Automakers Are Locking the Aftermarket Out of Engine Control Units (roadandtrack.com) 175
This month Road & Track looked at "increased cybersecurity measures" automakers are adding to car systems — and how it's affecting the vendors of "aftermarket" enhancements:
As our vehicles start to integrate more complex systems such as Advanced Driver Assist Systems and over-the-air updates, automakers are growing wary of what potential bad actors could gain access to by way of hacking. Whether those hacks come in an attempt to retrieve personal customer data, or to take control of certain aspects of these integrated vehicles, automakers want to leave no part of that equation unchecked. "I think there are very specific reasons why the OEMs are taking encryption more seriously," HP Tuners director of marketing Eddie Xu told R&T. "There's personal identifiable data on vehicles, there's more considerations now than just engine control modules controlling the engine. It's everything involved."
In order to prevent this from becoming a potential safety or legal issue, companies like Ford have moved to heavily encrypt their vehicle's software. S650 Mustang chief engineer Ed Krenz specifically noted that the new FNV architecture can detect when someone attempts to modify any of the vehicle's coding, and that it can respond by shutting down an individual vehicle system or the vehicle entirely if that's what is required.
That sort of total lockout presents an interesting challenge for [car performance] tuners who rely on access to things like engine and transmission control modules to create their products.
Last month Ford acknowledged tuners would find the S650 Mustang "much more difficult," the article points out. And they add that Dodge also "intends to lock down the Engine Control Units of its upcoming electric muscle car offerings, though it will offer performance upgrades via its own over-the-air network."
"We don't want to lock the cars and say you can't modify them," Dodge CEO Kuniskis told Carscoops. "We just want to lock them and say modify them through us so that we know it's done right."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for submitting the article.
In order to prevent this from becoming a potential safety or legal issue, companies like Ford have moved to heavily encrypt their vehicle's software. S650 Mustang chief engineer Ed Krenz specifically noted that the new FNV architecture can detect when someone attempts to modify any of the vehicle's coding, and that it can respond by shutting down an individual vehicle system or the vehicle entirely if that's what is required.
That sort of total lockout presents an interesting challenge for [car performance] tuners who rely on access to things like engine and transmission control modules to create their products.
Last month Ford acknowledged tuners would find the S650 Mustang "much more difficult," the article points out. And they add that Dodge also "intends to lock down the Engine Control Units of its upcoming electric muscle car offerings, though it will offer performance upgrades via its own over-the-air network."
"We don't want to lock the cars and say you can't modify them," Dodge CEO Kuniskis told Carscoops. "We just want to lock them and say modify them through us so that we know it's done right."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for submitting the article.
A good strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
Customers should be vendor-locked and made to pay through their nose. What do they think, someone owes them "competition" and "fredums"? Pay up, or GTFO! My jet fleet won't pay for itself.
Re: A good strategy (Score:3)
Re: A good strategy (Score:5, Informative)
I mean sure- it's a technical possibility, but it isn't the 80s anymore. An ECM handles a lot more than ignition and fuel delivery.
To develop an aftermarket ECU that can actually handle all the functions of the stock one is going to take some serious reverse engineering.
I did some reverse engineering on my last Mustang (1999) to get access to the ECM's individual cylinder misfire counters, and even on that thing, I discovered that it handles the silliest shit, like my window rolling down a quarter inch when I lift the door latch so that it doesn't wreck the convertible top.
The "Door Computer" is actually nothing but a an interface breakout from CAN to the local direct electronics.
Re: A good strategy (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think that's been an option for cars for a long time, now.
No, that's how it's being done on the current generation of muscle cars. You can buy unlocked ECMs from various performance ships. Those have been hacked to allow modifications.
Re: A good strategy (Score:4, Informative)
This article is about "unlocking" ECMs being on the cusp of being a lot harder to pull off.
It's easy to imagine how they can do that. Start using SoCs that require cryptographically signed firmwares to boot.
Current generation "locked" ECUs are not really protected at all.
They just require OBD software to submit a password before functionality is unlocked. Modifying one to be unlocked simply means re-flashing it with the password blanked out.
Right now, there's no *real* work on those ECMs to ensure code and data integrity.
For this reason, parent was suggesting you simply get a "better ECM", i.e., an pure-aftermarket solution... which is technically feasible, but also practically infeasible.
