USPS Expects To Only Buy Electric Delivery Vehicles Starting in 2026 (engadget.com) 183
The United States Postal Service said it expects to buy more than 66,000 electric vehicles by the end of 2028 in a significant change from previous plans. From a report: In February, the USPS said it would purchase 5,000 fully electric versions of the Next Generation Delivery Vehicle, with gas-powered trucks accounting for the remaining 45,000 of the initial order. After pushback from the Biden administration and resistance to that from the USPS, the agency has gradually increased the proportion of EVs in the order.
Now, the postal service aims to buy at least 60,000 Next Generation Delivery Vehicles by 2028, at least 75 percent of which will be electric models. Starting in 2026, the USPS expects that all NGDV acquisitions will be electric versions. The NGDVs are expected to start operating on delivery routes late next year. In addition, the agency plans to buy another 21,000 off-the-shelf EVs through 2028. Overall, the USPS plans to buy 106,000 delivery vehicles by the end of 2028 to start replacing its aging, inefficient and not-as-safe fleet of more than 220,000 vehicles. That means the agency still expects to buy around 40,000 gas-powered models over the next six years. The USPS said in a statement that the feasibility of fully electrifying the fleet "will continue to be explored." However, it believes there will be more EV availability in the future, which will certainly help.
Now, the postal service aims to buy at least 60,000 Next Generation Delivery Vehicles by 2028, at least 75 percent of which will be electric models. Starting in 2026, the USPS expects that all NGDV acquisitions will be electric versions. The NGDVs are expected to start operating on delivery routes late next year. In addition, the agency plans to buy another 21,000 off-the-shelf EVs through 2028. Overall, the USPS plans to buy 106,000 delivery vehicles by the end of 2028 to start replacing its aging, inefficient and not-as-safe fleet of more than 220,000 vehicles. That means the agency still expects to buy around 40,000 gas-powered models over the next six years. The USPS said in a statement that the feasibility of fully electrifying the fleet "will continue to be explored." However, it believes there will be more EV availability in the future, which will certainly help.
Finally; sounds like a reasonable approach (Score:5, Insightful)
EVs are perfect for all those short haul, stop/starting all the time trips.
What in the hell took them so long to come to their senses?
Re:Finally; sounds like a reasonable approach (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Finally; sounds like a reasonable approach (Score:5, Informative)
The mission for almost all of Trump's high level appointees was to:
- Prove that government was inefficient by doing a terrible job
- Destroy the departments from within
There were big name anti-federalists whispering in Trump's ears, and this has been a goal of theirs for decades.
The USPS has long been one of the better run government services, often paying for its own budget, and this infuriates the anti government people who want to privatize literally everything (including the military). DeJoy was their wet dream.
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Amtrak is not a good example here though. They were a bunch of bloody awful and incompetent tossers who couldn't hack it even before COVID. Perhaps a better way to handle them would have been to fire the entirely benighted lot and contract any of the regional JR operators from Japan to rebuild Amtrak from the ground up. (JR, or Japan Rail, are the operators of, amongst others, the Yamanote line in Tokyo and the various Shinkansen.). And if JR isn't interested, the TGV and ICE, from France and Germany re
Re: Finally; sounds like a reasonable approach (Score:2)
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Part of it was that competent people didn't want to work for Trump. And if they did (out of a sense of civic duty), then they were treated poorly by Trump, and abused by the opposition party, like Bill Barr.
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"DeJoy to the world;
Your package wont come.
You wont / receive / a thing."
oldie but goodie. sad that its still true even 3 years later.
Re:Finally; sounds like a reasonable approach (Score:5, Interesting)
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What in the hell took them so long to come to their senses?
Lobbyists and a political party with an aversion to change.
But the grid can't handle the capacity!
Sounds like the free market to me. Customer demand will drive grid upgrades. You have a product that customers are demanding more of? Oh no what a problem for a company to have.
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And then the environmentalists will sue to require decades of studies and planning to ensure new transmission lines and power generation plants do not impact any insects.
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Unlikely. All the major environmental groups, i.e. the ones with enough funding for serious lawsuits, have been pushing for building new infrastructure for decades.
Greenpeace first started publishing its 100% renewable grid engineering studies back in the 2000s.
Here we go (Score:2)
But my mail carrier drives 400 miles uphill both ways every single day and an EV can't possibly work for them!
Yes that may be true. But the vast majority of mail routes are fixed with many stops and starts. Textbook case for an EV. So yes in certain situations an EV may not be best, and that's ok.
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There are a few routes that are long and occur in locations where it's very cold and they need to have chains on the tires. Those will be hard to manage with EVs, for the other routes EVs will be fine.
