China Hits Back at US Chip Sanctions With WTO Dispute (arstechnica.com) 39
China has hit back against sweeping US export controls on chips, filing a dispute with the World Trade Organization and escalating the tech war between the two countries. From a report: China's commerce ministry said on Monday its WTO complaint was a legal and necessary measure to defend its "legitimate rights and interests," after the US Department of Commerce introduced sanctions in early October to make it harder for China to buy or develop advanced semiconductors. "At a minimum, the case is about China pushing back on how it's perceived as an unfair actor in the global trading world," said Ben Kostrzewa, an expert on US-China trade relations at Hogan Lovells.
The complaint is the first step in a WTO mediation process, in which the case would normally be put before the Appellate Body. But that body has been suspended due to disagreements among member states, and Kostrzewa said China's complaint was unlikely to "create any legal effect" unless the group resumed its work. The move comes just weeks after US President Joe Biden and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping used their first in-person meeting as leaders to signal a joint desire to improve ties between the world's two biggest economies after relations plunged to a multi-decade low.
The complaint is the first step in a WTO mediation process, in which the case would normally be put before the Appellate Body. But that body has been suspended due to disagreements among member states, and Kostrzewa said China's complaint was unlikely to "create any legal effect" unless the group resumed its work. The move comes just weeks after US President Joe Biden and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping used their first in-person meeting as leaders to signal a joint desire to improve ties between the world's two biggest economies after relations plunged to a multi-decade low.
This is arguably not news because (Score:4, Interesting)
the WTO is in disarray over disagreements that resemble the complaint already. China is essentially suing in a court that's currently dismantled. They might as well ask Elvis to mediate it.
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The news is that China has been reduced to arguing with an empty chair ala Clint Eastwood.
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Mod parent Funny, though I suppose the story as a whole isn't. To me, most of this stuff looks like people pulling the ladders up into the tree house after they have climbed up. Then they want to burn the ladders on the theory "We're never going back down there again! The suckers back on the ground can just rot."
Re:This is arguably not news because (Score:4, Insightful)
The United States was in the treehouse before the WTO, they didn't grow large from it ... only their televisions did. Favourably the WTO was an attempt to raise all boats by providing an equal playing field with dependable regulatory regimes which would also benefit the US, but it was far more essential to developing nations than the US from the start.
I don't see the WTO and "free trade" agreements quite so charitably though. The WTO and international investor protection agreements are a disguised attempt by neofeudalists to put democracy in chains.
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As I intended it, the tree house is developed nation status. The first people to get into the tree house was the first world, by pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. The WTO partially being a ladder extended to developing nations (also partially a way for the first world to lower the cost of consumer goods, also partially a way for first world companies to more easily outsource, also partially a way to chain down the power of democracies).
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"by pulling themselves up by the bootstraps"
those straps were attached to jackboots
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Maybe I should have used a metaphor involving a lottery? They won, and now they want to make sure no one else can buy lottery tickets? How about that version?
My take is that the "influential leaders" of the biggest corporate cancers are calling most of the shots. That includes rigging how the WTO works or doesn't. But they are not "masters of the universe" nor "paragons of moral virtue". They are just lucky winners of lottery. Various qualifications and restrictions applied when they bought they lottery tic
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*sigh* And I thought I read it carefully on preview, too...
s/winners of lottery/winners of lotteries/
I was probably considering the option of "a lottery", but decided they should be regarded as separate lotteries even though they are quite similar in how they work. Kind of like the global usage of "lotto"?
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It was never about an equal playing field. In fact, it was designed to NOT be equal so as to help the undeveloped nations. The problem is that nations like Brazil, Mexico, China, Russia, Taiwan, Singapore, etc are basically developed nations but want to continue to have preferential footing over the west. Most of these 'developing' nations have purposely ignored various areas (helping their citizens, fairness in business, no manipulation of business, no dumping, no subsidies, etc), while contin
Re:This is arguably not news because (Score:5, Interesting)
Mod parent Funny, though I suppose the story as a whole isn't. To me, most of this stuff looks like people pulling the ladders up into the tree house after they have climbed up. Then they want to burn the ladders on the theory "We're never going back down there again! The suckers back on the ground can just rot."
