Zuckerberg Encourages Employees To Get Back To the Office (seattletimes.com) 121
An anonymous reader writes: Facebook parent company Meta, which emerged as an outspoken advocate of remote work during the pandemic, is encouraging employees to come back to the office. Some early analysis "suggests that engineers who either joined Meta in-person and then transferred to remote or remained in-person performed better on average than people who joined remotely," Chief Executive Officer Mark Zuckerberg said in a statement Tuesday. Zuckerberg cautioned that the data requires further study, but encouraged employees to "find more opportunities to work with your colleagues in person" in the meantime. In 2021, Facebook established a policy that allowed all employees to work remotely even after the pandemic if their jobs could be done outside of an office. Several big tech companies including Amazon, Apple and Twitter have been trying to get workers to return to the office.
Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the pretext.
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Yes it's a trap. If you go into the office they'll know you work there and fire you!
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Yes it's a trap. If you go into the office they'll know you work there and fire you!
(Them) "The hell are you doing here?"
(You) "The hell are YOU doing here?"
Lather, rinse, and repeat.
Re: Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:2)
No they know you work there and the people at home get laid off.
All to drive back to the expensive useless office culture that doesn't exist outside of upper management
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Or take away your red Swingline stapler and wait for you to quit.
Re:Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:4, Insightful)
Or this is layoffs through attrition. [chron.com]
I don't know anything about the laws in the California but I was told, anecdotally, that there are regulations regarding the amount, circumstances and number of layoffs that Californian companies can do. If Meta wants more, but can't for legal reasons, they may be actually trying to get people to quit.
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I don't know specifics by state, but:
-Someone quitting is generally cheaper (e.g. no severance required)
-While you can have large layoffs, the bigger the layoffs the larger the threshold of notice required (at least in some states). So depending on layoffs they might incur one or two months salary compared to quitting. However attrition generally would take longer, so that doesn't matter.
One concern is that in attrition, you generally lose the people you least want to lose. If you do feel that forever r
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I don't know that with any job I had in the far, far past, where I was let go...that I ever got severance...?
Granted, those really were before my "real job
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Early in my career I got a one month severance.
Colleagues that have been laid off lately have gotten 6 month severance packages, on top of the WARN notice time period.
I personally know some that have 6 figure parachutes on *top* of their 6 month severance.
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Severance may be a company policy, but it's never required. In fact the more desparate a company is the less severance is. At a past company there had been layoffs now and then and lots of attrition, but some stuck around because they wanted the sweet severance; and instead they were laid off without the severance.
it's to avoid legal liability (Score:1)
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-While you can have large layoffs, the bigger the layoffs the larger the threshold of notice required (at least in some states).
This is true, but, so what? What's the hurry? Facebook is still making lots of money. Its not like they will go bankrupt if they can't lay off people immediately.
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2 months of payroll is more expensive than 1 month. However, as I said, this hardly makes a difference if you are comparing to attrition where they tend to wait 3-4 months to decide that people who can quit, have quit.
Re:Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:4)
Significant changes in employment terms that result in someone unwilling or unable to continue in that job, such as requiring one's regular presence in an office where that was previously not an expectation, basically count as termination, legally speaking. So it would make that person eligible for unemployment pay, severance, or whatever other benefit might apply to an involuntarily terminated employee.
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With attrition the goal is to annoy someone into finding a job with another company and have them voluntarily end their employment, generally as they find a new job.
If you say "You have to come into the office" and the employee doesn't *want* to,that doesn't count as termination. The employee could ignore the edict and if the employer doesn't let them go, then their employment continues. You can talk about termination only when the employer actually, you know, terminates the employment. There are other t
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It's called a WARN notice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Oh look, more layoffs are coming (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, this finally identifies a useful purpose for all their VR headsets.
They can have everyone at the office wear one, and they'll all be programmed to make it seem like each worker is alone in their own private office with a nice desk, a closed door, and a window view. Slap in earbuds playing loud white noise, and everyone will be highly productive.
People will just have to be trained to not swing their arms around too far so they don't accidentally whack the guy who's actually crammed in next to them.
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Yep, the photos I've seen are frightening. This is thinly-veiled discrimination against the neurodiverse, and against people with families or who whose age doesn't begin with a 2.
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You are probably referring to the WARN act, which states that if a layoff is above a certain percentage size, the employees must be given 60 days notice, or 60 days paid leave-of-absence among other various "land on your feet" measures such as training for resume writing, interview skills, etc.
Boo hoo. California doesn't allow you to lay off thousands of people without giving them at least a little runway to land. If people quit, that's quite another kettle of fish.
