Dell Concept Laptop Has Pop-Out Components, Disassembles Screwdriver-Free (arstechnica.com) 68
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Dell continues tinkering with what it hopes to be a repairable laptop like the Framework Laptop. Last year, it showed off Concept Luna, a clamshell designed to easily disassemble for easy repairs, upgrades, and harvested components. This year, Dell showed the press an updated Concept Luna that could support more power while being even simpler to dismantle. The vendor is also exploring how to automate the process, from disassembly to parts diagnostics, on a broad scale. Dell's Concept Luna laptop is comparable in size to a Latitude with some Dell XPS 13 Plus-like stylings. In person, it looked similar to the Concept Luna demoed last year, including appearing to be a functioning PC. But Dell's representative was able to open this year's version up and pull out internal parts much more rapidly -- well under 60 seconds.
The computer was easier to take apart because it doesn't have screws (last year's Concept Luna had four). Dell's rep simply stuck a pin (it could be anything that fits, they said) into a hole in the security lock slot on the right side of the system's deck. That allowed Dell's rep to pull off the keystone north of the keyboard and then slide the keyboard up and out. Once the system was open, the speakers, fan, motherboard, and battery were removed instantly thanks to pop-out modules, which, Dell said, are recyclable. The concept laptop also got rid of the cable connecting the battery, so there are no cables, adhesives, or other types of connectors.
Dell built Concept Luna with simple display upgrades and repairs in mind as well. Dell's spokesperson promptly removed the system's LCD by inserting a pin into a hole in a keystone south of the screen and then took off the keystone, releasing a latch underneath the piece, and plucked the display off the chassis. There's also potential for better accommodations for beefier components in the updated Concept Luna. Last year's version used passive cooling, while the new one has a fan. The fans lock into the motherboard, keeping it in place. A tech giant like Dell releasing something like Concept Luna could certainly give the younger Framework a run for its money, but Dell still isn't talking about releasing a laptop with Concept Luna's repairability. And it could ultimately decide not to. However, in addition to advancing the laptop's design this year, Dell also looked into automation techniques that could further this concept on a scale that could extend beyond a single product.
The computer was easier to take apart because it doesn't have screws (last year's Concept Luna had four). Dell's rep simply stuck a pin (it could be anything that fits, they said) into a hole in the security lock slot on the right side of the system's deck. That allowed Dell's rep to pull off the keystone north of the keyboard and then slide the keyboard up and out. Once the system was open, the speakers, fan, motherboard, and battery were removed instantly thanks to pop-out modules, which, Dell said, are recyclable. The concept laptop also got rid of the cable connecting the battery, so there are no cables, adhesives, or other types of connectors.
Dell built Concept Luna with simple display upgrades and repairs in mind as well. Dell's spokesperson promptly removed the system's LCD by inserting a pin into a hole in a keystone south of the screen and then took off the keystone, releasing a latch underneath the piece, and plucked the display off the chassis. There's also potential for better accommodations for beefier components in the updated Concept Luna. Last year's version used passive cooling, while the new one has a fan. The fans lock into the motherboard, keeping it in place. A tech giant like Dell releasing something like Concept Luna could certainly give the younger Framework a run for its money, but Dell still isn't talking about releasing a laptop with Concept Luna's repairability. And it could ultimately decide not to. However, in addition to advancing the laptop's design this year, Dell also looked into automation techniques that could further this concept on a scale that could extend beyond a single product.
Does it have a ... (Score:2)
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The clito, in France we call this the clito, I have one on my Lenovo keyboard
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The clito, in France we call this the clito, I have one on my Lenovo keyboard
In English English, it's the clit mouse.
It's OK, I own a screwdriver (Score:5, Insightful)
However, a screwdriver is a nice, simple tool that ensure a rugged connection...more so than pins or any weird snap magic. I don't need to hot-swap hard drives, just be able to repair them and for that, a screwdriver is perfect. You don't need to make the experience screwdriver-free, Dell!!!
If anything, being able to take it apart easily is a minor risk as a more casual thief or curious child could strip parts from my device more easily.
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Threadlock FTW! (Score:3)
Latches can actually be more secure than screws -- I own Thinkpads and you often have to retighten the bottom cover screws periodically to keep them from falling out.
I used to have that problem until I discovered Threadlock [amazon.com] It was a minor life-changer for me as we have a bunch of stools that are always coming apart. When I show it to people, they're often amazed...it's a shame that product isn't better-known.
