Saudi Arabia Plans IPO of $500 Billion For Its Megacity 'Neom' (arabianbusiness.com) 163
Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman said they are planning an initial public offering of the Kingdom's $500 billion megaproject Neom as soon as 2024. Arabian Business reports: Talking to reporters in Jeddah, the crown prince said the Kingdom is setting aside $80 billion for Neom Investment Fund, where it would invest in companies that agree to operate in the futuristic city, Bloomberg has reported. The announcement was witnessed by global investors including Bridgewater Associates founder Ray Dalio, Tim Collins of Ripplewood, Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal and Kuwaiti retail billionaire Mohammed Alshaya.
The Saudi crown prince also unveiled funding details of Neom. First phase, which runs until 2030, will cost 1.2 trillion riyals, with about half of that covered by the Public Investment Fund. Officials will then seek to raise another 600 billion riyals from other sovereign wealth funds in the region, private investors in Saudi Arabia and abroad, and the planned IPO on Tadawul. The IPO, which could happen by 2024, will add more than 1 trillion riyals to the Kingdom's stock market, the crown prince noted. In addition to the news about the IPO, a teaser video was released, revealing the design for The Line: a "vertical city" some 500 meters tall, 170 kilometers in length, and covered in mirrors.
"Although it looks like a wall, The Line is actually supposed to be comprised of two huge parallel buildings, connected via walkways and divided into neighborhoods that are supposed to offer all the amenities of city life within a five-minute walking distance," reports The Verge.
"Vegetables will be 'autonomously harvested and bundled' from community farms; 'a high-speed train will run under the mirrored buildings'; the Line will include a stadium 'up to 1,000 feet above the ground,' and there'll be a marina for yachts under an arch between the buildings." A report from the Wall Street Journal in 2019 also noted robots will outnumber humans and hologram teachers will education genetically-enhanced students.
The Saudi crown prince also unveiled funding details of Neom. First phase, which runs until 2030, will cost 1.2 trillion riyals, with about half of that covered by the Public Investment Fund. Officials will then seek to raise another 600 billion riyals from other sovereign wealth funds in the region, private investors in Saudi Arabia and abroad, and the planned IPO on Tadawul. The IPO, which could happen by 2024, will add more than 1 trillion riyals to the Kingdom's stock market, the crown prince noted. In addition to the news about the IPO, a teaser video was released, revealing the design for The Line: a "vertical city" some 500 meters tall, 170 kilometers in length, and covered in mirrors.
"Although it looks like a wall, The Line is actually supposed to be comprised of two huge parallel buildings, connected via walkways and divided into neighborhoods that are supposed to offer all the amenities of city life within a five-minute walking distance," reports The Verge.
"Vegetables will be 'autonomously harvested and bundled' from community farms; 'a high-speed train will run under the mirrored buildings'; the Line will include a stadium 'up to 1,000 feet above the ground,' and there'll be a marina for yachts under an arch between the buildings." A report from the Wall Street Journal in 2019 also noted robots will outnumber humans and hologram teachers will education genetically-enhanced students.
Who in their right mind (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as the West needed the oil they were helping the ruling family whatever it wants to maintain stability of oil supply. The moment West does not need its oil, they will let that country stew in own juices, sort of what we do to places like Sierra Leon or South Chad. But unlike these impoverished countries Saudi Arabia has raked up a steady stream of enemies, both in the West and also in the Indian sub continent. So they will also chip to make their misery worse once oil loses its importance.
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Problem being that "West" doesn't really need their oil any more. North America as a unit is net exporter already, and most of Europe could do on Norwegian, British and Russian supplies if they really wanted to cut Saudis off completely. This was in fact mostly done already in late 2010s. At that point the main destination for Saudi oil has been PRC and other East Asian powerhouses such as Japan and South Korea because of aforementioned facts.
Sure thing Luckyo (Score:2, Insightful)
Problem being that "West" doesn't really need their oil any more.
And yet every time there's a global hiccup. America goes cap in hand to the Saudis and asks them to pump more oil.
