US Approves California Plan Requiring Half of Heavy Duty Trucks Be EV By 2035 (reuters.com) 217
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on Friday said it was approving California's plans to require a rising number of zero-emission heavy-duty trucks as the state pushes to cut pollution. Reuters reports: California Governor Gavin Newsom said as a result of the plan, "half of all heavy duty trucks sold in CA will be electric by 2035." "Time to stop playing small ball," he added. Under an executive order Newsom signed in 2020, California plans to mandate by 2045 that all operations of medium- and heavy-duty vehicles be zero emission where feasible, shifting away from diesel-powered trucks.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) had sought waivers from the Clean Air Act to set heavy-duty vehicle and engine emission standards. California has been joined by Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Washington and Vermont in adopting the rules. CARB has noted heavy-duty vehicles greater than 14,000 pounds comprised 3% of vehicles on California roads, but account for more than 50% of nitrogen oxides and fine particle diesel pollution.
The EPA said it is not yet approving California's request to set new regulations on pollutant exhaust emission standards for nitrogen oxide (NOx) and particulate matter for 2024 and future medium- and heavy-duty engines and vehicles. Separately, California in August moved to require all new light-duty cars and trucks sold in the state by 2035 to be either electric or plug-in electric hybrids. California needs an EPA waiver for that regulation.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) had sought waivers from the Clean Air Act to set heavy-duty vehicle and engine emission standards. California has been joined by Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Washington and Vermont in adopting the rules. CARB has noted heavy-duty vehicles greater than 14,000 pounds comprised 3% of vehicles on California roads, but account for more than 50% of nitrogen oxides and fine particle diesel pollution.
The EPA said it is not yet approving California's request to set new regulations on pollutant exhaust emission standards for nitrogen oxide (NOx) and particulate matter for 2024 and future medium- and heavy-duty engines and vehicles. Separately, California in August moved to require all new light-duty cars and trucks sold in the state by 2035 to be either electric or plug-in electric hybrids. California needs an EPA waiver for that regulation.
Token Gesture (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
California can regulate out-of-state trucks that come into the state.
Re: (Score:2)
One way they could limit this would be to construct numerous transfer ports near the borders of the state. Out-of-state trucks would be required to either be EV or deliver their load to a transfer port. From there an EV truck could travel the rest of the way into the state.
This would either encourage trucking companies to switch to EV trucks or put many goods into standard shipping containers which could be easily transferred to EV trucks. Any trucking company that had to manually unload their cargo so i
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Trucking companies will just buy and license their fleet out of state
Unlikely, since electric trucks are cheaper to operate and maintain.
By 2035, most new trucks will be electric. California's mandate may speed that up a little, but it will happen regardless.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Long distance lorries only have a service life of 5 years or so. The switch to electric is going to happen very swiftly, the same way it is happening with buses right now.
Good luck if you are a lorry manufacturer and you do not have a plan to transition 100% of production to electric by 2030. China won't wait for you, and Chinese companies will eagerly capture the market. Just like with buses.
Re: (Score:2)
So an average of 146 miles/day? At 50 mph you could cover that distance in 3 hours. That seems low for a long-distance truck. Google suggests that it's more common for long-distance trucks to go more like 500 mi/day, which would go through 800,000 mi in about 4.5 years. There's some wiggle room because a truck won't be active every single day, but they aren't going to be idle for two-thirds of the year.
I guess by "obviously bullshit" and "ignorant of real life", you were referring more to yourself than to t
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Token Gesture (Score:3)
Re: Token Gesture (Score:2)
Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe it'll work out. But my semi-professional opinion is that it won't, in a very specific way:
The electric stuff will be sold in the required numbers, possibly with heavy taxpayer subsidies, but the real work that trucks/cars/etc do will be borne by the ever-shrinking pool of grandfathered gasoline and diesel vehicles.
The costs to operate these things will rise as time goes on. And that will make the failure of the policy along the economic dimension easier to obfuscate.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, local work will easily shift to EVs, and fleets will see long term savings too. Then regional will shift. Then national.
