Appliance Makers Sad That 50% of Customers Won't Connect Smart Appliances (arstechnica.com) 335
Appliance makers like Whirlpool and LG just can't understand. They added Wi-Fi antennae to their latest dishwashers, ovens, and refrigerators and built apps for them -- and yet only 50 percent or fewer of their owners have connected them. What gives? From a report: The issue, according to manufacturers quoted in a Wall Street Journal report (subscription usually required), is that customers just don't know all the things a manufacturer can do if users connect the device that spins their clothes or keeps their food cold -- things like "providing manufacturers with data and insights about how customers are using their products" and allowing companies to "send over-the-air updates" and "sell relevant replacement parts or subscription services."
"The challenge is that a consumer doesn't see the true value that manufacturers see in terms of how that data can help them in the long run. So they don't really care for spending time to just connect it," Henry Kim, US director of LG's smart device division ThinQ, told the Journal. LG told the Journal that fewer than half of its smart appliances -- which represent 80-90 percent of its sold appliances -- stay connected to the Internet. Whirlpool reported that "more than half" are connected. Wi-Fi-connected smart appliances may be connected when they're first set up, but a new Internet provider, router hardware, or Wi-Fi password could take the device offline. And a smart oven is likely to be far down the list of devices to set up again once that happens. That means companies like Whirlpool are missing out on services revenue, which is increasingly crucial to manufacturers facing rising input costs, declining replacement purchases, and hungry shareholders.
"The challenge is that a consumer doesn't see the true value that manufacturers see in terms of how that data can help them in the long run. So they don't really care for spending time to just connect it," Henry Kim, US director of LG's smart device division ThinQ, told the Journal. LG told the Journal that fewer than half of its smart appliances -- which represent 80-90 percent of its sold appliances -- stay connected to the Internet. Whirlpool reported that "more than half" are connected. Wi-Fi-connected smart appliances may be connected when they're first set up, but a new Internet provider, router hardware, or Wi-Fi password could take the device offline. And a smart oven is likely to be far down the list of devices to set up again once that happens. That means companies like Whirlpool are missing out on services revenue, which is increasingly crucial to manufacturers facing rising input costs, declining replacement purchases, and hungry shareholders.
Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why. There's no good reason any of these things need to be online (and vulnerable).
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Interesting)
I found one utility when exploring what my fridge could do and whether I could do something to it: it can send alerts to my phone that the doors have been left open a long time. With my toddlers just figuring out how to get food out, this was a problem for a while, since the alert chime isn't audible in the other room.
That was really the only advantage, though, and once the habit was broken, it got disconnected.
Re: Utility (app) support (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Utility (app) support (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Utility (app) support (Score:4, Interesting)
That thing cooks and has a timer and that's about it but it's built like a '54 Buick (enamel on steel) and she could probably will it to one of her kids.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Funny)
I tried it out on my fridge, and the only thing it provided was viewing the temperature that the fridge was set to. Not the actual temperature inside, just what it was set to. And it wasn't possible to change it. I can't imagine ever having the need to check that on my phone, so it got turned off.
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Informative)
I will not participate in data collection or spying on my use of my things, and this is how I decided to manage my network. I have a firewall rule that blocks outbound connections from that device. The cool think about HomeKit connectivity is that it works sans internet. Apple mandate devices do local processing of API requests, using SSL so it is encrypted as well. I do not need to talk to a cloud server to talk to local devices, and Siri responds and does local processing of voice recognition and API requests to those appliances or the homebridge server. That is for example how I got Pentair pool system and hot tub to be in HomeKit as a thermostat, switches for the water features, and light switches for the pool lights. I think everything should connect this way, and I think for non network savvy consumers, routers should by default come with {networkName}_IOT which is internet blocked for this purpose, where you can specify the hub to talk to the internet as needed.
