Samsung Electronics Floats Nearly $200 Billion Spend on New Texas Plants in Next Decades (wsj.com) 102
Samsung Electronics has floated the prospect of investing nearly $200 billion for 11 new chip-making plants in Texas over the next two decades, a mega splurge that if executed would dramatically boost its semiconductor foothold in the U.S. From a report: The South Korean tech giant's proposed spending was divulged in recent filings submitted to the Texas Comptroller's office and made public Wednesday. One likely motivation is a year-end expiration of a Texas state incentive program offering property tax breaks for 10 years for large investments. The filings don't commit Samsung to invest. The Suwon, South Korea-based company doesn't currently have specific plans to pursue the new factories outlined in the filings, a Samsung spokeswoman said. The spending proposals reflect the company's long-term planning process to evaluate the viability of further U.S. expansion, she added.
What was the old saying? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Trust, but verify"
IOW, I'll celebrate this when it actually happens, not before.
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resources (Score:1)
Don't they need a fuckton of water for their manufacturing processes?
Water they don't and won't have due to the drought in the west?
And relying on a power grid that has no redundancy?
How does this make business sense?
Not this week. 30X as much rain. (Score:2)
Water is not generally a problem in most parts of Texas. Not like it is in say, California, where you have crazy population density in a desert.
Dallas typically gets about three inches of rain in June, vs 0.1 inches in Los Angeles. So yeah, 30 times as much rain, on average.
This year was very strange. There was no rain in June. This week is a bad week to need a lot of water. They won't open the manufacturing plants this week.
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Hey! Dallas and LA are in different rain zones, and have a different distribution of rain during the year. You know that, so don't try a one month comparison.
From https://www.currentresults.com... [currentresults.com]
City | Rain days | Annual in | mm
Dallas, TX 82 38.3 973
Los Angeles, CA 34 14.3 362
Phoenix, AZ 33 7.2 183
And PHX has some very large fabs. I used to work next to two. Water is a real problem, but they've gotten far mor
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June is the relevant month for "this drought", because the lack of any rain in June is what's causing the current issue in Texas.
As you noted, Dallas typically gets over twice as much rain as LA or Phoenix. It's also more consistent, with more than five times as many rainy days as Phoenix.
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Most of this year has been a problem. I track the Dallas historical precipitation numbers. Every month this calendar year has been substantially below average. January saw only 0.08 inches of precipitation, 96% lower than the historical average (and an abnormally dry December didn't help). Here is the total monthly precipitation so far this year measured in inches followed by the 30-year historical average and then the difference in percentage:
Jan: 0.08 | 2.36 | -96.6%
Feb: 2.03 | 2.73 | -25.6%
Mar: 2.12 | 3.
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Thanks for that detailed info.
We're headed into hurricane season. Hopefully some storms bring some rain our way.
You provided averages for the months so far. Just for fun in case anyone else is still reading, here are the averages I found for the rest of the year:
Jul 2.12in.
Aug 2.03in.
Sept 2.42in.
Oct 4.11in.
Nov 2.57in.
Dec 2.57in.
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Looking at the list above, I realized I pulled July's number from the historical average (1899-2021), though it doesn't really change things that much as the 30-year average is 1.91 inches and zero is zero. Here's the actual last 30 from my charts for the month. (Annual doesn't equal the sum of the monthly averages because each set is averaged on its own.)
Jan: 2.36
Feb: 2.73
Mar: 3.32
Apr: 3.25
May: 4.64
Jun: 3.54
Jul: 1.91
Aug: 2.60
Sep: 2.55
Oct: 4.20
Nov: 2.57
Dec: 2.47
Annual: 35.74
I source everything from the Nati
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Thanks again.
It's too bad that with all of your knowledge about precipitation here, you can't answer the one question everyone wants answered - when are we going to get some dang rain!?
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Well, it was going to be Friday, but then it got canceled, because apparently we haven't had enough 100+ degree days yet.
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I'm not sure how much a fuckton of water is. Is it more than a Library of Congress full/football field (American).
East Texas is more like Lousiana than West Texas.
Houston averages over 40 inches a year of rain. When hurricanes visit it can be 60-80 inches.
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Pretty sure most fabs have water recycling as a part of their operation plan. You should examine the water situation in Taiwan to see how it affect TSMC and farmers there.
https://www.industryweek.com/s... [industryweek.com]
Yay! (Score:3)
Sounds great, just make sure to uninstall all the default apps in the plants to save like 30% of your resources.