Re:Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:5, Insightful)
Where are you getting the electricity? The only way this works is with a huge nuclear energy buildout. Good luck getting California on board with that.
Re: (Score:2)
Where are you getting the electricity?
Converting 50% of long-haul trucking to electricity will increase electricity consumption by less than 2%.
Re: Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:2)
Re: Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:2)
Re: Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:2)
Hot air, clearly.
Re:Mandate unicorn farts and pixie dust too (Score:5, Informative)
Where are you getting the electricity?
The diesel engine can't possibly get over 60% efficiency, and that's a pipe dream in roadgoing diesels, they just aren't big enough and have to deal with too many different conditions. They can barely get 50% in a container ship. Large steam turbines can be over 90% efficient, EV motors are 95% efficient, and you get regen which is meaningful even on long haul trips if significant grades are involved. Refinement and distribution are both cheaper for oil power plants than for a plethora of diesel trucks, and we lose less than 5% in transmission in this country. So the answer is that even if the energy comes from the same source it's always come from, the electric trucks are still less polluting and more efficient than the diesels, and you actually save energy. Good thing, since that's needed for manufacturing.
There's also no reason why we couldn't retrofit diesel trucks into EVs, since the fuel tanks just hang on the frame and the entire vehicle is designed for maintenance, so there's really no need to replace the entire truck. Even the controls are standardized and already usually throttle by wire and all based on standard and/or well-known protocols so you wouldn't even have to change anything in the cockpit. We probably will just replace them, though.
No breakthrough needed (Score:5, Informative)
Note that TheMiddleRoad specified "local work". Consider that the USPS is heading towards most of their fleet being EV.
Let's address your concerns, with respect to "local work" trucks.
Take hours to recharge: Tesla can charge 200 miles in 15 minutes. [tesla.com] False.
Don't last very long between charges: 200-300+ miles, the same as many gasoline cars. With a local delivery truck, this should be more than enough. Consider that most USPS average only 24 miles/day. Some googling for fedex/ups/amazon says about 35-45 miles/day. My brother's work is basically to work site and back, so would max out at around 100 miles, as they don't want to pay the techs for driving too far.
Weigh 10 times as much as gas tank: So what? Consider the whole system: the electric motors weigh much less than a equally powerful engine, so are gasoline vehicles no-go because their engines weigh more? Effective range, cost per mile, those are the relevant statistics.
Total vehicle weight: Again, research [researchgate.net] shows that EVs are only about 25% heavier, not 100-150%.
Bridges and overpasses are built to take that variation.
Re: (Score:3)
Oh, and forgot to mention:
Most local delivery vehicles spend most of the night parked. They might leave early, but be parked by early afternoon. So fast charging is not a requirement, so long as they can get the necessary miles back by the next shift.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bridges and overpasses are built to take that variation.
Worth noting that bridges and overpasses are basically never limited by the tare weight of the vehicle but rather weight of the payload. Even if the truck literally was twice as heavy it would be irrelevant.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry your criticisms of EV are misplaced in this line of faulty reasoning. Bridges and overpasses aren't going to collapse from heavier EVs. No electric car or light truck is going to come close to the legal axle limit that is conservatively well under the design limits of lbs per square foot.
As for commercial vehicles, there are strict gross vehicle weight limits on the roads. And to be efficient and economical, most trucks on the road are loaded to the legal maximum weight as much of the time as they
Watching for the implementation (Score:2)
*This legislation declared the value of pi to be 3.
Re: (Score:2)
What? Pi isn't 3?
I was public school educated.
Half? (Score:2)
Measured how? By vehicle numbers? Vehicle numbers in each weight class? Total GVWR? Because if you pick the correct metric, converting local delivery trucks to Rivan vans (as Amazon is doing) might get them there.
Re: (Score:2)
They also stop and go constantly, which makes me wonder if their emissions might be up on par with heavier trucks for construction etc.
Disel generators in a trailer (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Trick is, what's the ratio of local delivery vs long haul? Plus, lots of long haul trucks obtained and used outside of California.
