'The E-Bike Is a Monstrosity' (theatlantic.com) 176
In an article published by the Atlantic, writer and Director of Film and Media Studies at Washington University in St. Louis, Ian Bogost, claims e-bikes have an identity crisis and "represent not the fusion of two modes of transit, but a conflict between them." Here's an excerpt from his report: I'd like to drive less, exercise more, commune with nature, and hate myself with a lesser intensity because I am driving less, exercising more, and communing with nature. One way to accomplish all of these goals, I decided earlier this year, was to procure an e-bike. (That's a bicycle with a motor, if you didn't know.) I could use it for commuting, for errands, for putting my human body to work, and for reducing my environmental impact. A cyclist I have never been, but perhaps an e-biker I could become. [...] But I've been trying to live with one, and brother, I've got some bad news. These things are freaks. Portraying e-bikes as a simple, obvious, and inevitable evolution of transportation (or even of bicycling) doesn't fully explain these strange contraptions. The same was said of Segways, and then of Bird scooters, and both flamed out spectacularly.
Bikes have always worn many helmets: cycling as exercise, cycling as leisure, cycling as sport, cycling as transit. These roles often conflict with one another. The commuter sneers at the spinner, who pedals pointlessly to nowhere. The leisure-rider spurs the Lycra-racer, who endangers pedestrians and inspires drivers to hate cyclists. E-bikes continue, and worsen, that disorder by jumbling up aspects of bicycles and motorcycles. Strapping a motor to a bike turns out to alter more than just speed and exertion. It produces a chameleon that takes on, under various conditions, both the best and worst features of a variety of transportation technologies. The result is less an evolution of a two-wheeled machine than a pastiche of the many things such a device represents. It's a monster made from bicycles and motorbikes.
Here's what I mean: A bike can be exerting to ride, which is both a feature and a defect. Biking to the store or office offers an opportunity to move one's body instead of spreading it into the seat of a car (or even a train). Depending on distance and terrain, biking can raise your heart rate, making it an effective workout. But working out can make you sweaty and smelly, a feature incompatible with using a bike for commuting (or even errands). E-bikes, by contrast, allow a motor to assist the rider, reducing exertion and thereby delivering you to the office or cheesemonger with a dry brow and dry armpits. But in exchange for that polish, an e-bike rider gets less exercise than the equivalent trip under full pedal. [...] The truth will differ based on circumstance, but the result is the same: a weird ambiguity. An e-bike sure seems like a way to cheat at exercise, even if it really facilitates it. [...] Further reading: America Has An E-Bike Problem That Can't Be Solved With More E-Bikes (Motherboard)
Bikes have always worn many helmets: cycling as exercise, cycling as leisure, cycling as sport, cycling as transit. These roles often conflict with one another. The commuter sneers at the spinner, who pedals pointlessly to nowhere. The leisure-rider spurs the Lycra-racer, who endangers pedestrians and inspires drivers to hate cyclists. E-bikes continue, and worsen, that disorder by jumbling up aspects of bicycles and motorcycles. Strapping a motor to a bike turns out to alter more than just speed and exertion. It produces a chameleon that takes on, under various conditions, both the best and worst features of a variety of transportation technologies. The result is less an evolution of a two-wheeled machine than a pastiche of the many things such a device represents. It's a monster made from bicycles and motorbikes.
Here's what I mean: A bike can be exerting to ride, which is both a feature and a defect. Biking to the store or office offers an opportunity to move one's body instead of spreading it into the seat of a car (or even a train). Depending on distance and terrain, biking can raise your heart rate, making it an effective workout. But working out can make you sweaty and smelly, a feature incompatible with using a bike for commuting (or even errands). E-bikes, by contrast, allow a motor to assist the rider, reducing exertion and thereby delivering you to the office or cheesemonger with a dry brow and dry armpits. But in exchange for that polish, an e-bike rider gets less exercise than the equivalent trip under full pedal. [...] The truth will differ based on circumstance, but the result is the same: a weird ambiguity. An e-bike sure seems like a way to cheat at exercise, even if it really facilitates it. [...] Further reading: America Has An E-Bike Problem That Can't Be Solved With More E-Bikes (Motherboard)
Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Ugh (Score:5, Interesting)
It's crap really. An e-bike is a decent way to forgo the problems with parking in bigger cities, so long as you don't go to the shitty part of town where bike theft is common. Or better, get a folding ebike and carry it.