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Low yield thread locker is perfectly acceptable to use on your tiny little laptop screws. In fact, many laptop screws come with thread locker on them. If you buy a storage kit for a system like that from the vendor, they send you new screws with preapplied blue thread locker, just like it was a VW product and you were installing a parts kit. (Seems like most of the bolts outside of the engine on my A8 said to use them only once, despite not being TTY bolts, and it was just about thread locker.)
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I tend to agree - screws, done right, tend to be more secure, and anyone who doesn't own a screwdriver is probably better off not trying to service an appliance anyway. Even a simple one.
On the other hand I've had some very nice screw-free desktops cross my path over the years - including I think a few from Dell. Done right they're quite robust and convenient.
As for being a risk, I don't see it. Anyone willing to steal components is more likely to just steal the whole thing - it's faster and more profita
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Yes, screwdrivers are OK. But today's Dell laptops sometimes require you to disassemble the entire case, and remove the keyboard, disconnecting a bunch of flimsy cables, just to replace the SSD or sometimes the memory. If they want to go to a fully modular design, I'm all for that, with or without a screwdriver!
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Against screwdrivers (Score:4, Informative)
Having finally read the article there is one big downside to screws worth considering: They're looking to shift toward automated component salvage, and robots tend to have a really hard time with screws, especially the sort of low-profile screws used in a laptop (Nice deep hex or Torx screws tend to be easier to deal with).
It's not *as* big a deal with assembly, when everything is in pristine condition - but a screw that has an even slightly stripped head, or that has been cross-threaded or corroded in place, can be difficult for even a human to remove. And I'm willing to bet a laptop designed for streamlined maintenance and salvage is also a lot faster and easier to assemble at the factory. That could be especially beneficial to a company like Dell that offers a huge range of customization options during purchase - you just have to enter the desired configuration into the assembler and 60 seconds later it pops out a fully assembled laptop built to order.
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Magnetic screwdrivers are good for putting screws in more easily - they don't really contribute anything to taking them out. Except not dropping the screw afterwards I suppose.
The problems with unscrewing via robot are, I think:
- lining up the screwdriver tip with the screw head (relatively minor I would think)
- applying appropriate pressure to be able to unscrew it, without breaking anything (moderate)
- especially if the screw is stuck, stripped, or has a stripped head. Any of which can potentially requi
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A little more detail on the second point - Phillips screws + drivers (which is what are what's usually used on low profile heads) have ramped edges that were specifically designed to make the screwdriver easily cam out of the screw to reduce damage to the screw head (or shaft) from over-torquing in normal use.
That becomes a problem if the screw gets jammed for any reason, so that it *requires* over-torquing, as stress on the screw head increases dramatically when not fully engaged with the driver, but also
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Phillips screws should be banned. They were designed for doing screws up to a specific torque (controlled by the axial pressure) in early robotic assembly lines. The driver rode up out of the screw when the torque was reached and of course the robot kept it in line - unlike a human user who might well then gouge the surrounding paint or woodwork. There was no thought given to un
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The problem is Pozidriv screws look like Phillips screws, and thus often people use Phillips screws in place of Pozidriv.
They are NOT interchangeable, and using a Phillips in a Pozidriv will result in camout and stripping the heads.
That's the reason why modern manufacturing went towards Torx screws - they offer the same advantages of Pozidriv, but without the headaches caused by su
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I will say magnetic drivers can be quite nice even with Torx, square/Robertson, etc. so that the screw doesn't fall off even if the driver is pointed downwards. For example when screwing down decking, or getting a screw into some weird hard to reach place.
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I debated about mentioning pozidirve - but I've never actually seen on on a low-profile head - I think maybe they need more depth to engage properly?
Plus, if you're not using the widely-supported Philips head you should really go with one of the much superior heads rather than the mildly improved hack that invites everyone to screw it up using a Philips driver.
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Apple's the only one not adding to landfills (Score:2)
Is it really better the landfills are filled with separate laptop parts instead of whole ones?
Landfills are going to be swamped with eWaste thanks primarily to companies like Apple,
In Apple's case the laptops (and phones) generally will not be in landfills because Apple recycles them for the raw materials (they have some target date where they will have no mined metals, at least for phones) and give you trade-in money for doing so.
So it's really just these individual parts from this laptop and others that w
Yes, it's better to be filled with parts! (Score:1)
Is it really better the landfills are filled with separate laptop parts instead of whole ones?
Very much so. With a MacBook, if my SSD dies outside the warranty period, I have to discard the laptop and purchase a new one, so if there are 100 parts, I have to recycle 99 of them and they have to manufacture 100 more. With a Dell, I can discard one part and they only have to manufacture one more...or I can go 3rd party and upgrade.
