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Transportation Music

AM Radio to Be Dropped in All Ford New Models Except Commercial Vehicles (freep.com) 145

Posted by EditorDavid from the flashback-to-72 dept.
It's not just the Ford Mustang that's losing its AM radio. The Detroit Free Press reports: "We are transitioning from AM radio for most new and updated 2024 models," Ford spokesman Wes Sherwood told the Free Press. "A majority of U.S. AM stations, as well as a number of countries and automakers globally, are modernizing radio by offering internet streaming through mobile apps, FM, digital and satellite radio options. Ford will continue to offer these alternatives for customers to hear their favorite AM radio music, news and podcasts as we remove amplitude modulation — the definition of AM in this case — from most new and updated models we bring to market." Commercial vehicles will continue to offer AM radio because of longstanding contract language, Sherwood said....

"In essence, EV motors generate a lot of electromagnetic interference that affects the frequencies of AM radio and make it difficult to get a clear signal," said Mike Ramsey, an analyst with Stamford, Connecticut-based Gartner Research Group, which specializes in digital transformation and innovation. "It could be shielded, but given the diminishing listening habits to AM, the automakers haven't chosen to do it. Most of the content there is available through other means, including podcast and internet streaming. In my view, this isn't that different from automakers discontinuing 8-track players, cassette players and CD players. Technology has advanced. The idea that it is a critical safety channel is a bit suspect given that almost all critical communication now is sent through mobile phones...."

Veteran analyst John McEloy, host of "Autoline After Hours" webcast and podcast said automakers don't need to get rid of AM radio. "It's happening because automakers would love to get rid of the cost of an AM radio," he told the Free Press. "Some of them, like Ford, are using EVs as an excuse to get rid of it. GM shields its AM radios in its electric cars to they don't get any interference."
But the article also quotes a spokesperson for GM saying they're "evaluating AM radio on future vehicles and not providing any further details at this time."

Last month U.S. Senator Markey noted that seven more top automakers have already removed AM radio from their electric vehicles — BMW, Mazda, Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen, and Volvo.
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AM Radio to Be Dropped in All Ford New Models Except Commercial Vehicles More

AM Radio to Be Dropped in All Ford New Models Except Commercial Vehicles

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    • Dunno what your link is to but maybe it's this?

      I was tuning in the shine on the light night dial
      Doing anything my radio advised
      With every one of those late night stations
      Playing songs bringing tears to my eyes
      I was seriously thinking about hiding the receiver
      When the switch broke 'cause it's old
      They're saying things that I can hardly believe
      They really think we're getting out of control

      Radio is a sound salvation
      Radio is cleaning up the nation
      They say you better listen to the voice of reason
      But

  • I call BS on the interference (Score:5, Informative)

    by blastard ( 816262 ) on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:47PM (#63420806)

    I've driven a Chevrolet EV for more than 5 years and over 150K miles. I listen daily to one of our local AM stations. I drive from the country into the city and only have a problem when I enter a fairly long tunnel downtown. It fades but there is no interference.

    I'm a broadcast engineer and know interference when I hear it. My old gas cars would interfere, but not diesel and so far none with my EV.

    I suspect they don't want to buy chips needed to do Amplitude Modulation reception. That relies on level and and frequency or phase.

    So call it for that, but don't lie about interference. Then again maybe Ford has bad electronics that are noisy.

    • Re:I call BS on the interference (Score:5, Interesting)

      by postbigbang ( 761081 ) on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:55PM (#63420816)

      The chips are inconsequential. Really.

      There simply is no interest. FM is barely hanging on in some markets. People want Bluetooth or a 3.5mm jack. Virtually everyone rolling down the road has their phone linked to their car. If it's not "FM" quality (and no, you're a broadcast engineer and know the quality of most AM station stinks-- especially during a thunderstorm), it's not being played in most all cars these days.

      Many of the AM stations play either religious or political focused content that people often find easy to turn off, too. As the FM bands become more rife with religion and politics, people are turning that off, too. Sat users can at least have a variety-- if at a cost. And the revenue from that cost gets kicked back. AM radio in no way pays the car makers.

      • The only time I've switched to AM in the past 25 years is by mistake. Terrible quality audio and it's all politics or religious. If they shut if off people's blood pressure will probably go down.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          The funny thing is that I pretty much haven't listened to the radio since I got my Tesla, precisely because it has no AM, and XM, FM, and live Internet-based radio don't carry well enough in the mountains to be viable, with the exception of music streaming services that buffer ahead by several minutes at a time.

          Before that, I mostly listened to KCBS AM.

          • LOL...

