Ford Wants To Move To Online-Only Sales For EVs (arstechnica.com) 224
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: [B]uying a Ford electric vehicle might be a lot less painful in the future, if Ford CEO Jim Farley gets his way. On Wednesday, Farley said that he wants the company's EVs to be sold online-only, with no dealer markups or other price negotiations, according to the Detroit Free Press. "We've got to go to non-negotiated price. We've got to go to 100 percent online. There's no inventory (at dealerships), it goes directly to the customer. And 100 percent remote pickup and delivery," Farley said while speaking at a conference in New York.
One of Tesla's most popular innovations was to eschew traditional dealerships and sell its products directly to customers. But traditional manufacturers like Ford are usually prohibited from selling their products directly to customers, a legacy of fears over vertical integration written into state laws during the early 20th century. As such, Ford's franchised dealers will almost certainly still have a role to play. "Then we have this opportunity to use our physical presence to outperform [competitors]. I think our dealers can do it. But the standards are going to be brutal. They're going to be very different than they are today," he said.
The move away from dealerships carrying extensive inventories of cars should save Ford money; the company says that its current distribution model adds around $2,000 in extra costs per car compared to Tesla. A third of that cost is tied up in inventory, and another third is spent on advertising.
One of Tesla's most popular innovations was to eschew traditional dealerships and sell its products directly to customers. But traditional manufacturers like Ford are usually prohibited from selling their products directly to customers, a legacy of fears over vertical integration written into state laws during the early 20th century. As such, Ford's franchised dealers will almost certainly still have a role to play. "Then we have this opportunity to use our physical presence to outperform [competitors]. I think our dealers can do it. But the standards are going to be brutal. They're going to be very different than they are today," he said.
The move away from dealerships carrying extensive inventories of cars should save Ford money; the company says that its current distribution model adds around $2,000 in extra costs per car compared to Tesla. A third of that cost is tied up in inventory, and another third is spent on advertising.
What about test drives? (Score:2)
There's no way to know how a vehicle will work for you without actually driving it. I see no solution here.
Re: (Score:2)
> I see no solution here.
Found the car dealer.
Re: (Score:3)
No, common sense. Do you know how a pair of pants you've never worn before will fit without trying them on? The same with cars. There is no way to know how a car feels, drives, performs, etc without driving it, even for a few minutes.
To say otherwise is being disingenuous.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
If you've been around similar cars, or if you've got your heart set on something, that's one thing. And if you haven't and don't, that's another. The ignorant customer cannot be educated except by experiencing the cars, period. In one sense it's irrelevant in that anyone ought to be able to operate more or less anything ordinary, and in another it very much isn't in that whatever feel you prefer will enhance your comfort level.
Re:What about test drives? (Score:4, Insightful)
>"If you've been around similar cars, or if you've got your heart set on something, that's one thing. And if you haven't and don't, that's another."
I would NEVER buy a car without test driving it and examining all parts of it. I don't understand people ordering such a majorly expensive item having never done that. Of course, it doesn't HAVE to be at a dealer- it could be you rented one or drove a friend's, etc. But how often is that feasible?
Even just the color. I saw a color I thought I liked online and went and looked at the real thing at a dealer and it was HORRIBLE! NOTHING like photos online.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Tedt driving is a seduction attempt to get you to buy. It has nothing to do with a rube rubbing his chin and evaluating the vehicle, no matter how much you fancy yourself with agency.
Re: (Score:2)
People order a TON of items online without a "test period".
Even for vehicles its common to purchase ATV's, boats, etc all without test drives. You don't need to necessarily test out a vehicle before buying it. Just like anything else online, read the reviews, see how others like it, and decide for yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
People use Carvana and buy cars remotely from dealerships today. That said, I think the bigger issue here is a mix between cutting into dealer profits and a low level of interest in electric vehicles. That and the ones who do want to electric have already bought Teslas.
Direct sales does not mean a local dealer won't have one to test drive and get a cut of the sale. It may be less gross cash but there is no floor plan costs, advertising, etc. As for electric cars, I suspect once charging is more convenient and more options at various price points demand will be increase.