The longest route from my post office Is 75 miles, so if the vehicle can manage that at -10 F with chains on the wheels and say 6" of new snow, there is the benchmark the EV needs to meet.
China approves this message (Score:2)
How about having once a week free delivery and if you want it sooner, pay for it or go to the post office and pick it up.
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No.
https://www.kxly.com/cheney-re... [kxly.com]
Perfect use case for an EV (Score:3)
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Re: Perfect use case for an EV (Score:2)
I've got a better idea (Score:2)
Instead of spending a lot of money on electric vehicles how about Congress passes a law allowing people to opt out of junk mail?
For me personally, probably 80% of the mail I receive is junk mail that goes immediately into the trash and eventually a landfill site somewhere. While electric vehicles are better for the environment, cutting down trees to make paper that goes to the trash pile isn't.
Let's suppose for a moment that I get more junk mail than the average person. Instead of 80% maybe 50% is a better
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"junk mail funds the post office." - Really? That's the only way they can make money is by killing trees? Doesn't sound like a very good business model to me. Then again, FedEx and UPS are alive and well precisely because the Post Office does such a horrible job.
"that's like saying cable bills would be cheaper if they didn't show commercials." - See above. That's why Netflix, etc. have been so successful. Cable companies are dinosaurs, just like the Post Office.
Left out from the article: The cost (Score:2)
With the original order the cost was about $36k/vehicle, but if the mix went from 10% EV to 90% EV it went up to about $60k/vehicle https://insideevs.com/news/490... [insideevs.com]
According to this: https://www.greatbusinessschoo... [greatbusinessschools.org] they drive about 5300 miles/year.
On that basis it will take many years to break even on pre-purchasing $24k in fuel.
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Missing from your time-to-breakeven is any mention of the fact that EVs have much lower maintenance costs. Fewer parts to break. Fewer fluids to worry about. The motor and (fixed, single-speed) transmission are good practically forever. Brakes are used less heavily (pretty significant for stop-and-go cargo carriers). And so on.
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where to vehicles spend the night (Score:2)
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Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Insightful)
Weird how people in Canada own electric vehicles. It's almost like electric vehicles are fine in the snow.
Of course, just like with ICE vehicles, electric vehicles need some extra preparation for the snow and are less efficient. But they still work fine, and perform well within what is required for 99%+ of USPS routes.
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One by-product of ICE is the heat. Instead of casting off the heat you can use it to de-frost/warm the vehicle in winter. For electric vehicles energy is diverted to heat the car. Then there is the general loss of range a cold battery experiences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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It's far more efficient that using a tiny fraction of the waste heat from the engine to warm the cabin and defrost the windows.
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All energy eventually makes its way to thermal energy so every machine is 100% efficient at generating heat I suppose.
In your case that thermal energy was supposed to be used for mechanical energy. Even if it was at 100% efficient, 100% of that energy was supposed to be used elsewhere.
In the case of ICE that thermal energy was going to become heat anyways and is already factored in for range etc. So any positive use of it is essentially free.
If you want your position to be correct, and being correct means
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He isn't directly wrong, and you're of course spot on.
It is more efficient to generate the heat directly than to use the waste heat of the highly inefficient combustion engine.
But you are right that waste is waste, and your electricity->mechanical efficiency doesn't change in a combustion engine. It stays very stable at "bad", while in an electric vehicle, it goes from "amazing", to "amazing but less"
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That's not a byproduct, it's wasted energy in the form of heat.
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"That's not wasted energy in the form of heat, it's unnecessary output in the form of thermal energy -- pal."
"That's not unnecessary output in the form of thermal energy, it's unaccounted for energy in the form of vibrating atoms -- champ."
"That's not unaccounted for energy in the form of vibrating atoms, it's excess energy in the form of kinetic entropy -- chief."
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Informative)
Or Norway. Famous for being sunny and warm 365/year!
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oil changes can be every 50k or more miles
EVs have no engine oil. The bearings are lubricated, but they are sealed and good for the life of the car.
Just top up the wiper fluid and check the tires.
Disclaimer: I've been driving an EV since 2015.
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Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had electric vehicles for the past 8 years in a climate where we get many feet of snow plus, of course, cold.
Never any problems.
They are 4WD and are the best snow cars I have ever owned.
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Range loss in cold weather is real. Trying to tell people that it's not is what leads to new EV drivers complaining the first cold day in the Fall. Look at any EV forum and it's spammed with range issues every Fall/Winter. If you want people to not replace their first EV with ICE, you can't hide inconvenient facts from them and claim all such things are Big Oil propaganda.
