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Google To Be Banned in Ukraine's Occupied Donetsk and Luhansk Regions (theguardian.com) 114

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Google's search engine is to be banned in the occupied Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk after pro-Russian authorities there accused the US tech giant of promoting "terrorism and violence against all Russians." From a report: In a statement posted to the social messaging service Telegram, Denis Pushilin, head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), said: "The inhuman propaganda of Ukraine and the west has long crossed all boundaries. There is a real persecution of Russians, the imposition of lies and disinformation." He accused Google's search engine of being at the forefront of this effort, saying it "openly, on the orders of its curators from the US government, promotes terrorism and violence against all Russians, and especially the population of Donbas."
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Google To Be Banned in Ukraine's Occupied Donetsk and Luhansk Regions More

Google To Be Banned in Ukraine's Occupied Donetsk and Luhansk Regions

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  • Serious Question (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mrex ( 25183 ) on Friday July 22, 2022 @01:04PM (#62724920)

    How long can an unfragmented internet last, in conditions of active cyber war between highly motivated, highly advanced nation-scale adversaries?

    • How long can an unfragmented internet last, in conditions of active cyber war between highly motivated, highly advanced nation-scale adversaries?

      Define fragmentation. Blocking something doesn't make the internet fragmented providing you can get around the block. And given the only people actually engaging in blocking are dictators another question is: do we care?

      It's not uncommon for websites to already IP block Russia and China sourced addresses. It's not uncommon for Russian or Chinese businesses who deal with the west to have western hosted customer facing presences. I will wager you've never actually visited an actual Chinese or Russian website.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mrex ( 25183 )

        Define fragmentation.

        Probably something like an overlay network that requires cryptographic authentication to route traffic on, where entites are all specifically known and can be excluded based on identity or location.

    • Let me yTKa yTKa exaTb that for you.

    • How long can an unfragmented internet last, in conditions of active cyber war between highly motivated, highly advanced nation-scale adversaries?

      About a decade ago, I had a girlfriend who was born and raised in China and had lived in a very large city most of her life. She worked for a bank, but I don't honestly remember exactly what her job was. I know it was some kind of office job. She was college educated and a fluent English speaker. Anyway, the point of all this is that she wasn't an IT person. She knew ways to get around government censorship and "the Great Firewall". Again, not an IT person and she knew this stuff. The Chinese

      • Most law enforcement is this way. Getting 90-95% compliance is easy, but getting 100% compliance is extremely expensive and probably impossible.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mrex ( 25183 )

        I want to take it away from China this, Russia, that, and The Donald this and Glorious Leader that, into just the more abstract "game theory"-ish question.

        As I see the internet developing, there seems to be almost no incentive for certain nations to maintain network connectivity to each other, and significant downside risk. Imagine having a door to your house that basically only lets in flies? Who wants that?

  • A real persecution of Russians (Score:4, Insightful)

    by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Friday July 22, 2022 @01:05PM (#62724922)
    If real persecution of Russians were actually a problem, every single Russian/Soviet government would have to be guillotined.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Targon ( 17348 )
      They also don't seem to understand that if the USA were as anti-Russian as these people claim, then you would see a LOT of rockets and fighter jets from the USA being used to attack not only the Russian invading troops, but also some "stray" missiles might be landing in places like...Moscow.
      • This has nothing to do with being pro or anti-Russia. The US policy is to keep Russia thinking that they can win the war while arming Ukraine just enough that Russia can't win. The idea (for better or worse) is that there won't be a nuclear escalation if Putin thinks he's on the brink of victory. I don't like the policy because it leads to very high Ukrainian civilian deaths. But the strategy itself has been made forcefully and publicly clear.

        • The strategy is the same as in Afghanistan: Bleed the Russian economy dry by forcing it to pump more and more resources into the war.

          Back in Afghanistan, it eventually fell the Soviet Union. Wonder what's gonna happen this time.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            The strategy is the same as in Afghanistan: Bleed the Russian economy dry by forcing it to pump more and more resources into the war.

            Back in Afghanistan, it eventually fell the Soviet Union. Wonder what's gonna happen this time.