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For this reason, parent was suggesting you simply get a "better ECM", i.e., an pure-aftermarket solution... which is technically feasible, but also practically infeasible.
It depends on the level of integration, and what you're willing to give up and/or swap out. There's no reason why you can't buy a PCM from Haltech, and build a harness to connect it into your vehicle. You'll have to swap it back for emissions testing if you've got an ICEV. You might have to add an ignition switch system of some kind. You may have to retrofit a new control system for the door latches and locks. It's all doable, though the PCM is expensive. But that raises the question, why bother? If you're
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It depends on the level of integration, and what you're willing to give up and/or swap out
100%.
What you give up is more than you think on any modern car. The example I gave, is the ability to roll your windows up and down on my last car.
Obviously you can re-implement everything in the car controlled by the ECM, but realistically- that's simply not going to happen.
People with money and the desire to go faster swap PCMs in modern cars all the time.
Almost* always, that's done by using a flashed (by software, or a tuning ECM provider) stock ECM, so that all of the functionality is still there, it's just password unlocked so that you can play with it.
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I did some reverse engineering on my last Mustang (1999) to get access to the ECM's individual cylinder misfire counters, and even on that thing, I discovered that it handles the silliest shit, like my window rolling down a quarter inch when I lift the door latch so that it doesn't wreck the convertible top.
That sounds very 1999. My 2020 BMW has various discrete modules for all those things, lots of them actually. Windows would be in the BDC (Body Domain Controller, no pun intended), probably specifically the FEM (Front Electronics Module), but most certainly not in the DME. My coding software tells me what modules handle what. Some functions do require flashing more than one module.
https://www.bmweg.com/bmw-modu... [bmweg.com]
I love being able to code everything the factory can in all those modules, and would p
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Re: A good strategy (Score:2)
Your BMW also has multiple networks of AUTOSAR ECUs. Many manufacturers use this architecture. Where things blow up for 1337h4x0r5 is the CAN signals. In AUTOSAR, every ECU on a network contains a copy of the signal database. If any ECU is replaced, it must have the same version of the SDB loaded onto it or the ECU will be a babbling idiot on the network. This will cause many ECUs to start throwing DTCs and break all kinds of functionality.
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If you must tune your car, then a piggyback ECM is at least an option, but it's pretty vastly inferior to just being able to modify the tables in the main firmware.
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They were... cool because they were OSS.
But they also sucked.
Well, that's not fair. Good for track vehicles. Woefully deficient for putting in your nice BMW that you want to play with.
When it comes right down to it, there simply isn't enough non-commercially-captured skilled brain power available for it.
That could change at any time though, of course.
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None of what was said above was speculation, other than the assertion that there isn't enough non-commercially-capture skilled brain power available.
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MegaSquirt is an entire ecosystem - there are even wiring harnesses to plug it straight up to a LSX crate motor.
Then what, precisely, do you have an exception to me saying?
MS is not FOSS...
Crate Motors are of course it's most common application.
Re: A good strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
Just replace the whole ECU with a better one.
Stock engine upgrades don't really make sense now anyway. Sure you might be able to unlock a few more HP, but it will most certainly be at the expense of your vehicle's ability to pass an inspection (i.e. emissions control) and/or the reliability and life of the engine. For the gains you get, it just doesn't seem worth it.
Another thing is that performance is pretty cheap these days. If you have the money to play around with high performance road vehicles, then just get a dedicated track/rally car. You can get some decent early 2000s hot hatch and rebuild and engine for pretty cheap these days to get something that goes really well. Ripping around a track in a car that you can beat up (a little bit) is way more fun than getting 0.5 seconds off your quarter mile time on a vehicle that you'll spend most of the time stuck in traffic or pottering around at 30mph. Additionally, many countries still have extremely generous exemptions for emissions, noise etc if you have a road 'legal' rally car compared with a family car that you're trying to hot up, and typically track vehicle road insurance is significantly cheaper than trying to insure your modified road car. It's a much easier way to go about things and a lot more fun.
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You're daft. LS swaps are nearly ubiquitous now. If you can swap it into the engine bay, there's a company out there selling a supporting wire harness/harness interface + tune for you. Only thing you'll lose is traction control in most cases. There are still LS swap kits for the Miata out there:
https://v8roadsters.com/produc... [v8roadsters.com]
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...you'll spend most of the time stuck in traffic or pottering around at 30mph.
