With PC Sales Down, Laptop Makers Turn To Services (theverge.com) 34
The PC market is in rough waters, and it was for much of last year. Every PC maker except Apple saw year-over-year decline. Laptop sales are said to have suffered the most. From a report: This all made for a somewhat uncertain backdrop heading into CES 2023, the annual conference where tech companies show off the products they'll be releasing in 2023. Throughout the show, executives and representatives from various PC manufacturers acknowledged that the industry has a big task ahead of it this year: keep the laptop exciting. Some companies are trying to do that with goofy hardware things (such as Lenovo's dual-screen, dual-OLED, and touchpad-less Yoga Book 9i). But others are moving away from hardware -- and the raw power that hardware can provide -- and emphasizing quirkier software capabilities in this year's lineups. AMD revealed that some of its new chips will come with its first Ryzen AI engine, built on its XDNA architecture.
Intel's upcoming Meteor Lake chips will also bring AI capabilities.
HP announced new features for its Omen Gaming Hub, including integration with Nvidia's GeForce Now, and new remote management and insight services for IT. A consumer Windows PC, the Dragonfly Pro, was also unveiled, with its integration with HP's new "live concierge" service touted as a highlight. The report adds: And HP isn't alone in this conviction -- quite a few other manufacturers that had a big presence at CES this year emphasized showy software features that utilized camera tracking and AI, from Asus' and Acer's glasses-free 3D displays to Razer's soundbar that follows your head around to optimize your music. Even Lenovo's aforementioned dual-screen Yoga Book is a software offering in many ways; the form factor is hardly new, but the investments Lenovo has made in an impressive system of gesture control are what make it a viable product.
Intel's upcoming Meteor Lake chips will also bring AI capabilities.
HP announced new features for its Omen Gaming Hub, including integration with Nvidia's GeForce Now, and new remote management and insight services for IT. A consumer Windows PC, the Dragonfly Pro, was also unveiled, with its integration with HP's new "live concierge" service touted as a highlight. The report adds: And HP isn't alone in this conviction -- quite a few other manufacturers that had a big presence at CES this year emphasized showy software features that utilized camera tracking and AI, from Asus' and Acer's glasses-free 3D displays to Razer's soundbar that follows your head around to optimize your music. Even Lenovo's aforementioned dual-screen Yoga Book is a software offering in many ways; the form factor is hardly new, but the investments Lenovo has made in an impressive system of gesture control are what make it a viable product.
This should go well. (Score:5, Insightful)
Lenovo did it to themselves. (Score:2)
If Lenovo hadn't screwed up the thinkpad keyboard and gotten rid of the thinklight and generally abandoned us, I might actually buy a new one instead of rocking my x220s from like 2013.
Re:Lenovo did it to themselves. (Score:5, Insightful)
This. People who would buy a new Laptop want specific features. Those features have been removed. That plus the continued lockdown in hardware (nvidia) is preventing me from buying anything brand new.
if someone came out with a model similar to a T420, with high specs, open-hardware and a larger screen, I think that would sell quite well. Instead vendors want to do nothing but use hardware without good open source support.
In the very old days, PC sales exploded because compaq came out with an open PC that could be upgraded, was affordable and the hardware can be 'hacked' by almost anyone.
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In the very old days, PC sales exploded because compaq came out with an open PC that could be upgraded, was affordable and the hardware can be 'hacked' by almost anyone.
You mean because Compaq copied such a machine, which was created by someone more competent? Which we know because they literally made a business out of making ever crappier copies of new iterations on the same design invented by the same company?
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I also rock an old Thinkpad. I would gladly pay for a modern take on the T420. I would pay good money for a modern laptop with good Linux support out of the box and a battery that I can replace. Bonus points if I can replace or upgrade some of the other components without taking off the keyboard. I don't care how thin it is.
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On the Mac side, I'd be happy with something the size of a 2010-2012 MacBook or MBP. Yes, it is about 1.5 to twice the thickness than a current Apple model, but opening it to change out RAM or the internal storage was a breeze. Battery removal was a cinch. That made life easy, not just because it prolonged the life of the device, but allowed one to carry multiple batteries on a long plane trip, just to ensure they had enough power to make it to the destination country, get to the hotel, then bust out the
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People who would buy a new Laptop want specific features. Those features have been removed. That plus the continued lockdown in hardware (nvidia) is preventing me from buying anything brand new.
Similarly here. I've wanted a new laptop or two or three (me, wife, backup/more portable) for several years now - and my current machines are starting to flake out - keyboard, too little memory for browser security-sandboxing leading to thrashing pauses, occasional flat-out crashes, apparently from power control/the
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If Lenovo hadn't screwed up the thinkpad keyboard
The 2018 Carbon X1 has a lovely keyboard, arguably nicer than my W510, but with different shaped keys. It is a delight to type on compared to almost any other laptop I've tried.
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Thinkpads are stil quite well and carry most of the IBM DNA in them still.
My Gen1 T480 still has an excellent keyboard, still has the mouse nubbin, still has the "spillproof" feature, I can still easily find a full service manual and in general is easy to work on. The Thinklight was clever and I did enjoy it on my older models but would I trade a full backlit keyboard for just the Thinklight? Absolutely not.