Re: What about test drives? (Score:2)
Production better pick up before demand.
Mach-e is booked through the end of the model year. Hyundai and Kia are at about $5k markup as I glance at inventory. Tesla has months of backlog I believe. It'll be interesting to see how the Bolt does after the price drop.
If demand wasn't high for EVs (relative to production) we wouldn't be seeing issues with dealer mark up like we are.
Re: (Score:2)
On the contrary, demand for electric cars is ramping up. At least that's my anecdotal evidence.
Re: What about test drives? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Absolutely. I like the 'straightforward pricing', but don't see the connection between that and 'you must order it online'.
This is the manufacturers wet dream of cost reduction trying to be framed as nothing but upside for the customer.
Imagine if you could reform your dealer network while still offering in-person evaluation, same-day purchase for popular configuration, and having some semblance of facilities for servicing your vehicles (on-site is a great promise, but in practice vehicles frequently need eq
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most US states have actually passed laws saying you can not both make cars, and also sell them directly to the public. Independent car dealerships are mandated by law. This seems to be an end-run around those laws. But then again, more than half of all customers would rather buy direct instead of through a dealership so I don't know who those laws are trying to protect...
Re: What about test drives? (Score:2)
They're trying to protect dealers of course.
Re: (Score:2)
But why were those laws passed in the first place? There weren't really car dealers then, new cars were sold by a manufacturer's outlet.
Re: What about test drives? (Score:2)
Initially it was to assure that consumers would have a place to get their car serviced locally.
Re: (Score:2)
Most US states have actually passed laws saying you can not both make cars, and also sell them directly to the public.
That's only half of it. Car dealerships typically have contracts with the car manufacturers saying the manufacturer can't sell directly to the public. That means, even if there isn't a criminal case through the state, the dealers will have massive lawsuits on the civil side of the courts.
Tesla only has to worry about the criminal laws. They were able to get around all of the civil problems because they were new, and didn't have existing dealer contracts.
Jim Farley is delusional.
Re: (Score:2)
He will try to say that since Tesla is doing it, they should be allowed to as well. And that those contracts only apply to gas engine cars. Still seems delusional.
Re: (Score:2)
He will try to say that since Tesla is doing it, they should be allowed to as well. And that those contracts only apply to gas engine cars. Still seems delusional.
There might be a chance if Ford spins off EVs as a separate brand (bring back Edsel [wikipedia.org]!). It all depends on how the contracts are worded.
Solve that the way Tesla did (Score:3)
When I bought my Model Y a few years ago I was a bit off-balance by the culture they projected that minimized test drives. My Tesla show room was actually at the factory in Fremont, which I suppose has more cars available than elsewhere for this purpose.
What they offer instead is a full refund in 7 days if you don't like the car for any reason. And that would be a better test drive than anyone else would offer. That meant you had to have the wherewithal to financially commit to buying the car, but if
Re: (Score:3)
> What they offer instead is a full refund in 7 days if you don't like the car for any reason. And that would be a better test drive than anyone else would offer. That meant you had to have the wherewithal to financially commit to buying the car, but if you couldn't do that then you weren't a qualified buyer in the first place.
This can also force out some people. For example, if you're going to get a car loan from a third party they will usually want to know what kind of car you're planning to get.
It als
Re: Solve that the way Tesla did (Score:2)
I purchased a car from Caravana with a similar promise, and even did an exchange (though not a refund).
You are correct about the third party financing, it ended up costing me about $5/month, but nothing else was a hassle.
My insurance covers for 5 days on a new car (I assume most do), Caravana simply made me sign a note promising to document insurance within 5 days. There were no fees or anything with the state yet either. I assume that all kicks in after the trial period is over.
It was super easy breezy, bu
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, yes. This is what the manufacturer is thinking here. "Why are we staffing dealerships when we don't need salespeople to convince customers to buy all the cars we can currently produce?!?"
But the shareholders are saying, "If you're sold out of product, either your prices are too cheap or your producti
No Test Drive = No Sale (Score:2)
What they offer instead is a full refund in 7 days if you don't like the car for any reason.