So, odds are that the long haul trucks end up being unaffected(registered and purchased elsewhere), and it's mainly the intrastate trucks that need to meet the 50% - of which a huge portion would be local, and thus fine with EV.
Re:Disel generators in a trailer (Score:5, Informative)
Trick is, what's the ratio of local delivery vs long haul?
If you set the cutoff at 500 miles (the maximum range of a Tesla Semi), it is 63% short-haul to 37% long-haul [truckpartsandservice.com]. Moving 50% of all new trucks to electric, then, should be easily within reach.
Plus, lots of long haul trucks obtained and used outside of California.
Only 9.6% of commercial trucks nationwide are licensed in California, serving 11.8% of the population. Unless your trucks are primarily driving in California, you'd be stupid to pay the exorbitant vehicle licensing fees. I rather suspect that with the exception of the owner-operator rigs owned by California residents, the trucks running back and forth from California to the other side of the country are probably all registered in whatever state has the cheapest licensing fees. :-D
So, odds are that the long haul trucks end up being unaffected(registered and purchased elsewhere), and it's mainly the intrastate trucks that need to meet the 50% - of which a huge portion would be local, and thus fine with EV.
The long-haul trucks would be entirely unaffected (see the numbers above), along with up to about one-fifth of the regional routes. 50% shouldn't be a high bar, IMO, unless manufacturers artificially drag their heels. :-)
Re:Disel generators in a trailer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Mod up. Yes Energy Density is what these brainless politicians/committees need to understand. Hauling heavy dirt/rock/steel/sand/lumber/liquids/bricks/tiles will NOT be possible, in a practical sense.
You're joking, right? The Tesla Semi, in its longest-range configuration, has a 500-mile range with a total combined vehicle weight (tandem) of 82,000 pounds. That is basically enough for any load that can be carried legally by truck, assuming you ignore the loss in cargo capacity resulting from the heavier cab contributing more to the total maximum weight.
This of batteries catching file on a Jet plane when introduced, or cables loosing their insulation because or all the shaking/vibration.
Trucks are not jet aircraft. Tesla has been putting cars on the road for a long, long time, and apart from the higher maximum amperage draw (which is
Re: (Score:2)
Mod up. Yes Energy Density is what these brainless politicians/committees need to understand. Hauling heavy dirt/rock/steel/sand/lumber/liquids/bricks/tiles will NOT be possible, in a practical sense.
You're joking, right? The Tesla Semi, in its longest-range configuration, has a 500-mile range with a total combined vehicle weight (tandem) of 82,000 pounds. That is basically enough for any load that can be carried legally by truck, assuming you ignore the loss in cargo capacity resulting from the heavier cab contributing more to the total maximum weight.
I just realized that was probably intended to be in the context of long-haul trucking. In that limited context, you're right.
That said, the goal is only 50% of trucks over 14,000 pounds, and way fewer than half of all class 4 to class 8 trucks are involved in long-haul trucking beyond 500 miles (about 37% as a percentage of routes). And since some of those are presumably owned by big companies with multi-state presence, the percentage of trucks registered in California used for long-haul trucking is proba
Re: (Score:2)
And I would not like an auxiliary generator running in the back whilst carrying hay bales or flammable liquids.
Yes, I imagine you wouldn't want a nasty, dangerous, flammable ICE engine in your truck... Wait? What?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
None of this is a reason why fears of a backup generator lighting the vehicle on fire would not be overblown.
Re: (Score:2)
That's quite the imagination you've got there.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
You can do local delivery with EVs, but I don't think you can do long haul with lots of cargo due to battery capacity limitation. Because of that, I suspect there will be less deliveries to California by road and few shipping companies that would do it would run specialty trucks with a diesel generator in a trailer charging while driving.