The competition is good also like Dell Latitudes and Elitebooks but imo amongst mainstream brands fo
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ThinkPads give you one thunderbolt port. It's actually the power jack, which means it has zero thunderbolt / usb-c ports.
They also have begun to forgo the ports you would get before usb-c took over.
I'm honestly upset about thinkpads being reduced to off-brand poorly made ultrabooks.
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I personally do not consider a Vivobook a competitor to a Thinkpad, the same way I don't consider an inspiron or macbook pro or razer blade a competitor.
Yes if i want the best bang for buck in terms of specs and performance a Thinkpad aint it, but it's for the intagibles and build quality. A Thinkpad can survive a life of being tossed in bags, TSA bins, job sites and everything else. It has the inner metal frame with outside plastic shell, it has the spillproof keyboard and the keyboard is replaceable in
Screw HP (Score:2)
They can't even get their Elitebooks to stay connected to the network through the G-5 dock. We have multiple dozen machines which lose connectivity sitting at the desk. Only way to resolve it is either restart the machine or, what we usualy do, reset the entire network connection on the machine.
We've had so many problems with HP I hope they don't get the next contract. If I'm asked my opinion on who to go with, it won't be HP. And their support isn't the greatest either despite having a dedicated line.
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Who do you like? The only vendors I haven't felt screwed over by yet are toshiba and fujitsu.
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We had no problems with Dell, other than that weird motherboard issue. If we had a problem we'd call and get a part sent out that day. Usually arrived the next day and was replaced the same. The equipment just worked.
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Toshiba and Fujitsu rock
Apple could win the market... (Score:2)
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I'm not desperate enough to run windows, so I won't be buying any more laptops.
If only there was a third option.
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If they don't support all the platforms they're not giving you a benefit over doing it another way.
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outside of being a Unix core I can not stand OSX, there's just stuff that's broken and no one seems to mind even though other OS's fixed it decades ago, even linux distro's. Hell the hardware isn't even all that impressive once you remove the metal shell, and not talking about performance, just build quality of the electronics inside is, at best average (performance side no its never been that compelling for the price)
it must be some form of Stockholm Syndrome
supply chain (Score:2)
Bloatware backfires won't save cheap hardware (Score:2)
Nobody likes bloatware, they tolerate it at best.
Choose to make quality hardware in quality, easily serviceable enclosures/chassis and sell GPUs for less than current ripoff prices.
Of course since Dicedot deliberately destroyed Slashdot as an industry influence (may those responsible die in a fire) they won't see threads like this and will remain ignorant.
Together with software defined silicon... (Score:2)
Together with Intel's software defined silicon*, I see this as an absolute win... for vendors.
Future's a hoot!
*https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/ , yes, currently for Xeon, but you just wait.
Sigh (Score:4, Insightful)
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Just build decent machines (Score:2)
and they will sell. For Laptops the industry has steadily moved from providing tools to toys. Batteries are non hot-swappable, keyboards get worse, case design gets worse in order to shave of pointless milimetres of thickness. Batteries get tinier and so does real-life battery life. Some laptops even removed the network interfaces so you have to deal with USB to move data to and from it.
The company I'm currently working at, for example had to switch from a long run of Thinkpads to whoever bought the HP bran
Quirky features no one asked for (Score:4, Insightful)
They shoot themselves in the foot with all the forced innovation. We don't want innovation. We want a product that is fast, compact and reliable. Unfortunately, this is not enough for all the bosses who expect a constant stream of incoming money and who, quite wrongly, think that irrelevant-but-annoying "features" will bag them more sales.
Haven't they been down for a while? (Score:3)
We're on the flat end of the curve. Computers are fast enough for the things that most people do.
There's part of me that's wondering the requirements for Windows 11 are primarily targeted at boosting PC sales. I'm also wondering if it'll backfire. Neither my two workstations nor my laptop are suitable for windows 11, but they work fine. Which means I'll be on 10 for the foreseeable future. And if Adobe ever gets off their butts and ports Creative Cloud to ANY version of Linux, I'll jettison Windows completely and be perfectly happy with behind-the-curve hardware.
Side note: In times of economic downfall, office IT equipment suddenly becomes available for a song at electronics recycling places. This also serves to reduce new sales.
Laptop keyboards are the worst (Score:2)
I'd buy a new laptop if there was a manufacturer that made a keyboard that was actually usable. Most laptops have: Half-height function keys, half-height arrow keys, half-height insert/delete/home/end/page up/page down keys (and usually horribly positioned as well). The left ctrl and alt keys are also usually narrower and so it is easier to press Fn or the Windows logo key at the wrong time. And some keyboards shortchange the right shift key. You know, keys that people actually press frequently. When
Services, bloatware, or subscriptions? (Score:2)
We already have services. It's what the PC has been doing forever. The only question is what services come bundled and how do users pay. Bloatware has been bundled on PC for a very long time. That's not new. The new part is pushing/forcing users to pay for that bloatware either once or on a recurring, subscription basis.
Re: Services, bloatware, or subscriptions? (Score:2)
Gaming laptops... (Score:2)