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Tim Sweeney Casts Doubt on Metaverse's Use for Work, Saying Stripping Entertainment Aspect Leaves You With 'Super Creepy Version of AOL Chat Rooms' (ft.com) 81

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
In an interview with the FT, Epic chief executive Tim Sweeney spoke about the metaverse and expressed his concerns that tech giants Apple and Google could "unfairly" extend their "stranglehold" on smartphone platforms to "dominate all physical commerce taking place in virtual and augmented reality." An excerpt from the report: FT: How convinced are you that the metaverse -- this immersive virtual world -- really is the next digital platform beyond the smartphone?

Tim Sweeney: It's happening already. If you look at Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft and other real-time 3D social entertainment experiences, you can readily identify at least 600mn monthly active users in a medium that's growing at a significant rate every year. So, there's no question that this phenomenon is happening. The only question is: when does it reach billions?

FT: When I think of the metaverse, it's much broader than gaming. It's doing work in the metaverse, and meeting your colleagues in there. What are the challenges of bringing that vision into existence?

Tim Sweeney: I'm not sure if that vision actually works, because it's not very fun to sit around in 3D and just talk to people. It gets really awkward really fast. A bunch of guys can't get together and just sit in a room for hours and have a conversation, right? You have to be shooting darts or playing billiards or shooting hoops or doing something together to break up the dull moments and keep you entertained for a long period of time. And that's what this medium does. I think if you strip the entertainment aspect from it, you end up with a super creepy version of America Online chat rooms!
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Tim Sweeney Casts Doubt on Metaverse's Use for Work, Saying Stripping Entertainment Aspect Leaves You With 'Super Creepy Version More

Tim Sweeney Casts Doubt on Metaverse's Use for Work, Saying Stripping Entertainment Aspect Leaves You With 'Super Creepy Version

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  • When exactly did games become "real-time 3D social entertainment experiences"?
    I've been out of the loop for a while, but that seems like quite the mouthful.

    • Re:Nomenclature (Score:4, Interesting)

      by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:13PM (#62568042)
      When Minecraft and Fortnite were released.
      Its my understanding that the kids used them more as a social platform than a gaming one.

      • I couldn't speak about fortnite but I can say that there's more play than conversation on any minecraft servers I've been on. Plenty of both though.

        Lots of games have been very social as long as games have been multiplayer though. MU*s are probably the best example, but lots of people do lots of social engagement stuff on MMOs of all kinds for sure. And even in FPS chat rooms there's plenty of jibber jabber. I remember playing tacops the dead would often chitchat.

        • Private Minecraft servers are an entirely different animal though. We have a family server for me, my kids, and my grandkids to play on. Even my wife logs in to do things with our grandkids that live nearly 1k miles from us. We get far more time with them this way than we would otherwise.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Joviex ( 976416 )

        When Minecraft and Fortnite were released. Its my understanding that the kids used them more as a social platform than a gaming one.

        Not as insightful as you think. Games have always been a social distraction for society, not just "vida" games.

        • Yes, but with those 2, from what I have overheard, kids are "playing" those to meet up with friends since most avenues are either blocked or unhip.
          Yes video games have had a social component to them since the start, but these 2 started a trend.
          • A trend? of what? I had a trend in school to go outside and play football and basketball with my social circle. Were we just "not with it"?

            Have you ever touched grass? I LITERALLY SAID NOT JUST VIDA GAMES.

            Those two "games" did nothing to add to the already existing social game space we ALREADY HAD.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Kremmy ( 793693 )
            They really weren't so ... innovative?
            We've had bigger name games that fill the niche since the early 90s at the latest. Even some of the old BBS Door Games hit the notes.
            You didn't even mention Roblox even though it's as high profile as either of those two at this point, and allows the kids to create their own gamelets.
            All three of them are about five to ten years old in a niche going back 30 years.

      • When Minecraft and Fortnite were released.