Maybe you didn't notice but oil is a globally traded commodity. How much Saudi Arabia pumps has a big affect on the price of oil. Whether you're buying Saudi oil or not.
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If you are referring to pipelines from Canada/Mexico, the alternative isn't rickety trains. As far as I know the freight rail infrastructure for transporting oil is in pretty good shape and tanker trucks also work.
If we are going to import Canadian/Mexican oil, pipelines are the most efficient infrastructure. And it would make sense for our country to have consistent long-term energy policies.
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On the other hand, it's only really low-quality oil like Canadian tar sands that isn't profitable to bring via other mechanisms. If our long-term energy plan is to rely on tar sands oil, we have a bigger problem.
I fully agree that we need a long-term plan to replace our fossil energy baseload with carbon-free sources. My roadmap would be to go nuclear. What's yours? Would it be the same kind off wishful thinking that has just failed so horribly in Germany?
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The US government can (and should) provide price su
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For those of us who don't listen to right-wing alternative-facts media, could you please explain your post?
Then agree with the parent poster's point.
If we are going to import Canadian/Mexican oil, pipelines are the most efficient infrastructure. And it would make sense for our country to have consistent long-term energy policies.
So what was the point of your initial insult? Did you take umbrage at leaky trains?
Re:Sure thing Luckyo (Score:4)
Russia didn't cut supply so much as West cut it off through both sanctions and voluntary pull outs of all majors. Russians really wanted to keep exporting. They still do in fact, it's just that global oil flows got redirected from their status quo of "Saudis send everything East, Russians send most of it West" to "Saudis send some more North, Russians send some more South"
Iran's threats of "blocking the gulf" were actually mostly ignored lately if you haven't noticed, because that would block... Chinese oil shipments..
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Did you notice WHEN that started? Did something else happen?
Re: Sure thing Luckyo (Score:2)
It started before my time, so no I don't remember when it started.
For as long as I can remember whenever oil prices went up, the US would ask them to pump more, at least back to the 90s.
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And we've gone from "what happened in last six months that was exceptional to the trend" to "but things that happened almost half a century ago".
Because if you actually look at context provided, my point would become clear. It's interesting how we've now had both extremes of "very recent events" and "events very long ago during a completely different geopolitical era" just to avoid addressing "recent trend until certain massive change six months ago".
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Here's a hint, it has zero impact on oil production because they are leases that oil companies weren't even using. Even if they intended to use it, you're still talking at least over a year before any oil flows so no, domestic oil production was not cut at all and in the previous year Biden's administration handed out more leases than any administration before him.
People say the same thing about Keystone, it cut oil supply even though the pipeline wasn't even 50% done and would still be a couple of years a
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How long do you think it takes to retool a refinery to change blend it's working on? How long does it take to build one from a scratch?
The main reason for increase in refining margins that happened during last year was specifically because Green movement convinced moneyed interests that "oil is a thing of a past" in last decade. Which resulted in consistently lowered investments into refining capacity. Which resulted in reduction of said capacity.
Normally demand corrected for this, but we had two years of c
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem being that "West" doesn't really need their oil any more. North America as a unit is net exporter already, and most of Europe could do on Norwegian, British and Russian supplies if they really wanted to cut Saudis off completely.
Uhhh have you been living under a rock for the past 6 months?
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Problem being that "West" doesn't really need their oil any more. North America as a unit is net exporter already, and most of Europe could do on Norwegian, British and Russian supplies if they really wanted to cut Saudis off completely.
Uhhh have you been living under a rock for the past 6 months?
Almost 70% of Saudi oil exports goes to Asia with Japan and China taking the top importers (21 and 17% respectively) Third is the US with 15%. The first European nation on that list is France, with 2.2% of the exports.
Europe has already pretty much cut the Saudis out of oil imports, the problem is that France and the UK are selling weapons to Saudi Arabia (as are the US) and want to keep doing so.
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Have you been born six months ago? Or does decade before last six months magically not matter for a long term strategic issue?