People doing 10-20 mile commutes/errands in cold climates can do fine with an EV. The issue with USPS is the trucks are out all day o
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That's the worst-case scenario for losing the highest fraction of range to heat, because you're warming up the cabin and battery just for a short trip. And if the trip starts somewhere the car is not plugged in, the battery warmer draws from the battery.
A delivery truck is the opposite. It starts from the motor pool where it charges overnight, so in the morning it's charged up and warmed up, and doesn't cool off between t
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Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Informative)
Are the postal trucks in urban and suburban areas doing more than 100 miles per day? Remember that EVs are at their BEST in slow-speed stop-and-go traffic, since losses from air resistance are low and they can use regen to stop.
I wonder if they could give the postal workers a heated vest and gloves like WW2 bomber pilots had....
They're still buying 40% gas trucks for very rural routes.
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The average rural mail route is 45 miles long and serves 493 mailboxes. [grit.com]
So, this implies that almost all non-rural routes (which should be most of them) are well in a 100 mile range, and most rural routes are good too. Of the remaining ones, many of those use personal vehicles with a vehicle allowance and will probably continue. Plus the 100 mile range is accurate now, but I'd expect over time that range will creep up as battery tech slowly improves.
Wow, 5 minutes of using Google. Too bad you couldn't do
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:4, Insightful)
You better let all the EV owners in Maine know this before its too late!
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Is there even a Main street in Maine to worry about this?
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Informative)
Turns out you can do much better traction control with electric motors, adjusting every millisecond, than you can with internal combustion engines. Also much easier to put an motor in every wheel with EVs. So yeah, electric motors work better in snow. Current Lithium batteries don't work as well in the cold, but the solid state batteries don't seem to have that weakness.
I originally thought EV's had individual motors and was surprised to find they didn't.
Here is why: https://evcentral.com.au/why-d... [evcentral.com.au]
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The Aptera is an interesting case, and as much as as it smells of a VC-milking scam, I'm really interested to see if and how they can pull it off. I've come to appreciate that they've taken a different approach and aren't just building enormous 3-ton tanks like every other manufacturer.
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Turns out you can do much better traction control with electric motors, adjusting every millisecond, than you can with internal combustion engines. Also much easier to put an motor in every wheel with EVs. So yeah, electric motors work better in snow. Current Lithium batteries don't work as well in the cold, but the solid state batteries don't seem to have that weakness.
I originally thought EV's had individual motors and was surprised to find they didn't.
Here is why: https://evcentral.com.au/why-d... [evcentral.com.au]
Seems like you could replace the differential with two motors, each driving an axel to their separate wheel. Though maybe the differential fits in that space better than two motors...
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The really interesting thing is Ferdinand Porsche had designs and patents for that in the 1930s.
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The really interesting thing is Ferdinand Porsche had designs and patents for that in the 1930s.
Even earlier, the article says "The Lohner-Porsche petrol-electric hybrid of 1900, for example, was powered by electric motors built into the hubs of its big, balloon-tyred wheels."
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Informative)
Rivian has a motor for each wheel. They aren't in-wheel motors, but the effect is the same without problems of unsprung weight and "where do I fit the brakes?". The configuration is outstanding for traction control, as explained in this video [youtube.com].
For most vehicles, though, you'll do just fine with one or two motors and conventional (mechanical) differentials for each axle.
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There is an issue of range anxiety in the colder temperatures, but nothing preventing them from working. Add to that the technology is improving, especially with incentives to invest in R&D, based on the EU cut off date for ICEs.
Given the stop-start nature of postal vans, being electric is probably an advantage and cuts down on engine idle emissions,
Add to this, a number of parcel shipping companies are adding bicycles (typically electric) to their fleets, for use inside cities. As an example: https://c [cyclingmagazine.ca]
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Tesla is the best-selling car in cold countries such as Iceland and Norway: Reference: https://insideevs.com/news/407... [insideevs.com] https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
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We should have stuck with horses. I told them this, but they didn't listen, they were all gobbling up the lies from that Ford fellow.
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Siberian Yakut horses of course.
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It will work until they can't charge them due to rolling blackouts caused by everyone charging their teslas in a heat wave.
EVs can *help* with rolling blackouts by providing a large reserve of battery capacity that can be fed back into the grid during severe peaks in demand.
It's not like there's no weather forecasts available to plan for these events. I'm sure most people wouldn't mind having their mail delayed by a day if the trucks could be used to prevent a power outage.
BTW, financial incentives could be created to get the Tesla owners to participate in this kind of plan, too.
Re:Probably will work in Los Angeles (Score:5, Insightful)
It will work until they can't charge them due to rolling blackouts caused by everyone charging their teslas in a heat wave. I mean the day after they announced ICE ban, they told electric car owners to not charge their cars due to Grid Demand.