Sometimes when I have an issue or I read about a new feature released for those appliances, I remove the internet restriction selectively to update; if I can not update myself like I can my cameras. Even my smart TVs are controlled via HomeKit and only the attacked AppleTV talks to the internet for streaming services. Works great and I feel secure about how my network is set up. Took me a long while to get it all to work.
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you find most smart devices can function without a cloud server? I bought an Ooler mattress thingy and had the rude surprise that it would not work without frequent cloud connections! I couldn't even pair without creating an account and logging in. I would have returned the thing if I were in the US. I want my devices to work even when the cloud is down. (/rant)
Re: Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Interesting)
When I bought my newest stove I was actually quite excited about the idea of being able to turn it on remotely. I have had several times when I have prepared a roast, or something else that bakes in the oven for some time, and then had someone at home turn on the oven when I was sure about the time frame that we would be returning. On several occasions I have returned home from a party or other social gathering, just so that I could turn on the oven at a certain time. So I was excited about the idea of being able to do that from anywhere using my phone.
Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately now that I have had the oven for a while, this is not possible. It is possible to send instructions to the oven remotely. But you then have to push a button on the stove for the oven to actually follow the instructions. That makes a lot of sense from a security point of view, but it does mean that my new oven is basically the same; as my old oven (other than it has more complicated parts, and is harder to fix when it breaks).
I suppose I can still turn the oven off. That's something, but it isn't worth paying a premium for.
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes they fucking do, which is why 50% don't connect.
Unless you're going to tell me that my SMART® washer & drier can wash and fold my clothes for me..... If not, what is it the manufacturer can do for me, other than bother me to buy manufacturer approved detergent and fabric softener refills? I'd love some actual automation, but not interested in my appliance nagging me to spend money.
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes they fucking do, which is why 50% don't connect.
I'd say they don't, because if they did 90% of them wouldn't connect, not just the 50% (who, honestly, are probably just too lazy.)
From the article: "providing manufacturers with data and insights about how customers are using their products"
that is: they want you to connect so they can harvest your data.
and allowing companies to "send over-the-air updates"
If the product works, what does an over the air update do? And if it didn't work to start with: return it.
and "sell relevant replacement parts or subscription services."
The true value of connectivity: to sell you more stuff!
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd disagree with all of this. I had to buy a new dehumidifier recently. I saw smart versions for a little bit more money and figured I'd take a look. The dehumidifier runs in my basement all the time. I mostly ignore it, but regularly have to dump the bucket and clean the air filter. Both of those needs have indicator lights telling me I need to do those things, so I just have to remember to check them regularly. My immediate thought was it'd be really nice if it sent me a notification when it needed maintenance, which seemed like a really obvious thing for the smart versions to do.
That's not what it does. The smart versions let me change the humidity level or run it on a timer or things like that. It even let me set up multiple user accounts so different people could have preferred settings. But the status indicators aren't connected to the smart functionality! I'd still have to regularly go down to the basement and look at the device to see if it needed anything done. All the smart features were completely useless, and it didn't do the one obvious thing I would have wanted it to do.
After that I looked into a few smart washer/dryers for the hell of it. The ones I saw let you change the wash/dry settings from an app. I think you could even start a load from them. But there was no indication that it would tell you when the load finished. What's the point? You have to put clothing into the machine before you start a load, and I would imagine that if you do that, 99% of the time you're going to be ready to run the load immediately. Once again, the single reason I could think of to have smart connectivity would be to save me from having to go down to the basement to check status, but it doesn't do that.
I think there is some room for smart devices to be useful. I suspect most people that buy them just assume it will do the obvious things you'd expect out of a smart device. They buy it, then find out it doesn't do what they expected, and don't bother setting up the smart features.
Re: (Score:3)
My range, refrigerator, AC/heater, microwave, etc do not need software period. We had all these appliances before software and they worked just fine. Better in fact because they were simpler devices.
They should all be mechanical with zero need for an update EVER.
As someone else said, you buy it and it does it's job. What update could you possibly provide that would improve the experience? The device already does what it needs to do. A timer handles all the magic you may need. aka you have to set everything
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait how are they getting IP's all on their own?
