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Jack Dorsey's TBD Announces Web3 Competitor: Web5 (coindesk.com) 65

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Jack Dorsey's beef with Web3 has never been a secret. In his view, Web 3 -- blockchain boosters' dream of a censorship resistant, privacy-focused internet of the future -- has become just as problematic as the Web2 which preceded it. Now, he's out with an alternative. From a report: At CoinDesk's Consensus Festival here in Austin, TBD -- the bitcoin-focused subsidiary of Dorsey's Block (SQ) -- announced its new vision for a decentralized internet layer on Friday. Its name? Web5. TBD explained its pitch for Web5 in a statement shared with CoinDesk: "Identity and personal data have become the property of third parties. Web5 brings decentralized identity and data storage to individual's applications. It lets devs focus on creating delightful user experiences, while returning ownership of data and identity to individuals."

While the new project from TBD was announced Friday, it is still under open-source development and does not have an official release date. A play on the Web3 moniker embraced in other corners of the blockchain space, Web5 is built on the idea that incumbent "decentralized internet" contenders are going about things the wrong way. Appearing at a Consensus panel clad in a black and bitcoin-yellow track suit emblazoned with the numeral 5, TBD lead Mike Brock explained that Web5 -- in addition to being "two better than Web3" -- would beat out incumbent models by abandoning their blockchain-centric approaches to a censorship free, identity-focused web experience. "This is really a conversation about what technologies are built to purpose, and I don't think that renting block space, in all cases, is a really good idea for decentralized applications," Brock said. He continued: "I think what we're pushing forward with Web5 -- and I admit it's a provocative challenge to a lot of the assumptions about what it means to decentralize the internet -- really actually is back to basics. We already have technologies that effectively decentralize. I mean, bittorrent exists, Tor exists, [etc]." The full presentation is here.
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Jack Dorsey's TBD Announces Web3 Competitor: Web5

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  • Ah, the Winamp versioning system.

  • Fuck everything (Score:5, Funny)

    by arosenfield ( 998621 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @08:36PM (#62610742)

    Fuck everything, we're doing five blades. [theonion.com]

  • Solving the wrong problem (Score:3)

    by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @08:43PM (#62610748)

    The standard problems with these types of arrangements is that hierarchical structures cannot abide a lack of control (already seen how Web 1.0 was essentially legislated/corporatized into oblivion).

    New technologies are great and all, but unless there is a corresponding societal change, it amounts to a countdown before they are commodified.

    And if there is a societal change, there is no need for Web 5.

    • Actually, I think the Internet being a steaming pile of influences and manipulations is catching up to it. What would you rate the value added to your life from average two hours studying anything from books from Amazon to average two hours online? The Internet should be 100 times better than the old information tech, but the downsides are actually making it worse. I think its past time to reimagine it.

      • Had this discussion with someone else regarding the web, and I tend to fall back on the McLuhan observation that "improvement" from any new technology is more having more options on how to disperse the downsides (the information is unchanged), which new technology definitely plays a role in.

        My conclusion then was the web was less a communication technology as much as commerce technology now.

        And those factors that made the change remain in play (and are in fact amplified).

      • Re: Solving the wrong problem (Score:4, Insightful)

        by barlevg ( 2111272 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @11:19PM (#62610894)
        As someone who parented a kid through the Pandemic, I have to disagree. You can pick up skills through YouTube alone, from game design and modding to through-hole soldering to how to make the perfect mashed potatoes, that would have required paid classes or expensive (and already-outdated) textbooks two decades ago.

        Yes, this did come at a cost--nothing short of the collapse of democracy and possibly society as a whole--but you really can't claim that an internet where you can, with a few gestures, pull up a video that will show you how to replace a flat tire, while you're stranded on the side of the road (and also suggest to you three local tow services and five mechanics), is less useful than the days when you had to interrupt scrolling through Lycos search results so that your mom could make a phone call.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          As someone who parented a kid through the Pandemic, I have to disagree. You can pick up skills through YouTube alone, from game design and modding to through-hole soldering to how to make the perfect mashed potatoes, that would have required paid classes or expensive (and already-outdated) textbooks two decades ago.