        Its my understanding that the kids used them more as a social platform than a gaming one.

        I think it is just that more that these games are inherently social

    • Stuffy business execs still trying to get their heads around something that's been happening since Quake 1.

      • Even before then, the moment games became multiplayer the became social, like sport. If you mean on a computer I remember lots of people playing some multiplayer text d&d game an university. What about world of warcraft? Owning virtual property and the accountants dream of selling it, is what I believe the metaverse is really about, personally I am out, but I am done underestimating the stupidity of some people.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Clearly we are about to enter Star Trek's post-scarcity society because the suits are desperately trying to come up with new and innovative ways to create the artificial kind.

    • Re:Nomenclature (Score:5, Interesting)

      by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:47PM (#62568136) Homepage Journal

      The word salad occurred when MBA's smelled money in the industry. Everyone with money wants to be part of the next big thing. And professional con-artists are more than willing to sell them the dream. I'd normally be happy about all of this, but what happens with publicly traded companies is that my Dad's retirement fund gets tied up into a mutual fund and sunk into this trash.

      • Then the people who do it get massive payouts and take the blame for the people who ordered it done, who never so much as show up on the tenth page of newspapers or search results.

        • Back when I used to do a lot of work for startups I kept meeting these guys who were rich with a string of failed startups. When I walk away from a failed startup all I have is my savings to go do the next thing. Other people are selling shares as investor money comes rolling in, regardless of the success of the business at the end. It was one of the aspects that really turned me off to the startup culture.

    • Re:Nomenclature (Score:4, Informative)

      by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:48PM (#62568146)

      When people started getting married after meeting in Ultima Online.

      • Exactly. This is nothing new. Fortnite is just the latest online phenomenon, so it naturally fosters a lot of social interaction.

        I've worked on large-scale MMOs before, so I've been on the inside of the whole "we're building a social community, not just game" thing. The company would even hire people whose sole job is to interact with the online community as an official company representative. Videogame companies have understood this for a very long time. You first need the "killer app" (a fun game) to

        • > I still think we haven't yet found VR's killer app (at least for the masses)

          Gaming is VR's killer app. It's a great technology for games. That's probably 90% of what VR headsets get used for right now. It's not clear whether it's a great technology for much else. When Meta pushes it for socializing and Microsoft pushes it for business and Apple imagines people walking down the street wearing AR headsets that display a picture of their eyes on the front... Well, I'm skeptical. I think we're still

          • The killer app would be mapping as much of the real world as possible into VR. Then you put on your headset and you can be visiting places you will likely never have the time or money to see.

            Sure, VR won't be the same but it could be quite awesome all the same. You could also use it as a awesome planning tool for your upcoming vacation. I like to think of it as google maps but full 3d of the world, seamless experience.

            That's the killer app. Then, hook killer app like this up to a cycling platform with a pow

    • I've been out of the loop for a while, but that seems like quite the mouthful.

      Not sure when it started but I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] Travis Scott hosting a concert inside Fortnite sure sound like it counts. Or if that doesn't do it for you maybe Marshmello? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] or Ariana Grande? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      But even before they started to use the platform for actual entertainment events we could break down the sentence:
      - real-time - Yeah sure a multiplayer computer game is real-time
      - 3D - Yep most a 3D too
      - Social - indeed ever since

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      Well, massively multiplayer online role playing game is also kind of a mouthful.

  • Dam, virtual Strippers! I take it back, maybe the Metaverse might be good for something! "You have to be shooting darts or playing billiards or shooting hoops or doing something together to break up the dull moments and keep you entertained" lol ;)

  • Sweeney (Score:3)

    by necro81 ( 917438 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:22PM (#62568076) Journal
    I don't know what neurons are criss-crossed in my brain, but every time I see an article about Tim Sweeney, I immediately picture Sweeney Todd [google.com]. The mental image does make the article more entertaining.