Re: Ugh (Score:2)
I see the article as a monstrosity based on north American preconceptions and street designs.
Re: Ugh (Score:4)
Except TFA doesn't even mention any American preconceptions.
What TFA says is e-bikes give you less exercise but you don't get sweaty, so that is ambiguous and ambiguity is bad and therefore e-bikes are bad.
That is just idiotic blathering.
Re: Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
I have one of those. It's about 60 pounds, so the exercise part is covered too, just not while riding.
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:2)
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Fixies are the bikes for large, densely built but flat cities. They don't work for mountainous terrains, and they have their limits in the country, where you might have to pedal against the wind for longer stretches.
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:2)
5,000 feet? Do you live at Everest base camp? If the high point is on one side of town, and your city is 20 miles wide, that's an average of about 5% grade........
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:2)
The kind of ebike I have is foldable. I've got a normal bike as well. If I want to get exercise or cruise around town or the beach, that's what the regular bike is for. If I want to ride to work, that's what the ebike is for, because my employer pays $150/month in addition to your regular pay if you forgo a parking pass, plus you get at least some exercise on it.
That and foldable bikes without a motor kind of suck. They have smaller wheels and sit lower to the ground, so they're a lot less efficient to peda
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Better workout that a multi geared bike, much less an electric.
Lol, if I wanted a workout I wouldn't get an e-bike. Instead, I'd drive to the gym.
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Shouldn't you simply get a normal bike, get fresh air and see nature instead of polluting the air while driving to the gym to use a stationary bike that goes nowhere and is boring as fuck?
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:3)
A stationary bike is not boring if you watch or read while using it. I tend to have a TV show that I only watch while exercising, for motivational reasons. I went through the Expanse and Space 1999(!) that way.
That said, my preference is still for outdoor biking over stationary.
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"Whenever I meet an electric bike on the trail I think, 'very authentic, looks almost like a real bike.'"
Because authenticity is the goal of every cyclist, right?
"...for less exercise."
e-bikes don't result in less exercise...unless that's what you want.
"Better workout that a multi geared bike, much less an electric."
A matter of perspective, also a worse workout than either of those. Gearing was developed for a reason.
"Whenever I meet an electric bike on the trail..."
If I met a 1980 Peugeot fixie on the tra
Re: It seems logical but... (Score:2)
Are you also a vegan who does crossfit? Do your "friends" keep track of how long it takes you to mention your "1980 Peugeot single-speed/fixie that you built" when you meet new people?
Congrats, you built a bike without most of the hard parts. Was it a fun afternoon?
Re: Ugh (Score:5, Informative)
It's also the most environmentally-friendly mode of personal transportation by far (unless you were already planning to exercise and decided to do so by walking/biking somewhere instead. Food-power is insanely inefficient, to the point that walking is roughly comparable to driving the average European car [nature.com] (give or take large margins in either direction, depending on your diet). Cycling is about twice the efficiency of walking, but that's still not great - only cyclist on the absolute most environmentally-friendly diet (which usually means a vegan on an unhealthy high carb / low vegetable diet) stands a chance at outperforming an electric car. And that's just the CO2, let alone the massive issues with habitat loss, water consumption, runoff, etc. Nothing has so heavily altered our planet, so heavily eliminated natural habitat, as agriculture and ranching. Nothing else even comes close.
But E-bikes combine the low energy demands of a bike with the high efficiency of an electric motor. So the energy consumed per km is way less than both electric cars and cyclists. A single square meter of solar panels is enough for a typical commute. Embodied energy isn't much more than that of an average piece of furniture. They really are superbly eco-friendly. So it's annoying to see someone bashing them for really stupid reasons like this.
Re: Ugh (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
We're in paradise. We apparently have no actual problems left to solve so we wank over this nonsense.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
In about a year after I got it I put over 1000 miles on it just in my small town. I adjusted myself to making it my primary transportation when staying in town. With panniers on the sides I could bring home a couple of grocery bags. When it was 100 F outside I'd ride to wineries to have a glass of wine and listen to music. Because I didn't arrive places all hot and sweaty I could dress for the destination, not the journey.
I didn't compare it to a bike, but to a car. I didn't have to find a place to park downtown on a weekend night. I could enjoy riding on country roads with the wind cooling me off better than the car with no A/C. I could go up any hill in the area without getting off to walk or becoming a soggy mess. While it's possible I got less exercise than a regular bike, I got *more* exercise than I got driving a car. I used less energy than driving a car. I took less parking space than driving a car. Visiting the next town over I could put it on the front rack on the bus and then ride it the remaining miles to my destination. (I refer to that as hybrid transportation)
The glass half empty people want to downplay an ebike's virtues compared to a non-electric bike and ignore it's virtues compared to a car.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
For real if I get an e-bike and pedal it for 2 minutes a year, that's 2 more minutes a year than I currently pedal a bike.