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Post-text. :)
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
But yes, if they need to cut more they'll use in-office as another excuse.
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The biggest proponents of RTO have been companies that have either a lot of owned real estate, or long-term rental contracts.
Even if the employees aren't in the office doesn't mean maintenance goes away. The lawn still needs to be mowed, plumbing still breaks, roofs still leak, AC units still fail... In fact it can lead to more maintenance needing to be done if there isn't anyone there to catch problems while they're nascent.
On top of that companies that own t
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It can't be the pretext when the cuts have already been announced. All he's doing is bringing people into the office to take stock of who will be let go.
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Personally, I'd like to "encourage" Zuck to go fist his own asshole right on up to the elbow. At this point, anyone with any kind of professional networking or contacts at other companies is probably trying to get off that sinking garbage barge anyway.
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Very slowly, clearly.. "FUCK THE LANDLORDS" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll say it very slowly, very clearly, so the retarded have a chance to catch up: "FUCK THE LANDLORDS."
That's the only reason these asshats are clamoring for a return-to-office -- some companies don't even make money selling things -- they make money leasing land. McDonald's comes to mind. Sears was like this before, maybe it's the only piece of them that still makes money.
Fuck 'em. Fuck the lot of them, and their stupid governance who shut down all the local economies to begin with. No, I don't care if it decimates Downtown.
These asshats took and took and took, and they're not taking this. Where I"m at it was made plainly clear to management that we're not interested in the 40 minute gridlock commute, or the eating lunch at any number of really shitty establishments (and a couple of good ones, who still get my $).
Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all. You upset the world with your control-freak tendencies, now we fuck you right back where it hurts -- the pocketbook. Fair trade, no? You ruin mine, I'll ruin yours.
If a war has been waged against the middle class, let's respond in kind: FUCK THE LANDLORDS.
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This is it exactly. Commercial real estate. This is why even state government agencies are being pressured to get back in the office: most states lease their office space.
If the wealthy elites want something, the media will print endless stories about why it is necessary and why, in fact, everyone already loves doing it. The government will pass any laws necessary to get the thing done, in a remarkably bipartisan and timely manner.
There are a number of studies that show that the preferences of the average v
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If you don't want to rent, then don't. Just don't be surprised that nobody wants to let you live in their home free of charge.
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This is more commercial real estate. Who mentioned homes?
You knee jerk reactionaries are hilarious. You whine about people being triggered, but one scary word can make your whole brain shut down, to the point you can't even comprehend plain English.
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If you don't want to rent, then don't. Just don't be surprised that nobody wants to let you live in their home free of charge.
1. This is about commercial real estate and the typical workplace.
2. Not that it's any of your beeswax. but I don't rent. I bought. I pay the bank, and my mortgage doesn't change on the whims of the market. I bought just after the last financial meltdown, the one in 2008. I almost lost the house and car in 2016, but held fast, got back on my feet, and kept both. I own the car free and clear.. the house, I still owe on that. I think I aged 10 years in that span.
3. The people I work for, they own the
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Where I work they're shedding leases if they can, and closing some places they do own.
I pass a building complex on my commute that is very nice, buildings look good, good landscaping and not cramped, very convenient access to mass transit and a freeway off ramp, good location, everything's perfect. But it's been unoccupied for at least 5 years that I can remember. I can't figure out why, and can only assume is that the lease is too expensive.
In California, for tax purposes, leasing is the main source of of
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Well, that, and I would also argue that there are a bunch of managers being outed as completely useless and unnecessary. They want their "teams" to come back to the office so they can look like they actually do something at the company other than leech resources and make workers less productive.
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Sears stores built before the 1980s were mostly owned by Sears on land owned by Sears. Sears stores built after the 1980s were mostly build-to-suit lease-back arrangements owned by the developer/mall owner. When Lampert took over Sears, he sold off the Sears-owned property to another company of his and collected rent from Sear
No problem Zuck (Score:5, Funny)
...lemme get into the METAOFFICE wit muh VR on!
Is this thing on? Can you see which finger I'm holding up bud?!
Huh?? (Score:5, Funny)
What happened to the Metaverse? Isn't VR better than RR? (Real Reality)
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It's hard to walk over to the next cubicle without legs.
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Nah, this is VR. you float over with the joystick control on the handheld controller.
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That is what I told her.. First, you float over the joystick, controlling it with your hand, then once its in the right spot you ease down over it.
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Employees ask to drop the VR Fantasy (Score:2)
Yup, and Employees ask Zuck to drop the VR Fantasy and save the company while he still can.