The treehouse and ladder contain at least some portion of truth. However, the story misses the first crucial part. The West built the treehouse and then extended the ladder to China in the 90's. This ladder was accompanied by huge sums of investment money, technology transfer, integration into global markets, and favorable trade terms in the expectation that China would eventually transform into a Western democracy after acquiring the economic wealth that historically characterized Western democracies. The ladder is now being pulled up after the realization that economic wealth is not exclusive to Western democracies and that China not only feels no indebtedness to the West for the economic ladder but instead feels the pull of historical humiliation, leading to what the West interprets as aggression.
That is, the West built the treehouse, extended the ladder to China, and then upon realizing that China intended on upsetting the treehouse, pulled up the ladder. There has always been some measure of suspicion by the West that China had no intension of adopting Western notions of democracy and values. However, it's mostly been the unveiling of Xi Jinping that has transformed suspicion into alarm.
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Partial concurrence, though it sounds like you don't know that much about the Chinese perspective. They are still pissed at us ("the West"?) for the Opium Wars and think the tree house was largely built by the victims of colonial policies. Looking at the LONG history, they think that it's only natural for China to lead the world. Also natural to have some kind of Chinese dictatorship with the "Mandate of Heaven" in charge of things.
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It's a formality. They are doing a $150bn support package for affected Chinese companies too. Getting the WTO complaint in is to legitimise that and give them a forum to air their grievances.
They don't expect the WTO to help.
China think they'll get favorable ruling from WTO? (Score:2)
Cold War 2.0 (Score:2)
China doesn't follow WTO rules (Score:5, Informative)
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The US has ignored WTO rulings before as well.
Re:China doesn't follow WTO rules (Score:5, Informative)
True, but China's economic policies have always been directly in contravention of WTO rules; they require you to partner with a Chinese corporation, they didn't protect IP, etc etc. Whether the WTO is a force for good or evil is outside of the scope of this comment, but China clearly never even tried to play by the rules to which they agreed
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I have news for you, China isn't the only one doing that stuff.
I'm a previous job I had a US state government trying to steal our technology. Had to set to a subsidiary in the US to block it, as they aren't allowed to compete against US companies.
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What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:2)
The US has said it is worried about China getting access to advanced chips. What exactly does the US think China would do with these advanced chips that would be so bad for the US?
Re:What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:4, Informative)
use them in weapons of war.
Or sell them to their hand puppet Russia to do the same with.
Re:What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:4)
Real Politiks or do you want some international law kosher excuse? Because the second doesn't exist.
Real Politiks, Taiwan is a vassal to the US and a first line of defence for other allies in the region, as well as holding one of the most important strategic assets in the world at the moment in the form of TSMC. With their own state of the art semiconductor industry China would be less dependent on the unimpeded functioning of Taiwan and thus increase the probability of China's dictator du jour blockading Taiwan to force them into obeying the One China dictats a little closer.
Re:What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Given that they have made little effort to hide their desire to take...
...people's organs??
Re: What exactly is the US concerned about? (Score:1)
If I had mod point, Iâ(TM)d mod you -1000 stupidest shit I've read today.
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3G? 4G? 5G? it all runs on semiconductor modems owned by Qualcomm.
Processors? Intel has competition these days at the high end, but their competition is either American companies or companies from friendly nations.
Manufacturing? It's pretty much Global Foundries (owned by Saudi Arabia, but manufacturing mostly in the US) and TSMC which relies on unofficial US patronage through the strategic ambiguity doctrine for survival.
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No they do not. Nor should they.
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See how China is busy sending it's citizens it doesn't like to reeducation camps? See how they have a "social credit score" where they encourage people to rat out their neighbors?
Give enough technology, China could eventually rule the entire world and no local population would be able to do anything about it. The only thing that really stops this from happening is the West.
So yeah, we worry about giving them advanced chips because with enough weapons and technology, they could both win the last war and inst
Fuck China. (Score:2)
Fuck China.
Ohh NOW they care about the WTO (Score:5, Insightful)
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Right, it's not like the US would ever use prison slave labour, or have a corrupt court system that wrongly rules in favour of US companies in intellectual property disputes.
They should be happy about the last few decades. (Score:3)
You started it, Xi (Score:2)
You took dictatorial powers and starting making moves that the US doesn't like, then whine that we make moves you don't like. FA&FO.