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in the Seattle area, if the hill our house is on existed in the Midwest there'd be a ski resort on it (not kidding). When my asthma woke up a decade ago I had to give up riding. An e-bike will let me start riding again, I'm looking forward to getting one for Christmas.
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea for fucking real. "Hot take: now that a few people are sometimes riding a bike somewhere, I wrote an article to purity spiral them and declare them No True Cyclists if they sometimes use the battery instead of their legs"
It's a full 360 degree retarded take.
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The whole concept of "Cyclists" vs "Bike Riders" seems to be a very American thing.
Over here, you just "Ride a Bike". The "Cyclists" are those on specially crafted bicycles with special gear doing 35+mph on the main roads. (Think "Tour de France"). Everyone else is just riding a bike, and there's none of the stigma and weirdness involved that seems so common in the US.
Re: Ugh (Score:2)
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It's just exercise snobbery. People who are really into fitness, at least in the US, seem to be particularly afflicted by this. I'm not going to deny that getting in good shape is an accomplishment, but too many people who do seem to get really way too into it. There are a lot of factors. There are the cliques that form with riding groups based on how fast/endurant you are and a sort of inherent competitiveness. There's also the equipment snobbery. Who has the nicest, lightest bike and accessories, etc. Aft
Re:Ugh (Score:5, Informative)
A bicycle with a motor is called a motorcycle
Nope. A motorcycle has no pedals and is not a bicycle. You HAVE to use the motor.
An e-bike has pedals and a motor. So you can pedal and use the motor as a boost, and recharge on the downhill sections instead of braking.
Disclaimer: I have an e-bike. But I am currently living and working in the Philippines where an e-bike makes much more sense than in America. Cars spend 99.9% of their time in bumper-to-bumper traffic jams, while e-bikes can weave thru.
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Informative)
Most e-bikes on the market today do not recharge on on downhill sections.
Regenerative braking has been used in experimental setups - in practical riding the amount of regeneration is around 5-10%. The consensus among designers seems to be that it's not worth the additional cost, complexity and weight.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Historically, a bicycle with a motor actually is called a moped or scooter. Those are still legally 'bikes', usually using bike infrastructure. A motor cycle is a two wheeled legally more or less car-like vehicle which is allowed to go places only cars can go, like motorways.
Re:Ugh (Score:4, Informative)
Actually motorized bicycles have existed for at least 40 years. I know because we had them in the 60s and 70s. You'd add a small gasoline engine with a friction wheel that drive the tire. It wasn't a scooter or moped. Those came later.
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Actually motorized bicycles have existed for at least 40 years. I know because we had them in the 60s and 70s. You'd add a small gasoline engine with a friction wheel that drive the tire. It wasn't a scooter or moped. Those came later.
I feel I should point out that the word "moped" is an abbreviation for "motor or pedal". It very explicitly means a pedal bicycle with an optional motor. The term transformed over time to mean a small motorcycle with a different type of seating. Under original definitions though, an e-bike is properly a moped.
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The etymology of the terms do not matter, a moped is NOT a "pedal bicycle with an optional motor." Also, a bicycle is NOT strictly a vehicle with two wheels, imagine that.
There are different classifications of vehicles, mopeds and bicycles (and motorcycles) are different classes. They are regulated differently because their use cases are different. e-bikes ARE bicycles with regard to their use cases, the terminology is not defined by their parts but by the function they provide.
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The etymology of the terms do not matter, a moped is NOT a "pedal bicycle with an optional motor." Also, a bicycle is NOT strictly a vehicle with two wheels, imagine that.
Well, let's look at how a few states define "moped":
New York:
New York law defines limited use motorcycles, which are commonly called "mopeds" or "motor scooters", as "limited use vehicles with two or three wheels."
California:
A moped in California is a vehicle with the following characteristics: Two or three wheels — four-wheeled vehicles are generally considered cars or off-road vehicles. An electric motor and automatic transmission. A moped may also include pedals, if it's not entirely propelled by its motor.