What? Did they put systemd on cars now?
Re: A good strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
for gas cars, maybe.
electric cars? essentially never.
(I work in the field and write fw that runs on ecus)
guys, we (the industry) cant even get our own ecu fw and hw right. you think you're going to dev sw, build and test it and flash it?
no. just no. not for the new breed of cars.
along with that, expect CAN, eth, and the rest to be encrypted. and for good reason. lots of bad actors out there and breakins and other nonsense has to be guarded against.
its not that they dont want you to enjoy your car, but the game is nowhere near the same as it once was. its almost all software now. swapping the same part but with older fw may be as bad as swapping in a dead brick.
and as fw updates happen FOTA style, again, your modded ecu is not going to play well.
those days are over. deal with it.
Re: A good strategy (Score:4, Interesting)
I work in the field too, I do corporate fleet and heavy equipment maintenance. The days of you guys getting my money are over (my employer can pay thru the nose, and they do...)
Electronic control is a disaster waiting to happen, either via planned obsolescence, bad caps, or EMP events. To say nothing of the huge expense. Think $30 wheel bearings vs $300 wheel bearings, and the both have the same mechanical lifespan.
Which is why my own equipment is out of the stone age, and can be fixed by anyone with ordinary tools and supplies. While my employer is spending millions every quarter on industrial engine controls, my rig is often the only thing that actually runs and works that day, in all kinds of weather. No, it doesn't get the best gas mileage -- that is the trade-off, and its worth it for stone-hammer reliability.
Re: A good strategy (Score:5, Informative)
This is what talking about guarding an ECU against a remote exploit sounds like:
https://xkcd.com/463/ [xkcd.com]
The electronics for vehicle systems should be airgapped against the entertainment systems that may be connected to the Internet and other wireless communications. If you must do OTA updates (although it seems like the only way to win that game is not to play and to just let the driver plug a flash drive into a reflash port), the vehicle should have to be put into a maintenance mode to do this where the update is staged on the entertainment system and then when the vehicle goes into maintenance mode, the entertainment system is connected to the ECU and disconnected from all other communications during the reflash, which the user confirms (to prevent any accidental reflashes with possibly malicious code). This is in no way less secure than going full John Deere on every system in the vehicle and allowing unattended OTA updates, unless the aim is to build DRM rather than secure the system against attackers. At some point before that vehicle is scrapped it will stop getting updates, and if remote access is part of the attack surface that will make it vulnerable to security issues. If your signing keys are broken with a quantum computer, or more realistically, eventually leaked, the car would then be less secure than it would be with the maintenance mode switch.
its almost all software now. swapping the same part but with older fw may be as bad as swapping in a dead brick.
Sounds like bad design. It should be easier to make software communicating over standardized networks more widely compatible than hardware bits using odd electrical signals. Software should be able to detect version differences and go into a backwards-compatible mode or at least a safe mode for some minimum level of operation.
Every car I've bought with an ECU either has the ECU reflashed or replaced with an aftermarket unit, and I don't think I'd buy a vehicle where at least one of those isn't an option. Hopefully once the EV industry realizes they aren't making smart TVs and starts engineering electronic systems more like the aerospace industry, this phase will pass and sensible separation of duties into different components will come back so that specific components can be reflashed or replaced to change specific functions.
And why should gas cars have a different level of ECU integration into the rest of the car than an EV anyway? If you're going to excessively integrate it for no good reason, the powertrain type shouldn't matter. This isn't an EV issue, it's a careless Silly Valley design practices seeping into cars issue.
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"careless Silly Valley design practices seeping into cars"
what do you think the imbecilic valuations are about? all wall street sees is that hordes of relatively untrained hungry workers can blodge together something that barely works but people will buy anyway, and thinks you can also do that in literally any industry except software "engineering".
expect to see a lot more of this (and a thunderous whomp when the clouds fall). you can't convince someone of the truth when their livelihood depends upon the fa
Re: A good strategy (Score:2)
Show me 40 year old RC car control systems running ASIL-D rated safety critical code for controlling microsecond-resolution hard real-time inverters driving multiphase AC motors.
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Customers should be vendor-locked and made to pay through their nose. What do they think, someone owes them "competition" and "fredums"? Pay up, or GTFO! My jet fleet won't pay for itself.