That's not good enough. Why would I want to go through the expense and hassle of registering, insuring and potentially financing a vehicle only to get into it and immediately find that there is not enough headroom or legroom and then have to go through all the hassle of returning and cancelling it while leaving me tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket waiting for the refund or, worse, paying interest on a loan.
Re: (Score:3)
That's not really a solution, you have to pretty well commit to the car before buying without chance for comparison. Last time I got a new car I test drove a handful of candidates in a single day as part of selecting it.
If it's a "I'm pretty sure I want a Model Y, but what if I'm wrong", then yes, a full refund period is a viable alternative.
If it's a "I want a small-SUV of some kind, of which a model y is one possibility", it doesn't work out since you can't reasonably buy all the cars and return the ones
Re: (Score:2)
The one I always heard was: "Fix Or Repair Daily." Both versions were exaggerations, of course. But the Ford I used to own was nevertheless crap versus every car I've owned since. And I can't see myself ever going back to Detroit-built junk from any of the "big 3". Since I ditched the Ford, my rule has been that the VIN must always start with a 'J' and that has served me well. (My first Japanese car outlasted every American car I'd owned, twice over, and then some.)
For a long time I've thought that I'd
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That may work for you, some of us are not so utterly certain of which vehicle we want sight unseen. They have different tunes and design points with different emphasis (somewhat stiffer suspension for responsiveness versus softer for a smoother ride, turbo heavy with high peak power but slower ramp, how heavy is it and does it carry it low, did it prioritize efficiency versus acceleration, etc). Then there's simple ergonomics, which sometimes can be quite telling even in a short period of time.
Particularl
Re: (Score:2)
You book a test drive online, they deliver you a car for 24 or 48 hours, they pick the car back up afterward. Easy to ensure that this isn't abused as well - limits on mileage, tracking systems etc.
So yeah, the solution is trivial and you get a better test drive experience than you would picking the car up from a dealer for an hour.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Good luck with that... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I enjoyed the online "no dealership bullshit" buying experience when I purchased my Tesla. Going to a smarmy dealership and have to waste time dealing with the nonsense is a non-starter for me. I will NEVER do that again. In my case, I test drove a friend's car, decided I liked it, ordered, and had one in my driveway a few weeks later. No muss, no fuss. In 2 years I haven't done anything to it other than charge it at home, add washer fluid, and rotate the tires. Best car I've ever owned.
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Go on Turo and find one.
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Part supply and demand, part not wanting the plebes to dirty up your electric chariot.
Re: (Score:3)
Hertz has Model 3s for rent at many of their sites.
Their order with Tesla for 100,000 cars caused a huge spike in the stock price a year or so back. And no bulk discount they pay the same price the rest of us pay.
And their business model supports that.
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:2)
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:4, Insightful)
Saturn was a flat priced structure when it was around. The price online was the price you paid. No dealership haggling.
Still a dealer mark-up though. This way, Ford can pocket that directly.
Re: (Score:3)
And this is the key, Ford isn't looking to cut prices, they are looking to bump margins. So the end customer experience is simply worse for the same money (you could always order your stuff to order, and generally a dealer visit can be pretty straightforward if you already know what you want to do), and Ford gets more money
Ford is using the 'we are hip like Tesla' as a smokescreen for a profit driven move. Tesla similarly wants to keep the money. Tesla isn't on my candidate list in part because it's *way*
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:5, Informative)
If you have dealerships, then you have to stock them with cars. This means guessing ahead of time what cars will sell, what trim levels, and what options.
This always fails to some extent and you end up selling things off to get rid of them. That's where your 'end of the model year sales event' comes from.
This entire system is suboptimal for the company, the dealer, and the paying customers who ultimately foot the bill for the whole thing.
This is the main reason the manufacturers all want out of this setup
The dealers not so much.
Re: (Score:3)
You can have more conservative forecasting, and decide, for example, that you'll cater to more 'sure thing' configurations, and perhaps relegate more to online-only. You may put a higher priority on pooling inventory, such that car lots are more likely to have to yield to one another.
