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Transportation United States

The Largest Electric School Bus Fleet In the US Launches In Maryland (electrek.co) 70

Posted by BeauHD from the electric-future dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: Montgomery County Public Schools, one of the largest school districts in the US, has deployed the single largest electric school bus fleet in the country. Last school year, the school district saw the delivery of its first 25 electric buses and installed electric infrastructure at one of its transportation depots. It's now added 61 more electric buses to its fleet, for a total of 86. Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS) will replace 326 diesel school buses with electric school buses by 2025, and it will have an entirely electric school bus fleet in 10 years. Superintendent Dr. Monifa B. McKnight said at yesterday's launch that, when procurement of the 326 electric buses is complete, "we are going to be saving upwards of 6,500 gallons of diesel fuel per day, and immediately, this is going to cut costs by 50%."

Electrek notes that under Maryland's Climate Solutions Now Act of 2022 (PDF), all new school bus purchases and contracts must be electric by 2025.
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The Largest Electric School Bus Fleet In the US Launches In Maryland More

The Largest Electric School Bus Fleet In the US Launches In Maryland

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  • In some places, schools stagger their schedules so that the same bus fleet can service several schools. In the little township just outside the Philly limits where I grew up, the busses serviced the high school, middle school, and elementary school, running through three consecutive routes in the morning, and again in the afternoon.

    The elementary school started at 9 and the high school let out at 215 or 220, leaving maybe 4.5 or 5 hours at most to recharge in between when travel time between schools and the

    • Wow (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      this is the least douche nozzle comment from you i've ever seen

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I don't know the specifics of what school buses get in the way of range, but city buses I remember seeing something like 100 miles between charges and an all-night recharge.

      Sydney uses BYD electric buses for inner city routes, and they last two shifts (about 16 hours on the road). The biggest consumer of the battery is not moving the bus, it's the air conditioning.

      Electric buses can fast charge as well using the same kind of chargers for EVs.

      Riding public transit is quite an experience when the bus makes pr

      • I used to live along an old school, dual overhead wire electric bus line outside of Boston. The benefit was entirely to the people outside the bus who didn't have to hear it or smell it. Riding it was just as crappy as riding a normal bus.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dbialac ( 320955 )
          This is a great implementation of an electric bus that has existed for over 100 years. Unlike batteries, the wires are 100% economically recyclable. Production doesn't create anywhere near as much CO2 and there's no disposal process, so you aren't creating toxic waste.
          • Yes, trolley buses & trams do seem to be the next logical progression. Also, if they run on metal tracks, there's less rubber particulate pollution being produced. That's something that all the electric cars & buses in the world aren't addressing & it's a real public health hazard.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jbengt ( 874751 )
            The city I grew up in had buses using the overhead catenary wires connecting to them with pantagraphs. They discontinued all of them because of the reliability, traffic, and maintenance issues with them, not to mention how ugly all those wires everywhere are. Maybe in an area with mild winters it would be OK, but probably not as good as battery buses overall.

      • The stop-and-go driving pattern of a bus is a good fit for electric with regen braking.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Askmum ( 1038780 )
        For urban transit there are even better solutions than "the same kind of chargers for EVs" (usually CCS1 or CC2). In the Netherlands, electric busses have a pantograph and an overhead connector. Like here [google.nl] where you see a lone diesel bus amongst all the electrics.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jbengt ( 874751 )
          Maybe they can make it work in the Netherlands, but they discontinued those kinds of buses using overhead wiring in my city because of all the problems with them.

      • Re:Maybe (Score:4, Interesting)

        by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Wednesday October 26, 2022 @12:27PM (#63000015)
        All new buses here in Spain are hybrid & yes, they're much quieter (even with the diesel engine kicking in from time to time to top the battery up) & get around faster than ICE buses because they accelerate faster. & of course, southern Spain is the hottest part of Europe so the air-con has gotta work well.

    • If electric buses have 100 mile ranges, how many field trips are more than 50 miles away? This would be a very rare situation in my opinion.

      • If electric buses have 100 mile ranges, how many field trips are more than 50 miles away?

        They should be able to recharge at the destination once EBs are common.

        • Only if they aren't going home that evening. Now you've layered on hotel stays.

          • Only if they aren't going home that evening.

            Field trips usually have a purpose and duration. They don't just drive somewhere and immediately turn around and drive back.

            A bus taking students to a museum or football game will typically be at the destination for several hours.

            That is enough time to fully charge a battery.

      • So Boston students won't be taking any field trips out of state.
    • But we'll have autonomous fleets of cybertrux to shuttle us around by then!?!!? Also humanoid robots will go to school 4 da kidz

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by cb88 ( 1410145 )
      May still be worth it... since like trash trucks school buses are one of the best places to use hybrids or electrics due to the frequent starting and stopping. Granted a school bus isn't usually quite as much as a trash truck but still.