Apple recycles them for the raw materials (they have some target date where they will have no mined metals, at least for phones) and give you trade-in money for doing so.
Only for functioning gear. If your iPad or Macbook is broken, you get nothing. And regardless, what is better than recycling?...never throwing it away in the first place.
Re: Removable phone batteries: Worst sin of all (Score:2)
"Prior to the iPhone phones broke way more often.."
Is this in some parallel universe?
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Honestly the fact you believe what you wrote in the title isn't even hilarious anymore. At this point we're genuinely concerned about your mental wellbeing.
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Repairable, upgradeable laptop? Yes please!!!! We need these and we need them yesterday. Landfills are going to be swamped with eWaste thanks primarily to companies like Apple, which make their expensive devices as disposable as possible. If I take care of a laptop, I want to keep it for 10 years. While I'll obviously not use it as my primary device, I can always use it as a backup or specialty device and it will stay out of a landfill and prevent me from needing to buy whatever specialty device I could build with it. For example, computers for my kids, networking devices, CNC computer, etc.
However, a screwdriver is a nice, simple tool that ensure a rugged connection...more so than pins or any weird snap magic. I don't need to hot-swap hard drives, just be able to repair them and for that, a screwdriver is perfect. You don't need to make the experience screwdriver-free, Dell!!!
If anything, being able to take it apart easily is a minor risk as a more casual thief or curious child could strip parts from my device more easily.
The biggest problem with working on a modern laptop is that everything is soldered in but you can still get laptops that support upgrading (at least to an extent). I bought one such laptop (Asus TUF gaming A15) and the major issue I had was just getting the case open without damaging it. Thanks to YouTube I managed it and replaced the 512 GB SSD with a 1 TB and added an extra 8 GB of RAM. Back in the 00's an old school Dell had a flap covering the RAM that could be removed with one screw and and the hard d
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Thinking this concept through, it sounds great...but if it means COTS parts no longer apply then very much no thanks. If I have to buy the "DELL Modular SSD" for 2x the price ... just give me back the screws.
Honestly? Just go back a couple generations where SSD/RAM were swappable and you extend the life of a computer by 50% or more. Allow replacing the keyboard too? Or screen? Even better. All this USED TO be possible (and somewhat is for enterprise laptops) but they engineered it out to save an extra
Border officers will love it (Score:2)
They'll have it easier to install hardware implants on targets' devices.
Seductive Trash (Score:5, Interesting)
This idea is a seductive trash. It sounds fantastic, but the market is way too small. The problem is that about one percent of the time people actually upgrade stuff. Instead people replace computers, and this is not helpful.
This system locks you into one manufacturer. Which means when you want to your do not get what you want and you pay too much. By the time you want a new chip if you do not need a new motherboard, you also need more memory or a new video card, or a new hard drive.
But the worst part is, if you are not technically skilled enough to replace a memory card the old fashioned way then chances are you are not technically skilled enough to KNOW whether you need to upgrade something.
Make no mistake about this, this is something I personally would love. Save me a ton of time. But for this to be a profitable business it either has to be a) very expensive or b) an open standard that everyone would be using, allowing for competition and choice among parts.
So, while this sounds lovely, it will not work as a business.
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The problem is that about one percent of the time people actually upgrade stuff. Instead people replace computers, and this is not helpful.
Sure, but is that simply because they can't easily replace/upgrade parts, especially on laptops? It seems it would be simpler, and more desirable, to just replace or upgrade an easily replaceable part than the entire system, especially when the entire system doesn't need it.
Agreed that many people may not have (or not feel they have) the skills/experience to replace components -- even though it's actually not that complicated from a component standpoint (ignoring laptop/phone glue and assembly issues) -
Re: Seductive Trash (Score:2)
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This idea is a seductive trash. It sounds fantastic, but the market is way too small.
The market is corporations large enough to do their own in-house maintenance (or small enough to have to, because they can't afford spares, I guess?) If they can swap parts they will, then they don't have to keep as many spares. It also potentially benefits Dell, because screws cost money, and putting in screws is expensive.
This system locks you into one manufacturer. Which means when you want to your do not get what you want and you pay too much. By the time you want a new chip if you do not need a new motherboard, you also need more memory or a new video card, or a new hard drive.