Re: (Score:3)
I'm waiting for them to install little cellular radios and then the company pays for a super cheap data plans. This way they can bypass the pesky consumers because the damn thing will just connect without your permission.
This is already happening in cars.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly!!
I recently had to buy a new fridge.
My LG (only about 5 years old) decided to give up the ghost JUST after I'd bought my thanksgiving food a week before...
Thankfully I had a spare fridge landlord had left here that I cleaned up to use for food instead of just a place for extra beer....that saved me.
There were some major appliance sales over the holidays and I ended up with a new LG, very much the same mode
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. And besides the security angle (which is almost sure to have been messed up and with either no or a difficult upgrade path), this is just one more thing that can break and that is not needed at all.
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll make a tradeoff:
- You PAY ME $10/mo, I'll connect MY device to MY WiFi network
I get no benefit to connecting it to the internet, and I'm taking all the security risks by doing so.
Re:Nobody asked for this. (Score:4, Interesting)
Right. Look, in theory I think it'd be good to put in a load of laundry while I'm doing something else and getting an alert that the load is done or almost done (especially for things that wrinkle easily). Right now I set a timer on my phone and that works well enough. BUT, I'm also wary of:
Over-the-air updates that brick my fucking device (official or hack).
Suspiciously timed "malfunctions" that require costly service, unnecessary maintenance, and/or replacement (thanks, inkjets for this business model)
Etc etc.
Look, for a dryer, I could see someone integrating something like Zojirushi's 'fuzzy logic" that they use for rice cooking to determine drying times, etc (why keep running when the clothes are dry?) Or even doing something like, if you don't want to leave wet clothes in a washing machine all day while you're at work being able to turn on the load thirty minutes before you get home from work. And on TVs, I find the smart "experience" slow, laggy and deeply unsatisfying when it takes a minute just to switch from the main screen to Netflix that I'm more apt to just use my Playstation or get something like the FireHD, etc.
But, largely, I DGAF about these features enough to pay extra, that's for sure.
Re: (Score:3)
my fucking device...
You've piqued my interest, where I can I acquire said device?
Not that I'd want to connect it to the internet, I'd prefer to be a bit more discreet...
Re: (Score:3)
Not only did we not ask for it, we constantly tell them we don't want these "features".
Re: (Score:2)
That's why. There's no good reason any of these things need to be online (and vulnerable).
There's no reason at all. While the manufacturers mare all excited about a new revenue stream, who in the actual hell wants their cooking, cleaning and other house habits monetized and spied upon, who wants an update to brick or reduce functionality of their appliances, and who wants to have their appliances held hostage to ransomware?
The onetime promise of the internet has morphed into a toxic miasma, and nothing about the IOT makes it worth the effort to expose yourself to the problems it brings.
Re: (Score:3)
The next move, following the lead of the Blu-Ray player and automotive markets, is to make it so the device will not operate without an Internet connection, period.
And if you buy such a device, or fail to return one once you learn what it requires, then you get what you deserve.
Re: (Score:3)
The only appliance I have that is connected is the (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've basically given up trying to connect my TV and soundbar to my smartspeaker. Samsung keeps updating their device firmware and breaking the connection between the two devices.
Re: The only appliance I have that is connected is (Score:2)
So just disconnect the Samsung device from the internet.
Re: (Score:2)
Um, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
is that customers just don't know all the things a manufacturer can do if users connect the device that spins their clothes or keeps their food cold
I know exactly what these smart devices are capable of and what kinds of "features" they come with. The problem is that I DON'T WANT a "smart" device and yet that's all that's being produced.
I used to use the "smart" features on my television but a) I didn't trust that it wasn't collecting data about my usage habits and patterns and b) a lot of it's "smart" features don't actually work that well and so I put together a small Linux box on a tiny computer to give me all the smart features, only done better and with the added bonus of privacy and trust.