          I do agree on that. And in addition, you get comments and reviews that, if you know how to read them, give you an additional idea as to the quality of the content.

          There is a limit though: You cannot learn things that require deeper insights that way unless you are on of the rare people that can teach themselves. I tend to think these coincides with independent thinkers (that can also fact-check, unlike most people) and hence will only be 10...15% of the population or so. So for some things getting an actual

          • I don't think self-teaching is innately rare. It is the default mind and skillset among the poor/rural communities even if they are for a number of reasons focused on more immediate needs for those skills.

            Still there are definitely things which require experience and those tend to be more efficiently transferred with the guide. Usually the roadblocks are small pieces here and there. Perhaps that is the best blend, a self-learner combined with a mentor they can reach out to.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              Well, yes and no. In the poor/rural community cases you ca do learning by doing and there will usually be people that are willing to show you. But a lot of modern knowledge is abstract and there the number of people that can do it by themselves.

              Perhaps that is the best blend, a self-learner combined with a mentor they can reach out to.

              I fully agree on that.

          • *You cannot learn things that require deeper insights that way unless you are on of the rare people that can teach themselves*

            That is exactly the thing. I am one of the people who can self teach, but in a quiet place with a book. It takes a much higher level of focus to do it with a million ads and distractions all honed to get your attention for higher views.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by gweihir ( 88907 )

              Indeed. One of the reasons I still print out some stuff I get from the web. Nothing blinking and beeping and competing for attention in a b/w printout.

        • It comes at a price though. Video is really only a good medium for a superficial level of focus and complexity. The rise of youtube instruction has been great but the decline of textual resources that has coincided with it is depressing sometimes.

          • It also works much better for people with the ability to focus and concentrate for at least a few minutes at a time, and, both among children and adults, there are many who do not have that ability.

            I'm ALWAYS multitasking, by necessity, but I'm not good at it. The result is that I rarely get to give my undivided attention to anyone or anything.

            For me, written/readable materials are better, so that, if nothing else, I can keep track of where I am, and also more easily go back to previous material if I get d

        • Don't mourn the "collapse of democracy." We are living through two of its unavoidable end results, both of which have been known since antiquity:

          • * Instead of people mostly ruling themselves, those who can best manipulate the masses end up ruling all.
          • * Those who realize they can use said manipulation to vote themselves goodies do so, at the expense of everyone else; then, others catch on and lobby to do the same, and production gives way to attempted wealth redistribution, which, somehow, always puts

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Ironically (given the OP), you probably get negtive utility from web 2.0. The good old original is pretty good, how good depending more on you than it.

        • There is some utility IMO. You can write apps in Web 2.0 with user interaction, avoid page reloads, etc.; these apps can in some cases rival, or with the help of something like Electron (guggh, yes, I know), even work like, native ones.

          Something better seems needed at this point, but I don't think "Web 3.0" is it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            Read the post I replied to. Now consider answering a modified version of his question:

            What value do you get from spending a few hours a) reading an educational book; b) watching educational YouTube channels or c) reading the YouTube comments on those videos.

      • Court cases livestreamed over the internet have allowed one to see the complete and total mismatch with reality and what the media portrays as such in real-time, and accompanying lawyer panels during them give insight into pedal minutia. Unfortunately federal cases are not livestreamed, so cases like the Maxwell trial or Michigan "kidnapping" case were not available.

    • "And if there is a societal change, there is no need for Web 5."

      I disagree with this. No matter how society changes human nature isn't going to change with it. There will never come a time when all people are trustworthy, it will forever remain that most people are usually honest in most ways. Social change can shift the ways around but that is it.

      The most sound strategies are and always will be strategies that assume no trust.

      I'm not specifically supporting THIS proposal and web 5 (or opposing) but somethi
  • With a pitchfork.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by martinX ( 672498 )

      Yep. Tim Berners-Lee invents Web 1.0 and makes it free for all. Rich tech heads want to reinvent the web and own it. Fuck them all.