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I don't buy it (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm still convinced that the reason for this push to "Return To The Office" is fueled by boomers in middle to upper management who want to be able to go back to having affairs with the cover of "I had to work late".
LK
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It's a mix of many things. First, "loyalty", or rather, the fear of being laid off, can only be cultured "between the lines". And of course you can't control peons talking with each other as easily if they're talking over teams and discord as you could when they would have to talk in office where everyone might be eavesdropping.
Then there's the real estate value. Large companies tend to own the offices and they want these things to retain their value. Which is hard to do when they're essentially empty.
Then
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Except the peons could talk when going to eat, or when they're on the bus returning home, or even during a nice walk outside going to the parking lot.
Some middle managers are qui
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Except the peons could talk when going to eat, or when they're on the bus returning home, or even during a nice walk outside going to the parking lot.
Well, no, not really, because you never have any privacy in any of those situations. You never feel safe and secure because there's people at the next table or in the bus. In a teams chat, it's just you and your buddy. Or, rather, that's how it feels.
Some middle managers are quit useful, the problem is of course of middle managers that are only capable to putting spokes on the wheels of the workers.
Yes, I have such a useful specimen. And you can pry him from my cold, dead hands, if he goes, I will move along. I've searched for 20 years to find something like that. Just to give you an idea just HOW rare this is.
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Again, what matters is not how it is but how it feels to the user. A conversation on a bus is actually less likely to end up eavesdropped on than a teams call, yet people perceive more privacy in the call.
Question (Score:2)
Times get tough, and you have to cut your workforce in half. Who do you terminate? Remember all other aspects are equal.
I dunno about you, but in a company I ran, people who dictate that they refuse to work anywhere but home are going to be allowed to stay home, if needs must be. Staying home was priority number 1.
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Times get tough, and you have to cut your workforce in half. Who do you terminate? Remember all other aspects are equal.
But all other aspects aren't equal. The correct answer is: The less productive and more expendable ones.
Why would I care where they are over what they produce? Unless I'm in the keeping-chairs-from-flying-off-into-orbit business, of course.
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Times get tough, and you have to cut your workforce in half. Who do you terminate? Remember all other aspects are equal.
But all other aspects aren't equal. The correct answer is: The less productive and more expendable ones.
Correct - it's a hypothetical simplified to illustrate a point.
Why would I care where they are over what they produce?
Good question. Promotions, human interaction, professional development, networking. Now it is quite possible that a person might just be in the top one percent of programmers, and wants to only program, nothing else. Seems a little "Brave New World"ish to me, but okay. If s/he is an Alan Turing or John Rochefort level, yeah - maybe they could stay home, and maybe they could dictate to you.
But unless Slashdot is the nexus of programming whe
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Promotions
Don't happen. If you want to be promoted, apply for the job you want at another company. Nobody promotes internally anymore because it will invariably start the question why Fred and not Steve. Or, worse, why not Tiffany. That simply doesn't happen if you hire from outside.
human interaction
That alone is enough reason for me to not want to come to the office. Human interaction is detrimental to my productivity. Humans are, essentially, time wasters.
professional development
My skills improve best when not interrupted by coworkers.
networking
I frankly have no re
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Promotions
Don't happen. If you want to be promoted, apply for the job you want at another company. Nobody promotes internally anymore because it will invariably start the question why Fred and not Steve. Or, worse, why not Tiffany. That simply doesn't happen if you hire from outside.
Well, It isn't that way everywhere. Where I retired from, there were lots of internal promotions. The issue for me though was that I have the wrong genitalia.
Women were fast tracked. with promotions. It was a tad awkward for my employer, because they were a University, and that beings a whole lot of issues regarding gender and sex. I did go along with it, but with a proviso that my raise better be really good, or else I would bail. I may have written about this before, but there were people complaining a
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Dont forget health. Since working from home, I dont pick up every sniffle, cough, snot from coworkers that insist in coming into the office and spreading their germs everywhere. Anecdotally, I have seen far fewer "taking a sick day" emails since WFH started. Coworkers aren't bringing their kids latest sickness of the day in to spread.
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Good question. Promotions, human interaction, professional development, networking.
Sounds like touchy feely bullshit and ass kissing. Is the completed work of acceptable quality and done within the allotted time? Good, work wherever and whatever hours please you.
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Good question. Promotions, human interaction, professional development, networking.
Sounds like touchy feely bullshit and ass kissing. Is the completed work of acceptable quality and done within the allotted time? Good, work wherever and whatever hours please you.
The more I read of some of these posts, I think perhaps it is much better for many of us to stay away from other people.