            KCBS was the last AM station I listened to as well. Until CarPlay and maps with live traffic, I kept up the hope upon hope that their traffic reports would help me find my way around jams.

            After KCBS started (or, after I discovered they have it) their FM simulcast, the only times I've switched to AM have been by mistake. These days, I barely even tune into that... all three of the big map apps route around traffic jams now. And between Apple Music, podcasts, and Audible; give it a few more years and

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        I routinely listen to a AM radio station but rarely AM radio. There is a AM station that has local news and sports but the signal is just horrible. But they have a icecast server set up so I can listen on my phone. The quality of the icecast feed is near perfect.

        • The car makers might do well to introduce a pseudo-AM band where they offer the Internet links to the live feeds for each frequency in range. Most of that is well defined by government regulation of broadcast power, and you'd get a clear "signal" out to the theoretical boundary of the radio signal.

      • Re:I call BS on the interference (Score:5, Informative)

        by wiggles ( 30088 ) on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:21AM (#63421792)

        Dude....

        In my market - Chicago - all the baseball games are on AM radio. Without it, you need to pay $150 per year for an MLB.com subscription that gets blacked out if you're local.

        There are 3 sports talk stations on my regular AM dial, plus a general talk station (WGN) that's been there for eons.

        I'm on AM more than FM these days.

        • The Venn diagram of the intersection of the sets, $AM_Radio_Sports_Listeners and $New_Ford_Owners will be a null set. I don't think Ford cares.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

          Have I got a deal for you [amazon.com]. Costs less than a $35,000 car and you can take it anywfere - even inside a car.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ebh ( 116526 )

          I pay something like $20 a year to MLB to stream all the available audio (usually each teams' English and Spanish radio broadcasts) for every game.

          But I still miss Bob Murphy. :(

      • "People want Bluetooth or a 3.5mm jack."

        IPod connected by USB for me, but the same idea.

        When the iPod finally dies I'll have to change to something else. I'll worry about it then.

      • Re:I call BS on the interference (Score:4, Informative)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday April 03, 2023 @11:23AM (#63422196) Homepage Journal

        Chips that can receive AM and demodulate it are indeed cheap, but the cost to design AM reception in is not.

        On the electrical side you need an antenna that is suited to AM. You also need antennas for FM, DAB, maybe satellite, Cellular, and GPS. Actually not just GPS, you want Galileo, GLONAS, and Compass support as well.

        You can combine some of those into a single antenna, but needing to keep AM in there makes that more difficult. You will probably end up with an extra antenna, which means more space needed in the shark fin, more cable connecting it to the head unit.

        Then you need to test it. Every time you make any change. Not just to the head unit, to things like the power supply to the head unit, position of other stuff that could interfere and so forth.

        It probably doesn't add a huge amount of cost, but it's certainly non-zero. Hopefully people vote with their wallets in this instance. Same with the removal of CarPlay from yesterday. AM is still very useful.

    • It really doesn't make much sense. At this point, every mainstream radio could probably be set up using an SDR anyway.

    • I've driven a Chevrolet EV for more than 5 years and over 150K miles.

      From the summary, "GM shields its AM radios in its electric cars to they don't get any interference."

      In case you're not aware, Chevrolet is a GM brand.

    • I felt a great disturbance in the Electric Field (Score:4, Informative)

      by stooo ( 2202012 ) on Monday April 03, 2023 @03:08AM (#63421280) Homepage

      You have no idea about interference close to RX.
      The problem is that the EMC standards are meant to prevent interference in a 1970's world, with electronics equipment spaced 10's of meters (especially receiving antennas), while today, you have your receiving antenna of your car radio just a few centimeters away from the next module with crazy microcontrollers, and other noisy window motors.
      The level of interference is at least 40dB worse than what FCC is regulating.

      It does not cost much to add an AM receiver in a car.
      but it cost much more to add filters on every little electronics device that can interfere with the receiver, so that you don't get a deafening scream in the speaker each and every time the wiper goes on.
      That is the biggest cost you can save.

      >> I've driven a Chevrolet EV for more than 5 years and over 150K miles.
      I felt a great disturbance in the Electric Field, as if millions of Electronics Engineers suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
      The fact that you could drive the Chevrolet EV that long without interference from all the switching circuits in the car in the car is owed to automotive electronics engineers like me some time ago, working overtime to respect the extremely stringent outgoing interference spec from auto OEMs, which target all the receiving frequencies with extremely low levels allowed.

      Also, outside of USA, nobody listens to AM radio any more.

    • If you're already doing FM radio, you may or may not need another chip to do AM — depending on whether the FM radio is in a SoC, or you're using a stand-alone radio chip. But the manufacturer would rather steer you towards a satellite radio system from which they get a kickback, so they don't care how good the AM quality is.

