of particles with an interdependent property.
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never mind, I was thinking of "tunneling'
need more coffee
The new fusion? (Score:2)
Sounds more like quantum entanglement, rather than quantum Internet.
Nets get entangled, so there.
It seems to me quantum computing and its allied fields are the new fusion. The demos already "work", but the practical application is always N years in the future.
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Sounds more like quantum entanglement, rather than quantum Internet.
Nets get entangled, so there.
It seems to me quantum computing and its allied fields are the new fusion. The demos already "work", but the practical application is always N years in the future.
Wake me up when they have Quantum web3 working!
I have some NFTs I need to entangle in the quanum metaverse.
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He didn't say Cold Fusion. He said Fusion. Don't confuse the two.
Fusion we've been able to do since the 1950s. Most spectaularly in the form of the Hydrogen Bomb.
Where the problem lies in , is using that Fusion for energy creation, because so far the spectrum seems to be "Explode everything at once ultradeath fusion", and "its fusion but its so weak it costs more energy to get that reaction than we get out of it". Where the breakthrough happens is when we can get more out than we put in. We solve that, and
learn how quantum computing works (Score:4, Interesting)
whenever /. has articles about this, people invariably want to know more about how this stuff works. here's a book that covers the fundamentals using trig and matrix algebra, to explain how quantum particles behave, what entanglement is, the experiments and math that "proved" and led to it being the accepted model, what quantum gates are, the math of those gates (not so much how they're physically built although how entangled particles are produced is briefly covered) and what kinds of problems quantum computing solves and why
very good clearly written book, easy enough for those who're comfortable with the not-super-crazy math involved
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum... [amazon.com]
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it's written by Chris Bernhardt, a professor emeritus of mathematics at Fairfield University and published by the MIT press
it's an excellent book, your loss
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There is 0 reason math should be required or even helpful in understanding basic concepts
(generally speaking) there isn't. But I want to know the math and other people do to. It's one thing to learn and understand the conceptual model, it's another to follow the (relatively light) math that proves the model is accurate.
Also have no reason to believe an Ivory tower mathematician is even capable of writing an understandable book even if they wanted to
Well now I have no reason to believe you're not a sad sack
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the book does detail a simplified physical description of how spin is detected, and entanglement can be produced - from what I recall - by shooting photons through a material which causes them to split. Although not all particle pairs come out entangled, so you have to validate their entanglement after the fact. I think the physical devices to do all this stuff are still very esoteric. I see papers where the logic being demonstrated is written in terms of quantum gates, but I don't think the notion of a "ge
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And this is an excellent free introduction:
https://quantum.country/ [quantum.country]
It goes well with writing your own quantum circuit simulator in Python (27 lines):
https://barghouthi.github.io/2... [github.io]
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Too many big words, try this [amazon.com].
There's money in it (Score:3)
If there is even a 1% chance of them getting this to work over significant distances and it delivers light-speed lateness, there will be plenty of money up by those that have it.
Flash traders spent several hundred million laying down their own fiber between Chicago and NY just to get an improvement measured in nanoseconds. They will be all over this if they think it will work.
And the military ....
Then comes (Score:2)
Quantum spam, Quantum bot nets, Quantum hacks and DDoS, and my Quantum word processor still takes a fucking long time to load because of all the Quantum bloat.
Quantum interception (Score:4, Informative)
"Quantum teleportation not only moves data between quantum computers, but it also does so in such a way that no one can intercept it."
I wish people would stop saying this. The correct statement is, quantum teleportation is a means of moving data such that if anybody intercepts it, they will necessarily add a calculatable amount of noise to the signal.
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"Quantum teleportation not only moves data between quantum computers, but it also does so in such a way that no one can intercept it."
I wish people would stop saying this. The correct statement is, quantum teleportation is a means of moving data such that if anybody intercepts it, they will necessarily add a calculatable amount of noise to the signal.
That would be quantum transfer, often misnamed "quantum encryption". Which incidentally was broken so far in all practical implementations. Actual teleportation either moves no data or we will have to throw out most of Quantum Theory.
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Quantum teleportation is sending a quantum state somewhere else. You do that by entangling two quantum systems and sending the second one to the somewhere else. Transporting the system is slower than c, and interpreting any kind of communication requires classical data transmitted slower than c. You can certainly transfer information that way though, just not instantly.