            The Russian economy isn't the problem, it's the people. Russia has started to prosecute Russians trying to leave Russia. There have been more than a few Russian hockey players that are effectively trapped in Russia - despite working for NHL teams. They only returned to Russia to visi

        • Ukraine is pressed for time though -- it needs a major win before the midterms to convince the US it is worth supporting them. That is, assuming the GOP retakes the House.

        • The US policy is to keep Russia thinking that they can win the war.

          If the US had the ability to make Russia think anything, this wouldn't be it. Russia makes up its own mind.

          • The US has the ability to deliver weaponry that would end the war in a day. It's pretty hard to think you are winning if 100% of your troops and equipment are killed and destroyed. You're right that the US can't actually make Russia think they are winning but the US can make sure that Russia has the potential to do that through ensuring that the loss is slow-walked.

      • Russia came to the west and asked to be included in their economic planning, to look at the short term, last 25 years. Russia is considered a European nation and was asked to join the EU first. Europe has a long history of independent statehood and always had a goal of all European nations under one federation. And any objections by the US political circles on the matter of Russia not being part of this strategy are being nullified as we speak.

        • Russia is considered a European nation and was asked to join the EU first.

          What?

          • Russia was one of the countries who demanded to be formally asked to join the EU before anyone else. They were asked informally but their formal invitation was down the list a few spots. which was a reason given for the refusal. The other country who demanded the same, the UK who complained their informal and formal invitations was not the first priority of the EU body. Funny how one is threatening to invade western Europe while the other has left the EU...at the same time.

            • I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying I'd love to see a source for that. Russia did have an agreement with the EU about mutual relations early after the fall of the USSR, but it wasn't anything approaching an invitation to join. As for the UK, they were a founding member in 1992. If this was contemporary with the invitation to Russia, I *definitely* would love to read the explanation for the desire of the other nations of the Maastricht Treaty to include a Russian Federation that, fresh out of the co

              • This was during the charter negotiations, before the EU was ratified. There was about a week or two of general council like gatherings where formal signed requests were submitted and read. But before that the criteria for full membership were to be satisfied. If you didn't meet the full requirements you were given time to go back to your government and ask if it were possible. If it took more time and most who did not meet the requirements needed much more time, something like an intent to join was given. I

                • I guess I just don't remember this, it must have been a short courtship. There was less than a month and a half between the final dissolution of the Soviet Union and the signing of the Maastricht Treaty.
      • This does not happen not because of the benevolence of the USA, but because Russia has nukes. Otherwise it would have been destroyed just like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.

    • If real persecution of Russians were actually a problem, every single Russian/Soviet government would have to be guillotined.

      The Soviet Union does not exist anymore. Russia has become a strange hybrid of a kleptocracy and a fascist dictatorship. Please upgrade your FUD because rambling on about the Soviet Union just makes you look like a senile Cold War boomer.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Miles_O'Toole ( 5152533 )

        His comment includes past behaviour, and is therefore accurate in referring to the Soviet Union. Are you too stupid to understand this, or are you an actual Russian troll?

        • His comment includes past behaviour, and is therefore accurate in referring to the Soviet Union. Are you too stupid to understand this, or are you an actual Russian troll?

          It's been almost half a century since the USSR was tossed onto the garbage heap of history. Get some new FUD or are you too dumb to buy a ticket to a Trump rally?

      • As terrible and corrupt and brutal as Russia is, the self proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk are twice as bad.

      • The Soviet Union consisted of Russia and it's formal vassal states. Now we have Russia and informal vassal states. Of course not as many subjugated countries as many former soviet republics were smart and fortunate enough to become EU/NATO. But not all.
      • Please learn to read before arguing with people on the internet, it's actually kinda important.

        • ... Soviet ...

          Please learn to read before arguing with people on the internet, it's actually kinda important.

          Go exercise your awesome reading skills here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] The Soviet Union went the way of the dinosaurs. Anybody who still plays the 'Soviet' card either became an early onset Alzheimer patent back in the early 80s or just woke up from a 50 year coma.

          • Let me break down what a "/" means.

            When someone says "Russian/Soviet", the "/" is read as "and/or". So, when someone refers to "every single Russian/Soviet government", they are referring to every government that matches either of those adjectives. You see, the current Russian Federation has had, for all intents and purposes, two different governments, since Medvedev's time as President was really just a legal fiction. Prior to the current Russian Federation, and maybe you aren't picking up on this, Russ

    • These rebel leaders seem to not care that the majority of the ethic Russian civilians in their regions fled west when the war started, not east. These guys are no better than the Chechen leaders who are in the minority of their region but won only because they were backed by Putin.