Owing a car used to represent freedom. Now, not owning one seems to.
More corporate grifting (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no necessity for personally identifiable data to be kept on car computers, and long-standing precedent has established that "at your own risk" means exactly that when modifying a manufacturer's settings. Burn out your CPU because you didn't overclock it quite right and see how far you get demanding a free replacement from the manufacturer.
This is the latest corporate assault on Right to Repair, pure and simple.
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In my car, the screen is just a U/I to my phone. My contacts etc are not stored in my car.
Ymmv.
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But they do exist. They are everywhere. If they can hack your car and make it crash they will. This is the result.
Imagine needing an armed security escort everywhere you go, even in your own house. But you don't have to imagine this if you have been on th
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If someone's modding their car, do you think they want the self-driving feature to stay enabled?
No, no they don't.
Re: More corporate grifting (Score:2)
I am nodding my car to add features to driver assist. So yes I do
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You are in the minority. Take a look at the "hotrodding" ICE-engine community, which is to whom this article pertains (mostly).
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I would bet that there will be a completely new hotrodding community popping up who build their own rigs from the ground up again, as electric motors are much more easy to handle than ICEs, and you don't need to adhere to emission rules or thing about noise pollution.
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Well yes, I paid for it I want every feature enabled.
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Ah, another corporate shill heard from. How many more dicks do you have to suck to reach a CEO's dick?
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But taking over systems that implement autonomous driving
ECUs control the engine, they don't "implement autonomous driving".
It means at the risk of other drivers and passengers as well.
Have you performed a risk assessment? Have you studied others? Do you have any idea what the risks even are?
It's not a "necessity", it's an unavoidable fact. Cars are titled, they have owners. They are identifiable, therefore there is personally identifiable data.
What changed? Cars have had VINs and Plates for a long time. Anyone can drive any car or have any passengers. Could it be that the presence of unique identifiers itself isn't the issue but rather the coupling of identifiers with detailed event logs, video captures and GPS telemetry enabling granular identification and stalking of
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At what point does anyone but my repair shop ever plug in to my computer to query anything?
During mandatory emissions testing, which most vehicles are subject to.
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And exactly what PII is stored in my car?
Most people who have infotainment are probably syncing to it, and it's quite common now. While it's usually not all on the same bus, it's generally only one hop away and often the gateway is built into something else (e.g. the cluster.)
Dodgy CEO association (Score:5, Interesting)
So we get rid of the competition. And instead offer you a web based tool to tune your car via over the air updates. Very cheap for us to run. For you Mr consumer, it'll cost a fair bit more. And it'll be a subscription. Remember to cancel when your car is totalled.
Hey, it's not all bad. We'll even introduce cutting edge computing concepts.
Like "Gamification": "You are big spender #2345. Spend some more!"
And yes, "loot boxes": "Oh, you wanted RPM? You got voice operated windows. Try again!"
Dodgy CEO is qoting Bell (Score:4, Informative)
We don't want you connecting your devices to our telephone lines, you could break them.Tell us what you want and we'll sell it to you.
Oh, a MOdulator-DEModulator? No, we don't think you should have MODEMs. You might send computer signals over our lines...
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It might not even cost more money, tuners can be pretty expensive. The question is why you would need one any more. Check out the ratings on the modern American light duty diesels, they are totally bananas:
2022 Duramax: 6.6l, 445 hp/910 lb-ft.
2022 Powerstroke: 6.7l, 475/1,050
2022 Dodge (Cummins ISB): 6.7l, 420/1,075
Holy shitballs batman, how long can they run like that? Not long, I'm guessing.
The gassers are pretty pissed off too...
Encryption and user control (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Encryption and user control (Score:3)
Digital signatures can help in this regard.
Over the air updates (Score:3)
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That's the reason / excuse for this. Of course we have seen how car manufacturers are figuring out ways to be absolute dicks to their paying customers, hiding features behind paywalls and so forth.
Yup.
"And they add that Dodge also "intends to lock down the Engine Control Units of its upcoming electric muscle car offerings, though it will offer performance upgrades via its own over-the-air network."
"We just want to lock them and say modify them through us so that we know it's done right."
It's not.
CEOs and their lockz (Score:2)
Lock lock lock. That's all they think about these days.
Maybe it's some sort of subconcious bondage thing with them.
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I'm all in favor of some autoerotic asphyxiation for them.