You can do it, you just need big enough batteries. If you want to match a truck with a 300 gallon tank that can go about 1,800 miles on a fill up, you need around 9 tons of lithium batteries (costing around $360K). That's a lot of weight, but not unthinkable. To take the longest point to point route in the country without needing to stop to charge at all you would need about 17.5 tons of batteries. Even that could be doable, although you would be seriously eating into the amount of cargo you could haul. Whe
Re: (Score:2)
Yes it is rather inefficient to make (green) hydrogen but carrying 25% of your load as batteries is also inefficient.
Re: (Score:2)
what do you think having 360K replacement cost every 10 years would do to shipping?
The average per-year fuel cost for a long haul rig is $50,000 to $70,000 per year. Even in California you're going to save enough on fuel costs (by cutting that in half) to pay for your battery pack upgrade. It will happen between 0 and 1 times during the life of the average truck, most of which are replaced in about ten years anyway — therefore they won't get any battery pack replacement.
Re: (Score:2)
It would eat some of the cargo capacity, certainly. Of course, there's that "if" there. If you want to match a truck with a 300 gallon tank that go about 1,800 miles on a fill up. Even if the driver goes 75 the whole way, that's 24 hours of driving. Legally, a single driver can't even do that. They're supposed to take a 10 hour break between every 14 hours of driving. So you would need two drivers. Now, you do get arrangements like that, but you also get lots where truck drivers sleep in their cabs. So, you
Easy historic solution for short haul. (Score:3)
Early BEV delivery trucks including "heavy" trucks of the early 1900s era were popular for short haul fleets which recharged off-hours.
If recharge speed isan issue, just buy more tractors. Full torque at zero RPM is nice too especially for urban use. Seaport container transfer will be popular.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, here is my favorite [wikimedia.org], 5 ton, hub motors, 4WS, 4WD, regen. On routes bringing stuff down off the top of a mountain they could charge themselves from regen on the downhill. They were also equipped and sold as series hybrids.
Why are California Government Vehicles not 100% EV (Score:5, Insightful)
All State, County, and City vehicles in California should be 100% EV before imposing such draconian (and unattainable) restrictions of business and residents. The Government should lead by example. Newsom has failed on this point.
Police vehicles, trash trucks, ambulances, fire trucks, politicians vehicles, etc should all be done first.
Re: (Score:2)
All State, County, and City vehicles in California should be 100% EV before imposing such draconian (and unattainable) restrictions of business and residents. The Government should lead by example. Newsom has failed on this point. Police vehicles, trash trucks, ambulances, fire trucks, politicians vehicles, etc should all be done first.
+1 Insightful...if I had mod points
If a government is trying to move it's society in a different direction, EV in this case, set the example for all to follow and "eat your own dog food" (convert to an all EV fleet).
Re: (Score:2)
set the example for all to follow
If you waited for the government (those infamously agile and fast developing organisations) to do anything you'd still be reading this message via telegram lit by a wax candle.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Their requirement isn't particularly draconian or unattainable. They're only requiring that half of new heavy-duty vehicles sold in 2035 be electric, which looks like it should be doable. They're only going to require that all running medium/heavy-duty vehicles are electric by 2045, and even then only when feasible.
Your own requirement, however? You want every single one of their vehicles -- not just new vehicles but every one they own -- to be electric before they can even begin making regulations for othe
Re: (Score:3)
All State, County, and City vehicles in California should be 100% EV before imposing such draconian (and unattainable) restrictions of business and residents.
1) Why should it be 100% when the standard they're imposing is 50%? Shouldn't you be agitating for 50%?
2) What makes you imagine that sales being 50% by 2035 is unattainable? You couldn't comply with what the headlines says for sure (typical editor fail) but it's quite conceivable that the new heavy truck sales will be 50% electric in 12 years. The total number of units is not very big, and there's plenty of short trips being made by heavy trucks which could be filled by EVs.
Now, what actually wouldn't work
Half of heavy duty (Score:2)
So medium?
"Where feasible" (Score:2)
legislate that we all ride unicorns too, yeah? (Score:2)
Does it matter that there is not a single heavy duty commercially viable ev semi tractor on the road today, anywhere?
Then again, we apparently live in a time where "insisting something strongly enough" passes for truth.