The last thing I want is a smart fridge, or toaster or desk lamp. I want a simple product (in terms of engineering and design) that does one thing, one thing well and isn't going to cost me extra for a bunch of hardware and features that I'm not interested in plus send data to the manufacturer.
Most people I know, even the non-tech "normies" in my life, tell me that they feel the same way.
So maybe, just maybe the correct interpretation of this data is that 50% of your customers want a non-smart version of that appliance and can't find one so they begrudgingly bought your over-priced, over-engineered garbage and are choosing to use the feature(s) that they actually care about.
Re: (Score:2)
is that customers just don't know all the things a manufacturer can do if users connect the device that spins their clothes or keeps their food cold
I know exactly what these smart devices are capable of and what kinds of "features" they come with. The problem is that I DON'T WANT a "smart" device and yet that's all that's being produced.
I used to use the "smart" features on my television but a) I didn't trust that it wasn't collecting data about my usage habits and patterns and b) a lot of it's "smart" features don't actually work that well and so I put together a small Linux box on a tiny computer to give me all the smart features, only done better and with the added bonus of privacy and trust.
The last thing I want is a smart fridge, or toaster or desk lamp. I want a simple product (in terms of engineering and design) that does one thing, one thing well and isn't going to cost me extra for a bunch of hardware and features that I'm not interested in plus send data to the manufacturer.
Most people I know, even the non-tech "normies" in my life, tell me that they feel the same way.
So maybe, just maybe the correct interpretation of this data is that 50% of your customers want a non-smart version of that appliance and can't find one so they begrudgingly bought your over-priced, over-engineered garbage and are choosing to use the feature(s) that they actually care about.
The only smart feature I'd want on my fridge is to stop making ice when the box is full. If my toaster could load itself and toast bread, there might be some semblance of desire to have similar functionality across, say, a coffee maker or rice cooker or whatever. So sure if there's a robot cook I can put in my kitchen, I am on board with smart technology. Maybe some day I will warm up to smart lights.
Until then I will continue to prefer simpler machine and using what smart appliances / tech I do have in
Re: (Score:2)
I know exactly what these smart devices are capable of and what kinds of "features" they come with.
And this is also exactly the reason why I keep them disconnected...
Things the manufacturers can do? (Score:3)
That's not something that's something to worry about
https://dailycaller.com/2022/0... [dailycaller.com]
If you live in Colorado you may well have had your thermostat do something nice for you when the utility took control.
Re: (Score:3)
Consumers don't like subscription fees (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people... (Score:5, Insightful)
...don't know how to change the default WiFi password on their routers, so have little to no chance of connecting - or reconnecting - a kitchen appliance to their router.
Most everyone who does know how, knows better than to connect such a device to the internet.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh don't worry, it will try every AP in the vicinity with the default credentials. For your convenience.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Most people... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not even joking. One TV I happened to be allowed to pentest really did that. If left to its own devices, it would simply start looking around for open APs and connect. Quietly. Yes, it would politely ask for credentials, but if you told it to STFU, it would shop around for some AP who isn't too choosy who it lets connect and get its channel list that way.
For your convenience, of course.
Re: Most people... (Score:3)
The first router I connected to the internet was a Cisco 2500 in 1997/8. I've been around the block.
I get a new smart device online in one straight go, probably 25% of the time I try it. The rest of time I'm googleshooting to find a solution because the step-by-step directions, as provided, don't succeed.
Don't need computers at all; point of failure (Score:5, Insightful)
The gas-rage "debate" gave me another chance to brag about my money-saving alternative to having a "range" at all: ...but as the story on that page relates, it started with fury that our $2000 range had become useless, because the unwanted, pointless computer in it was the point of failure. Repeatedly. (The $1000 repair to replace the circuit board, advised us to replace the oven if it went again, which it did, in six months.)
http://brander.ca/range/ [brander.ca]
Fury was ready to pop, because a relative had a perfectly good dryer refuse to run, also, though the "essential" equipment, motors and heaters, were fine. The dryer's computer refused to reset at the end of a cycle. We've been managing that for four years now by power-cycling. (With that one, the 1-800 guy heard out the model number, then said the circuit boards were not made any more. The dryer was 5 years old at the time.)
