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Bitcoin Canada

Canada's Biggest Pension Fund Ends Crypto Investment Pursuit (financialpost.com) 53

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Canada's biggest pension fund, CPP Investments, has ended its nearly year-long effort of studying investment opportunities in the volatile crypto market, Reuters reported Wednesday, citing people familiar with the matter. From the report: The reasons behind CPPI's abandonment of crypto research were not immediately clear. CPPI declined to comment but said it has made no direct investments in crypto. It referred to previous comments on cryptocurrency by its CEO, John Graham, in which he sounded a note of caution. CPPI's Alpha Generation Lab, which examines emerging investment trends, had formed a three-member team in early 2021 to research crypto currencies and blockchain-related businesses, with a view to taking potential exposure, the people added.
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Canada's Biggest Pension Fund Ends Crypto Investment Pursuit More

Canada's Biggest Pension Fund Ends Crypto Investment Pursuit

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  • Distancing themselves (Score:5, Interesting)

    by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @01:06PM (#63110972)
    Yep. As the reality of crypto-coin becomes more apparent, financial institutions are actively distancing themselves from it via their PR & marketing agencies, like this.
    • Crypto is the same as Tulipmania of the 17th century but crypto is tulip bulbs of the 21st century.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Please. "Cryptocoins".

        "Cyrpto" is vital for the internet (as we understand it) to work. Without it you'd need to go back to the internet of 1995...which does have it's points, but it didn't do the same job.

        I'll agree that all the cryptocoins are at best speculative gambles that one can find a "bigger fool", but that's a very small subset of cryptographic uses. (What's troubling is that we need to replace our encryption algorithms soon, and I'm not convinced we have the tools to do it properly. [Of cour

  • Not clear? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by taustin ( 171655 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @01:07PM (#63110976) Homepage Journal

    "The reasons behind CPPI's abandonment of crypto research were not immediately clear. "

    I suspect that crypto being obviously a giant ponzi scam had something to do with it.

    • Re:Not clear? (Score:5, Funny)

      by jobslave ( 6255040 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @01:13PM (#63111010)

      They didn't want to become Canada's smallest pension fund.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I suspect that crypto being obviously a giant ponzi scam had something to do with it.

      Probably. Likely their research into it discovered things like this.

      And likely, Deregulated Finance scares the heck out of them because there is literally nothing they can do if things go sideways - deregulation, after all.

      In other words, a big fat nothingburger other than "Gigantic pension plan researches crypto, decides not to invest".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by taustin ( 171655 )

        In other words, a big fat nothingburger other than "Gigantic pension plan researches crypto, decides not to invest".

        Indeed. The only story here is that they needed to research that in the first place, where people with a normal IQ could see it from Day One without even trying. And that's not exactly and earth shattering revelation.

      • I'm going to pick a nit and point out that this is not deregulated finance, it is unregulated. De-regulated means it was regulated but the regulations were lifted or weakened. Crypto "currencies" were never regulated and thus cannot be de-regulated.

  • Canada's Biggest Pension Fund ... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Canada's Biggest Pension Fund Ends Investment in Ponzi Scheme.

    There, fixed that for you.

  • tons of money. If they started putting money in a year to a year an a half ago their ROI right now is dismal, could be something like a 20%-50% loss.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tailhook ( 98486 )

      Correct. This is the public relations play prior to revealing actual losses. It's being dutifully ricocheted around the media echo chamber and in a few weeks when they start talking about actual loses — late on a Friday — they'll say; "See, we stopped doing that way back when. Nothing to see here. Move along." The "study" part is pure, Canadian Grade A gaslighting: they're in it for few tens or hundreds of million.

      If they weren't they'd have shut down the "study" without a mumbling word an

      • Actually, it was Quebec's pension plan that lost C$200 million [cointelegraph.com] in 10 months via an investment in Celsius.

        Celsius or Fahrenheit, doesn't matter - they're feeling the heat. Cold comfort that they weren't the only ones, as the bankruptcy probably froze them out of getting any money back.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Tailhook ( 98486 )

          Actually, it was

          Well aware. This is a different fund with better PR. They're not going into this all doe-eyed like Quebec's teacher union pension.

          • Re:Probably because they are losing (Score:5, Interesting)

            by lowvisioncomputing ( 10234616 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @02:17PM (#63111354) Homepage Journal

            Actually, it was

            Well aware. This is a different fund with better PR. They're not going into this all doe-eyed like Quebec's teacher union pension.

            It wasn't Quebec's "Teacher's Pension Fund. " - that was Quebec's Caisse de Depot et Placement. You're thinking of the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund, which got taken for USD$95 million in FTX [globalnews.ca], a name we've all become familiar with the last few weeks.

            Nice to see how Pierre Poilievre, the leader of the official opposition and a real crypto bro with a very punchable permanent smirk, who posted how he and his wife would check out crypto updates in bed (well, they're conservatives, what else are they going to do in bed?) has gone all silent on it lately.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Tailhook ( 98486 )

              Right, so we have:

              Quebec's Caisse de Depot et Placement: $150 million
              Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund: $95 million
              CPP Investments: $LOL million

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by dskoll ( 99328 )

                | Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund: $95 million

                Out of $241 Billion. Wow, they blew 0.04% of their value.

                | Quebec's Caisse de Depot et Placement: $150 million

                Out of $391 Billion. Wow, they blew 0.038% of their value.

                • I'm guessing you don't understand how pensions work. When your pension plan has a target of say $4 billion a year earnings to meet current and future pension obligations, and you lose $150 million, that's $150 million that was needlessly blown that can't be reinvested or paid out to pensioners.