Suprising (Score:4, Interesting)
since texas yanked the plug on one of their plants during low power and cost them millions of dollars.
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Wonder how many of the Samsung execs will get called a "chinamen" during their vists?
Re:Suprising (Score:5, Insightful)
People act as if power grids never go down in places besides Texas. Or they pretend that Texas's power grid is worse, but they never actually check if that's true. Why go to the trouble when you can just forward meme links instead.
Widespread outages from severe weather unfortunately happen. Hurricane Sandy caused outages in 24 states! The Northeast blackout in 2003 impacted over 50 million people. Texas's recent outage barely even makes it onto the list of notable or deadly power outages.
In the case of the semiconductor industry, I know about this because I work in the semiconductor industry, including in Texas. Texas saved Samsung billions of dollars by coordinating with Samsung to do a controlled factory shutdown during the ice storm. Seriously, due to above-and-beyond professional management by Texas during the ice storm, Samsung saved literal billions. When discussing Samsung's plans to further expand manufacturing in Texas, Samsung specifically mentioned the strength of the Texas power grid as one of the reason for expanding there.
When I worked at a large fab on the east coast, we had power outages that cost us millions of dollars, and we had them multiple times per year, with no warning or help from the state. But that doesn't make the news or stoke the "TX is bad" echo chamber.
By the way, Texas also has tons of wind power (over 30GW), more than any other state. The installed wind capacity in Texas is greater than any other COUNTRY except China. Texas is also poised to surpass California in installed utility-scale solar.
Texas is practically a gold standard when it comes to energy, including green energy, and including grid quality and stability, but that won't stop the memes.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=47636#:~:text=The%20installation%20of%202.5%20GW,in%20Texas%20to%2014.9%20GW.
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I'm glad to hear that Texas coordinated with Samsung during the ice storm, but nevertheless there were very significant power outages that were entirely preventable. And apparently they still aren't being prevented, the Texas legislature refused to require winterization in the recent session.
Also note that Texas is isolated from the national grid so the state doesn't have to abide by federal regulations. This means Texas can't draw on neighboring grid electricity during shortages. And there are shortages, t
Re: Suprising (Score:2)
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No cite? A couple of links doesn't mean it is integrated.
"a deregulated energy market largely isolated from the rest of the country’s power grid"
https://www.texastribune.org/2... [texastribune.org]
""Other states require you to have cold weather packages on your generation equipment and require you to use, either through depth or through materials, gas piping that is less likely to freeze,""
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Better get the heck out of China's sphere of influence before the CCP makes an offer Taiwan can't refuse.
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Facts are now considered trolling here?
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Can you lay out the legal logic of that one, or are you just throwing around the term "human rights" in the sense of "anything I want to do is a right"? Because I'm pretty sure Texas abortion laws do not amount to human rights violations in any real sense.
https://www.texastribune.org/2... [texastribune.org]
https://www.cnn.com/videos/hea... [cnn.com]
Depriving medical care of the mother over a nonviable fetus sounds like a human rights violation to me.
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Depriving medical care of the mother over a nonviable fetus sounds like a human rights violation to me.
OK but I'm asking you what legal basis there is for that claim. Human rights aren't just whatever you want them to be, they have to be mutually agreed upon by society. Has that been done, here? Because I don't think it has. If it has, you should be able to show me where we all agreed to that right.
So, can you?
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Let me google "human rights for dummies" since you want to be a pedantic cunt about things. https://www.un.org/en/global-i... [un.org]
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OK now explain what part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, etc. applies here, and why.
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So, your argument is that we have to provide social protection, an adequate standard of living, and the highest attainable standards of physical and mental well being for all humans.
Are fetuses human?
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Since you keep moving the goalposts and are being a deliberate dickhead, there's one simple overriding rule which applies to everyone on the planet. Bodily autonomy. You have the right to do with your body what you want.
Further, there is a national law (don't have it handy) which says the government may not take your organs when you die and give them to others who are in need without your explicit permission. In other words, bodily au
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Bodily autonomy. You have the right to do with your body what you want.