Re: (Score:2)
These are not really "heavy trucks" because they don't have the range.
Any truck with a GVWR over 26,001 pounds is a "heavy truck". What a truck with a 250 mile range isn't is "long haul".
Power grid (Score:2)
California getting a good one would not need any EPA waivers and would naturally incentivize truckers and commuters to save money. There is a lot of land more suited for solar farms than growing almonds long term, yet neighboring Nevada is way ahead at actually building the farms, why?
Screwed again (Score:2)
The only way this will be achieved is the same way it is being done for state and federal fleet requirement: price of ICE has to be jacked up to limit their sales in order to meet the mandate. Truck mfrs will have to simply charge a lot more for ICE trucks to meet their mandate.
That means everything that relies on trucking will be more expensive. God only knows what it will mean for supply chains if electricity shortages develop.
On the bright side, I hate that I have to breathe all that diesel pollution.
Re:Funny! (Score:5, Funny)
Mandates will make it all viable.
Re: (Score:2)
Probably not but mandates will hasten electric vehicle development and adoption so even if many of the deadlines have to be extended (which many of them likely will) they will have still worked.
Re: (Score:2)
Who passes a mandate that they believe will be successful AFTER they have left office?
People who aren't selfish assholes? People who actually care about governance? It is possible for a politician to be something other than completely self-serving.
As for the rest, your problem is that you believe this initiative is doomed to fail because you personally dislike EVs and think that most other people think the same way. That doesn't seem to be the case, with EV sales growing at an absolutely incredible rate [seekingalpha.com]. So much so that the problem isn't selling them, it's producing enough to meet incre
Re: Funny! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's very important for changing perceptions of EVs. Right or wrong, we've learned to associate noise with power. Some newer cars and trucks even make fake motor noises [washingtonpost.com] as the more efficient engines are too quiet for some enthusiasts.
I have to wonder if we'll start to see delinquents gather in parking lots for the purpose of blasting engine noise recordings at one another in a hopeless attempt to signal their virility...
Re: (Score:3)
As for the rest, your problem is that you believe this initiative is doomed to fail because you personally dislike EVs and think that most other people think the same way. That doesn't seem to be the case, with EV sales growing at an absolutely incredible rate. So much so that the problem isn't selling them, it's producing enough to meet increasing demand.
That's right, it's doomed to fail because supply can't keep up with demand. If by some miracle California does meet it's goal it will be because they dumped in so much government subsidies into this that it sucks up production capacity from other parts of the world.
There's a shortage of raw materials for batteries, a shortage of production capacity for batteries, and unless there's another World War Two style event to shift production this is not going to change significantly in 12 years. Even in World Wa
Re: (Score:3)
California won't build factories or mines or any such thing.
It'll all be Chinese imports from strip mines and slave labor. Very progressive when you don't have to see the ugly costs of your policies. Just export that shit, import the goodness back.
Re: (Score:3)
We have been through this every single time you troll my threads.
You're always proven wrong and yell how you won.
You're not just stupid but boring and repetitive.
Go have the last post and say the same dumb ass shit you always do. Next time at least read your own links before claiming they support your point when they actually support mine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Feel free to move there. There's a reason so many have been moving out. But I'm sure you know more about how great it is there than people who have lived there their whole lives who are fleeing in droves.
I'd sell you my house there but I already dumped it just before housing prices dropped last year. Sellers are desperate now. You can probably get a good deal like only $950/sq ft now.
Good luck!
Re:Funny! (Score:5, Interesting)
And there are several companies developing even larger electric trucks. It’s actually really viable. Not everywhere, and not all the time. But 50% in 10-15 years isn’t actually all that crazy.
Don’t take my word for it. Do a bit of research on the Ford Lightening and the larger trucks in development. There’s quite a bit of real, honest-to-god heavy manufacturing getting spun up to build those vehicles.