  • It actually makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @07:16PM (#62998075)
    School buses are generally driven only twice a day, morning and after school, with plenty time to recharge between trips. Also distance is known and not that great. I think because of that School Bus is an ideal use case for electrification.

    • Re:It actually makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @07:22PM (#62998089)

      Diesel fumes aren't exactly great for children either.

      • Diesel fumes aren't exactly great for children either.

        Lead isn't either, but that doesn't seem to be high on people's list.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by sinij ( 911942 )
          Stop spreading FUD. The amount of lead emissions produced by a diesel engine is the amount of lead put into diesel fuel. Which in a modern diesel fuel is zero.

        • I grew up with leaded gasoline still being sold. It was finally banned when I was still a kid. I still remember Grandpa having an "adapter" that allowed him to fill his unleaded car with leaded gasoline (Ruined a bunch of stuff but was cheaper at the time). I didn't know enough back then to understand how bad that was.

          I'd argue that it at least WAS at the top of a lot of people's list. Hell, it's still on a lot of lists - beware of lead paint, low lead requirements for other things, batteries without le

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Phact ( 4649149 )

            Fun fact: Lead White paint is still available - in an Art Supply store.

          • Lead plumbing is still common in Chicago and other cities with high murder rates.

            But they can't afford to fix the plumbing because they're spending so much on police and prisons.

          • I'd holding in my hand a 200ml tube of Flake White (lead) paint.

      • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

        by sinij ( 911942 )

        Diesel fumes aren't exactly great for children either.

        I know back in 1930s when you were in school these were dirty, but modern fuel injected turbo diesels are clean enough.

        • Diesel fumes aren't exactly great for children either.

          I know back in 1930s when you were in school these were dirty, but modern fuel injected turbo diesels are clean enough.

          That's why we are going to be using them for a long time to come.

        • Lock yourself in a garage with the bus diesel engine running and see if you are still of that opinion after a short while

      • Luckily, school buses send all their diesel fumes out a tailpipe and drive away from those fumes. They don't pipe the fumes into the bus.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by hazem ( 472289 )

          Haven't you eve seen a line of buses driving up to a school and idling as they load/unload? There are plenty of opportunities for kids to breath diesel fumes.

          • Which begs the next question: Why the heck are they idling during load/unload?

            • Which begs the next question: Why the heck are they idling during load/unload?

              Because starts are hard on components, even with a hot engine. And these days you don't get to shut down diesels whenever you want to, especially if you are not doing highway miles. All diesels now have a DPF, also known as an oxidizer trap — they first appeared around 1985 and they sucked then, but they were made mandatory in 2007 (for the USA) and they still suck.

              DPFs/traps collect the nice big chunky relatively harmless but ugly soot particles emitted by diesel engines and reburn them into CO2 and

        • Did you ever ride one of those jank ass buses? We inhaled all sorts of fumes. Stop lights and traffic, dipshit. Also the bus would idle during boarding

        • Yes, fumes disappear from existence as soon as they exit the tail pipe.

        • Have you never had to wait in a covered bus depot where there are big signs on all the walls that engines must be switched off while waiting, AKA, "No idling" & yet all the bus engines are idling & filling the depot with fumes? Don't you think that's a problem that electric buses can solve?

    • Re:It actually makes sense (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Narrowband ( 2602733 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @07:41PM (#62998119)
      You can at least do some of them this way, depending on the district. In other districts, though, each bus runs three separate routes per day: elementary, middle, and high school (which start and end at different times), and some of the rural routes get long. In those cases it's not twice per day they're driven, but six times, with not much time between the different runs. You would think a bus is large enough to stack a huge number of batteries on, to compensate, but maybe that makes them cost prohibitive or there's a diminishing returns issue on weight/capacity.

      • Re:It actually makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @09:47PM (#62998389)

        The larger buses in this article have a range of 138 miles, which would be a pretty good distance for a bus to travel in a single day. It seems like a more typical pattern is to cover a smaller area in adjacent neighborhoods, and of course, lots of starts and stops. I'd bet they have a few hours between start and end of day to top off their batteries, which could extend the range if needed, assuming they have some sort of quick-charge capacity. Seems like it would be enough, even for six routes total per day. Maybe not for rural routes, but by definition, those are in less densely populated areas, so probably it's either-or.

        I'm guessing someone at least ran the numbers before the school district replaced their entire fleet. Stranger things have happened, but incompetence typically doesn't run THAT deep.

        • Stranger things have happened, but incompetence typically doesn't run THAT deep.

          California begs to differ. We're talking government, after all. No reason Mass is any better.