Texas:
First and foremost, how does Texas define a motorized scooter? Under Texas law, any vehicle with a 50cc engine or less is considered a moped, while any scooter with an engine larger than 50cc is considered a motorcycle.
Massachusetts:
A moped is defined as either a pedal bicycle with a helper motor or a non-pedal bicycle with a motor,
Arizona:
In Arizona, a vehicle is considered a moped if it meets all of the following criteria:
50cc or less
1.5 brake horsepower or less
25 mph maximum speed on flat ground
Two or three wheels
Pedals
Florida:
Florida Statute 320.01(27) classifies a moped as a two or three-wheeled vehicle with a seat or saddle, a motor, and bicycle-like pedals (which is the principal feature that distinguishes a moped from a motor scooter.
So, clearly the definitions are all over the place, and some explicitly or optionally require pedals. I will note that the definitions above are just partial excerpts, some of them include more conditions and/or exceptions and alternate definitions. Some consider a motorized skateboard to be a moped! Some consider mopeds a motorcycle and some do not. Some draw a clear distinction between a 'motor
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"Motorcycle" is a legally defined class of vehicle in many jurisdictions. An e-bike is not in that classification.
Your wordplay means nothing other than it exposes your bigotry.
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E bikes (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:E bikes (Score:5, Insightful)
> What else is this guy looking for?
Ad impressions on his shitty article.
=Smidge=
Author seems disassociated from his body (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, would the same author run every time he wanted to reach a destination as a pedestrian? No? Then why can he not use the same judgement that tells him to walk rather than run if arriving not "sweaty and smelly" at a destination is his preference?
As someone using a (non-e-)bike every day for commuting and all kinds of errands I can say for sure that it is quite easy to not drive "as fast as you can possibly go" on a bike, and arrive just as dry and relaxed as you would be after a relaxed walk over 1/5 the distance.
Re: Author seems disassociated from his body (Score:2)
Iâ(TM)m guessing you donâ(TM)t live anywhere particularly hilly or hot or humidâ¦
When I lived in Chicago, biking was no problem from an exertion point of view. The drivers were another issue.
Moved to a hilly city in the south, regularly biked ~6 miles to work and was a sticky mess every day. I could shower, so it was ok, but the stickiness was pretty much unavoidable.
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Iâ(TM)m guessing you donâ(TM)t live anywhere particularly hilly or hot or humidâ¦
You live under water, Jarjar, you don't-a know anything-a `bout it.
Re: (Score:3)
Try living in Seattle. I live on top of a 300 foot hill, and used to commute every morning to the top of the 480 foot hill on the other side of the valley. Only two miles but unless it was really cold out sweating was definitely going to happen.
Someone got out of the wrong side of bed (Score:2)
Spoiled Brat (Score:5, Insightful)
He wants to exercise, but not to sweat. He wants to commute easily but don't wants a motor. He wants a hybrid riding experience but don't wants the ride to be a mix of other machines.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
Exactly. What is he complaining about, exactly? That he can't make up his mind about what he wants?
It's simple: If you want more exercise, turn the motor down. If you want less exercise, turn the motor up.
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I know I'll never afford an electric vehicle. Living on SSI income of just over 11K/yr I drive a 1995 Chevrolet S10 with the 5 speed manual tranny which I paid $700 for and still had to finance with a signature loan at the bank. Plus the electric bill where I'm at costs more than the rent so I try not to plug anything extra into an outlet, and I flip the breaker on the water heater leaving it off except for an hour or 2 before baths.
Sucks being poor.
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In denial.
"...e-bike have a huge amount of oil products..."
LOL
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Article is a monstrosity (Score:5, Insightful)
.. it tries to tackle everything :-) And yes, the current wild-west situation with electric bikes is a mess.
A simpler approach is to ask what separate roles an e-bike can fill, and how to fit them to that purpose:
1) regular bikes with a motor to assist on hill climbs, headwinds, or when it is too hot & humid to pedal. They need to be speed-restricted so as to fit with existing cycle traffic and rules.
Europe and Australia have a simple approach to this: they must be limited to 250W and 25km/hr (16mph), and motor only only while pedals are turning.
2) An electric moped - the equivalent of a 50CC motorcycle or the old Vespas. Should be registered and the rider licensed like any motorbike, but at low cost. Able to keep up in suburban traffic, but banned from freeways etc. Following the same safety standards as gasoline-powered motorbikes.
3) recreational off-road bikes, MTBs motorised for the climb, or dirt/trail bikes. Regulated the same as internal-combustion versions, not allowed on public roads.