Lock them up in a large garbage bag and ... well, that's as far as I got with that idea, come back to me in a week. And take the trash out on your way out, be so kind. I can't lift more than 100 pounds.
Be careful what you were wishing for .. (Score:2)
.. you wanted to oust cyber security threats in general, so why leave the car open?
UNECE R155 and R156 are basically the answer to the calls for better cyber security, that it goes along with the greed of car makers is another "feature".
Too many gizmos (Score:4, Interesting)
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Why do it?
Profit generation for shareholders, of course.
Even just twenty years ago you could buy a car and it would serve you "just fine" for ten or twenty years. Car makers want repeat business, though, they want you buying far more frequently than once every ten or twenty years.
Since the introduction of the iPhone in 2007 car markers have been paying special attention to the smartphone markets and are tripping over themselves to fill cars up with computer-driven electronics, fancy screens and flashy software - not
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Well, some of those "gizmos" are actually sensible additions to the car. Sensors measuring your combustion can save you fuel and make your car run smoother, sensors detecting problems can make repairs cheaper by telling you to replace part A before it causes parts B, C and D to fail in a cascade, and of course a lot of safety sensors from steering aid to ABS give you better control, especially in those dangerous situations. And if they all fail, the whole rest of security stuff keeps you alive, hopefully, i
Well, be glad if you didn't buy one (Score:2)
Looks like you dodged that bullet.
yeah sure... (Score:2)
Complicated situation (Score:3)
Instant improvements (Score:4, Interesting)
I flashed a proper third-party tune to my motorcycle 9 years ago. It instantly:
1) Improved my fuel mileage by about 10%
2) Got rid of a large power loss band between 2K and 5K RPM
3) Made the throttle far less "twitchy", improving control
4) Made shifting much easier
So I then had a more powerful, safer, easier-to-drive, smoother, and more fun vehicle. So why didn't the manufacturer do that? Because they tune for the lowest common denominator and never offered any updates. Once they sell the vehicle and it doesn't have gross liability or defects, they don't care anymore. 4 years ago, I flashed an even newer tune and it was even better.
Unlike the manufacturer, the aftermarket tuners (at least the ones I used) actually DRIVE this model for years, listen to feedback, test hundreds of times, and continuously improve the expensive vehicle we bought. They live or die on their reputation and reviews. Is there some risk? Yes. But is it worth it? Hell yes. Is it for everyone? Probably not.
I know dozens who did the same thing, they all love it and have had zero problems over countless miles. And yes, all the pollution controls are in place, CAT works fine, and running stock muffler. The improvements in fuel economy way more than make up for any rare negative "emissions" spots that might come into play.
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Unlike the manufacturer, the aftermarket tuners (at least the ones I used) actually DRIVE this model for years, listen to feedback, test hundreds of times, and continuously improve the expensive vehicle we bought.
Exactly. Built by people who eat their own dog food.
Rent seeking (Score:2)
It's "quality control".
No.
Translation: (Score:2)
"We just want to lock them and say modify them through us so that we know it's done right."
For a nominal service fee. So nominal that a small company won't be able to afford it.
This makes me wonder how the EU anti-Apple/Google app store crowd will react.
liars (Score:2)
They will always cite "safety and security" when they need to explain their actions and don't want to just come out and say because we want more of your money.
I find this announcement incredibly well-timed seeing as Mercedes JUST announced they are paywalling good acceleration.
https://www.engadget.com/mercedes-accelerat [slashdot.org]
Uh-Huh (Score:2)
Just another corporate boogerhead telling us we're doing this odious thing for your own good. If they REALLY cared about customer privacy and safety they would rip out all the telemetry and go with an entirely unencrypted local CANbus with well documented protocols. They might require signed firmware but allow the owner to add additional valid signing keys.
A code reader shouldn't be an expensive extra, it should be built in to the in-dash LCD along with explanatory text.
Switch Car with iPhone, same concept (Score:2)
"People should be allowed to modify their stuff.... Unless it's made by Apple"
Oh boy (Score:2)
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Not at all. The market is just going to move to having to replace the PCM to do tuning. In the USA we're seeing tuning becoming illegal already, for example all the companies making diesel tuners are getting shut down one by one. There used to be two tunes you could get for Sprinter vans (Green Diesel and Malone) and then you couldn't get them in California, and now you just can't get them.