The benefit is repair more than upgrade. However, one day there could be meaningful standards for some of these parts. For example there is a standard for laptop video cards called MXM,
Nonsense, they call me...I'll do it for beer! (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that about one percent of the time people actually upgrade stuff. Instead people replace computers, and this is not helpful.
This system locks you into one manufacturer. Which means when you want to your do not get what you want and you pay too much. By the time you want a new chip if you do not need a new motherboard, you also need more memory or a new video card, or a new hard drive.
But the worst part is, if you are not technically skilled enough to replace a memory card the old fashioned way then chances are you are not technically skilled enough to KNOW whether you need to upgrade something.
If you're not smart enough to upgrade your devices, you just call your friend who knows how. I've done this for so many women and their parents and my own. I fixed a woman's computer once in college and it made her so happy she had sex with me that day (she probably was bored that day). People have bartered for computer help from me all throughout the 90s and 2000s (though nothing will live up that one time).
Also, regardless of your arguments of seductive trash, if a part can be replaced, it can be up
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I fixed a woman's computer once in college and it made her so happy she had sex with me that day (she probably was bored that day).
Think you just inadvertently wrote the most compelling job advert for computer techs of all time.
Re:Nonsense, they call me...I'll do it for beer! (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow. Your just said women are not smart, and one day you showed them how smart you were they had sex with you because they were bored.
Seriously re-read your post. Regardless of what point you're trying to make all that happened is you portrayed yourself like a sexist misogynistic PoS that is normally reserved for caricatures of the way feminists see all men.
So if you want to put someone down... (Score:1)
Wow. Your just said women are not smart, and one day you showed them how smart you were they had sex with you because they were bored.
Seriously re-read your post. Regardless of what point you're trying to make all that happened is you portrayed yourself like a sexist misogynistic PoS that is normally reserved for caricatures of the way feminists see all men.
...check your grammar first. If you're itching to put someone down and feel superior, at least proofread your own sentences and learn how to use punctuation.
The bored comment is self-deprecating because it was unusual circumstances...100% true, but an attempt to portray it was an outlier. Sorry, apparently my humor sucks.
Also, YOU inferred women aren't smart. You're making a lot of assumptions that seem pretty desperate to me, starting with assuming I hung around as many non-technical men. I hones
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...check your grammar first. If you're itching to put someone down and feel superior, at least proofread your own sentences and learn how to use punctuation.
Sorry, I only speak 5 languages and English isn't the first one I learnt. But since that's how you think you can start a counterpoint let me just say go fuck yourself. Did I spell that correctly?
Not sure what else you wrote, you clearly aren't worth the time to communicate with. Go impress some inferior women with your penis or something.
Perhaps you should claim you only speak 4? (Score:1)
Sorry, I only speak 5 languages and English isn't the first one I learnt. But since that's how you think you can start a counterpoint let me just say go fuck yourself. Did I spell that correctly?
Not sure what else you wrote, you clearly aren't worth the time to communicate with. Go impress some inferior women with your penis or something.
You start a response with calling me a piece of shit and are offended because I point out your grammar mistakes in response? Think about that for a second. You started the negativity. English fluency aside, your argument isn't very impressive or thoughtful. Don't assume the English language is the only thing holding you back. Your logic is unimpressive as well.
Also, fuck off with the "I speak 5 languages" superiority trip. Speaking and fluency are two different things. It's a cool thing you can bra
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I think many laptops are upgradable enough. If you look at ThinkPads, for example, you can get ones with sockets for RAM and 2x NVMe drives.
The problem is usually the lower end devices where they solder stuff to reduce costs.
RAM is also an issue because in a laptop form factor it's difficult to route traces for higher speed modules. You either have soldered high speed RAM, or slower socketed RAM. On Ryzen machines in particular RAM speed really matters.
Beyond that you have Thunderbolt/USB 4 now so there are
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This system locks you into one manufacturer.
That is a problem with IP law; we ought to just eliminate all intellectual monopoly protection, except what's necessary to combat counterfeiting or impersonation. Then standardization of the parts becomes a selling point, competition works as intended, and people can choose parts they actually want.
Can you clean the fan? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's all I really want to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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My lady has a Toshiba T900 that has a little frame that pulls out of the bottom, it's right at the entry to the heat sink so most of the dust collects there and pulls out of the bottom. But in a residential context where you have grease in the air sometimes, you still have to open the thing up occasionally and clean out the fan itself.
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If you do this every 6 month or so, your computer will never overheat due
In practice, upgrading often doesn't do much (Score:2)
By the time you need to add more memory, or increase the speed or size of the hard drive, your machine is old enough that integral components are also bottlenecks. For example, the bus itself has a speed, so there's only so much you can improve by installing a faster processor.