    (Sorry for dragging Johnny Depp into this. I've only ever seen the movie, not the Sondheim musical, nor read any of the source texts that go way back [ref [wikipedia.org]].)

  • For a business you take the disadvantages of working with the office, then you combine it with the disadvantages of using MS Teams, WebEx or Zoom.

    You get an avatar which will block most of your non-verbal communication, but put in a virtual environment which you cannot separate yourself, like say put yourself on must and video off, while you do other work while just keeping an ear open for anything important to you in that meeting.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      Most useful technology started out as games. Games have the advantage that there are fewer consequences when the technology fails. For instance, early wheels were seen in medoamerica on toys but not in use.

      Three things have to happen for wide use. The tech has to be reliable. The tech has to be affordable, meaning competitive with other tech. And someone has to come up with what we now call the killer app. The competitive is surprisingly confounding. For instance the vending machine has varied uses in dif

    • I am not a fan of video conferencing for business let alone VR. Unless there is a need for creative brainstorming elements, voice conferencing is the most productive, least distracting and least intrusive method.

      eh, if ideas are being tossed around, or a creative process is part of the plan, then doc sharing or a virtual whiteboard are sufficient for 99 percent of what I have experienced.

      VR for business is classic tech solution looking for a problem to solve.

      my 2 cents. Then again, I am rather old.

  • We need better technology first (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Wycliffe ( 116160 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:37PM (#62568106) Homepage

    The technology is not there yet for a true metaverse. Oculus has a Netflix app. How many people are watching full length movies using an Oculus? This should basically be the MVP for a metaverse. Being able to watch a movie with a better experience than a large screen 4k TV in your home. But we are no where close. Video games like first person shooters (or porn) have not even moved over to the metaverse. Again, basic things that should be natural once the technology has matured.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Draeven ( 166561 )

      You seem to be mistaking "It's not something everyone does" with "It's not something anyone does."

      If you listed worlds by popularity in VR Chat, You'll see movie theaters (with actual streamable movies) at the top of that list.

      Just last week, I strapped a Valve Index to my face and watched a Spiderman movie.

      No one who hasn't already been a part of this from the start knows what "metaverse" even means.

      Sweeney here is right about one thing: The so-called metaverse isn't for business, it's for entertainment.

  • to watch so put that in a little PIP while (who's) zooming (who) and call 'er done.

  • It's not good for work because it isn't really useful.

    Remember Disclosure [imdb.com]? A major plot device is some kind of metaverse thing for the office, where you walk around as a goofy avatar, access virtual file cabinets (!?!), etc.

    (Or they had a prototype of it, anyway, ostensibly for the plot point of they forgot to build in access controls yet, but also in my opinion because it would have been too stupid to spend much of the movie showing it.)

    I remember at the time thinking how stupid that was. It has all the drawbacks of meatspace with none of the advantages. While giving up the advantages of doing stuff digitally.

  • And that’s what this medium does. I think if you strip the entertainment aspect from it, you end up with a super creepy version of America Online chat rooms!

    no shit, TIM! That is the entire purpose of games, social distraction -- your own FORTNITE is a vapid wasteland of value if you remove the "entertainment aspect from it", moron.

    • Fuck, you don't even need to remove the "entertainment aspect from it" for it to be a vapid wasteland.
    • Why are you shrieking "MORON" at somebody who's simply stating the same opinion you hold?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Joviex ( 976416 )

        Why are you shrieking "MORON" at somebody who's simply stating the same opinion you hold?

        You think Tim Sweeny is here, reading the threads?

        Do you understand the words sarcasm and satire?

        With your six digit number you would think you would understand what /. is.

        Did you respond because you heard me calling for MORONS?

  • MS (Score:2)

    by bhcompy ( 1877290 )
    If I were to rank probability of success in the business world, I'd take the Hololens mixed reality concept over full VR. It just doesn't make sense to have full VR.