There are ways to manage inventory in a way that favors a *bit* lean without removing access to the vehicles entirely.
Re: (Score:3)
You're missing some incredibly important pieces to the puzzle here.
If you have dealerships, then you have to stock them with cars. This means guessing ahead of time what cars will sell, what trim levels, and what options.
This always fails to some extent and you end up selling things off to get rid of them. That's where your 'end of the model year sales event' comes from.
This entire system is suboptimal for the company, the dealer, and the paying customers who ultimately foot the bill for the whole thing.
This is the main reason the manufacturers all want out of this setup
The dealers not so much.
Erm... a lot of manufactures these days just use dealers as a sale point. Not a warehouse. The last few cars I've ordered via a dealer I've had a build slot from the factory, when I order it, the manufacturing process hasn't even started. The only model dealers tend to keep in stock are the base model of the lowest grade of car they sell to people who really don't care what they drive. So a white van, or hatchback.
Also manufacturers, regardless of the sales channel will still be estimating the number of
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> In fact, I'd say right now those laws should be null and void as they explicitly try to regulate interstate commerce.
The fact that Congress *can* regulate interstate commerce doesn't mean they *did* prevent states from regulating what's sold in that state, or how it's sold. They *could* say that auto manufacturers are allowed to own the dealerships; they haven't done so.
The supremacy clause says that IF Congress says states can't bar Ford from owning the dealerships, that would override a state law to
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Good luck with that... (Score:2)
Technically this suggests several workarounds.
Create another company with a different stock ticker that Ford owns a large stake in. Have it declare "no dealerships exist" for it's EV only brand and get around it that way.
Declare every dealership in a state fails Fords standards and is no longer allowed to buy cars.
Just-in-time supply chain (Score:2)
We've got to go to 100 percent online. There's no inventory
So the just-in-time suply chain management route. How's that working out for the world right now?
Re: Just-in-time supply chain (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's working out fine. Not sure why you think a temporary blip invalidates a sane business model. What do you think happens if we get to the point of them piling cars and other goods up in warehouses and they sell too slowly due to a downturn? Bad, bad things.
JIT will need to be adjusted and we need to be smarter about the things it applies to (not, for example, contrast dye for important medical procedures which are now having a shortage), but it's not going anywhere.
If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Garages?
Re: If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:2)
Re: If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:5, Funny)
Motor rewind probably requires a specialist.
Wait, you have to wind them? I thought they ran on batteries. :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They (well, Tesla at least) use friction brakes - Tesla uses electric (of course) disc brakes by Brembo. They also, of course, use energy recovery tech, but nobody wants their EV to have worse braking distances than a non-EV from lack of friction components.
Re: (Score:3)
It's literally a matter of law that the car have friction brakes. Per federal motor vehicle safety standard 135:
"Vehicles shall be capable of stopping under partial failure of the service brake system, inoperative brake power assist unit or brake power unit, antilock failure, variable proportioning valve failure, and with the engine off."
You can't meet that requirement without friction brakes. Now, there's no regulation that says you have to use them - you can use regenerative braking as much as you want -
Re: If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"the law is that if everything else in the car is dead, stomping on the brakes still need to bring the vehicle to a full stop."
Or pulling the handbrake that everyone says isn't an emergency brake when it literally is that in addition to being a parking brake, which is why it's technically termed an auxiliary brake. Some vehicles even have a "completely" separate braking system with a cute little drum brake inside of the hat of the rear brake rotor, commonly anything Mercedes. It is good for at least one pan
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of that stuff is already specialized though. Bodywork is typically done at bodyshops, not your general garage. There are specialty brake, transmission, and tire shops for cars. Some of them dabble in other areas and offer services other than their specialty (and some are generalist shops), but it certainly wouldn't be unheard of to simple have a shop specializing in batteries and electric motors for cars.
Re: (Score:2)
not the item you want to have your average IBEW Sparky
Some of them are qualified to work up to 4kV with gloves.