      I'm a broadcast engineer

      My understanding (from the last time this came up, and some browsing I did then) is that if you don't need another chip, and possibly even if you do, the cost of the external compo

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      I've yet to heard any noticeable radio interference on AM, and my oldest vehicles are from the late 1970s and early 1980s - all gasoline-powered.

      That includes a vehicle with a "traditional" distributor-wires-plugs setup. As well as some with early electronic ignition systems, which likely are far noisier than modern electronics.

      I would imagine a modern coil-on-plug (COP) system would be much less noisy. While EVs should also have enough shielding to prevent interference.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I suspect they don't want to buy chips needed to do Amplitude Modulation reception. That relies on level and and frequency or phase.

      That's BS. Modern car radio chips are SDR based - I've used chips that combined did AM, FM and DAB in a single chip - it was just contorlled over I2C or SPI and the decoding happened via the firmware programmed on it. Oh yeah, that chip also had I2S inputs in order for audio playback from the infotainment system, as well as I2S outputs for audio captured via the microphones for

    • I've driven a Chevrolet EV for more than 5 years and over 150K miles. I listen daily to one of our local AM stations. I drive from the country into the city and only have a problem when I enter a fairly long tunnel downtown. It fades but there is no interference.

      I'm a broadcast engineer and know interference when I hear it. My old gas cars would interfere, but not diesel and so far none with my EV.

      I suspect they don't want to buy chips needed to do Amplitude Modulation reception. That relies on level and and frequency or phase.

      An alternate theory is they intend to skimp on EMC to reduce BOM and don't want to field resulting complaints by people who listen to AM radio.

    • As a Ford Truck owner, they have bad electronics. Sometimes I think my speakers are for engine noise.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DewDude ( 537374 )

      Even worse is most of these radios are DSP/SDR...so it's literally just lines of code needed to do AM demodulation.

  • FCC asleep? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Orgasmatron ( 8103 ) on Sunday April 02, 2023 @10:18PM (#63420868)

    I was under the impression that Part 15 of the FCC rules prohibited interference with licensed spectrum usage. If these EVs are actually noisy in the AM band, shouldn't the FCC step in?

    • If you haven't already, you might want to read "blastards" comment, which appears immediately below yours. It addresses your remarks directly.

    • I was under the impression that Part 15 of the FCC rules prohibited interference with licensed spectrum usage. If these EVs are actually noisy in the AM band, shouldn't the FCC step in?

      Could be. But I'm pretty sure there are range limits on that. I recall a short-range AM* microphone thing I had as a kid, from Radio Shack. It broadcast on AM so you could listen to yourself on your radio. It had a range of something like ten feet.

      * A little research suggests what I had was similar to but not actually a Mr. Microphone, which was FM. It's possible what I had was also FM, but the point remains that there are limits to FCC interference ranges and they probably apply to both AM and FM.

    • EVs don't really broadcast interference, the effect it highly localized. It's not that hard to make an EV with a working AM radio, but it's not worth the effort since most people wouldn't use it.

    • go read the rules again.

    • >> I was under the impression that Part 15 of the FCC rules prohibited interference

      Nope, does not work that way. Your impression is wrong.
      EMC rules try to limit interference to a reasonably low level.
      It's a compromise between cost of filtering electronics, and inconvenience.

      The problem is that the EMC standards are meant to prevent interference in a 1970's world, with electronics equipment spaced 10's of meters (especially receiving antennas), while today, you have your receiving antenna of your car r

  • Highway alert radio...???? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DarkVader ( 121278 ) on Sunday April 02, 2023 @10:53PM (#63420926)

    What about highway alert radio? Those are ALL low-power AM stations that broadcast a short range signal targeted at traffic. Around me, there are billboards with the AM frequency and flashing lights if there's something going wrong on the highway.

    Yeah, AM is essentially worthless for everything else, but those seem like a pretty important reason for cars to have AM radios.

  • Would the answer to this be a low frequency FM transmitter which is often used as a lowest common denominator? It isn't as good as having it built in, but at least it would be an option.

  • At some point during an emergency you may be walking.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by narcc ( 412956 )

      I think that's reasonably common on phones with a headphone jack. Though it requires a pair of wired headphones to act as an antenna.

      Still, what's a cheap transistor radio cost these day? Like a dollar?

      We should start telling kids about this cool way to get music for free "without wifi". It could save radio.

    • Even my flip phone has FM, but you need an external antenna, usually the headphone.

  • A single AM station can broadcast for 100 miles (and multiples of that at night), FM is limited to visible horizon and cell towers have comparatively tiny range. If things go bad, don't you want to be able to communicate with affected population?