Human interaction is a natural thing. Has nothing to do with touching and feeling. Too much isolation and lack of human-human interaction is not mentally healthy for people other than misanthropes (which might be considered a neurosis anyhow) Professional development - I was required to travel to symposia or trade shows as a condition of employment - not one cent of that money was waste
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To be honest, I think I'd let the workers that have the poorest work performance go first....
Seems the logical move to me...I don't care where they work, as long as the DO the work on time and do it well.
Isn't that the key to gettin
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To be honest, I think I'd let the workers that have the poorest work performance go first....
Of course - I would as well. It was a very simplified hypothetical, to demonstrate the point that an employee who will only work from home is less flexible than one who will work from home or come in in person if need be. They do not fit all the needs. If I needed a person who will come in, they don't fit that need. And if the work ended up needing someone who will come to work, I'd offer it to them. If they refused, I'd look for a new person who would come in, because I needed a person who would come in.
I
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Keep going I’m almost ready to cum!
I do believe you.
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The remote workers clearly feel comfortable and productive working remotely, whereas those happy to work on site clearly don't have confidence in their ability to work remotely.
Umm, excellent way to not read what I posted, But it does show your prejudices. If you had paid attention, you would have read they whole thing before getting pissed. I very distinctly wrote "and 25 who will work on site, or at home if need be". You have half of your employees who will do as as needed, the other half who dictate they will not. I'll take the 25 who are adept at getting the work finished, you can have the subordinates who think they call all the shots.
So I save a fortune by getting rid of the pointless office space,
That reminds me of the guy who wanted m
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Good job setting up that really inflexible strawman. Did you hurt yourself beating it down?
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Good job setting up that really inflexible strawman. Did you hurt yourself beating it down?
U mad bro? It was a very simplified hypothetical question. That it triggered you to claim it was a strawman is telling.
The simple question is what is more valuable to a company - in the same work, who is more valuable to a company - a person who will do the work as needed, or one who places refusal to do certain things?
And by the way, a question is not ever a strawman. It was designed to engage thinking, yet apparently tyhe same people who demand to work from home, see it as an attack. Now that could
Reality (Score:2)
Looks like the Meta employees (Score:2)
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Of course they are, you didn't think Zuck would have to pay did you?
Re: Looks like the Meta employees (Score:2)
*Nods* Like Pratchett wrote, when banks fail, it's not bankers who starve.
back to the office for you! (Score:2)
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Sure, some businesses think the way you do. But smart business owners who (remember) are in it for the profit, will keep high-productivity employees regardless of where they work and let go of low-productivity employees.
Being a dickhead and ordering employees to do something just because they can might make upper management feel big and powerful... but it's not a profit-maximizing strategy.
In other words (Score:2)
Facebook's onboarding tools suck.
Use money (Score:5, Interesting)
Why don't they pay a butt-in-chair bonus and let people decide whether they want the bonus or not? Use money to sort them, not vague insinuation.
Is that SOB... (Score:1)
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Now I can fire you to your face (Score:2)
hahahaha if facebook's board of directors had any guts they'd fire ZUCKERBERG for causing his stock's giant collapse
haha, but not you (Score:2)
Haha, he just told another 10,000 NOT to come back to the office.
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You all have to see that remote work is generally not as good as in office work.
Jesus fucking christ.
Remember when this place was full of intelligent people? Gone are those days, replaced by a bunch of entitled, ignorant little shits. You all truly aren't ready for what's coming, for being told precisely what you're worth and having to get real jobs where you have to do real work.
I'll have you know I do just as little work at home as I did in the office.
Re: Ok, you all have to see it now (Score:2)
You. I like you.
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Just like open-plan office work is generally not as good as office work with a door. Single remote workers who live alone generally are quite productive while working from home. Anyone with a family or roommate probably suffers as much as open-plan office workers who have to deal with the distractions other humans cause.
So we have a real dichotomy here, You either stay at home, and be the best workers on the planet, or you go to die in an open floor plan office. Amirite?
I am pretty well convinced by now that the stay at home only crowd is doing the rest of us a favor by not coming into work.n
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Yes, as a matter of fact, the stay-at-home-only crowd is doing you many favors, including:
1. Being productive and getting a lot done.
2. Not presenting distractions to you while you are working.
3. Not spreading diseases to you at work.
4. Not polluting by commuting to and from work.
5. Saving the business money on office real-estate.
6. Enabling you to continue working in the office with others of like mind (which is to say, not trying to force you to work differently than how you would prefer).