I don't really see any use cases for e-bikes that are not covered by the above, and thus can fit into an existing place in the rules.
What is much harder and more novel is the electric scooters that are plaguing city sidewalks, but also can be really useful, filling a gap between walking and e-bikes. Where I live they are trying to regulate them, with a 10km/hr limit on footpaths and 25km/hr on bike paths or local roads:
https://www.wa.gov.au/organisa... [wa.gov.au]
Re: (Score:3)
That's kind of what was done in the US though, officially at least. Isn't it?
You have class 1&2 e-bikes - under 20mph and 750W. Generally legally treated as bicycles. I'm okay with the higher 750W limit what with serious hills existing, it's still like 1/4 the power of a 50cc engine (~2-9hp), and the speed limit is the important part. The 16mph limit might be a bit more reasonable for sharing paths - but since paths mostly don't exist in the US, that extra speed probably makes roads a little safer.
I
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We have cars on the road with 100hp engines and 1000hp engines. They have to obey the same laws. If someon
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Starting from a stop on a hill takes a great deal of power.
I think you mean torque, and electric motors should be good at that. But if you live in a very hilly place, get a mid-drive e-bike so the motor can use the gears, problem solved.
Why have restrictions to 20 mph on flat land but restrict power so that you can't do 10mph on a steep hill?
A 6% climb at 18km/hr and 100kg load takes 300W climbing power (1000BTU/hr for the metric-challenged), so 250W motor plus 100W pedalling. Not bad for a bicycle!
The idea is to take out the hills, so it feels like riding a normal bike on the flat.
If it's a cargo bike with either cargo or kids on board the 250w limitation is way too low.
It sounds like you want a cheap motorcycle that you pretend to get exercise on, rather
Re: (Score:2)
If they are limiting speed by limiting current draw then they will limit torque too. They should be limiting speed by limiting rpm of the wheels.
Limiting current draw would have the beneficial side effect of preventing a stalled or overloaded motor from burning out, or at least from burning out quickly. There in no counter EMF in a stalled motor, current draw goes way up, I^2R losses to heat go up higher and the magic smoke departs.
This is why they have fuses or should have.
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They should be limiting speed by limiting rpm of the wheels.
Obviously. What makes you think they are not? Hub motors have sensors as as an essential part.
Limiting current draw would have the beneficial side effect of preventing a stalled or overloaded motor from burning out,
yes, the controllers also do this. I expect they also limit initial torque for more powerful motors, to avoid breaking the dropouts.
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I own both a Mid drive mountain bike ebike and a Cargo bike. I live in the Alps, so soon as I leave the house it's steep, also, both bikes are limited to 250w and 25km/h.
With my daughter on t he back of the cargo bike, sure its a workout on the hills, but (even this summer in +37 celsius - i.e. very hot) both my wife and I find it fine for getting around , and my daughter absolutely loves it. Arrival is non-sweaty!
I wear a heart rate monitor and pretty much all the time I'm in Zone 2 (below 70% of max hear
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I live in the Alps, so soon as I leave the house it's steep, also, both bikes are limited to 250w and 25km/h.
Awesome. You sound like a poster child for e-Bikes! I love riding, so in the past would have not liked the idea of moving to the hills, let alone the Alps.
The limited eBike means riding is still both fun and provides exercise in the hills.
But I don't get the cargo-bike thing. I tried using a trailer and panniers to do the weekly shopping. It works, but so much easier to take the car as I can easily avoid peak traffic. Perhaps where you live, driving is bad 24/7, or you can't park?
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I agree they seem to want a motorcycle, and I'm all for speed limiter - but 250W does seem low.
The current US limits of 20mph/32kmh top assisted speed is on the fast side, and 750W might be a bit high as well- that's Olympic athlete class sustained power output, but it's really hard to deliver high low-end torque, e.g. for getting started uphill, without also delivering lots of power at higher speeds. Plus, we're American - flirting with excessive power and irresponsible behavior is kind of a cultural touc
Re:Article is a monstrosity (Score:5, Insightful)
I see two problems:
1) With lots of power electric cargo bikes and mock-motorcycles can be massive, which equals much more dangerous in a collision with a pedestrian. 750W is olympic-athlete class sustainable power output. If you need more than one horse to move your vehicle, it probably shouldn't be treated as an almost-pedestrian.
2) How many people with high-power 40mph dirt bikes do you honestly believe aren't using that speed when unobserved? And that speed both *radically* increases the damage in a collision (16x more than at 10mph), and dramatically increases the damage done to the trail. More weight and power both make large contributions as well.