Not a liberal tree-hugger wet dream. In about a decade, you can expect electric trucks to be a really big thing in Texas. Between their massive amount of wind and solar, and the cheap operating costs of electric vehicles, a LOT of conservative, red-blooded states and companies are gonna embrace electrification in the next 20 years.
Re: (Score:3)
Sure but the range of an electric class 8 vehicle is only a fraction of a diesel.
That doesn't mean it can't work. But it does mean that solving this problem is going to require a lot of investment and commitment from from everyone. From paying higher prices for food and goods to building public works like electrified trains to carry good between cities.
Politicians and activists need to get over the idea that someone else will bear the cost and they can go on living life as normal secure in the knowledge th
Re: (Score:3)
But I suspect that electric big-rigs won’t be far behind. You mention energy density. That’s actually something thats EASIER to deal with on a big rig. Lots of extra volume there for a battery. Add 12 inches of length to a big rig, fill that extra space with a Li-ion battery, and I bet you could probably drive that big rig a quarter of the way across the continen
Re: (Score:2)
. Add 12 inches of length to a big rig, fill that extra space with a Li-ion battery, and I bet you could probably drive that big rig a quarter of the way across the continental US on a single charge.
LOL. You should apply at a BEV truck manufacturer!
And electric motors are absolute beasts when it comes to torque. Which is a really big deal for a truck.
Yes. When you use that torque it is a big deal for the battery too.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's also a standardisation opportunity for the trailers here. Truck pulls into charging station. A set of standard sized batteries are removed and replaced with pre-charged ones. Off the truck goes.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure but the range of an electric class 8 vehicle is only a fraction of a diesel.
Yeah, but talking about class 8 is moving the goalpost. Class 8 has a gross vehicle weight of 33,000 pounds. This is talking about all vehicles with a gross vehicle weight over 14,000 pounds, which would be class 4 and up.
A good example of a class 4 truck would be a typical UPS delivery truck. There are a heck of a lot more of those than there are tractor trailers, and approximately none of those are driven more than double-digit miles per day. So you could electrify 100% of those tomorrow, subject to a
Re: (Score:2)
Just curious, what are you hauling around every day that weighs 140k pounds?
I assume that's over multiple loads and not a single ginormous load...?
Re: (Score:2)
Grains and other bulk commodities.
Half the trucks on the road here are B train configuration, 8 axles, 63.5 GVW tonnes.
Also there are many 9 axle turnpike double units on the main roads between cities. They are also 140,000 or 63.5 tonnes GVW.
Re: (Score:2)
Cool, thanks for replying. The only farm stuff I know is from tv and they're never serious.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry I should have been more clear. That's single loads, not multiple.
This size of truck is slowly becoming more popular in the US, but many state DOTs restrict the GVW more than they should in my opinion. In northern Montana they can almost carry 140,000 legally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Nothing to do with BEVs, but I should note that this size of truck is much more efficient than anything smaller. For example we used to haul grain with a tandem-axle body job, 200 hp, 22.5 tonnes GVW. Could legally haul about 12.5 tonnes of grain and get probably 10-11 mpg. Super B is pulled with 500 5p, 63.5 tonnes GVW, and about 45 tonnes of grain, and can do it fairly well at as much as 5 mpg on the open highway depending on the driver. Pretty significant fuel savings.
Re: (Score:2)
Lol my first car got about 8 mpg. Thanks for the video.
Re: Funny! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But Ford and Rivian have demonstrated that large pickup trucks can be electrified, the results are pretty damn good
No the results are very poor. Youtube is full of videos showing F150 lightning having extremely poor mileage doing even light towing. These electric trucks are only capable of personal transportation and not any kid of job or service work.
Re: (Score:2)
But Ford and Rivian have demonstrated that large pickup trucks can be electrified, the results are pretty damn good, and they're only 10-20k more expensive than the gas versions.
I know we're living in nutty inflation times, but to me $10-20k is what an entire car should cost, not the premium you pay for a BEV model.
What the Ford Lightning is "pretty damn good" at, is being the typical suburban-dwelling vehicle that never sets a tire off pavement or sees a trailer. Living in central FL, I can say with absolute certainty there is a massive market for trucks that are never actually used for anything more demanding than hauling groceries and a Black Friday television.