No Mail for you, two days !
It's like the anti-ev ranters keep a list of past lies to reuse in the future.
The told EV owners to charge later at night, which anyone on a time variable cost schedule does anyway.
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But I really dislike how this administration keeps trying to strong-arm companies or individuals into making the change. The switch to electric for vehicles needs to be done on a case-by-case basis, as people voluntarily conclude it makes more sense for them. Government pressure to mandate it only leads to problems on the power distribution side of the equation and to shortages that inflate prices.
It's their job to direct the government agencies.
Also please show some evidence where such policies causes all
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So.... you've made a really bad assumption about my beliefs and who I vote for. And THAT shows part of our whole problem in today's political system. Everyone has polarized themselves as far left or right as they can go, on a crusade to "punish" the opposition.
As an Independent libertarian, I'm just watching all the morons burn everything great about America to the ground.
FWIW, I'm not even sure what a "moderate" really is anymore? At this point, people seem to be defining them as anyone still picking and
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But I really dislike how this administration keeps trying to strong-arm companies or individuals into making the change. The switch to electric for vehicles needs to be done on a case-by-case basis, as people voluntarily conclude it makes more sense for them.
This is an important general issue, whether government should actively direct societal changes or allow a laissez faire economy to arrive at the optimal outcomes. The danger of the former is an ineptly chosen goal or strategy to obtain that goal. The danger of the latter is that what is optimal for a company may not match what is optimal for people. In fact, a totally laissez faire approach likely leads to attempts to reduce market competition (as individual corporate profits are pursed) and sometimes in
re: evidence (Score:2)
Evidence for what I've said can be found all over the place if you bother to pay attention and look!
Go all the way back to the General Motors EV1, mandated under the Clinton administration, for a great example! Because "politics", GM built a vehicle that nobody asked for and was so cost prohibitive to own long-term, they wouldn't even let customers BUY one. They only offered it on a 3 year lease so they could recapture them before the battery packs failed and people discovered the true cost of ownership.
Ult
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They do not need 40% gas. it's way too corrupt sounding. plus they have a crook in charge.
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If only they could link up [wikipedia.org] all the EV batteries into a "virtual power plant" to stabilize the grid [slashdot.org] from the time the sun goes down until the time the evening wind picks up! Wouldn't that be great?
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I do agree that an EV postal truck is a great application for that technology. They typically do a lot of stop and start driving, combined with low speed driving and a route that doesn't consist of anywhere near the maximum range you'd expect from a typical EV battery pack.
But I really dislike how this administration keeps trying to strong-arm companies or individuals into making the change. The switch to electric for vehicles needs to be done on a case-by-case basis, as people voluntarily conclude it makes more sense for them.
The mandate of the post office is to deliver mail, they don't care about gas vs EV, so the rational way for them to fulfil their mandate is to trial out EVs, see how they work out, then start slowly scaling up.
The mandate of the President is the welfare of the country, and that includes mail delivery, air quality, climate change, energy security, and a bunch of other things.
Not only is it completely appropriate for the President to tell the post office to pick up the pace on the transition but it's exactly
Re:How to help the environment (Score:5, Insightful)
I worked for the USPS as a summer job back in the late 80s. I loved driving the old postal Jeeps, but they were so old and worn out that you could use a paperclip instead of the key to start some of them. They were just starting to phase in the LLVs, which were larger and had worse visibility. Those vehicles are over 40 years old now. Eventually you have to replace old, worn-out things, and it's time to replace those vehicles.
Yes, they could also save money by eliminating Tuesday/Thursday mail delivery, but if we're going to have any mail delivery, they need new trucks. Let that oil stay in the Earth.
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I worked for the USPS as a summer job back in the late 80s.
My dog says "Hi!"
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There is so much anti-green propaganda about how horrible EVs are. Reliable sources show that it does not take anywhere near a fuckton of oil to produce an EV, but instead only about 0.05 fucktons. And in any case, the best vehicles to convert are the ones that will replace the most oil consumption, for which delivery vehicles with a lifetime in decades are at the top of the list.
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Wrong. EV's require more oil and CO2 to produce up-front, but make up for it over about ten years of the vehicle's active use vs. an ICE vehicle. Making them less worse for the environment than buying a new ICE car. Neither are good for the environment, just levels of damage and CO2 output. Even 100% EV proponents acknowledge these basic facts. Learn the basics about what you support.
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Wrong. EV's require more oil and CO2 to produce up-front, but make up for it over about ten years of the vehicle's active use vs. an ICE vehicle.