You think of the chips as the least-likely sources of failure, no moving parts, but in practice they are starting to break earlier than anything else.
Also, my TV used to take half a minute to "warm up" in the days of 1960s vacuum tubes. Then TVs were "instant on" for 40 years. Then they started needing a minute to boot. To provide me with no goods I want.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm having a hard time imagining a simple gas stovetop range needing a computer/board to work...?
Anything with an LED/LCD temperature display will have a computer/board behind it, including the microwave, induction cooktops and the Wolf oven on the http://brander.ca/range/ [brander.ca] page that the grandparent linked.
Re: (Score:3)
The oven part I assume. I can use the stove top with mine even without electricity by manually lighting the burners. Even says so right in the manual. Good old manual valves on the gas lines. And the stove is only a year old.
The oven can't be used without electricity though, it uses a thermocouple and microcomputer to be more accurate than the old bimetal manual thermocouple designs. It's also digitally set instead of an inaccurate twist knob that MAY get your oven temps close to what is on the dial. So it'
Dishwasher should wash the dish... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
We had to replace the dishwasher last week. The new one is wifi-capable. I'm not sure how this benefits me. I still have to load it, put soap in it, close the door, and later open the door and unload it in-person. The control panel allows me to set a delayed start and to select the particular cycle I wish to use.
Literally the only sort of potentially useful feature would be being notified when the cycle is truly finished, so that I could put the dishes away. But It's incredibly rare that I need to do m
I own it (Score:2)
We all know what's coming... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hello, LG? My oven won't heat up."
"It's not able to contact our server, so it has gone into failsafe mode and won't heat up until that's fixed."
Re: (Score:2)
You may jest, but we're already there with TVs.
Remember the old school TVs? The REALLY old school ones? With the knobs to tune in the stations? KnobS. One per channel. Later you had a knob to twist and turn and the channel buttons were there to store the position. And later we had channel search. How convenient! Just push a button and it finds then next channel, all you had to do now is to guess which program you're watching (now easier than back then because they show their logo constantly in a corner, at
For security and safety reasons. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Problem is they're not really smart... (Score:5, Informative)
My smart washer, via Alexa, keeps telling me that I'm running low on pods and what they recommend. I have never used pods. I have never purchased pods from Alexa.
So they're not "smart", all they are comes down to little advertisement generators...
Re:Problem is a LOT worse. (Score:2)
So they're not "smart", all they are comes down to little advertisement generators...
This problem is a lot worse than that.
This isn't just some pop-up ad or 10-second television spot. This is the appliance in your home that you put there, telling you that you need to replace/service/pay for something, or else your expensive appliance may stop working.
It's preying on the weak at best and mafia-level sales tactics at worst. They want to claim they're selling "relevant" services and parts? Prove it then. Agree to a multi-vendor blind audit and full review of all smart appliance sales tacti
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
And you keep the "smart" features connected to your home network and Alexa because...you like the annoyance? Why not just disconnect it?
Based on my experiences with friends / family (Score:2)
I doubt most of them have chosen not to connect after making an informed decision about privacy or anything like that... they probably just can't figure out how to do it.
Re: (Score:2)
I do not trust you (Score:5, Insightful)
My 5 year old dishwasher was making some kind of burned smell when running. My wife investigated and this major brand has been implicated in house fires. We chucked it.
What is IoTing going to do for us here? We do not trust most appliance companies to make a decent dishwasher. Should I trust their IoT chops to be better than their bread and butter competency? Are they adding an entire layer of diagnostics to tell me which part should have been replaced? Or was it going to be the same old crap with a poorly engineered IoT integration? Is this more complex device actually less likely to fail? Or more?