    • The Russian government is worried about Russophobia. What reason is there that someone would be afraid of Russia? Can you think of anything?

      Incidentally, "protecting people speaking our language" is the exact same excuse Germany used to invade France.

  • But hate is not a diamond, and Russia is something almost nobody wants.

    I hope Ukraine has a path to victory. They will survive no matter what, that much is clear.

    • Re:If hate were a diamond, Russia would be a crown (Score:5, Interesting)

      by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Friday July 22, 2022 @01:35PM (#62725058) Journal
      I hope Ukraine has a path to victory.

      They do. Give them the weapons they ask for and it will become reality.

      Igor Gurkin recently made comments that the Russian army is losing more people to desertions and KIA than they are able to scrounge up as replacements. Even with replacements, those they're getting are barely able to fire a rifle. They're given a week of training [yahoo.com] before being sent to the front as cannon fodder.

      Expect to see some massive changes in the next 30 days. Sorry, can't say more for now, but you'll see the results.

      • And most of the soldiers are from poorer regions in Russia, usually not ethnically Russian either, and so they really don't have any motivation except for pay. Because it's declared as a "war", Russia can't use a draft. A draft isn't great, but I think one good thing a draft does is it makes your average citizen have a stake in the game so that they can start asking "why the hell are our kids dying in Vietnam?"

        (And when there is a draft, it just always select from the children of legislators first, but th

      • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

        by iggymanz ( 596061 )

        Nonsense, Russia doesn't care about losses at all, "we have blood to spare".

        Ukraine is losing, and these less than medium range weapons won't make a difference, money down the toilet. USA and allies were and are too cowardly to give the weapons that really would make a difference; for that matter too cowardly to do the things that would have kept Russia from ever starting an invasion.

        You're just aping the media that are propaganda pieces for U.S. government. Strange kind of virtual signalling.

        In a month y

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by leptons ( 891340 )
          How many long-range weapons given to Ukraine before Putin launches a nuke into Kiev? Maybe you haven't really thought any of this through.

          • If a single nuke is being used in this war, future stories about Moscow begin with "There once was a city..."

            • Worse is if the nuke is launched but doesn't work.

              • Considering what we've seen so far concerning the state of readiness of the Russian army, this is a quite possible scenario...

              • Re:If hate were a diamond, Russia would be a crown (Score:4, Insightful)

                by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday July 22, 2022 @07:07PM (#62725976)

                If there is a nuke launched at Kiev then there's a good chance that there will be a loud sussuration, as if billions of people were doing nothing but wringing their hands and whispering "at least it's not us."

                I know we've been raised to believe that all the nukes are on automatic control, it's part of the spectre of mutual assured destruction, but the nukes are all controlled by people. There isn't even a red button, and the nuclear football really has not a lot of stuff in it beyond codes on paper and binders with instructions and procedures.

                The real worry here is that Putin is irrational enough to send nukes after NATO, which greatly increases the odds of a response actually happening.

          • You seem to think that the use of a nuclear weapon wouldn't immediately result in absolute isolation from the rest of the world, regardless of economic damage to the rest of the world.

            Even China would turn their back, because the last thing they want is mushroom clouds rising in Russia, and blowing fallout over the border into China.

        • You're just aping the media that are propaganda pieces for U.S. government.

          He's aping the media propaganda by quoting Igor Girkin? That seems unlikely. The Strelkov warrior is correct in pointing out that Russia is running out of people in their army.

          The solution he proposes is to declare war, allowing the entire country to be mobilized. If that happens, then Russia's manpower problem is solved. But that would be unpopular in Russia, so it might not happen except as a last resort.

        • Nonsense, Russia doesn't care about losses at all, "we have blood to spare".

          Putler might not give a flying fuck but Russians sure do. They have no incentive to go die in Ukraine.

          Putler is too chicken shit for general mobilization. He knows full well going there will place his legitimacy at extreme risk.

          Ukraine is losing, and these less than medium range weapons won't make a difference, money down the toilet. USA and allies were and are too cowardly to give the weapons that really would make a difference; for that matter too cowardly to do the things that would have kept Russia from ever starting an invasion.