Yep, EVs do a *LOT* better in operating. Consider all of the oil drilling, pump jacks, transportation (diesel & oil), refining, more transportation, pumping to the car ... just to name the easy items that EVs don't need because they don't use gasoline, but ICE cars do. Note: all of those require oil and produce a lot of CO2.
... per month! That's a lot of CO2 for you. If you
Fun fact according to a source I just looked up, did you know that all of the pump jacks in the US use 4300 GWh of electricity
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I'm not objecting to anything specifically, other than repeatedly having to point out to you that electric vehicles aren't good for the environment. They're LESS BAD for the environment. We both agree that EVs in the long-run are less bad for the environment than ICE vehicles, and the break-even point for oil and CO2 is something like ten years when compared to a high-MPG car.
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The break-even point depends in large part on the source of the electricity you're using to power it, but typical estimates are two to three years in the US. If the electricity is all renewable, then it's under 10,000 miles of driving (less than one year typically).
Source:
https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
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It looks like that doesn't take into account the other environmental costs other than CO2, so things like oil for the equipment needed to mine the lithium and manufacture/transport the batteries, etc. But it's in range with the estimates I've seen, which is ~10 years. They might've been factoring in people who drive less than their estimated lifetime of 171k miles, or maybe vehicles that are more efficient. But good source, and I like that they phrase it properly: "do less harm to the environment." No vehic
Re:How to help the environment (Score:5, Interesting)
only deliver mail once or twice a week
Interesting idea. However, there are some downsides. Package delivery will be slower, which will likely move most of those deliveries to private delivery. Revenue from package delivery in 2021 [usps.com] was $28.7 billion, compared to $13.9 billion for spam mail and $23.8 million for first-class mail. In recent history, package delivery has been increasing rapidly, spam a little less rapidly, and first-class mail declining slowly. That means that a significant decrease in package delivery would be disastrous financially. Packages subsidize first-class mail, so first-class delivery would be impacted, even beyond trying to deliver once or twice a week.
Of course, the real problem is the artificial restraints imposed by Congress (pre-funding pensions and requiring just-as-fast deliveries to low population density areas) that competitors don't have to deal with. The latter is really the fundamental problem. If UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon were required to delivery to every single address in the US instead of cherry picking the ones that make financial sense, their financial performance would also suffer. The problem is that Congress treats the USPS simultaneously as a free-market company and as a public service. Congress either needs to let the USPS compete on an even basis or protect/subsidize the service as government-provided infrastructure.
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Bulk advertising is what’s keeping them in business.
Re:How to help the environment (Score:5, Informative)
The US Constitution is what keeps the USPS in business! It would have been sold off long ago during one of the high tides of corruption.
They never have ever needed to be a business; they are a government service and unlike the military and most government services they are explicitly in the constitution! They can operate at a loss and they did for most their existence because that is their purpose and they should remain as the reliable method to move legal documents and become the modern infrastructure for commerce. FedEx etc can not compete with their operating costs; even with some corruption, their operating overhead has to be quite high to get to the level of profits of the private carriers. 30% profit is good business, but 30% graft is grounds for some heads to roll and politicians to earn some approval.
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If you get inundated with junk mail, stop giving your address out to every tom, DICK, and harry.
As for larger than letter packages, I have yet to have one lost to the USPS - and it is delivered to my
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My physical mailbox has 0% spam filtering. My digital one has about 90% filtering.
Every time I open my mailbox and have to sift through a bunch of worthless, environment-harming shit, I consider that a failure. Which is every single time I go to the mailbox. I can't opt out, I can't tell them I don't even look at what they send. Repeat this for every single household in the country. It's madness. People have a blind spot for the utter ridiculousness of this $14B/yr. industry when it's doing little more than
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People were similarly concerned when AT&T got broken up.
Re: How to help the environment (Score:2)
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You're a socialist so you support a privatized delivery service that exists because it shovels capitalist consumer craps into everyone's mailboxes, even though it harms the environment and people instantly throw it all out anyway? That makes sense.
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As a Socialist, what is the point of a Union? If you put all your trust in big government, why does a Union need to exist to protect government workers from government? Do you not trust government?
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Re:How to help the environment (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't believe for a second they need 40% to be gas. MOST deliveries are in the city where 90+% live. I've seen rural postal done in places I drive with normal vehicles for my whole life.
The current crook in charge can not be trusted. Plus the new duck billed trucks look like some kind of joke.
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If you think it's so bad you have lots of explaining as to why there are hundreds of thousands of EVs in the US and they do just fine carrying weight and driving many times more miles per day than an urban postal worker will. There might be a few rural routes th