No you don't, and absolutely nobody seems to think that's true when it's inconvenient to their agenda. For example, covid vaccination mandates are clearly an imposition on bodily autonomy, but one that courts have consistently ruled is generally permissible. In fact, from requirements to wear certain clothing in public, to requirements restricting excretion, public health and the protection of the health and safety of OTHERS LIVES has al
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Yeah I gotta second that. The bodily autonomy argument has a lot of good and valid points but also has a lot of inconsistencies and holes like you mention so while it deserves some recognition it's not the most solid basis for a pro-choice point of view.
Seems like all the arguments eventually boil down to "is a fetus a thing worth moral consideration" and I think the reasonable answer is "no, up to a point" and where that point is should be the focus of the argument. While a two week old fetus is "alive"
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That's to promote the health and safety of the community. Wouldn't want the bubonic plague to rampage again because someone didn't want to get a vaccine, would we? We already saw what happens in this scenario [go.com].
In fact, from requirements to wear certain clothing in public, to requirements restricting excretion, public health and the protectio
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That's to promote the health and safety of the community.
That's the same intent that abortion ban supporters will tell you they have, because they consider the fetus to be a life.
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Well, a fetus is - according to the perception of Texas voters - such an "other life".
Unless you're in a Texas HOV lane, then it doesn't count [cnn.com].
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Now that's outrageous. I want to see some "Fetus On Board" bumper stickers.
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Well come to think of it, the constitution doesn't explicitly mention medical care so the current supreme court would rule you have no right to medical care. The constitution also makes no mention of interracial marriage. Justice Thomas is strangely silent on that issue though.
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There are laws that cover health care (ACA, HIPPA, and others comes to mind). Roe versus Wade was a court decision (not a law passed) that "legalized" abortion.
Regardless of how you feel about the issue, I don't understand how you think the issues you mentioned are the same.
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Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:1)
Not sure about the legal aspects, but I should have the right to do to my body what I like. It's a basic human right even if it's not recognized currently.
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My Body My Choice! the republicans cried when asked to wear a mask in Target.
So you don't want the government telling you what you can do with your own body? Is that correct?
Oh this is different? I see.
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The logic is that pro-life republicans see a baby as a life and deserving rights.
Your inability to even understand where the pro-life side is coming from is why there can be no debate on this topic.
As a pro-lifer, I can at least ackwoldge that pro-choice people do not see a fetus as a life and are not knowingly pro-child murder.
The issue is a tough one and hard to find compromise.
If you see a fetus as a baby, then it's hard to come up with a good reason to end it's life. It can't just be based on viability
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I wish I could sit down and have a beer with you because you appear to one of the few people who see the actual and true complexity of this issue. Which side is right here....I have not a clue, but I do understand that the only good solution moving forward is through meaning discussions.
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The truth is unless you have a uterus you really shouldn’t be telling others what to do with theirs. Don’t like abortions? Fine then don’t get one. Stop telling others what to do based on your religion or morality.
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The fact that you use the terms fetus and baby means they are not the same. How’s that old saying go, if you don’t like abortions then don’t get one. Sounds simple enough.
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The fact that you use the terms fetus and baby means they are not the same.
I use the term baby. I was trying to use a term that both sides could agree on that was non-polarizing.
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So you're essentially admitting that "human rights" in your world just means whatever the F you want. You're playing games tricking everyone into thinking that when you use the term "human rights", you mean what we all mean when we say it.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
There are fundamental things most of us can agree are ethical an unethical regardless of what the law says. Do you think it is ethical to prevent people from getting body piercings or tattoos? I think most people would call that a human rights violation.
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There are fundamental things most of us can agree are ethical an unethical regardless of what the law says.
The law is what we agree on. So what you just said makes absolutely zero sense.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
Slavery used to be legal. That doesn't make it ethically correct.
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Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
If you are arguing in favor of Slavery, you have lost already.
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Slavery used to be legal. That doesn't make it ethically correct.
Same with abortion
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:3)
You mean criminalizing abortion. It's only the religious folks that want to oppress the rest of us.
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The fact that you are apparently quite comfortable in wildly mis-characterizing the vast majority of pro-life people indicates to me that you part of the problem and not part of the solution. The pro-life people are not part of an evil cabal that just wants to oppress woman, they simply see life starting at conception and want to protect that life....nothing more and nothing less. A good working solution can only be found when people have a discussion and that discussion involves people who understand the o
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
Okay first of all there is a clear majority in favor of pro choice.
Second of all I know I am spitting into the wind as we watch America's decline into fascism. Everything is broken and it is not getting fixed. That is the hard reality here. We have no working healthcare system, our rights are eroding, and we cannot even contain a pandemic.