It's a completely different class of vehicle. If you want to ride bike and walking trails, get a bike. If you want a dirt-bike class vehicle, don't ask to be allowed where those are specifically excluded. It's not that difficult.
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Yeah, that's just selfish. I'm all for allowing bikes on the sidewalk where dedicated paths aren't available, but if you're on a pedestrian path you should travel at pedestrian speeds. At least when pedestrians are around, or might step out from a blind corner or doorway - I've got no objection to pouring on the speed if you hit an empty stretch with good visibility.
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"I think the class 3 (28mph) and especially 4 (also over 750W) e-bikes really muddied the water though. Legally they can only be ridden off-road, ..."
I cannot speak to class 4, but class 3 is fully intended for use on roads and is widely legal for use on roads. Also, in the EU, trail e-bikes do not require any speed restrictions. They have them because, to be viable for sale, they need to be legal for riding on roads as well. The biggest complaint with trail e-bikes there is the unreasonable 16 mph limit
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Hmm, it looks like you're right - class 4 is off-road only, class 3 is street legal, but not allowed on multi-use paths (including, I would assume, sidewalks - though they're often off-limits anyway). Still, calling it a bike when it's not allowed on a lot of bike-friendly paths muddies things - I don't see any reason not to call it a instead. Just a name change, but less confusing for the 80% of the population that are either idiots, or willing to argue the case to get away with breaking the rules.
I don'
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I'm thinking of getting a e bike. Going to work is a nice ride. It's a bit long, but it's downward at the beginning and flat past 25%. The problem I have is with the way back. After almost an hour of slightly going up, the last 10 minute are straight up. And biking that up is real hard.
I may get an ebike at some point.
Comparison to Segway and Bird is ridiculous (Score:2)
The same was said of Segways, and then of Bird scooters, and both flamed out spectacularly.
Ri-di-cu-lous. "Bird" scooters were and are a huge international success (the brand Bird is irrelevant, talking about the concept in general). We could not see more of them in our cities, young people literally litter the streets with these rental scooters, they anger older people, cities start to regulate to avoid too much chaos.
Segway failed for being too early. What enabled the success of the scooters is inexpensive mass manufacture of batteries in Asia, and China scaling up impressively in manufacture a
Author may be on bath salts, why is this on /.? (Score:2)
What is this useless boring drivel doing here or anywhere?
Author should find another line of work not involving communication because they're terrible at it.
Opinion of yet another idiot. (Score:2)
This is simply one idiot's take on e-bikes. There were similarly a lot of people against automobiles, computers, and just about anything of high utility. I bet some idiots wrote columns complaining about how motorized lawnmowers are worthless.
I'm not saying this guy is wrong because there are lots of fads that have come and gone but I am saying there is no point in reading this drivel as it's merely one idiot's opinion. There was no poll, statistical analysis involved, no research proving a point, just o
What a prat (Score:2)
St. Louis (Score:2)
Hate myself less? Is this a writer thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
The "hate myself" idea seems to be a common writer phrase. Is self-hatred a common theme among writers?
Nobody loves a mutt (Score:2)
MY bicycle is a purebred... with papers!
I see e-bikes as a gateway into bicycling. For some people without the endurance to handle pedaling, especially those who are elderly or with physical disabilities, e-bikes just make it easier and more accessible.
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And bicycling is a gateway into e-biking for an aging population. For a portion of the population that are not cyclists, e-bikes may have appeal while standing no chance of being a "gateway" to anything else. E-bikes are useful in their own right, they are not defined by subordination to bicycles as you suggest.
Not gonna read this trash (Score:2)
He would hate himself with a lesser intensity? (Score:2)
"...hate myself with a lesser (sic) intensity because I am driving less..." He's really hitched his self-worth to some strange things.
The author has his head up his ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
Rode my ebike today. (Score:2)
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I'm really wanting an ebike to do the opposite. I'm happy to pedal to the trailhead, but I'm getting old, and those constant climbs on the single track are starting to kick my butt. I don't want the motor to climb for me, but some assistance would keep MTB attractive to me. Oddly, on the road bike, I'm not quite there yet. Road biking is easy compared to MTB, I suppose. (I'm there for fun in both cases, not a leet athlete.)