Re:I do not trust you (Score:5, Funny)
See? If you connected it to the internet, it would have sent you a text message to the app that it's about to burn down your house.
Re: (Score:3)
See? If you connected it to the internet, it would have sent you a text message to the app that it's about to burn down your house.
The text would tell you to buy a new dishwasher.
Re: (Score:3)
Longetivity (Score:4, Insightful)
How about concentrating your efforts on making an appliance that will, on average, last 20 to 40 years, and if it does break doesn't cost as much as a new model to repair with parts and labor. Even being able to buy parts to repair it with in 20 years would be a plus. "Sorry, the tsunami ate our factory, buy new." isn't really a selling point. The first manufacturer that makes decent products that live up to that will have a lock on the market like some brands used to several decades ago. Granted, they won't have has high a repeat customer volume, but they'll put everyone else out of business.
Enough with the gimmicks.
Re: Longetivity (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure I agree. Compare Japanese auto companies today vs. what's left of the big three. Quality and longetivity really do count at some price point. https://www.jdpower.com/busine... [jdpower.com] is an older study (2021). I'm pretty sure Chrysler and Dodge would like to have numbers like Subaru, Toyota, and Honda. In the premium category, Jaguar (All parts falling off this vehicle are of the finest English craftsmanship according to one bumper sticker) and Lincoln (which my mom owned and was a nightmare as it aged
Re: Longetivity (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You are right that brand loyality doesn't matter a lot, especially in long lived items like cars. But I suspect that word of mouth tracks fairly closely with brand loyality in terms of future sales of used or new vehicles by dealers to friends, so it isn't uncoupled. When I am grumbling at work that the front wheel fell off for the third time on a 20 year old Lincoln LS that is something people remember. When I say my 20 year old Ridgeline is still going strong, when asked, that's also something people reme
Re: (Score:2)
Obligatory Kate & Leopold reference "Well, insertion of bread into that so-called toaster produces no toast at all, merely warm bread! Inserting the bread twice produces charcoal. So, clearly, to make proper toast it requires one and a half insertions, which is something for which the apparatus doesn't begin to allow! One assumes that when the General of Electric built it, he might have tried using it. One assumes the General might take pride in his creations instead of just foisting them on an unsuspec
Give me a dumb TV, please (Score:2)
As soon as someone makes a "dumb" tv with modern specs that won't share my data but can still get my streaming services, I'm buying it. I'm willing to pay more for a tv that has fewer features. There's a process at work here, called "enshitification", aptly described here: https://www.wired.com/story/ti... [wired.com]
Re: (Score:2)
You can have it, but it will cost more.
Because that TV can't be cross-financed by selling your viewing habits.
Re: (Score:2)
A projector may satisfy your desire.
Because people don't need nor want that (Score:3)
And really, adding wi-fi and apps to a damn toaster doesn't add anything of value, except making it more complicated to use and prone to new failures.
Let's not forget the many times "smart" devices cease functioning because of a bad update bricking them, or because the manufacturer company goes belly up, leaving your networked device unable to work. While traditional dumb appliances just work until they break down and most people are fine with it.
Therefore, lots of people simply don't connect their devices to the Internet. Ever. The appliances have to work as promised since day 0 or be returned, so they stay that way.
FTFY (Score:3)
People buy stuff because it landfills their needs and wants.
subscription services (Score:2)
providing manufacturers with data and insights about how customers are using their products
Like narc-ing on you when you don't replace the internal water filter -- 'cause you have an external one on the line? Or a robotic vacuum that uploads pictures [technologyreview.com] of you?
subscription services
For appliances? Let me guess...
Dishwasher: Washing the dishes is included but drying them requires an annual subscription fee.