Re: Who in their right mind (Score:5, Informative)
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First of all, in the last legislative package on oil trade president got the right to disconnect US oil sector from international oil sector with a stroke of a pen. That was the one that repealed the long standing oil export ban from the previous oil crisis and enabled US oil and gas sector to become major exporters. This connected US market to global market when it came to oil and gas products.
Second, there are plenty of domestic policies that government(s) have to handle oil pumping. For example, Californ
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Why this weird offtopic red herring where you pretend that Federal government is the only government with legislative power in US?
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"Biden started shutting down domestic oil as soon as he got into office, but two years ago the US was completely energy independent."
I assure you that Biden did not "shut down domestic oil" and also that he did not make California law.
Sadly there is so much politics mixed into this thread that one can't talk about actual energy policy. Sigh.
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I will once again point you toward point one which you left unaddressed which was in fact Biden's doing, and has severe impact for long term energy security of North American continent. In this regard, yes he has shut down domestic oil interests in long term. Harshly at that. And if you look at the reasons why, it's all talking points of the modern cult of Mother Gaia.
I will also reiterate that regulation works on both state and federal level. There's a reason why California doesn't have fracking, even thou
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The government controls oil leases, and when he canceled Keystone XL, Biden also canceled new leases in many of the oil carrying federal lands. He then went on to point to the leases that aren't currently being exploited, as if every piece of land equally has oil, and as if the EPA under his people isn't slow walking all oil pipeline requests on any oil that was found during exploration. Effectively, this has caused a slowdown in the rate of increase of oil production. He then has repeatedly blamed the o
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Your assertion about the oil industry, in general, though is a bit incorrect. It costs money to ramp-up (and ramp-down) production. Many oil producers are anticipating a recession and don't want to pay to increase production just in time to have to wind it down.
Production that can be started easily has been sta
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before the pandemic, the slope was much greater than it is after the pandemic, that is due to policy, not due to the oil industry, as the oil industry would gladly pump every gallon right now as it is worth so much currently.
No they wouldn't. Increasing the supply will decrease prices, and why would they do this if they're making record profits right now.
If pumping more were such a good idea now, why isn't OPEC doing it? Is Biden stopping them too?
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All oil are not equal. Saudi oil is very cheap to extract (avoiding the term produce) and is more suitable for gasoline making. American oil is still profitable but suitable for other uses. If oil exporters disturb the supply, they can make more money in the short term.
Soviet union collapsed because Saudi Arabia crashed the price of oil in the 1980s. Lacking the oil revenue USSR collapsed. Putin remembers that and that maniac is out for revenge. But as far as oil is con
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Russia can afford to undercut Saudi, sell it below its extraction + appeasement cost.
You may want to check the price of appeasement in Russia too.
Even with the higher price and higher oil income. The amount of extra money Russia has to spend to keep the economy afloat, means they are running at a loss. Their currency reserves are falling despite increased oil income.
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This doesn't reflect reality of extraction costs at all. Russian old "easy" fields are running dry and many of them are dry already. Their new fields are much more difficult, and effectively only came online because of international majors coming in. If memory serves me, they only came back to their USSR levels of oil production in 2018 or 2019.
International majors were among the first companies to pull out. When Halliburton, Shumberger and Baker&Hughes pull out on moral ground, you know there's an actu
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As cheap as Saudi extraction costs are, oil wells don't drill themselves with "appeasement" whatever that means in this context. Same applies for setting and maintaining extraction hardware, pipe lines to coasts and supertanker loading facilities.
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Russia budget deficit and oil price graph [box.com]
Where Russia's appeasement money is going [box.com]
Russia foreign exchange reserves [box.com]
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If you actually want more information on some specific part of my statement, and that isn't "five minutes on google to find out" kind of information, I can probably help.
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Why so much panicked shit flinging all of the sudden on this topic? Are PRC leaders that afraid of what's coming?
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They have enough money to build desalination plants.
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:4, Insightful)
They have enough money to build desalination plants.
Saudi Arabia has enough water for everything except agriculture.