Simply put we really are fucked but the least we can do is point it out.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
Simply put I don't care because it is not possible to be part of the solution. We live in a post fact post high road environment.
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And those poll questions can have heavy stipulations for the yes which means you once again have mis-characterized the situation as a simple "the majority want it". Look, I get it that you want it without having to think about it, but you are no different than the ones that don't want it and won't think about it either.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
I don't know what you are talking about. 140% of people are pro choice.
You can cling to trying to be impartial or center or whatever for as long as you like but most of the rest of the developed world is horrified at us.
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Guessing the 140% was some type of typo so will leave that one alone. And now comes the "everyone is doing it" argument. I heard that one from my kids more times than I could count so yeah...not an argument but a grasp. Just because others are doing "it" (whatever you want "it" to represent) does not equate to it being good and correct. I can see that you are just part of the greater problem where people don't want to actually think about a subject because it is actually difficult.
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The issue is that "starting at conception" is an arbitrary distinction both scientifically and ethically but for those on the pro-life side this is inarguable so how does one compromise with a person who looks at simply a fertilized egg as equivalent to a human child?
I think many on the pro-choice side are willing to have a discussion as to where we put the cutoff and the fact that there should be cutoff somewhere before the fetus is birthed. Casey had this at 22 weeks and I don't see a problem with that p
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Simply put I don't care because it is not possible to be part of the solution. We live in a post fact post high road environment.
You've been extremified. Please recognize that and try to de-extremify yourself. We people who are more conservative than you are not ontologically evil racist nazis. We are remarkably similar people in most ways and you couldn't have a successful country without us.
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The pro-life people are not part of an evil cabal that just wants to oppress woman
They can claim that, but it is a poor excuse because the end result is the same.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
Agree to disagree.
Re: No one should locate to Texas (Score:2)
It was intentional 140% agree pro choice is the way to go. It's up to 160% now I've decided. It's okay, no one cares about facts anymore anyways.
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Prohibiting abortion gives pregnant women less rights over their bodies than proto-maybe-children.
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Like Samsung cares?
Abortion law in S. Korea is very restrictive, and has only recently been changed. Plus Samsung isn't an American corporation. What makes you think they're worried about social issues? They do business in a lot of countries with different laws on abortion.
Power usage (Score:2)
I hope these plants are energy efficient. Texas is warning people not to set their AC too low or the Freedom Grid will collapse.
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Unprecedented heatwave in an area that never gets them or a region known for regularly breaking 100F. Yes totally the same.
With what water? (Score:3)
Nobody's going to invest there. Not for real anyway. And pretty soon anyone who has enough education to get a job somewhere else it's going to move because there's no water and no electricity. The political climate doesn't help either.
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Remember,near, the original companies that gave us a lot of tech, and affordable tech, were between houston and Dallas up to Oklahoma. Texas Instruments, Compaq. Yes like worldwide if temperatures get extreme, production has to shut down. Taiwan
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The colorado river in the western US is not the same colorado river running through Austin, Texas - lol.
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LOL! Nice one! +1 informative
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You know I can't keep up (Score:2)
Just to be clear Texas is a state and everyone who lives in that state is either a citizen of that state or a guest of that state and has every right and
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There definitely is water and electricity in Austin.
The drinking water mostly comes from Lake Travis, a nearby reservoir lake. The city owns several electricity generating plants and gets 23% from renewables.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Samsung will likely pony up for their own generation facilities. Not sure on the water, but as other posters here opined, Texas has pretty good water availability through rainfall, and a lot of modern fabs are using water recycling. See Intel's material on water recycling at their Chandler facility:
https://www.gilbertsunnews.com... [gilbertsunnews.com]
This is how it's done, Intel (Score:2)
While Intel is begging the Feds and the EU to prop up their failing business, Samsung is spreading their wings and localizing manufacturing to markets that need it. You want a steady chip supply, United States? Let Samsung and TSMC do it for you.
When you see how your (our) native darling Intel has been spending their money, you'll regret giving them anything.
Hope they don't need reliable electricity... (Score:2)
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It's a shame Texas doesn't have a reliable source of fuel to make onsite generation possible.
They probably learned that from Foxconn (Score:2)
Just need to make sure some moron is in power and they will get anything they want and will not have to deliver.