TikTok Won't Commit To Stopping US Data Flows To China

TikTok repeatedly declined to commit to US lawmakers on Wednesday that the short-form video app will cut off flows of US user data to China, instead promising that the outcome of its negotiations with the US government "will satisfy all national security concerns." From a report: Testifying before the Senate Homeland Security Committee, TikTok Chief Operating Officer Vanessa Pappas first sparred with Sen. Rob Portman over details of TikTok's corporate structure before being confronted -- twice -- with a specific request. "Will TikTok commit to cutting off all data and data flows to China, China-based TikTok employees, ByteDance employees, or any other party in China that might have the capability to access information on US users?" Portman asked.

The question reflects bipartisan concerns in Washington about the possibility that US user data could find its way to the Chinese government and be used to undermine US interests, thanks to a national security law in that country that compels companies located there to cooperate with data requests. US officials have expressed fears that China could use Americans' personal information to identify useful potential agents or intelligence targets, or to inform future mis- or disinformation campaigns. TikTok does not operate in China, Pappas said, though it does have an office in China. TikTok is owned by ByteDance, whose founder is Chinese and has offices in China. [...] Pappas affirmed in Wednesday's hearing that the company has said, on record, that its Chinese employees do have access to US user data. She also reiterated that TikTok has said it would "under no circumstances ... give that data to China" and denied that TikTok is in any way influenced by China. However, she avoided saying whether ByteDance would keep US user data from the Chinese government or whether ByteDance may be influenced by China.

Re:

[HiThere]

Left winger? Was that a typo, because the rights of corporations is more a right wing position.

Re: FREEZE PEACH

[todmanic]

So is freeze peach, Empty Green.

Of course TikTok

[wakeboarder]

is influenced by Chinese government. You can't even take a dump or buy toilet paper without the Chinese government knowing about it (and affecting your citizen score). There is no way the Chinese would pass up on using Tik Tok data for whatever purpose suits them.

Re:

[ffkom]

... and if you did not sleep through all of the Snowden document leaks, you would also know that Microsoft, Google, Facebook etc. play the same role for US government agencies.

Re:

[arglebargle_xiv]

Interesting that the story just before this one was:

Details of the database were revealed Thursday in a letter to CBP Commissioner Chris Magnus from Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), who criticized the agency for "allowing indiscriminate rifling through Americans' private records" and called for stronger privacy protections. The revelations add new detail to what's known about the expanding ways that federal investigators use technology that many Americans may not understand or consent to. Agents from the FBI and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, another Department of Homeland Security agency, have run facial recognition searches on millions of Americans' driver's license photos. They have tapped private databases of people's financial and utility records to learn where they live. And they have gleaned location data from license-plate reader databases that can be used to track where people drive.

I really don't care if some random bureaucrat in Bejing knows I watched a Tiktok pratfall video last night when the USG is busy building up a massive database of everything I, and everyone I know, does.

Re:

[andydread]

Except when Chinese agents approach people to spy on their government or the they will report them for being a member of [insert antigov group here] because of the content they have been consuming and people you are connected to. And that's just me pondering things i'm sure the Chinese intelligence agencies can do a lot more pondering to find ways to use that data to coerce people to spy for them or else.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[layabout]

take a dump or buy toilet paper

Here is your poop word of the day. Instead of saying you are going to take a poop, say you are going to make a Jackson Pollock

Re:What difference does it make?

[AmazingRuss]

Because it lets them figure out what video to show next, to mindfuck morons into becoming an enemy of their country. It's a more sophisticated version of what the Russians did in 2016: The weaponization of an enemies' morons via the internet.

Re:

[muh_freeze_peach]

I gotta buy stock in Reynold's Wrap.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

A better example of mindfucking morons would be the "Defund the Police" movement, which arose in large part due to the algorithmic promotion of police brutality videos, which themselves are actually exceedingly rare in a country of 330M people, but can be made to seem common with fewer than 100 samples collected over the course of ten or more years. Really, you only need a few, I can't really even stomach watching them at all.

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[muh_freeze_peach]

Please tell the class what the acceptable amount of power abuse is?

Re:

[AmazingRuss]

Make it 2. I only got one beating though. There. Sample size is doubled.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

got my ass kicked because 'broken windows' says I shouldn't be out after dark.

Sounds like you were hanging out with people who turned into a violent mob when darkness fell. Don't do that. Disperse. Go home.

Re:

[AmazingRuss]

There are many mindfuckers on the internet, with many different goals. Google "Defund the FBI"

Re:

[DontBeAMoran]

They can change the morals and values of future generations to better align with their own, which makes conquest and assimilation much easier in the future.

Remember that China is playing the long game. They plan not only for next year and the next decade, but also for the next century.

Re:

[TWX]

The issue isn't even just one of now, but one of the future.