Re:In practice, upgrading often doesn't do much (Score:4, Insightful)
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In an ideal world, you should be able to treat an SSD similarly to how floppies or Nintendo cartridges worked in the 80s.
I’m ok with using a bit of tape or a hand punch to set if it’s writable or not, but I draw the line at having to blow into the unit or use an eraser to get it to load properly.
Flimsy plastic clips (Score:2)
Those screwdriver-free plastic clips often break when you try to disassemble components. For some things, screws are just better.
Concept to production tends to lose features (Score:1)
Could be a better deal, even for Dell (Score:2)
I imagine that a well designed repairable laptop with easily replaceable components could be more profitable for Dell as the individual components could be slightly more expensive than those in current laptops and many (most?) people would be willing to pay that markup for the ability and convenience. In addition, it could cut down on e-waste as people could replace/upgrade individual parts as needed rather than having to replace the entire laptop and those individual parts would probably be easier to rec
Ports are still fragile. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm delighted to see a major manufacturer moving in this direction. Kudos to them if they actually bring it to market, and kudos to Framework for proving there was a demand for it. And it's wonderful to see another laptop where you go in through the keyboard panel rather than though the back. It is after all the mechanical components on a laptop that are most likely to fail, and they tend to be some of the most difficult to reach.
One detail I still strongly prefer with Framework though is the easily replaceable ports. In my experience broken ports tend to be one of the most common hardware problems with laptops - power and headphone cords get yanked, USB sticks get knocked, and very often a broken port means circuit board damage that can't be easily re-soldered. Heck, even without circuit board damage, finding a matching replacement port and soldering those tiny little pins by hand is a challenge. Especially on a video port, or if there's lots of other components clustered around the contacts.
I don't know about the whole Framework expansion cartridge thing, seems like something that may be more cool idea than practical reality. But I'm strongly in favor of at least putting ports on an easily replaceable daughter-board.
Quit with the useless crap (Score:2)
I'll give Dell some props for repairability (Score:2)
Just the other day I needed to do some fixing on my Dell laptop. I kept looking for a service manual, assuming that's where the instructions would be.
I was wrong. Full disassembly instructions, with pictures, were in the owner's manual.
It was nice to not be treated like an idiot.
Pop-out, Lock-in (Score:2)
Though the components pop out, I'm willing to bet it's all proprietary stuff to lock in.
Just long enough to look good and kill framework.. (Score:2)
"Tool-free" (Score:1)
Glue is the issue not standard screwdriver. (Score:2)
solving those jungle temple puzzles (Score:2)
No Screwdriver? (Score:2)
I might lend or even give them one, I must have several hundred : from about 1mm to about 25mm (for a 1/2" drive system). I have slotted, Pozidriv, Phillips, Torx, Allen, and probably some I have forgotten. I have entire systems : jeweller's screwdrivers, a 1/4" drive system (two of those, I got one free at a gas station), a Makita system, the 1/2" drive system. "Hand
Mainly for profit, repairability second (Score:2)
Overdoing it (Score:2)
I love the idea of a highly repairable/upgradable laptop.
But when it says "hey look, you don't even need a screwdriver" I can't stop but think "where is the catch". Screws have never been a problem, especially when done right. I can get a screwdriver (in fact, I always have one with me), you may even throw a cheap one in the box if you want to make a point. The only parts where I like not needing a screwdriver are those that are hot-swappable, like the battery in some laptops.
So why insist on improving what
I love this in theory (Score:3)
I love this in theory. My concern is that in practice all the seams and connectors (latches, screws) introduce points of failure. The reason that Apple, etc., laptops have become so unified and hard to work on is that the result is more reliable in the field because all the battery doors, etc., were causes of failures due to water, etc., getting into the laptops, and they drive up the complexity and thus cost of manufacturing. But if a more repairable laptop can be at least as reliable that would be fantastic!
Snap connectors are bullshit (Score:2)
I mean, this is the last audience I think I'd have to explain why.
Suffice to say the concept of snap connectors is great (hopefully) the first, second, maybe even third time you have to use them. But beyond that (and sometimes not even to the first use) the idea that a more-or-less 'permanent' connection is going to be frictionfit relies entirely too much on reliable materials behavior that is fundamentally dynamic (ie flexing enough, but not too much or too little) over time and conditions and repeated us
And? (Score:2)
This isn't going to help if the memory or ssd is soldered to the MB.