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Yes, as a matter of fact, the stay-at-home-only crowd is doing you many favors, including:
1. Being productive and getting a lot done. 2. Not presenting distractions to you while you are working. 3. Not spreading diseases to you at work. 4. Not polluting by commuting to and from work. 5. Saving the business money on office real-estate. 6. Enabling you to continue working in the office with others of like mind (which is to say, not trying to force you to work differently than how you would prefer).
7. making my competition a whole lot easier. I only note the very true professional risks of people who won't leave home. In my professional life, I like you just where you are, and where you are going to stay. If that's your raison d'être, stand your ground, it is not a me problem. I approve 100 percent, homie.
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Anyone with a family or roommate probably suffers as much as open-plan office workers who have to deal with the distractions other humans cause.
Unlike my coworkers my family makes a solid effort to keep my interruptions minimal. That even includes the cats.
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Heh. My coworkers and I make our pets part of the meeting.
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Remember when this place was full of intelligent people?
No. I remember when it was dominated by neckbeard curmudgeons, though.
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I’ve noticed that a number of posters are incapable of posting anything except political talking points and get really mum when engaged technically.
Wonder what brought them to a web 1.0 site for nerds?
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Iâ(TM)ve noticed that a number of posters are incapable of posting anything except political talking points and get really mum when engaged technically.
Wonder what brought them to a web 1.0 site for nerds?
It can't be money, because no troll farm will pay enough for anyone to put up with this shit.
So what is it? Masturbatory self-affirmation?
About the only thing left in here, as you point out, are people who for some reason love to spout how perfect Communism is, how great it is, how we should all be like them. Biggest fucking scolds since the Catholic Church. (I was raised catholic, and guilt-tripping you is how they operate.. just like my mother and her mother, and just like the Politically Correct scold
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Oh yeah the good ole days when your average Slashdot poster did real work.
pfftt this place has always been full of NEETs and BOFHs on the 3rd hour of extended lunch. Even when the place was popular the hardest work most Slashdotters ever experienced was a Seattle 100 or major outage.
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BOFH is what every smart worker should aspire to be.
Re:Ok, you all have to see it now (Score:4, Insightful)
You all have to see that remote work is generally not as good as in office work.
Jesus fucking christ.
Remember when this place was full of intelligent people? Gone are those days, replaced by a bunch of entitled, ignorant little shits. You all truly aren't ready for what's coming, for being told precisely what you're worth and having to get real jobs where you have to do real work.
Boomer manager identified! You sound like a sour old dried-out husk of a Boomer, longing for the return of when you could lord over your rows and rows of workers under your thumb.
Listen, asshole: If you think remote systems engineers don't do shit, why don't you fire all of yours, and then see how well you get on with it.
It is middle-management like you that needs to retire and GTFO of the way. Now! Git! Go! Don't even bother packing your shit, Steve from Security will escort you out, and we'll mail your tchochkes and pieces of flair to your home address of record.
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You know why middle management exists? To implement the plans of the higher ups. They also act as a buffer between you and the higher ups so you don't have to hear from them every day.
For reference [bbc.com].
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I've been middle-management. NEVER AGAIN. Once in the USAF, once in private industry. NEVER AGAIN.
You get shit on from above and from below. You're always on call, and the first to take a bullet when shit goes south.
I appreciate my middle management, but then again, I'm in a very strange shop where things are good. If you have a good manager, be good to them too.
I've been in places with shit middle management, and they were of little use to stop the garbage from upstairs getting to us, interrupting us a
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Now! Git! Go!
Isn't your point that these technologies are beyond middle management's ken?
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Listen, non-boomer, stop saying "boomer" like some bubble gum chewing brat hanging out at the candy store!
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A balance is really ideal, *especially* in the modern workplace that is open plan and hot desking.
Coming in ever so often has you do better passive communication with folks and also tends to make you care about the work. However it is a place of supreme distraction and the companies have invested less and less in actually having a place to call your own. Further, the time spent commuting to and from work just wastes valuable time.
Working from home means you have your space and time to focus and concentrate
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In an open-plan hoteling/hot-desking environment there's no fucking way I'd come in every day. That kind of arrangement is by definition for people who do not come into the office every weekday. I'd do that maybe 2 days/week max.
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That's just your bias speaking. The universal discovery here is that remote work is just-as-good-or-better than in-office work (provided the nature of the job allows for remote work).
There ARE problems with some employees just not working, trying to take their company for a ride. In my experience, the lack of productivity is obvious, especially to the employee's teammates. Same as with in-office work. So, identify these by their lack of productivity, axe them, and you are good.
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You all have to see that remote work is generally not as good as in office work.
What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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