Desalination for agriculture is economic insanity. It is twenty times cheaper for them to buy wheat than to grow it with desalinated water.
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you might find this interesting as it contradicts your statement,
https://seawatergreenhouse.com... [seawatergreenhouse.com]
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:5, Insightful)
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The process uses uses evaporativ desalinization, not reverse osmosis.
you didn't actually read anything on the the linked page did you?
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:4)
UPDATE
I just took my own advice and re-examinded the stuff on the site.
When I originally found the site and bookmarked it there was no mention of anything about reverse osmosis. Guess they reworked the concept and the image.
Apologies for the misunderstanding on my part, I'll update my notes with regards to the site so I won't repeat my error in the future.
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:4)
Anyway thanks for the update.
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That is interesting, but there is no information in the link about cost.
The projects listed are small greenhouses growing produce for local consumption. Each project is less than a hectare.
Saudi Arabia needs millions of hectares of wheat to feed itself.
Perishable produce is expensive to transport. Wheat is cheap to transport.
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Saudi Arabia has enough water for everything except agriculture.
Desalination for agriculture is economic insanity. It is twenty times cheaper for them to buy wheat than to grow it with desalinated water.
Only if Saudi Arabia is comfortable relying on external sources for their food supply -sources which can be cut off/reduced or change prices at any time.
That doesn't seem like a good strategic plan.
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Only if Saudi Arabia is comfortable relying on external sources for their food supply
If they are worried about a supply disruption, stockpiling extra food in warehouses and silos is more cost-effective than building de-sal plants.
Re:Who in their right mind (Score:4, Insightful)
What invest in a city in a desert during a drought that's likely to continue and to get worse?
For the same reason people invest in any other dumb idea: because someone who was already rich pitched it to them.
Recently on Facebook I've been seeing this ad campaign for a cooler (as in, the things you fill with ice and beer and bring to the beach) with a water pump, heat exchanger, and a fan with a hose attached to it. A quick cursory examination of the math [wikipedia.org] will tell you you're not going to get much cooling out of this thing before your ice melts (and worse, your beer gets warm). Despite the laws of thermodynamics giving this thing the middle finger, investors obviously dumped enough money into it that the company can afford to run plenty of annoying ads.
Earlier in today's Slashdot stories, there's that article [slashdot.org] about $21 million invested in literally nothing.
Really goes to show that you don't have to be all that smart to be rich, you just have to be rich.
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Yeah... at a what would appear to be a construction cost of ~$280 per square meter floor area. Good luck with that, it sounds more like a $10 Trillion project, or about 1/20 the size proposed.
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Yeah... at a what would appear to be a construction cost of ~$280 per square meter floor area. Good luck with that, it sounds more like a $10 Trillion project, or about 1/20 the size proposed.
What part of First phase confused you?
Total price was never mentioned. Nor the number of phases they are planning.
Re: Who in their right mind (Score:2)
I don't know, but Saudi Arabia is a net exporter of food crops, so I think they have their water management relatively well managed.
It could be that all non-arid areas are dedicated to agriculture and so it makes sense that developments for people would then be in the desert.
I'm also guessing this is part of the design with two parallel sets of highrises. In between, I'm guessing they'll have trees and shit, and this - along with shade - will help create an efficient micro-climate for living.
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And about half of it needs to stop in the next 10 years.
Unless you want catastrophic global warming.
Global warming is already going to be bad, thanks to people not paying attention or just deciding to party on despite knowing it was irresponsible, for about the last 30 years. But if we don't do the rapid transition mentioned above, it will be really hellish, globally eco-cidal, etc. etc. yada yada it's in the reports you can read for you
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We’ll survive as a species. Probably. But we’re so far past the 1.5C mark it’s not even funny. I hope I live long enough to be able to remind society that we visited the results on ourselves. The only hope is adaptation and break-neck technological development to help us cope when the consequ
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Yes there are of course petrochemical applications, which sequester the carbon and so can be continued, albeit it would be nice if we smartened up and stopped plasticizing the oceans.