Re: If they cut out the dealers and independents. (Score:2)
2/3 the range at 2-3x the efficiency.
It's only 1/4 of a tank of gas discharging immediately.
Dealerships are plague (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Tesla again forcing the hands of car companies (Score:5, Interesting)
This is another case where the legacy car companies have to respond to what Tesla is doing. Tesla lets the user order a car from the web site, much like one might order food for delivery. Some number of weeks later the car is available for pickup, or even delivered to the customer's house.
Legacy car companies have tried to claim that consumers really love car dealerships and that dealerships are an advantage over Tesla. Here IMHO we have a CEO who is recognizing reality and dealing with it.
Remember that Ford recently announced [ford.com] it was splitting into two companies: the "legacy" Ford, called Ford Blue, and the new BEV company, Ford Model e. Pundits on YouTube commented that this is Ford getting ready for the day when combustion vehicles are no longer profitable... currently these are business units, but at some point in the future Ford Blue will be spun off as its own company. Then inevitably Ford Blue will go bankrupt and shut down, and Ford Model e will be the lifeboat that the chosen few will survive on. Seems clear that the Ford dealerships are going down when Ford Blue does.
"Tesla Economist" on YouTube has estimated [youtube.com] that unionized workers, the dealership model, and the costs of advertising mean that legacy car companies have at least $7500 of extra expenses per car compared to Tesla (which has none of those things). The dealers need their cut of the sale price, which he estimates at around $2000 per car. He estimated that advertising is around $1000, and the extra costs of union labour add around $2000. He also estimates extra costs for "churn" in models (making changes to cars so the old cars will look dated, and selling the older cars at a discount) plus paying lobbyists.
As a result of the above, a legacy car maker would have to somehow make cars for $7500 less than Tesla just to compete on a level playing field. Since Tesla has relentlessly optimized their design to be lean and fast to build, and has vertical integration so they are making their own batteries, this is flatly impossible. It then follows that if someone wants to compete with Tesla, they will have to avoid these extra expenses somehow.
When the Internet was young I read about "disintermediation", the ability of the Internet to get rid of intermediaries in transactions. The buyer can connect directly to the seller with no need for a middleman. This is great for the seller and the buyer and not great for the middlemen. This news story is another example of it.
P.S. Elon Musk has commented that the legacy car companies made a whole lot of money on repairs for combustion vehicles. A combustion engine is constantly trying to shake itself apart or burn itself up, and there are lots of parts that need replacing. So no legacy company wanted to be the first to cut itself off from this valuable money stream.
Tesla, as a new company with no existing business in spare parts or repairs, was free to focus on making BEVs and is forcing the others to react.
It seems clear that the transition from combustion vehicles to BEVs was inevitable but Tesla gets the credit for forcing it to happen now.
Re: (Score:2)
The no-physical-dealership model misses a few critical things:
Re: (Score:3)
EV cars still break and need servicing.
Agreed.
Having a nearby dealership to perform warranty repairs is a huge asset for instilling consumer confidence.
It doesn't have to be the dealership model. Tesla has "service centers" and showrooms; and at least in the service center I visit, there's a showroom there as well.
On-site financing is a huge part of the profit model. Online sales obviously support the seller finance profit model, but also opens the customer up to a larger market of potential online lenders
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe it's different in the US, but in the UK you can shop around different dealers online and get the best price. Only mugs pay list price
In the USA, car dealers are obnoxious and relentless in squeezing the customer for extra money. There's a book about this called Don't Get Taken Every Time [dontgettak...rytime.com].
The situation you describe sounds like list price deliberately has some extra added on so that people can feel like they got a good deal. Are they actually getting a good deal? I don't know, I'm not very good at ba
It can't do it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
I would say it's the opposite.
Ford has a lot of clout with dealerships, especially their own. They can simply *force* their dealerships to do what they want. You're a Ford dealership? Or a dealership that has contracts with Ford for repair services and stuff? Toe the line or Ford no longer will sell you any product.
Anyway, screw car dealers. Scum of the earth.
Re: (Score:2)
NADA is very very powerful. The manufacturers are at their mercy.