  • Haha, got you beat! I hereby announce Web7! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @09:05PM (#62610768)

    Details to follow at a later date, but send me all your money right now or you will be missing out badly! You do not want to be a loser that gets left behind, now do you?

  • I dream of the days we could go back to self hosted blogs with ping backs. Web 2. DNS was too centralized tho.

    I like Web 3 for verification, but itâ(TM)s way too centralized.

    So let me host YOUR data on MY private key. If I donâ(TM)t know what youâ(TM)re asking me to pay to host, I will reject you. Tell me what Iâ(TM)m hosting, and Iâ(TM)ll allow it.

  • Some of the use cases are kinda cool? Being able to have a standardized yet decentralized location for apps to push/pull data in that the user actually controls is neat. But I suspect the xkcd about new standards still applies here, lol.

  • in addition to being "two better than Web3"

    I'm personally waiting til Web11, where they go as far as they can and then go one more.

  • And we'll keep it at Web10 indefinitely.

  • Web640? (Score:4, Funny)

    by kmoser ( 1469707 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @11:18PM (#62610892)
    Web640 ought to be enough for anybody.

  • Not even interested in Web3 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @11:51PM (#62610918) Homepage

    Web3 / Web5 / whatever make some big promises
    - Freedom from control by corporations
    - Anonymity
    - Freedom from government control

    All of these are illusions or daydreams or just outright fraudulent claims by a new set of entrepreneurs who want their hands on your money.

  • Twitter creator advises on internet privacy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Friday June 10, 2022 @11:56PM (#62610924)

    and in other news, Donald Trump gives lectures on constitutional law now.

    What a fucking joke. I know dismissing the message because of who the messenger is is a bias, but honestly... Jack Dorsey forfeited the right to have any opinion on privacy ever,

  • I posted about this before, but this model of much more decentralized services for personal or social data doesn't work. Even if you had amazing symmetrical networks for mobile or home internet, the simple fact is that storing data on a client device for access just doesn't work for the vast majority of users. It is too much risk and complexity in terms of security and maintenance for also most all users. Devices break, are lost or get stolen and local backup is really problematic.

    Yes, we could make a decen

  • ... redo the broken and outdated protocols and services already. Starting with DNS. Make that blockchain-based ( a thing where blockchain actually makes sense) and then redo email and clean up and extend the actual web with offline, crypto by default, optional signatures, anonymous crypto tokens and perhaps a signed 30 minute timestamp for transactions.

    One would expect some tech expert like this guy to grasp the actual shortcomings of the current internet and try to fix them rather than simply pushing yet a

  • Already superceeded (Score:3)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Saturday June 11, 2022 @03:27AM (#62611098)

    Web3, Web5, it's all bullshit. Let me tell you about Web7. It's like Web2.0 except that it has a bigger number so that the unwashed idiots will think it's an even newer hotness than Web3 or Web5 and they can all leave us the fuck alone.

    Promote it everywhere: Web7 is here!

  • The privacy focus is based on an assumption that the vast majority of people care about their privacy.

  • Anyone with the clout to actually push this into existence has a vested interest in it never see the light of day, so how should this take off?

  • I don't remember that one sticking around for very long. Was that the one that was funded with Luna crypto?

  • But he's going to feel like a real asshole when he finds out about a new version of the Gopher protocol [wikipedia.org]

  • This is hilarious. Reminds me of Vanilla JS, private/home cloud and Long Blockchain Corp. The only way to get attention is to have a spot on the buzzword bingo board.

  • Ralphie as an Adult : [narrating] NOW it was serious. A web 3.0 dare. What else was there but a web 4.0 dare? And then, the coup de grace of all dares, the sinister web 5.0 dare.

    Dorsey : I web 5.0 dare ya'!

    Ralphie as an Adult : [narrating] Dorsey created a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the 4.0 dare and going right for the throat!

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