Petrochemical applications are only going to be a fraction of current oil and gas demand.
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Instead, I'm in tune with the physics, chemistry, and systems science of the biosphere in which that human geopolitical world is embedded.
The human geopolitical world, in as much as it is at odds with its sustaining biosphere, is clinically insane (sociopathic - on a within-species and inter-species level, psychopathic (unable to understand or empathize with the consequences of its actions on others).
So no, I'm not in tune with tha
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We are already closely approaching 1.2C above pre-industrial temperatures.
The 1.5C target is what requires the depth and rapidity of emissions cuts that I mentioned above. In fact, as IPCC reports make clear, substantial negative emissions have to happen in addition by 2050 as well for 1.5 to be feasible. And by feasible, they mean something like a 50% chance of limiting to that temperature rise.
Even with the depth and rapidity of cuts I mentioned, we would be much more likely
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It's time to start buying limestone mines if you want to stop ocean acidification, build orbital solar shades to limit temperatures, desalination plants for water and zoos for ecological preservation. It's clear promises by some politicians aren't going to fix the problem, especially if they get voted out of office as soon as the emission cuts start hitting ordinary people's wallets.
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The problem is, worrying, and voting, about minor short-term wallet issues, most of which is FUD, you are thereby allowing, and responsible for, order-of-magnitude global financial impoverishmen
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The problem is, worrying, and voting, about minor short-term wallet issues, most of which is FUD
There it is, the political problem on the left: Not acknowledging that a green energy transition has costs. Renewables are indeed becoming cheaper, but not if you include storage. And there's an upfront investment necessary. For solar it would be on the order of $3 trillion USD for the entire US (energy mix [eia.gov], solar cost [nrel.gov]). Throw in storage and we're at $5 trillion, or 25% of the annual GDP, $25,000 per working-age adult in the US.
Someone has to bear that cost and bear it today. And it won't be the billionaire
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What exactly does drought mean for a desert?
Is the sand even sandier?
Here. [sciencing.com]
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Sunlight sure, but wind brings sand.. Sand covers and scratches solar panels, massively reducing their efficiency.
Dystopia (Score:2)
That thing looks dystopian and isolated..
Re:Dystopia (Score:5, Insightful)
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But very practical things like waste management for 9 million people come to mind. It is not a linear problem. A few people on land use chamber pots. A family on a farm can have self contained septic system. 9 million people living in a cage need a fool proof septic system.
One imagines it will quickly evolve a class system, where servants are literally on the ground while the upper crust is established more at the upper levels.
And they must assume they are going to de
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ah you translated autonomous correctly.
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Mrs youngone does too, because in the 1990's when she was working as a registered nurse in London, she took up a 3 month contract in a Saudi hospital due to the huge salary they offered.
She, along with about a dozen or her colleagues wound up getting taxis to the airport and hopping on the first flight they could to get out of there after one of their number was raped by a patient.
The British Embassy told them they should do that, as the Saudi police wou
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"Futuristic"...they'll use lasers for beheadings? (Score:5, Insightful)
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They need a token (Score:2)
Releasing this as a cryptoasset and somehow tying Elon Musk into it will really attract the sort of people that like throwing money into moonshot blackholes.
Whatever you do (Score:2)
Star Trekkin' across the Saudiverse (Score:2)
Didn't someone there brag about his hotel or whatever having "24th century technology" a few years back?
Rich boys blowing money on insane dreams (Score:2)
In other news, the sun rose this morning.
If it actually works (Score:4, Funny)
heads will roll.
solution without a problem (Score:5, Informative)
Looking at the concept renderings, the surrounding desert terrain is limitless. Living expenses for the vertically-stacked residents will be much higher than if they chose to live elsewhere horizontally spread out. Keep in mind, this is an IPO for investing in the construction-- those investors are expecting to see a return and that comes from charging premium rent.
Soccer stadium 1,000 feet off the ground? Something tells me $500,000 billion isn't nearly enough to build this thing.