        • I don't know what rock you've been living under but incompetence seems pretty rampant to me at all levels of government. If your town, city, county, or state are asking for voters to pass one or more bonds this election cycle, that, by definition, is incompetence - they are unable to manage a budget properly and want to saddle you with what was and is their fiscal responsibility. And some of it is "paid incompetence" where the people making the decisions are quite intelligent but someone pays them very, v

      • Re:It actually makes sense (Score:4, Informative)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday October 26, 2022 @04:40AM (#62998883) Homepage Journal

        China has had electric busses running on commercial routes for years and years now. Batteries up to 450kWh last time I looked, maybe more now. They get a full day out of that.

        The battery cost isn't all that great in the scheme of things. Busses aren't cheap to start with, and with regular operation the battery will save money over its lifetime.

      • Blue Bird, the world's oldest school bus manufacturer, made a full-EV school bus back in 2006 or something. It had 100 miles, not sure about the charge time. This is literally enough to do an average school bus route three times without charging, on a good day anyway. With charging overnight and in between, no problem.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by E-Lad ( 1262 )

      This is my county, and I appreciate not only the environmental benefit and the fewer amounts of particulate and nitrogen compounds being spewed into the air, but also not being stuck behind a bus that has a tailpipe that is level with my car's air intake and is therefore mainlining diesel fumes into the cabin while I wait in line to drop the kiddo off. They are still too young to ride the bus.

      • That has always bugged the shit out of me. All heavy diesels should have a stack. It's just cheaper and quieter to exit out the back. We have a 1999 Blue Bird bus to rv conversion with an 8.3 liter cummins and a rear exhaust, until it's fully warmed up (which takes like half an hour) it really spews.

    • Try to imagine the infrastructure needed to recharge 86 buses simultaneously.

      School buses in most districts run three routes in the morning, three after school - they only sit idle for a few hours during the day.

      • i'd hazard a guess that they've worked out the logistics and capabilities before embarking on this process.

      • > Try to imagine the infrastructure needed to recharge 86 buses simultaneously.

        On a -15 morning.

      • Re: It actually makes sense (Score:5, Informative)

        by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Wednesday October 26, 2022 @10:06AM (#62999451) Journal

        > Try to imagine the infrastructure needed to recharge 86 buses simultaneously.

        Okay I imagined it. Now what?

        > they only sit idle for a few hours during the day

        A typical school bus driver works a split shift from like 6AM to 10AM, then 1PM to 5PM. So you have an hour or two mid-day for a quick charge if you need, and 12+ hours in the yard overnight.

        86 buses with 226kwh packs (Note: not all of them have packs that large). If we assume an 10-hour window for charging (there is definitely more), and that they all need a full 0-100% charge daily in that 10 hour window (they won't), that's about 25kw average per vehicle, or 2,120 kw for the fleet. 3000A/480V service would be more than enough and that's roughly the kind of service a large high school would have. That's not a small service, mind you, but not crazy either.
        =Smidge=

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by cb88 ( 1410145 )

      They found that buses driver around 70mi a day, and that about 150miles included 99.7% of buses. So except for a few you could replace almost all buses if you had 100mi range and a midday charge. That was in Colorado Washington mostly with a small sample of 3 in NY.

      So, a 150-200mi range for practical reasons could probably service almost all bus routes. And if you built enough solar on the school it could charge during the day and not add load to the grid.

      https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy14osti/60068.pdf

  • Fixed cost (Score:3)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @07:52PM (#62998143)
    If I am reading their webpage [highlandfleets.com] correctly, the contractor is assuming the financial risks of switching technologies: "We create a subscription plan that includes all your buses, chargers, and depot improvements... We provide a complete service program, reimbursing for all repair costs, including parts and labor."

    Maybe one day it would be better for a large fleet to in-house these costs and cut out a profit-making contractor. But in these early years, preventing surprise costs and possible failure does seem valuable.

    • Maybe one day it would be better for a large fleet to in-house these costs and cut out a profit-making contractor. But in these early years, preventing surprise costs and possible failure does seem valuable.

      Large fleets like this one already have in-house maintenance and planning capabilities. This seems more like outsourcing your IT department to the cloud reseller of the day.

      • But do those in-house personnel have any experience with electric busses? I would hate to see this turn out as a "starry-eyed futurists wreck Maryland school district with electric bus debacle" headline.

        • They will be terminating diesel mechanics, writing cost-plus checks to a contractor.

          Yes, this move will shield the school district from unanticipated expenses, but it will cost more than managing the buses themselves.

          It's not unheard of for school districts to lease ICE buses to manage costs or even hire an outside company to own & operate their bus fleet.

  • Handle-tow rope on a big city-wide loop and roller skates.

    Works great for the bunny-hill . . .

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