Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Businesses Technology

'Lifetime Value' Is Silicon Valley's Next Buzzword (reuters.com) 32

So long, "total addressable market." Farewell, "flywheel effect." Silicon Valley has a new buzzword. As the cost of signing up new customers rises, "lifetime value" is set to become must-use jargon for technology executives, investors and analysts in 2023. Reuters reports: Companies like Uber, DoorDash and Spotify want shareholders to know they can squeeze more revenue out of users than it costs to recruit them. As with previously popular jargon, though, the idea can quickly get garbled. The concept of lifetime value is not new, but a common definition remains elusive. The venture capitalist Bill Gurley defines it as "the net present value of the profit stream of a customer." Hollywood uses it to estimate the cumulative income from streaming movie titles, after deducting the cost of making the film.

It's catching on in the tech world. Uber boss Dara Khosrowshahi and his team invoked (PDF) the term seven times during the ride-hailing firm's investor day. At a similar event in June executives from music streaming service Spotify mentioned (PDF) it 14 times, with another 47 references to the abbreviation LTV. Earnings transcripts for 4,800 U.S.-listed companies analyzed by Bedrock AI show executives and analysts mentioned "lifetime value" over 500 times between October and mid-December, up from just 47 times in three months to March 2019.

The problem is that everyone seems to have a different definition of lifetime value. Food delivery firm DoorDash looks at it as a metric to measure "customer retention, order frequency, and gross profit per order" over a fixed payback period. Uber and its Southeast Asian peer Grab treat it as the ability to bring in one customer and then cross-sell different services at a lower cost. The $49 billion e-commerce firm Shopify defines lifetime value as the total amount of money a customer is expected to spend with the business over the course of an "average business relationship." But lifetime value isn't a silver bullet, as Gurley noted a decade ago. As capital becomes more scarce, generating free cash flow remains the most important target. As with previous buzzwords, investors may find that references to lifetime value do more to confound than clarify.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

'Lifetime Value' Is Silicon Valley's Next Buzzword

Comments Filter:
  • by lowvisioncomputing ( 10234616 ) on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:02PM (#63166956) Homepage Journal
    With more competition, your "lifetime value" goes down. That's basic capitalism 101. This new buzzword is just handwaving hoping investors will ignore that they're not actually making money which is why they continue to need more capital.
  • Any fremium-model company (most SaaS companies) have been using lifetime value this entire time. The unit economics for these types of companies only makes sense when you model out the (expected) Lifetime Value of a customer, knowing that the ramp-up costs for an incremental customer will be offset with an expected SaaS duration. Not new for 2023..... but it's also naive as a real measure of company finances.
    • I think freemium-model is a bit of an overstatement. More often it is simple a demo, a test drive, before a one time purchase. Like a car sale. LTV really needs to be more specifically tied to subscription based products, like your SaaS example. Still, its kind of BS until the company has lots of data to show some credibility for their numbers, and there is still the hazard of disruption changing everything.

      I think for most users of LTV, it's a sign of weakness and attempting to manufacture the image of
  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:12PM (#63166974)
    .... will be a lifetime of value for those companies.
  • Gotta shore up those balance sheets somehow, in-order to hide the true nature of dropping revenue and future liquidity issues
  • No? Well, that would have been too good to be true.

  • "Vender Lock-in". Noobs gotta rename everything.

    • And Cisco, and SAP, and ServiceNow. The list goes on and on.

    • It is false and misleading to use 'lifetime' when it is not. Worse this is a well traveled path in military and electronic part parlance. Or carmakers and car parts. I like to use the term easy come easy go. The moment you s**w a customer they start looking to get off that treadmill. True, you have a new stupid generation of managers who are easy to suck in - like free fitout for move-ins. Using the cloud? Get a broker.
  • by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Thursday December 29, 2022 @08:28PM (#63166996)
    Yes, I know it’s very old-fashioned, but the concept is still around for a reason, and the “new economy” will eventually have to come to terms with it. Just like the crypto community is currently getting a quick, brutal lesson in the virtues of old-timey financial prudence.
  • "Flywheel effect" was just a euphemism for monopolist behavior enabled by an abuse of market power, mainly used at Amazon.

  • It's happening faster and faster, and introducing new buzzwords ain't gonna change that.

    I really fundamentally never got why "corps" like Twitter, TikTok or that inane snapchat would have some billions of evaluation. It makes no sense whatsoever for anyone who knows the elementary basics of computing and digital networks. That this won't fly forever was always perfectly clear to me.