The real reason Ford is doing this... (Score:3)
Is to get out from under the dealership contracts they signed years ago. Apparently Ford is setting up a subsidiary company and that company will provide the direct sales. Ford's legal team is betting that this arrangement will allow them to circumvent the dealers. If they tried to challenge it directly they would have hundreds of lawsuits to defend.
The dirty little secret, and Ford knows this all too well, is that customers hate dealing with dealerships. They lie cheat and steal every chance they get. I mean, just look at how much new car prices are being inflated now. In many cases they are asking 10s of thousands of dollars over MSRP, which is a ripoff to begin with. The dealers are digging their own graves.
GM, Toyota and all the rest will soon follow this strategy. So what happens to the dealerships? For the ones that want to stay on they become repair shops. For the ones that don't - tough. Maybe they should have thought of that before ripping off all those customers over the years. Selling them worthless extended warranties and fabric protection using every dirty trick in the book to drive up the price. And good luck trying to get any sympathy from the public.
The next car I buy will be ordered through a website, with all the options and price settled beforehand. They will bring the car to my home for a test drive. I will not set foot in a dealership other than to sign the final documents and even then I'd rather they just FedEx it to me. After the documents are signed they will deliver the car to my house and hand me the keys. Deal done. If I need service or warranty work done I might bring it to them, or I might go somewhere else.
Re: (Score:3)
Try to buy a car now. It is total insanity. People are ordering cars for MSRP and the dealer reneges and sells the car to someone else because it's not technically your car, yet. It's the dealer's car, and they can get $7k+ from someone else for it.
Re: (Score:3)
I doubt their direct sales model would fare any better at meeting demand.
It won't, but if they are implementing no-haggle, non-variable pricing then it will completely eliminate the kind of activity the GP is talking about in their comment.
I would welcome it (Score:2)
No haggle = no clearance pricing (Score:2)
The best time to buy a car was when dealers got rid of their leftover inventory from the previous model year. Obviously, if you had to have the latest and greatest to keep up with the Joneses, that wouldn't work for you.
Of course, in our high-inflation, post-Covid economy, paying a no-haggle MSRP for a vehicle is now a "great deal". Welcome to the new normal, I guess. Glad I bought a new car before this shitshow began.
Re: (Score:3)
You act as if the pricing of stuff never fluctuates online. Stuff is clearanced and put on sale online all the time. There's no reason the same wouldn't apply here it would just be done at the manufacturer level rather than a dealer level.
If in doubt - think about the late 1990's when online shopping started kicking off. Did things generally get cheaper or more expensive once you could buy online? (Hint: its cheaper). With cars we're basically forced to remain in that pre-online shopping phase of brick
The idea has pros and cons, really.... (Score:3)
Tesla struggles because despite the cost savings of selling direct to customers? There's still the very real need for service centers capable of servicing a Tesla promptly and providing solutions for loaner vehicles or other transportation options while warranty repair work is getting done. There's also the challenge of how to handle customer trade-ins. (Since Tesla isn't set up to resell used cars of all makes/models, they wind up just selling all the trade-ins at auto auctions. That means they're less competitive giving people a fair price for a trade.) And lastly, it means new purchasers don't have a way to look over or test drive their car before purchasing it.
Since Ford has an established dealer network, they're in a good position on having plenty of convenient locations to get their vehicles serviced after the sale. But I can see some friction if they sell all their EVs direct and everything else the traditional way. That means a given Ford dealer would want to try to convince as many people as possible NOT to get one of their EVs. And while they might be obligated to service them -- I could see their mechanics having a negative attitude towards them as "vehicles hurting the long-term success of the shop employing us".
Re: (Score:2)
There are three things: buying a new car, selling your current car, and financing the new car.
All three are separate and distinct things. Do not mix them up. Dealers want to mix all the three up and start with "the four square sheet".
Go in with a bank loan pre-approved. Take the dealer financing only if there is an advantage.