Weak Motorcycle Without The Responsibility (Score:3)
Motorcycles are awesome. Theyâ(TM)re also pretty deadly. For all those reasons, most governments require you to reach a certain age, undergo training, pass a test to prove you know how to ride safely, carry a license they can revoke if youâ(TM)re a tool, get insurance to cover your own injuries and harm to others, and - other than in FREEDOM! states - wear a helmet and possibly other armor.
E-bikes are lousy motorcycles. While they are annoyingly slow compared to even 125cc motorcycles, they still go more than fast enough for head injuries to be fatal, roadrash to suck hard, and eejits to ride in regular traffic as if they can keep up.
So, carrying the same dangers, what are the safety requirements?
â¦
Yeah, that would be the complete list.
Letâ(TM)s give them to twelve year olds, whoâ(TM)ll refuse to wear helmets as theyâ(TM)re uncool, whoâ(TM)ve never seen a driverâ(TM)s handbook let alone read one or taken any kind of test. Insurance? Nah, donâ(TM)t need that, Americaâ(TM)s got awesome universal healthcare and if they slam into someoneâ(TM)s parked car because a kid has no idea how to handle it, just sucks to be the car owner. License plate for accountability? Nope. If a cop does pull the rider over for being utterly dangerous, thereâ(TM)s no license to take away, no insurance premiums to go up, no accountability whatsoever.
What could go wrong?!
Re: (Score:2)
Motorcycles are awesome. Theyâ(TM)re also pretty deadly. For all those reasons, most governments require you to reach a certain age, undergo training, pass a test to prove you know how to ride safely, carry a license they can revoke if youâ(TM)re a tool, get insurance to cover your own injuries and harm to others, and - other than in FREEDOM! states - wear a helmet and possibly other armor.
E-bikes are lousy motorcycles. While they are annoyingly slow compared to even 125cc motorcycles, they still go more than fast enough for head injuries to be fatal, roadrash to suck hard, and eejits to ride in regular traffic as if they can keep up.
So, carrying the same dangers, what are the safety requirements?
â¦
Yeah, that would be the complete list.
Letâ(TM)s give them to twelve year olds, whoâ(TM)ll refuse to wear helmets as theyâ(TM)re uncool, whoâ(TM)ve never seen a driverâ(TM)s handbook let alone read one or taken any kind of test. Insurance? Nah, donâ(TM)t need that, Americaâ(TM)s got awesome universal healthcare and if they slam into someoneâ(TM)s parked car because a kid has no idea how to handle it, just sucks to be the car owner. License plate for accountability? Nope. If a cop does pull the rider over for being utterly dangerous, thereâ(TM)s no license to take away, no insurance premiums to go up, no accountability whatsoever.
What could go wrong?!
Fortnine did a good video on this, "Why Electric Bikes are More Dangerous than Motorcycles":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Literary Masturbation (Score:2)
An article written for the sole purpose of writing an article.
Luddite throws shoes into machinery (Score:2)
"Perfect is the enemy of good." (Score:3)
And more exercise than driving.
It's ironic whenever someone pulls up beside me in their car and asks, "isn't that cheating?"
Re: (Score:3)
It's a popular story to tell. I wonder if that has ever happened once.
I have about 10K miles on e-bikes over the past 5 years. I've never experienced a driver take notice that I'm on an e-bike that I know of, much less speak to me about it. What few times I've interacted with drivers, it's because I'm a cyclist, not an e-cyclist.
Regarding other cyclists, the only interest I've experienced on rides is curiosity, never a negative comment. I will definitely experience bigotry while NOT riding, and bike shop
Anyone else in Europe laughing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Then there is Oslo where for a long time we were held hostage by public transportation because even rolling out of bed required climbing a 100 meter cliff.
Then came electric bikes and eScooters and for the first time in modern history, we did not have to suffer Stockholm Syndrome in Oslo... which is a matter of national pride.
Now, the roads are covered through all seasons with driver eyesight level asses pumping away at peddles. My Segway electric kick scooter will pass 10000km next week.
WE ARE FREE!!!
And then there are Americans who won't even consider anything other than SUVs because they need a cubic meter of cabin space extra to hold their 5 liter High Fructose Corn Syrup laden Yeti Sippy cups.
Re: Anyone else in Europe laughing? (Score:2)
I have been riding an e-bike this summer (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
the company I work for started offering a sponsored lease program for "regular" and e-bikes five years ago. I took the offer, chose an e-bike in the 3kâ ballpark at a local dealer and paid around 70 a month off my salary (after taxes) over the next three years. The lease included insurance, break-down support if your bike would stop working in the middle of nowhere, spare parts up to a certain amount per year and so on.