Personally, I can't even imagine why I would want/need a connected appliance. #ymmv
Not Enough Value (To the Consumer) (Score:3)
Just before the Pandemic, we had to replace our garage door opener (Last one physically broke, and no replacement parts can be had for a model that old) and the only option came with a service called MyQ. I let it sit for years before I tried to connect it to my IoT WiFi and get that part working. More recently I started getting into HomeAssistant, which has a MyQ integration. I thought it might be useful. I figured that since the wall panel let me open/close the door, switch on/off the light, allowed me to change settings, and gave a temperature readout in the garage that they'd export that through their app and I could pull it in and do something useful with it. I mean, the data is there, and so it should be accessible, right?
Do you know what the integration gave me? "Door goes up"/"Door goes down". That's it!. I get no temperature readings at all, there is no way to partially open the door (And triggering it from the integration/app flashes the garage light and loudly beeps the entire time the door is moving), and if I want to turn the light on/off, I have to buy an add-on light from the manufacturer. However they have relentlessly pimped me their "Amazon Key" service so I can get my packages delivered into my garage when I'm not home. That didn't stop until I disabled that account.
Don't even get me started on how the "Easy" ThinkQ junk built into my new dish washer failed to even pair with its App and do anything.
Until and unless the manufacturers get their act together and give us something useful, there will be no more of that nonsense happening at my house or the houses of anyone I'm close to.
No value + you want to charge subscriptions. (Score:2)
Build it into the device as a 1st class citizen. And don't charge customers on top of the cost of the device. The app and device should never stop working, no matter what your company does or what happens to the company.
Smart Device or Dumb Consumer? (Score:2)
Maybe smart consumers want dumb devices due to the blatant privacy, security, and advertising. Only dumb consumers don't understand the numerous problem with "smart" devices.
Cloudy days for them - must be SAD (Score:2)
Corporations don't get "sad" they are heartless beasts fiending for next quarter's profits.
Unpopular (on /.) opionion - I want "smart" appliances. I really do. I want my washer/dryer to tell me when it's done while I'm out mowing the yard. I even want it to sense the "wetness" of the clothes, and continue to run until they are warm, dry and fluffy, rather than a hot and slightly soggy mess.
What I don't want is for them to track how much laundry I do in a day, the weight of said hot soggy mess, what brand
What's the point (Score:2)
You identified the reason why. (Score:2)
The fact that you KNOW that 50% of your customers connects those things is exactly why the other 50% do NOT connect it. If I want to tell you my dishwashing habits and when I sit on the can, I'll tweet about it.
Sounds like appliance makers seem playing dumb... (Score:3)
It is pretty obvious when reading forums or top notch news sites like Slashdot why people don't connect devices to the Internet:
* Ads, ads, more ads, ever more intrusive ads, long video ads, unceasing ads, unblockable ads, adds which require interaction, ads which require interaction to use the appliance, malvertising, and did I mention pervasive ads? We get plenty of that on our main stuff. Why do we need to have to have that on our toaster?
* Getting hacked. Want to know the best way to keep people out of your stuff? It isn't firmware updates. It isn't ever more tougher TPM chips, DMCA measures, and anti-jailbreak stuff. It is not having a remote connection at all. Nobody is going to hack a "smart" device if it never is on the Internet. If there are debug issues, have a USB slot or even better, a SD card slot so someone can put a card into that to obtain logs.
* Subscriptions. Heated seats? That's $100 a month. Ten pages of paper out from your printer? $10/month. People are just tired of that shit, and even though the marketers love it, customers don't, and are not going to use devices which can later be "optimized" for subscriptions. Want to use that HDMI port, or use HDCP? Pay $10 a month. 4k video? Another $10. Heck with that.
* Rental instead of ownership. If a TV or appliance demands I click on a EULA before using, it gets returned as faulty, as it refuses to do the task it was applied to. If everyone did that, appliance makers would stop that garbage. I'm not renting the toaster I bought. It is a purchase.
* Planned obsolescence. Older devices worked and were easily repairable, but newer ones which require a special board with custom chips that have heavily protected firmware, which would randomly "fail"? Great for profits, crap for e-waste. People don't want that.