                  Do you want to lose 4% off your pension in perpetuity because of that one stupid gamble (because you're also missing out on the reinvestment of that lost money?) Because that's what it boils down to - stupid gambli

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by dskoll ( 99328 )

                    0.04%, not 4%. Read the post. Your 4% is off by two orders of magnitude.

                    The funds are pretty well managed. They have mostly low-risk investments, but IMO it's fine to use a very tiny portion of your funds on riskier investments, just in case they do take off. The downside is negligible and the potential upside modest.

            • he and his wife would check out crypto updates in bed

              Experience has taught him to check out crypto updates on the toilet.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

              Nice to see how Pierre Poilievre, the leader of the official opposition and a real crypto bro with a very punchable permanent smirk, who posted how he and his wife would check out crypto updates in bed (well, they're conservatives, what else are they going to do in bed?) has gone all silent on it lately.

              Well, he did suggest investing in crypto to beat inflation. And I suppose on that front, he's right. After all, you're going to use way more crypto now to buy your food than if you simply used cash. So yes,

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dskoll ( 99328 )

        Did you not read the article? They never invested anything in crypto... they were just researching the possibility.

        And it's not like they're hiding anything. Their annual report is available for download [cppinvestments.com].

        Canadian financial institutions tend to be very conservative and risk-averse compared to US ones, partly because of a different culture and partly because of much stricter government regulations. There's a reason our banks sailed through the 2008 crisis unscathed.

  • I mean seriously, if the last few months havn't proven it to everyone that crypto "coins" have no value, I don't know what else will. Just because a lot of people use something doesn't mean it is worth anything. Crypto is just a digital record with no backing to a physical object. As such it is meaningless and worthless, as anyone can create their own digital ledger with their own "coins" or destroy them and nothing of value was created or destroyed in the process as there is infinite supply.

    • Re:They don't want to be the last in on a ponzi? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lowvisioncomputing ( 10234616 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @02:00PM (#63111286) Homepage Journal

      nothing of value was created or destroyed in the process as there is infinite supply.

      There was a lot of energy that was lost that you can't redeem the crypo coins for. Environmental damage. Artificial shortages of graphics cards.

    • Crypto is just a digital record with no backing to a physical object

      There's nothing (physical) backing the USD either, beyond the paper it's printed on. When you pay with your debit card, there's nobody at Citibank shuffling gold doubloons around on your behalf.

      • The "physical" backing on the USD is the US government (and others) laws and regulations to accept it as legal tender in payment for debt and taxes. It is also the currency standard for international sales globally. You can go into almost any bank in any country in the world and deposit USD or exchange them to the local currency. You can't go do the same with a crypto coin.

        • You said:

          Crypto is just a digital record with no backing to a physical object.

          and:

          The "physical" backing on the USD is the US government (and others) laws and regulations

          So when you said "phsyical object" you mean the laws and regulations of the USA? For your future reference, laws and regulations aren't generally referred to as "physical objects".

          Good attempt at a save though.

      • Crypto is just a digital record with no backing to a physical object

        There's nothing (physical) backing the USD either, beyond the paper it's printed on. When you pay with your debit card, there's nobody at Citibank shuffling gold doubloons around on your behalf.

        It's backed by the US Government, which has a decent history of trying to maintain the value of its currency and ensuring that it's still usable as legal tender in the US.

        There are many countries who have far less stable currencies, where if you don't exchange your currency for something else you're going to lose a lot of wealth [tradingeconomics.com]. And even when currencies are this dysfunctional you're still able to use them locally, suggesting the USD's ability to continue to act as legal tender is very, very, very strong.

        Cr

  • The reasons behind CPPI's abandonment of crypto research were not immediately clear.

    I think I can hazard a guess... Gestures at dumpster filled with burning crypto

  • Others no longer other consideration - Lottery tickets; Gambling on line; VHS tapes; buying old Enron stocks (they could come back you know).

  • Translation: Crypto is a ponzi scheme (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @02:54PM (#63111484) Homepage Journal

    Look, we all know it, but some of us lie to ourselves out of greed.

    It's just a ponzi scheme.

  • Better than never, but probably better to stay away from this pension fund if you have a choice. There are nil-wits at work there.

    • Better than never, but probably better to stay away from this pension fund if you have a choice. There are nil-wits at work there.

      We don't have a choice. Canada Pension Plan is our national pension plan. If you are employed in this country you pay CPP premiums (and (un)Employment Insurance as well, which is separate) with a handful of exceptions. When you turn 65 you can draw on the plan, based on your contributions over the years.

      It is actually well run, with a ten year annualized rate of return on investments of 10%. The population pyramid may at some point start to strain the system, requiring bigger contributions, but consi

    • CPP stands for Canada Pension Plan. This is not just a name. It is a public pension, that literally EVERY Canadian pays into. (Maybe not Quebec, as they are special.) So as a Canadian, I am please to know they are not burning my pension on crypto BS.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dskoll ( 99328 )

      God-DAMMIT, does nobody READ the fucking article? They DID NOT invest in crypto. They spent a while researching it, and then decided not to invest. WTF is wrong with commenters who don't read the article?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        That they needed to investigate it already says enough. Did I claim anywhere they did invest? No. It does not matter. It is enough that they seriously looked at it. And are they late to identify the scam? Yes they are.

  • "The reasons behind CPPI's abandonment of crypto research were not immediately clear. " Seems pretty clear to me, the Ontario Teachers Pension just lost 95 million to FTX. https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/abo... [otpp.com]
  • Money down the drain for anyone born after 1950. None of us will ever see any of the money we have been handing over for our entire working lives. Even if it does survive, we're talking like $400 a month, when rent is $2000. Generation X and younger Canadian will have no retirement. We work until we die. That's just how it is.

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