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Yep. It is also completely useless because you are not transporting information in the quantum part. You basically transport a coin you flipped before without looking at it (and keeping a copy behind) and then eventually, after transportation you look at what it is. That cannot be used for data transfer at all. It _can_ be used to generate a shared secret, but that does not mean data-transfer because you do not control what that secret is. For some crypto applications that is enough though. Bit the bottom l
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Yep. It is also completely useless because you are not transporting information in the quantum part.
It's more complicated than that, but the end result you describe is correct: to send information on a quantum entangled link, you have to send classical information in order to read it. So the process cannot happen faster than you can transfer classical information.
You basically transport a coin you flipped before without looking at it (and keeping a copy behind) and then eventually, after transportation you look at what it is.
You are describing a hidden variable system (the flipped coin DOES have a value, even if you haven't looked at it.) It's easy envision a quantum state as a real state that you just haven't looked at, but it is not. Quantum systems have a quantum
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I'm not sure how to correct you, because I'm not sure what, if anything, you know about quantum mechanics.
Of course you can choose what to send. If you were just sending "noise", you wouldn't have to send anything. But, again, this is better described as quantum key information transfer, because to send data on a quantum connection requires sending data on a classical link to allow you to read it. The data is in the form of "how does the measurement of a quantum state here correlate with the measurement of
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It really is very simple:
1. Below or max at c: You can transfer data with quantum states. But it is completely meaningless because you can also do it much, much easier conventionally.
2. Above c: You cannot transfer data.
As an easy conclusion from that is that quantum states have no reasonable application in data transfer.
You quantum-fans are almost as bad as the crypto-"currency" assholes at obfuscating what is actually going on.
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Oh and one more thing, because you apparently are not a cryptography expert: Keys are _not_ data (or more precisely, they must not be used as data). If keys are used as data, they become useless as keys. Keys are a restricted class of information that may not be used as decision information except as keys in ciphers. Key also may not be generated in a form that carries data or, again, they stop bein keys.
Hence, no, generating shared keys is generating shared keys and _not_ generating shared data. Yes, I do
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I'm not sure what point, if any, it is on which you think we disagree here.
Any quantum communications system relies on a classical data transfer.
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Keys are _not_ data (or more precisely, they must not be used as data). If keys are used as data, they become useless as keys.
So if I save my keys in data files they become useless as keys? Are there special key files I should be storing them in instead? Computer science is hard!
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discuss
OK. The wikipedia article you link says in more complicated wording what I already posted here. Twice.
to send information on a quantum entangled link, you have to send classical information in order to read it. So the process cannot happen faster than you can transfer classical information.
(The Wikipedia article phrases it by saying you can't send information by measurements of an (entangled) quantum state. Right; you have to send classical information to do so.)
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In physics, the no-communication theorem or no-signaling principle is a no-go theorem from quantum information theory which states that, during measurement of an entangled quantum state, it is not possible for one observer, by making a measurement of a subsystem of the total state, to communicate information to another observer.
ive quoted it cos you had trouble finding it. im sure if you used another method, you could choose what to send, but were not talking about another method.
Apparently you didn't read to the very next paragraph, which stated: "In regards to communication a quantum channel can always be used to transfer classical information by means of shared quantum states."
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Indeed. "Noise teleportation" is a good way to describe it. Calling it "data teleportation" is a lie by misdirection.
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The quantum part of quantum key encryption does not add "nothing" because the eavesdropper can't read the quantum key without destroying the quantum state.
Either the eavesdropper can read it, OR the recipient can read it, but if the eavesdropper reads it, it is destroyed
Both parties end up destroying it when they read so makes no difference.
and the eavesdropper can't simply write it back, because they didn't get the full complex state, they got only the real or the imaginary part, but not both.
Using quantum channels alone is like uncrackable ADH nothing prevents an eavesdropper from terminating the communication and performing a separate key transfer with the intended peer.
The only real world benefit of QKD is better forward secrecy. If your guarded secrets or cryptography are compromised in advance QKD is effectively a paper weight.
Re: Quantum interception (Score:2)
Yep, I'm not an expert on quantum physics by any means, but every explanation of quantum entanglement I've seen says that once two particles are entangled, if you measure one, both particles' wave function collapse in the same way, and both end up in the same state. And you cannot choose that state.
And every click bait article I've seen promising quantum data transfer had no explanation of how that would work.
The only possible idea i can think of is that both sides have a collection of entangled particles,
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Quantum teleportation transmits a quantum state. That state can be a pure state, or it can be a superposition.