Sell the car separately. Talk only about the total sale price of the new car, and till that is settled do not talk about trade in or loan.
re: buying a car (Score:3)
This is true, yet for the vast majority of people, all 3 of these things need to happen around the same time. And this is really one of the reasons buying from a "car dealer" adds convenience.
I've sold cars to people in individual sales before, and sure, you get more money out of one that way than on any trade-in. But it's not as simple as just looking at the dollar amount. When you do the sale yourself, you have to manage the risk of someone writing you a bad check and the (small, but still possible) risk
Re: (Score:3)
Tesla struggles because despite the cost savings of selling direct to customers? There's still the very real need for service centers capable of servicing a Tesla promptly and providing solutions for loaner vehicles or other transportation options while warranty repair work is getting done.
Tesla struggles with this because they're trying to get their mouth around the whole giant super burrito at once. They want all the repair revenues. A typical car company would not only have dealers for that, but they would also publish repair information and provide replacement parts at what you hope are reasonable prices, and for most brands they generally are. Most of them do that through the dealer networks, too, and the dealer is picking up most of the parts profit as well. But the point is, third part
Test-drive? (Score:3)
It's not a wife, it's a car.
Sounds good (Score:3)
Personally the whole price haggling thing is one of the most awkward and annoying parts of buying a car, and the dealership network and model of selling cars is one of the most inefficient relics of the last century still operating.
Last car I bought I actually pretty much picked out online anyways. I showed up at the dealer already knowing that they had the one I wanted in stock (even had to convince the sales person to find it since it wasn't one of the tricked out expensive models they had out front). It would be a lot easier if I could have just configured it how I wanted to begin with and then waited for it to arrive at a local pickup center. Then I could have even gotten the color I wanted (rather then settling for silver - AGAIN).
Adios, $tealerships (Score:3)
I've dealt with some decent dealers, but the majority of them add little to no value, and most of them charge outrageous parts prices. Online parts have forced some of them to become more reasonable; a few big-time mainstream dealers of almost every marque have gone into the low-markup parts business and that's helped a whole lot too, and they are appreciated but extremely in the minority. Most of their involvement is trying to bleed you dry, and the rest is trying to provide substandard service at full price. As we all know EVs aren't going to need much service by comparison, so there's really not going to be any chance of the dealers staying afloat unless they can gouge the living shit out of customers. And no marque could survive if every dealer did that.
Ford dealers are far from the worst culprits, though. It's the Mercedes dealers I can't wait to permanently see the back side of. They're some snooty mofos as a rule, and far too proud of their parts.
About damn time! (Score:3)
I bought a Mach-e and can't wait for the dealership model to disappear. I frequent the mach-e forums and there are tons of stories of dealer's pushing bogus add-ons (nitrogen tires, glass protection, wheel insurance, etc.) or marking cars up thousands of dollars above MSRP. I had to try quite a few dealerships before I found one that wasn't playing dishonest games with price gouging. Search for a Mach-e on dealer websites, you will be lucky to find one at MSRP most are listed at 5-20k over!!
Re: (Score:2)
They're trying to cater to consumers (not out of altruism - consumers tend to shop where they feel comfortable). Consumers typically hate - and I mean fucking loathe - car dealerships. Online shopping's great fame was taking annoying personal interactions out of shopping, and there is no personal interaction more annoying than dealing with a car salesman.
The reality though is that the dealers have spent a lot of time, money, and lobbying power making it very tough to get rid of them, even if everyone hate
Re: (Score:3)
Rule was fine when it helped Ford. Now they get to change that (not Tesla) when it hurts their side?
Ford would literally always have preferred direct sales, and so would all automakers. They were forced to accept the stealershit model, supposedly in the name of consumer protection according to the dealers, but actually to protect their middleman profit leeching fuckery.
Re: (Score:3)
If history is any indication, Ford will make repair documentation and parts available for reasonable prices, unlike Tesla. Part of the appeal of a mass-market vehicle is that it can be serviced anywhere. The big automakers regularly produce and give away a whole lot of service documentation freely because it makes their products more appealing. For example you can get upfitter guides from any of the big 3 that give detailed information on how to add third party equipment to pickup trucks, vans, chassis cab