Thing is, there i
Re: (Score:2)
Hey don't forget how great it looks after you jack it up so you can off road it!
I'm in Fl too and I love seeing all the trucks that have clearly never left fresh smooth pavement and never will. All shiny and new looking and (hah) way cleaner than my car.
Re: (Score:2)
Iirc, it was Ford who is projecting a $3 Billion USD loss on EV for next year. They called EV trucks an experiment. Not an investment.
That is not what most would call a success.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
At that point, the size of everyone’s manhood will be de
Re: (Score:2)
He's just trolling for karma in the echo chamber.
Re: (Score:2)
Turn off smart quotes.
Re: (Score:2)
Totally inappropriate mods here. I guess he hits too close to the truth for comfort. Both activists and politicians think that they can just pass a law and the universe will fall into line. And that someone else other than them can pay the cost.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a slight wrinkle on all this - not enough power to make this feasible. Nuclear power is being phased out. Natural gas costs are highest in the nation. Solar is no where near to be able to provide enough capacity for future demand. The state is run by populists pushing feel-good regulations detached from the reality.
There's YouTube videos of California politicians talking big about nuclear power plants and natural gas fueled heavy vehicles. This had to be mid-1970s because after Three Mile Island melted down in 1979 the mood shifted quickly on nuclear power. As Mark Twain points out we don't see history repeat but it does rhyme.
California has been forced to bail out their nuclear power plants, and make plans for more, because if they didn't then they'd face record high energy prices and/or new highs in CO2 emissions.
Re: Slight wrinkle (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There is a slight wrinkle on all this - not enough power to make this feasible. Nuclear power is being phased out. Natural gas costs are highest in the nation. Solar is no where near to be able to provide enough capacity for future demand. The state is run by populists pushing feel-good regulations detached from the reality.
Damn. If only they could change that before 2035...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The grid in 10 years time will be
Re: (Score:3)
PG&E can barely (some would say can't at all) maintain the grid they have now.
How are they going to manage this larger grid you assume will just happen and how are they going to build it anyway? With what money? Do you know how many of those huge fires in California were/are caused by PG&E line problems?
Home solar is outside the reach of most people. I just had a huge and complex solar install. Each battery is about 10k. Each panel is about $400. Then you need inverters. Then you need control
Re: (Score:2)
There is a slight wrinkle on all this - not enough power to make this feasible. Nuclear power is being phased out. Natural gas costs are highest in the nation. Solar is no where near to be able to provide enough capacity for future demand. The state is run by populists pushing feel-good regulations detached from the reality.
Won't someone think of the nuclear children!!!
Re: (Score:2)
approving California's plans to require a rising number of zero-emission heavy-duty trucks
So did Elon Musk write this bill? Because it seems like it's making it mandatory for half of California to buy a Cybertruck or Tesla Semi...
I can hear the California legislators now: Elon! COME BACK! We Need Your TAX PAYMENTS!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
approving California's plans to require a rising number of zero-emission heavy-duty trucks
So did Elon Musk write this bill? Because it seems like it's making it mandatory for half of California to buy a Cybertruck or Tesla Semi...
Either that or he's a visionary who can see the future coming and make products to match.
Re: (Score:2)
half of California to buy a Cybertruck or Tesla Semi...
Um... This is about heavy-duty trucks.
Um, that'd be the "Tesla Semi" part of the ten words you quoted.
(admittedly it was after your trigger word, but still...)
Elmo's hideous low-poly monstrosity doesn't qualify. Not that you could get one even if you wanted to.
Tesla Semi is already in use, eg. by Pepsi.
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
"Low-poly monstrosity" very obviously refers to the Cybertruck, which looks like it escaped from the Hard Driving arcade game.
Re: (Score:2)
I had something similar as a kid in my matchbox car collection.
Vroom vroom, lasers blast, missiles fire, pew pew pew, smash!
Oh to be 6 again.