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The vertical aspect isn't necessarily true; sure, you pay more for structure but you gain a few things back in terms of transportation efficiency, opportunities for closed-loop processes, etc. Sure, a slab on grade is a cheaper building, but once the building hits a certain size then logistics become a controlling factor. You also have less window line, which matters for some things.
As for the stadium... well, I'd call that an artist's rendering and not reality.
Is it a good investment? With this kind of
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I agree with you 1000% on the efficiencies offered. The challenge I'm laying out here is that the investors are not counting those efficiencies towards their return and the residents who will have to pay substantially higher rent may not see the cost/benefit ratio attractive enough to justify. Those efficiencies are what motivates a city to implement zoning and planning-- they see a bene
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The benefit of traditional cities and zoning is that it responds to the time domain. This is the opposite: build it and they will come. MBS wants to build a 9-million person city in one shot. Ultimately this would not be the first time it has been done in the Middle East... just at a faster pace.
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If a city is *planned* to be vertical there are things you can do that wont happen in a planned-horizontal city. As an example you could require that buildings have elevated walkways between them high enough that you don't impede the passing of traffic at ground level. Public transit could also be put at a similar elevat
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True fact, women are so discriminated against there, the new Mecca-Medina railroad received 28,000 applications from Saudi women hoping for 1 of 30 open jobs [bbc.com].
Hologram teachers, eh? (Score:2)
"hologram teachers will education genetically-enhanced students."
Well, if one of their subjects is English, I just hope they do a better job at it than whomever taught the language to the submitter.
More interesting than Trump's wall (Score:2)
Neom, future Islam city (Score:2)
It looks a little bit like a.... (Score:2)
...eh, a very long, bright, thin blade cutting across the country.
Watch the concept video and you'll see what I mean.
Normally we build phallic symbols but this one has a "surgical" theme.
So, its an arcology? (Score:2)
I hope they remember to distort the mirrored sides. I wouldn't want to be blinding every ship passing through the Gulf.
BIG mirror you say? (Score:2)
High rise building in the desert (Score:2)
George Romero did it first. (Score:2)
Land of the Dead [wikipedia.org]
A better name (Score:3)
Hah (Score:2)
I hear there's a sucker born every day. MBS has a nice sense of humor. Maybe a bit dark.
Obviously a dumb idea (Score:2)
I wonder (Score:2)
I wonder who will be the investors in this scheme. Warren Buffet? Norwegian Sovereign Fund? Rich Saudis gently encouraged? Difficult to say...
Tunnels under structure? (Score:2)
Error, when MBS needn’t- desert on both sides = easy access, easy diggin’s.
An omission such as this flaws the foundational premise unless the buildings are an illusion for impenetrable breach walls sans motes. Or desert==mote.
Desert dystopian, detrimental reliant public space, privately owned and built as a profit-stake monument for 1% population on planet.
Love to see worker, concubine housing accommodations.
Saudi still support public execution! (Score:2)
Climate (Score:2)
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Religious nonsense is extremely useful. Especially if you look toward long term, i.e. you need to actually keep having children as a nation to have a chance of existing in the future.
Re:teach what? (Score:4, Insightful)
https://www.newsweek.com/marjo... [newsweek.com]
Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican representative from Georgia, has defended her endorsement of "Christian nationalism" after the term "she is a Nazi" trended on Twitter.
She's saying the quiet part out loud now.
https://people.com/politics/re... [people.com]
Rep. Lauren Boebert Calls Separation of Church and State 'Junk,' Says Church Should Direct Government
None of their supporters are bright enough to see these women (and the rest of the party) are just the taliban without the head coverings. Hell Boebert got knocked up in high school and only completed her GED right before being elected. But I guess if you're pandering to her base then fancy book learnin' from woke liberal colleges isn't something you hold in high regards.
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“Women are valuable. Very valuable. They’re valuable because they MAKE MEN. They need to be respected, protected and controlled. By MEN”
I’m paraphrasing of course, but the wording was quite clear on gender roles. Right in their constitution.