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The status quo is giving free money to industry. That's the path of lease resistance and you won't hear a peep out of the media about that. The only complaint on the cash for clunkers was we were giving poor people money, who would just waste on big screen TVs and game consoles. The arguments at the time were more myopic than imaginable.
Replacing dirty old cars with real infrastructure that the poor can use would have alleviated three major problems in California cities. Transportation, smog, and parking. N
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"Most people need an automobile" is not a natural monopoly. "It costs a lot to build and maintain a sewer system, so nobody tries to be the second company to do it" is a natural monopoly. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand the definition.
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Third line is erroneous, because it proposes there is a natural monopoly question.
There is not, because the definition of a natural monopoly does not apply whatsoever here.
Something becoming essential for society does not make "it a monopoly", or "any company that provides it a monopoly".
That's flat out nonsensical.
However, things that have become essential for society do open themselves up to increased regulation for the good of soci
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No, you don't get to suddenly define 15 different market entities as one to suit your argument.
Original claim was: "That's the proof they want a MONOPOLY in destroying the aftermarket."
Which is fucking nonsensical.
It's not a monopoly precisely because if there is enough market demand for unlocked ECUs, some manufacturer will pop up and make them.
Further, if you are in a market of modifying something, in no fucking way is the manufacturer of that thing beholden to you to keep your market ali
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The average IQ dropped another 5 points today.
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Vendor locks of any kind are abominable.
Merely clapping back at someone spreading misinformation.
Re: The perfect example of monopoly (Score:2)
This was actually RMSâ(TM) argument for GNU software: yes, you should have access to all your software so you can attempt to repair it if you are so inclined.
Re:Did I buy they car (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you have to license, inspect and insure that car? Apparently it's someone's "god dammed business" then.
"It voids the warranty anyways."
Does it void the liability when your mod causes the death of another person?
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Hot Rodding has been a part of American culture since America had car culture.
I'm sure you can point to the numerous deaths and accidents (as opposed to the hundreds of deaths from Firestone tread separation, but heaven forbid you "modify" by installing safer tires) from hot rodders requiring this drastic step from automakers. I can't think of one.
The inspections here are that your brake lights and turn signals work (of you know hand signals otherwise), and your tags are current. Nothing about if your ECM i
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Until you get in an accident ant the insurance company doesn't pay up. Now you're on the hook for everybody's bills.
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
Why wouldnâ(TM)t your insurance pay up? My insurance policy says they will cover me for any liability I may incur. This means they will pay property damage or medical expenses incurred from me while my vehicle is involved. Even if I was drunk or had expired tags. Pretty sure yours is worded similarly, this isnâ(TM)t the 1940s anymore.
That said your insurance company has no obligation to keep you as their insured driver after any accident. But they will pay out for the incident you were involved in
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Why wouldnâ(TM)t your insurance pay up? My insurance policy says they will cover me for any liability I may incur. This means they will pay property damage or medical expenses incurred from me while my vehicle is involved. Even if I was drunk or had expired tags
If you're drunk? I think you should take another look at that policy...
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OK, scratch that, the policy will pay for any damage you caused - that's the point of the coverage.
The difference is that they'll probably turn around and sue you for the money.
And you car insurance will be sky-high for the rest of your life.
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
Unlikely. You might get sued by another property owner or someone injured because DUIs typically bring higher liabilities with it.
It is cheaper for the insurance company to just refuse to insure you for the maximum of the legal limit (typically 5 years but depends on your state)
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Will insurance pay if your modifications caused a safety system to malfunction?
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
Yes. They may drop you afterwards because you have proven you are a risk to insure.
If they find out before you get an accident, they can immediately cancel your insurance. Letâ(TM)s say you have a tweet that is very popular and someone at your insurance company does a casual check and confirms your insured car is the one you are talking about in your tweet. They can cancel your policy because you are a risk.
That all said, you can pay your insurance company more money and they will cover your risk. A lo
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
And in my example I mean a tweet bragging about some safety modification you made to your daily driver
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It's the business of whatever government entity is in charge of ensuring that your vehicle is street legal and safe. And it's their business to check whether the parts used match the legal requirements, not whether they fell off the "correct" conveyor belt or have the corrrect stamp of approval from some maker.
It's by no means the manufacturer's prerogative.
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Does it void the liability when your mod causes the death of another person?