    Until recently an overall growing global market sought for places to invest and put excess money in so-called "tech" companies

    • Microsoft proved to the tech world that inertia is everything. People don't want to change platforms, ever, not even when it's obvious that they should. And often, there's a lot of regulatory capture, monopolization, and other anticompetitive fuckery that makes it very difficult to do so. That's why social networks are able to persist so successfully despite their deservedly bad reputations.

    • Post Middle Class labour scarcity.

      We are still unbeatable good robots for low enough wages and the owners employing those robots still need some physicians and court entertainers.

  • Just like turtles, except it's bullshit - bullshit all the way down.

    The fact that language like "lifetime value" and "flywheel effect" influences investors, allows "wealth" to be created based on the wonderful new clothes that the emperor isn't wearing. And we wonder why inequality and wealth concentration are spiraling out of control. Good Lord we're a gullible lot.

  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Thursday December 29, 2022 @10:51PM (#63167228)

    "lifetime value" is set to become must-use jargon for technology executives, investors and analysts in 2023.

    No it is not, except perhaps in desperation to change the topic from current cash flows. "Lifetime value" is a return to the sort of logic the Silicon Valley investors already rejected and improved upon. The old-school long term projections in a business plan, which has always been complete BS for entrepreneurial ventures. Long term projections only work for companies with extensive experience in their markets, like when they are already a leader and selling v3 of the same goods/service to the same market that has not changed with respect to its customer needs/wants, ie they still have good product/market fit. Not the early adopter experimental minor portion of the market on the near side of the "chasm" but the conservative main market on the far side of the "chasm".

    Use of "long term value" is largely an admission of weakness, an attempt to spin the situation as an "opportunity". The exception being companies that have a decade or more of data and can actual document the "long term value" of real customers. Its just BS otherwise.

    • Use of "long term value" is largely an admission of weakness, an attempt to spin the situation as an "opportunity". The exception being companies that have a decade or more of data and can actual document the "long term value" of real customers. Its just BS otherwise.

      It is the mark of the bean counters taking over.

      Senescence sets in, and this is the first symptom.

      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        It is the mark of the bean counters taking over.

        No, it is the mark of salesman finding the dumb money easier to find at the moment.

  • There is a long history of attempting to come up with a profit per customer metric, and ways to increase it.

    It even permeates the pharmaceutical and medical business.

    That these masters of the Universe in techworld are excited like this is something new just tells us how clueless and desperate they are getting. Inventing new buzzwords for krissakes.

  • If you don't have SYNERGY, Business Cat will gobble up your still-attached balls and turn you into a man-woman (or is it woman-man these days?)

    https://www.urbandictionary.co... [urbandictionary.com]

    Buzz-words are for pussies. Get a life.

    • Our turnkey managed solution, while providing a large ROI, will enable a dynamic and adaptable paradigm shift that is data-driven and takes advantage of core competencies while delivering scalable monetization of innovation that is incentivized by a cohesive and actionable strategy.

  • I bet it's about the same as most of the companies now (over-)using it...

  • by hawguy ( 1600213 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:06AM (#63167462)

    Doordash and other companies have already squeezed as much value out of me as they are going to get in my lifetime.

    My breaking point was when I ordered a couple Banh Mi's from a local vietnamese place. When I go to the restaurant, they cost $8.95 a piece, so for about $20 I've got a meal for two.

    Then one time I had a $40 promo credit and ordered on Door Dash, between the inflated menu prices ($12.95 for a sandwich that cost $8.95 in store!), the service fee, the delivery fee, a couple other fees I can't remember, and driver tip, it cost over $75 for the order. Even with the $40 credit, it cost $15 more than going to the store.

  • ...they just renamed the infamous ARPU [wikipedia.org], that was connected to the astronomic overvaluation of dotcom companies. You all probably remember what happened...
  • TCOT (Total cost of ownership) is a term I remember from my business classes way back when. This seems like an attempt to measure something similar on the other side, the credit side, of the balance sheet. It seems like it could be a useful metric for use in business planning and cost accounting, but that the concept is being abused for marketing purposes.

    The fact that I even speak of a balance sheet probably shows just how long ago it was that I took those business classes.

  • Need to look at lifetime value of empolyees.

  • Is that "lifetime value" to the CUSTOMER, or to the COMPANY? Because if it's the latter, it means upping planned obsolescence, so the "lifetime" referred to is that of the product.

    To the customer, on the other hand, means you stop conning them into buying cheap shit that will fall apart, or otherwise need to be replaced in a year or two.

  • ...reinvent customer loyalty?
  • I am going to continue calling it net present value as it was defined in finance class. https://www.investopedia.com/t... [investopedia.com]

If all else fails, lower your standards.

Working...