The state (|00> + |11>) / sqrt(2) is a pair of entangled qubits that, when measured, will be identical, both either 0 or both 1, with an equal probability. Call these qubits, T1 and T2. I send you T2 and I keep T1. Note that there's nothing special about these. They're entangled in a superposition, but they're in a known, very generic state.
Now I have a qubit I want to transmit, call it S. S i
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The whole thing is people that mistake themselves for experts misinterpreting what is going on to make things seem more bombastic than they are. There is no data-transfer faster than c or most modern physics goes out the window. A quantum state is not "data". This "teleportation" stuff has no engineering applications.
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Quantum teleportation transmits data: a quantum state. You transport an entangled qubit and (at least) two bits of classical information, which is used to reconstruct the quantum state.
Your understanding seems to be limited to pop sci hand wavy analogies. These are stupid.
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Nope. A quantum state is not data.
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Well, if you say so, I guess it must be true!
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The burden of proof is on you, because you claimed it is. You have failed to deliver that proof. The reason is that you cannot.
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Not sure what you mean. I fully stipulate that by whatever definition is in your head you are correct.
Just remember this (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.aliroquantum.com/b... [aliroquantum.com]
Does quantum entanglement violate the speed of light?
No. While quantum entanglement can cause particles to collapse instantaneously over long distances, we can't use that to transport information faster than the speed of light. It turns out entanglement alone is not enough to send data. For example, quantum teleportation uses entanglement to transfer quantum states across long distances. However, teleportation requires sending a classical bit in addition to the entangled qubits. So, while the entanglement operates instantaneously, the information transfer is limited by the speed of the classical information, which travels at the speed of light.
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I recommend Dr. Matt Dowd's PBS Space Time on Youtube. He does an excellent, almost Sagan-like breakdown of the science in a way that a precocious layperson can understand it.
There's also a video (Minutephysics?) that shows how the expanded e=mc2 can be represented as a right-triangle, showing how the absolutes of pure matter and pure energy are extremes and relate.
But the short-short version is that the speed of light is the speed-limit for information flow. The photon that we see as light is simply info
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No matter how much I've looked at it, relativity never gets less strange. I can do the math but it doesn't make any sense to me.
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Bah, details! Who looks at details when you can have grande, unfounded visions!
Re:Just remember this (Score:4, Interesting)
The point is not to communicate really fast. Quantum teleportation is how you move a quantum state from one place to another. It's sort of like shifting a value from memory to a register, or from register to register, in a classical computer. Kind of handy. It's also (probably) required to build optical quantum computers because photons don't interact with each other, but you can play some neat tricks with teleportation to get around that problem.
People who spend their time thinking about reading other people's mail have also noticed that if you transport a quantum state to someone else, but someone tampers with it enroute, that tampering is detectable.
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Hahahaha, no. (Score:2)
Progress over an infinite distance is not progress. It just appears to be. A "Quantum Internet" makes zero sense and would, in most regards, be a step backwards. If it worked, that is. It basically would be "doing it the hard way" all through without any benefit. Oh, and the "QCs" that exist today have less actual computing power than a 40 year old pocket calculator. It is also completely unclear whether they even can scale or do long computations. Any predictions are just imagination running wild, not fact
Is this the black and white marble in a box again? (Score:2)
The Theranos of Quantum Computing? (Score:2)
Where can I invest?
Old news (Score:2)
Re: Old news (Score:1)
Re: Old news (Score:1)
Wong in so many ways (Score:5, Informative)
Reading that summary was painful. The author says so many things that are confused, confusing, or just wrong. They're reporting on a subject they don't understand and botching it.
Quantum teleportation -- what he called "spooky action at a distance"
No he didn't. That quote is about entanglement, which is not the same as teleportation.
can transfer information between locations without actually moving the physical matter that holds it.
Just like all modern forms of communication. When you send a file over the internet, you transfer information without transferring the physical matter that holds it.
This technology could profoundly change the way data travels from place to place.
That's an absurd statement that has nothing to do with the technology.
Quantum teleportation not only moves data between quantum computers, but it also does so in such a way that no one can intercept it.
False. What it actually does is guarantee that if someone intercepts it, you'll be able to detect that they did. But there's a huge asterisk attached: it requires a direct connection where one party receives the exact physical signal the other party sent. That's not how the internet works. You don't have a separate wire connecting you to every server in the world. Information gets sent to one computer, then forwarded to another, and so on until it eventually reaches you. As soon as you add an intermediate node, the guarantees from quantum communication disappear. That means it's only useful in very special cases.
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