Yes.
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What does liability have to do with anything?
YOU will be liable.
(obviously not the maker - duh!)
You can't just go around putting 1000hp in a car and not expect there to be any safety implications. Your insurance company will rightly refuse to pay up if you haven't declared the modifications and had them inspected.
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
Thatâ(TM)s why you are mandated to carry liability insurance if you drive a vehicle on public roads.
And no modifying your car doesnâ(TM)t make you personally liable in an accident, the insurance company will still pay for the incident since you were covered at the time of the accident. They will refuse to insure you from that moment forward, however.
Re: Did I buy they car (Score:2)
That is a flaw in design versus pinto owners who chose to relocate their gas tank. What Ford could be sued for in my hypothetical scenario is if the gas tank was trivial to move and created a safety risk. A translation could be the lack of encryption on the ECU. Meaning anyone could plug into an odb2 port and reflash the car to change safety systems/settings. This is why every car has some sort of (trivial) encryption protecting the firmware
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You bought and artifact of a enormous, century old, multi-tiered government and quasi-government regulatory regime. That regime places restrictions on what you, the manufacturer, third party manufacturers and anyone that might service that car can legally sell or do. The fact that the manufacturer is further inculcating this mentality into their products (beyond the many ways they already have) will be met with only whole hearted support by that regime and — apart from the choice you have as to whet
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Regardless of how you want to define "buy"...if you, of your own free will, go exchange money for goods that "lock you out", you signed on for these problems. It's because people keep buying stuff like this, that we are heading towards "subscriptions" to already existing hardware on cars. If you are aware, pre-purchase, that your vehicle is a feature locked, service limiting, privacy risk...it's on you, if you still decide to buy it.
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To an extent. There comes a point where the abuses are so ubiquitous that your choices are buy the locked down crap or ride a bicycle to work. Depending on where work is, the second option may not be feasible.
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Nonsense. You absolutely do NOT need to drive a late model vehicle. 20-30 year old vehicles are perfectly capable, comfortable, reliable, and safe. Warranty concerns are a bunch of nonsense...if you have to do a 5, 10, 15 thousand dollar repair...you are still money-ahead vs buying a 30, 40, 50k+ vehicle. The "ExPeNsIvE RePaIR" is just FUD anyway....the chances of you needing to do a repair in that price range are slim, especially if you treat the vehicle well, and do preventative maintenance (i.e. oil
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OK, so everybody in the U.S. resolves to drive nothing newer than 20 years old. Do you really think there are enough 20 year old cars still in drivable condition to meet that demand?
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If everybody in the US resolved not to buy products with strings attached...for the sake of survival, manufacturers would have to sell products without attached strings. Then this all becomes a non-issue.
There are far more 20+ year old vehicles than you realize....because that encompasses all of the manufacturing history of cars, up to 20 years ago. Whereas "late model" is just a 5 year window. A 20 year old vehicle is still a post millennium vehicle...a 30 year old vehicle was made in the 90's...if you
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Actually, I am aware of the older vehicles. I have literally never owned a car lass than 6 years old. Don't forget that the older cars you see out there are the survivors. The lemons are all junked now.
As for changing auto manufacturers behavior, yes, eventually. But there are several phases of 'corporate grief' to be gotten through first. The press statement in TFA is part of the spin harder marketing phase. If that doesn't work, there's hide the treachery better. Then the attempt to make the new feature l
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I remember a time when you bought original parts because the aftermarket parts were actually worse than the original parts. Sure, you could get one, but you didn't. At least if you could at all afford it.
Now, of course, that quality difference is out the window, they have to find another way to keep you paying for their (now) overpriced crap.
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I remember a time when you bought original parts because the aftermarket parts were actually worse than the original parts.
It's still true in many cases. You absolutely want the Motorcraft cam phasers and coil packs for the Mod V8, for example.
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Yes just as soon as every car is it's own cold fusion plant and runs off banana peels and has magical batteries no one is even working on and it flies and travels through time and puts the third and fourth sequels out at the same time because time travel is cool and it all fits in a desire an with Tesla badges.
Yup. Any day now.
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You never owned your car. The state has legally been able to come and take it at the drop of a hat basically since licensing was established, which was very early. And you've never owned the code in the ECU/PCM since that's been a thing, either. You can be deprived of your license on a pretext, etc etc.