          Russia might have had a chance if they didn't royally fuck up their initial invasion. Now they are truly fucked. Much of their good shit has already been destroyed and they now have to beg for weapons and pull WWII vintage kit from storage while tricking their own people into goi

      • So... should I buy iodine pills or what?

      • The law is not an impediment in Russia. Putin can either ignore it or have the Duma rubber-stamp a change. What would a few million untrained draftees due to change the course of the war? The Russian weaponry doesn't work well. They can't maintain supply lines. Additional soldiers are just more mouths to whom you have to deliver expired MREs until they get killed.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        You do realize that Moscow is not the only source of propaganda, don't you? The Ukrainian parliament just had to fire one of their spokespeople. She'd been creating 'atrocity propaganda' since before the invasion, but her claim that Russian soldiers were raping babies was so unbelievable that not even the NY Times would reprint it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by stikves ( 127823 )

        As they lose they become more erratic.

        One one hand, they start lobbing missiles to city centers. Obviously trying to hit civilians, since there is no military establishment near any of their recent attacks.

        On the other hand, they ask for "ceasefire" and "stop operations as goodwill gesture", both of them are clear signs of them losing (they have no concept of a goodwill).

        It will only get worse for Russia. My only hope is, they lose quickly without too much civilian causalities.

  • What I am reading is that even Donbass residents are sick and tired of this shitshow and they need more undiluted propaganda about what would have happened had they not been "liberated" to stay on topic.

    • Russia walked in to Georgia, left when it was certain a guerilla war was beginning to take shape there, tried the same with Lithuania and left again. Drove armor to the Polish border, shots fired. Flew into Norway's airspace, patrolled for "terrorists" within their borders, planes disappeared people too. Drove into Serbia was "asked" to leave. Bosnia, the same. Invaded Chechnya, who asked for advanced NATO weapons, got the first truckload then surrendered "unconditionally" their only success so far and it w

    • What I am reading is that even Donbass residents are sick and tired of this shitshow

      The people in Donbas wanted to join Russia and leave Ukraine because they hoped in doing so they would avoid war in their homes. Unfortunately, Russia didn't do a good job defending them, and then assassinated their leaders [wikipedia.org]. People in the Donbas region now feel betrayed by Ukraine and Russia both.

      • No, a minority of people in Donbas wanted this. Just the rebels who were backed by Russian force from the first day they rebelled eight years ago. Those living in those areas are living under a regime run by warlords. When fighting breaks out, most of the civilians run west. It's not a hard choice: Ukraine had a better government, the levels of corruption there was going down, the local bosses were thugs and murderers, and Russia was essentially a dictatorship and highly corrupt still (but officially ap

        • There was an election right after Ukraine counter-attacked, and it showed heavily in the favor of joining Russia (or being independent).

          • And you trust those election results? They're just as rigged as the ones in Crimea.

            • It's a valid question, so I did some research to ensure that my memory was correct.

              There were some international polls done, which we can presume were reliable. At the beginning of April, the people in the region were opposed to breaking away from Ukraine. But by May, when the Ukraine army had attacked the Donbas, the people favored breaking away by ~60%. Wikipedia has more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

              This also matches the informal anecdotal video I've seen. The people there (understandably) want

      • What I am reading is that even Donbass residents are sick and tired of this shitshow

        The people in Donbas wanted to join Russia and leave Ukraine because they hoped in doing so they would avoid war in their homes. Unfortunately, Russia didn't do a good job defending them, and then assassinated their leaders [wikipedia.org]. People in the Donbas region now feel betrayed by Ukraine and Russia both.

        The people in Donbas wanted to not be murdered. Pre-2014 they probably were pro-Russian, but when "volunteers" from the Russian military invaded and put local gangsters in charge their political beliefs were irrelevant. Instead they did what most people would do in the same situation, kept their heads down and tried not to be murdered for not being pro-Russian enough.

        Right now Russia is forcibly conscripting them and using them as cannon fodder, which of course will make their eventual re-integration into U

  • Every result was "Is Potato" anyway...

  • According to international law, only 1 country is required to recognize an independent state. LNR and DNR have been recognized by 3 countries already.

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