After three years I could have either chosen a new bike for lease, returning the old
I think he's wrong but then again I don't have one (Score:2)
I almost bought one 5-6 months ago, but things came up and I didn't and in a couple of months the weather will turn cold and snowy, but maybe next spring.
The way I see it, this could serve about 90% of my needs which mainly consist of 5-10 mile trips around town. A few trips I might have to make are long enough that I might have to actually pedal, but those aren't frequent and I could use the exercise.
I might have to buy fewer bags of groceries and go to the store more often, but I'm not planning to go carl
Didn't get it (Score:2)
Pity about the crap article (Score:2)
There are some serious advantages to e-bikes. What is their impact on traffic congestion and parking? What is their impact on urban road traffic accidents? Before Covid lockdowns and working from home, parking at work was a major problem. I don't drive, but would sometimes get a lift with a friend. Then you get the grind through the traffic in the morning. If you set out a few minutes too late, you hit the traffic peak, and that adds say twenty minutes to the journey. Apart from anything else, this is a fri
About same physical activity (Score:3, Interesting)
When Honda came out with the 1990ish ebike (Score:4, Interesting)
When Honda came out with the 1990ish ebike ...they were surprised to find that little old ladies were their biggest customer segment. Cycling on the flat is easy enough, your granny can do that, but the first hill is enough to stop them. The fatass who wrote this article is just venting, keeping older people moving around independently is a good thing. No, I haven't got one, I have to cycle 5 miles on gravel roads to get anywhere, not happening.
Errm, ... Wutt? (Score:2)
This guy is talking utter gibberish and that he isn't familiar with bikes is blatantly obvious.
E-Bikes are a very good solution to a whole batch of problems:
- Traveling longer distances with them and transporting heavier loads or passengers is trivial compared to regular bicycles.
- They are doable as a main mode of transport and commuting for humanity without effing up the environment (cars aren't BTW, and that includes electric cars)
- They enable a bike-centric infrastructure in places that aren't all leve
Didn't ask! (Score:2)
Any askers?
load of garbage (Score:2)
At least he gets the point of being able to bike to the office without needing to take a bath upon arrival.
But he is looking for problems that are entirely on the users discipline.
I go mountain biking 2-3 times a week, for different medical reasons(heart birth defects, pain in joints etc), I can't do 4 days in a row with 5 hours active riding in an 9 hour day.
I really don't want an e-mtb because they are heavy and no fun going going down so I do what I can on my regular MTB.
But I have been going on 4 days v
Ian Bogost is just a sad man who hates cyclists (Score:2)
Ian Bogost is just a sad man who hates cyclists:
The leisure-rider spurs the Lycra-racer, who endangers pedestrians and inspires drivers to hate cyclists
Seriously? Pedestrians are almost always killed by drivers (with cars).
The rest of his mental diarrhoea? Not worth my time. I have a bicycle to ride
He has a point, but the author is a jerk (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
yet is heavier than several normal bicycles, usually has huge oversized wheels and tires
That must be a peculiarly US-centric thing, as in Europe they are pretty much standard bicycles in terms of wheels and tires and only weigh 50 to 70% more than a standard bicycle which is not 'several normal bicycles'
Re: (Score:2)
up to 20mph (which is fast even for a fit cyclist)
20 mph is not fast for a fit cyclist, 30 mph is. For a fit cyclist on a decent bicycle not encumbered with shopping, etc., 20 mph is pretty easy if you are making any effort to push it. I used to cycle around town on a 'racer' but did not wear lycra. I was only averagely fit and I have asthma and I could manage 20 mph if I put my mind to it, on the flat without wind. Even on a basic tourer or 'mountain bicycle' style with a work bag I could manage 12-15 mph, although I found that the tourer wheels were less
So many words (Score:2)
So little point.
An e-bike is bad because... it gives you the option of biking with less exercise?
I'm honestly not really sure what his point is.
A Twitter Take (Score:2)
"https://twitter.com/noahpinion/status/1565427321095434241?s=21&t=WxWbeDOPSFcFGMipT9qZLw"
This seems about right.
1. They're easier to ride than normal bikes
...WTF did I just read???
2. People are paying a lot for e-bikes
3. E-bikes are faster than normal bikes
4. E-bikes are quiet
Re: (Score:2)
I have two bad knees, throttles are cool.
Re: (Score:2)