Naive person posts provocative content as a late-teen or early-twentysomething. This person matures over the years, both in age and in mindset, and decides to try to make a difference in politics. Campaigns are successful, rising through status in various elected positions. Now a foreign power sees the rise and basically introduces themselves as blackmailers, either play-ball, with small things initially, or the content gets 'found' and released

Unworkable

[timeOday]

There is really no way to make this promise without somebody trying to create a big scandal out of it later. Does a picture of somebody's face constitute 'user data'? If not, what would? But if it does, any TikTok video recorded in the US that includes a face could never be viewed anywhere else.

Re:Unworkable

[AleRunner]

There is really no way to make this promise without somebody trying to create a big scandal out of it later.

No way? I mean, why not keep the data in the US on US servers and work with it only in the US using people that are subject to US law? That's the standard that Europeans get because of the GDPR in almost all instances. Not difficult either to do now we all know how or to legislate for.

Re:

[Kernel Kurtz]

why not keep the data in the US on US servers and work with it only in the US using people that are subject to US law?

It would not change the fact that the data is subject to a "national security law in that country that compels companies located there to cooperate with data requests."

The senators don't care about protecting you from China. They care you might incidentally be protected from them.

Re:

[Deal In One]

Didn't Microsoft build DCs that are not subject to US governmen't reach in Germany?

https://arstechnica.com/inform... [arstechnica.com]

In the above link, MS has a data trustee who is a sub of Deutsche Telekom. MS can't access any data in that DC without DT giving permission. That makes it out of direct MS control, and so out of reach of US government.

So, can't Tik Tok have a similar deal so that China government will not have access to Tik Tok's data without a data trustee agreeing to give access?

Re:

[AleRunner]

So, can't Tik Tok have a similar deal so that China government will not have access to Tik Tok's data without a data trustee agreeing to give access?

Probably, yes; Tik Tok could get a data centre built for them in either the US or Germany where the data access could be controlled so the Chinese government wouldn't have easy direct access. Depending on architecture, though, probably Tik Tok's systems would be able to access the data which would allow a hole through (China just forces the programmer to change the code to give them the data they want). They could also build their own systems so that they don't need access to any of that data and then disa

Re:

[hotdogee]

You know TikTok is banned in China by the CCP right?

Data to feed the ML agents...

[AmazingRuss]

... that will make American monkeys dance. President TaylorGreen will approve.

Making the wrong demands

[RogueWarrior65]

Supposedly, TikTok serves up different content in China than it does in the US. Apparently, the content it serves up in China is a lot of life-skills training (for want of a better term) and other skills training. Here in the US, they supposedly serve up bullsh*t like dance videos and other useless stuff. Congress is making the wrong demands. Instead of demanding that they stop sending data to China, they should demand that every use get served the same content.

Re:Making the wrong demands

[Ogive17]

I doubt most Americans want to watch TikTok to get videos on how the government is great.

Re:

[HiThere]

Especially in the Beijing dialect of Chinese.

Re:Making the wrong demands

[prowler1]

It's also not called Tiktok in China but Douyin and basically, the stuff Tiktok serves in the west is not allowed in China due to it being harmful to society. I found the double standards the company holds rather telling and interesting.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re: Making the wrong demands

[ravenshrike]

That presupposes the algorithms are based merely on increased consumption without specific biases built in.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[quantaman]

TikTok is not the only organization that collects this data. If it is a national security concern that China not get this data then I'm sure all of these other organizations will come under scrutiny for the controls they have in place.

It's not just national security. Look at all the foreign born athletes who competed for China in the 2022 Olympics. You think that Chinese intelligence services weren't involved in those efforts? A detailed profile educated by as much of their Internet history as possible would certainly be helpful when trying to court them through obvious and non-obvious tactics.

All other internet traffic

[muh_freeze_peach]

All traffic from literally every other company that has business ties to china should be called under scrutiny then. Not just shit-cock..er..tik-tok

Re:

[AmazingRuss]

The orange man doesn't even know what the tick tocks are.

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[AmazingRuss]

Freeze Peach?

Why would they commit to it?

[Petersko]

No need. It's not a "no" until after the mandate comes down, is challenged in court, and goes through appeals. They've got years before it's real.

Re:

[JeffOz]

Exactly. Why would any company commit to any rule that is not required by law?

Obvious answer

[NotEmmanuelGoldstein]

... national security law in that country that compels companies ...

The answers is obvious, the US government orders all companies to disobey national security law. Yeah, that works for me!

Remember, "US government can use the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to request non-content and content information, and use National Security Letters (NSLs) to request limited information about a user’s identity."

The internet is a global network

[diffract]

Until someone else tries to contribute to it

Other Way Around

[Musical_Joe]

I don't know how these things work, but if the Chinese Government asked Google to commit to banning anyone in the US from accessing any information at all about any data collected in China that might contain even the tiniest little bit of information about a 'user' (i.e. website, individual, business or any other interaction point) then I'm sure Google would say 'yes' right away, and the American Government would be extremely proud of how an American company has ensured that they can't snoop on even the mos

Tiktok

[adamvy1]

I see now that Tiktok is very active and FB and Google are afraid of Tiktok

Re:

[adamvy1]

i love Tiktok downloader https://downloader4x.net/en/ [downloader4x.net]