* Do we need MCUs at all? Nothing wrong with tried and true, mechanical items. Even for electronics, a 555 timer can do just as much as a high-zoot MCU with a custom firmware. Why do we need all this proprietary code for stuff that doesn't need it?
Re:Sounds like appliance makers seem playing dumb. (Score:5, Informative)
I am in security. My day job is to test servers for security flaws. And I am an active IoT developer. That's my hobby, nothing more.
So of course, those "smart" appliances attract me like honey does attract flies.
What I've seen so far is, at best, atrocious. At worst, a fucking nightmare. What you routinely encounter is ancient, unpatched libraries, hardcoded credentials, completely insecure setups and security flaws that you find in the hackthebox boxes labeled "easy" with root flag times under 10 minutes. In other words, made by security illiterates.
Which is what you should expect. The reason is simple: The people who are tasked with making this are good at making those appliances. They are neither programmers nor are they in any way security professionals. What more and likely happens in most of these cases is that they design an appliance, then some markedroid dunce comes in and drools all over it while demanding that it be made "smart". It needs to be "on the internet". And of course it needs to gather information that we can sell to advertisers as a new revenue stream.
So now you have engineers who are very likely very good at creating dishwashers, washing machines and TVs but have ZERO experience making these systems secure. Because that was never a requirement. And if you think they could get at least a consultant to give them a few hints, please dream on. These people cost money. And all we need is that the dishwasher "goes on the internet" and sends us information.
So they frankenstein together some libraries that somehow connect to the company computer and then send some data. They may even get an intern or two from the local university who try to get an IT related degree.
And if it compiles, ship it.
Security doesn't even enter the equation as an afterthought. And so these things are rife with security problems that may well be used to compromise your entire home network.
And they wonder why people aren't stupid enough to connect them to it.
they are upset (Score:2)
they are upset they cannot send an update to break things the day after the warranty expired.
declining replacement purchases... (Score:2)
Laundry (Score:4, Funny)
My washing machine inspects my shorts and recommends a dietary fiber supplement.
No thanks.
Re:Laundry (Score:4, Funny)
Remote Service Diagnostic (Score:2)
The stove my mother just purchased has Wifi connectivity. The thing the salesperson mentioned was the ability to remotely diagnose some things immediately. That makes sense. Having said that, I didn't hook that up for her.
FFS... (Score:2)
I make smart appliances (Score:2)
Second, unless you have a high bandwidth feature WiFi is a terrible way to connect devices. The security model is backwards, your device is on the internet and all the security issues with that and lastly when your customers change their WiFi router they won't rem
Re: (Score:2)
What are these guys smokin'? (Score:2)
Garbage software doesn't help (Score:2)
Considering the "smart" bits are all basically garbage tier software that almost works some of the time, I doubt they'll get much more traction, either. And calling some of the "apps" from "smart" device makers "garbage tier" is insulting to garbage.
Benefit to company, not me. (Score:3)
The company gets a ton of data and I get.... notification my load is done. You want all my data? Then give me the washer/dryer for free. Because that is the only way I'd be willing to let you spy on me.
It amazes me that there are idiots out there that will not just give that info away for free but pay more money and take the time to set it up.
Also, exactly how much is the number of times I run a load of clothing or dishes worth? Who really wants to know that besides the people selling detergent?
What to do? (Score:2)
That means companies like Whirlpool are missing out on services revenue, which is increasingly crucial to manufacturers facing rising input costs,
Solution: Raise prices. Cut undesired features like WIFI.
declining replacement purchases, and
Solution: Design and engineer shorter product lifetimes.
hungry shareholders.
Take the company private.
</sarcasm>
When does support end? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
SaaS - Shitting as a Service.
Flushing is sold separately and dependent on a subscription.
Re: (Score:2)
That's exactly the reason why we do NOT connect it...
Re: (Score:2)
No can do. If you can repair it, you can remove the spyware.
Re: (Score:2)