    And even then I don't rank either as likely to succeed at a significant level. The Hololens concept is good for augmenting centralized meetings, not to replace one on one meetings that are the bulk of everyone's work(and heavily leverage screen sharing).

  • I once helped someone who was forward deployed in an undisclosed location troubleshoot an oracle database using AIM.

    The more things change... the more they stay the same.

  • Has he ever actually been to a place of work? People aren't there for the entertainment, and yet they find things to occupy themselves with, I think this distraction is called "work".

  • The source of the name Metaverse is Stephenson's book Snow Crash. I could ramble on about that all day (obviously) but the relevant point to make here is that the Metaverse only took off because of some of the protagonists' facial expression software, which made avatars lifelike in the way that matters most — to our brains.

    Social interaction in "the metaverse" has to be approximately as natural as it is in the real world (What one might snarkily refer to as the "meatverse" in this context) so that our

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, yes. But will it be enough? I recently found out what level of effort goes into vtubing, and if we need something like that this is not happening anytime soon.

  • I would never use it unless forced to (Score:3)

    by cjonslashdot ( 904508 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @02:32PM (#62568476)
    Sorry Mark Zuckerberg, but I will never put a VR headset on. I would not cover up my eyes and shut out the real world. Looking at a screen is fine for conversation - I don't need VR. Besides, 3D displays are coming: https://www.lightfieldlab.com/ [lightfieldlab.com]

  • "A bunch of guys can't get together and just sit in a room for hours and have a conversation, right?"

    Way to drop all of philosophy, poetry, and in-depth conversation.

    If you've never been on vacation, and found yourself sitting in a chair outside, next to a stranger, and wound up elapsing four hours of conversation without noticing... well then you've never taken the time (six months) to learn to like scotch.

    Allow me to introduce you to Lagavulin. You'll get approximately 10-minutes of conversation per sip,

  • ... for hours, to show me inaccurate representations of people I didn't need to visually see anyway? This is the next killer app!
  • It's lost on them all, the Internet is the metaverse. Your computer with a network connection and the ability to download instructions from anywhere in the word for the computer to interpret to allow you to do things. You do not need an interactive 3D world to have the metaverse and the harder they push those obtuse models of it the longer it's going to be before people realize that the metaverse has been active for decades longer than they recognized it as such.

  • He's right (Score:2)

    by jd ( 1658 )

    It would be super-creepy and the primary corporate use would likely be strippers.

  • ...of "other real-time 3D social entertainment".

    The figure could include:

    80 million monthly Pokemon Go users: https://activeplayer.io/pokemo... [activeplayer.io]
    80 million monthly Fortnite users: https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com] ...and...

    2 monthly users still playing the networked version of Doom

  • Tim Sweeney: I'm not sure if that vision actually works, because it's not very fun to sit around in 3D and just talk to people. It gets really awkward really fast. A bunch of guys can't get together and just sit in a room for hours and have a conversation, right? You have to be shooting darts or playing billiards or shooting hoops or doing something together to break up the dull moments and keep you entertained for a long period of time. And that's what this medium does. I think if you strip the entertainme

  • People with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) often have difficulty "reading" people, i.e. their tone of voice, body language & facial expressions that they express their feelings with. Navigating such a confusing, chaotic & emotionally volatile world is extremely stressful for people with ASDs. It looks like this Metaverse idea will filtre out the more subtle & confusing aspects of human-to-human communication & interaction, making it a less stressful & more productive way to interact wi
  • Can someone explain to me...

    The "metaverse" is supposed to be the big new thing but, other than gaming and some really niche applications (visualizing complex 3D shapes, etc.) what is the attraction of VR?

    That's a serious question. I truly cannot think of a single benefit that VR provides over either video calls or in-person interaction.

    As far as I can tell, the "metaverse" is just the next big con in the same vein as cryptocurrency and NFTs. Just another scam that preys on people's narcissism and

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