    • A single AM station can broadcast for 100 miles

      Far more, though I gather longwave radio isn't really a thing in America?

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Almost. There are dedicated clear channel (not to be confused with the radio broadcasting company) AM stations running at the maximum transmission power even at night for the express purpose of long range communication. The local AM stations were deliberately held at reduced power to avoid interfering with them, especially at night.

          Whether it still makes sense to maintain AM clear channel broadcasting capability is another question.

  • As a born and raised St. Louisan, AM 1120 KMOX feels like a "staple" of our region. Since it has a clear channel license, it's been known for decades as one of the radio stations you can pick up across a large part of the country when conditions are right.

    Sure, it's just another "talk / news" format station, which may younger people have no interest in. It caters to the "boomer" generation, quite clearly. But it's also the "go to" when people want to hear radio broadcasts of Cardinals baseball games. And ov

  • Because there's still many sections of road that use a local radio for weather reporting or other information, these sections exist were no cell service exists
  • Although I don't listen to AM much, the most time I *DO* listen to it is while I am driving, listening to road condition reports in my area that are updated every 15 or so minutes throughout the day. There is no equivalent FM radio station in my area.

  • Isn't this kind of thing an emergency prep hazard? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jensend ( 71114 ) on Monday April 03, 2023 @01:29AM (#63421142)

    Suppose there's a serious disaster capable of destroying tons of infrastructure - like Katrina or the 1906 SF earthquake. Afterwards, you need to get crucial disaster relief information to a million survivors.

    To get that information to everyone by radio, you need to get a power source and a well-placed broadcast transmitter.

    To get that information to everyone by cellular internet, you need...

    OK, I don't know cell networks well enough to be sure what's required. But the infrastructure we normally use in a large city involves thousands of access points and thousands of miles of fiber backhaul and

    In an emergency, if significant amounts of infrastructure have been destroyed, all you need to get radio transmission back in working condition for a city of millions is a power source for one broadcast transmitter.

    To get emergency

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jensend ( 71114 )

      darn it, problem with the comment form. trying again

    • There's no singular emergency broadcast. Emergencies are broadcast across all systems precisely because (and this is the important part) there's no assumption that one broadcast reaches everyone.

      So your car doesn't have AM? No worries. You can get cellular. Oh that's not working? Well there's FM, and Sirus as well. And if you actually live in a disaster prone area then you'd be insanely bone headed to rely on your car as a communications medium.

      No emergency response agency in America says "you got a car, yo

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceg97 ( 976736 )
      Look to the sky man. The ground based internet was explicitly designed to survive major damage even including nuclear war let alone the literally thousands of communications satellite
  • I listened to an exciting basketball game Saturday on AM radio while driving because I needed to be somewhere, and again the Friday before when I had another commitment I needed to drive to. It was great to be able to hear those games. I bought myself a stereo for Christmas after my old Sonyâ(TM)s CD player croaked, and it took a lot of searching to find one with AM radio (shame on you Sony for not offering it anymore) because I can listen to local and neighboring cities sports programs. Iâ(TM)m

  • Suppose there's a serious disaster capable of destroying tons of infrastructure - like Katrina or the 1906 SF earthquake. Afterwards, you need to get crucial disaster relief information to a million survivors.

    To get that information to everyone by radio, you need to get a power source and a well-placed broadcast transmitter.

    To get that information to everyone by cellular internet, you need...

    OK, I don't know cell networks well enough to be sure what's required. But the infrastructure we normally use in a la

  • AM stations, ... are modernizing radio by offering internet streaming through mobile apps, FM, digital and satellite radio options. Ford will continue to offer these alternatives ...

    + AM -- free to receive
    + FM -- free to receive
    + Streaming / mobile apps -- extra cost to receive
    + Digital -- extra cost to receive
    + Satellite -- extra cost to receive

    I wonder why they're ditching AM in favor of the other options...?

    Seriously, dropping AM radio capability will save them, probably literally, a nickel.

    "In essence, EV motors generate a lot of electromagnetic interference that affects the frequencies of AM radio and make it difficult to get a clear signal," ...

    I wasn't aware that all their vehicles will be EV only. Still, they could still support it and include a disclaimer about reception quality, if they seriously can't shield a radio ante

    • Mod Up. The AM SDR radio chip is between 10 cents and one dollar. The CPU to drive it is already there with FM. A $1 store will sell you both AM and FM for $1. Maybe $5 gets you one with SD and USB MP3 and BT. A BaoFeng Ham Radio Talkie is $25 odd, covers 50-600MHz. We could do that cheaper if we took out the battery, Transmit transistor and hand microphone. You also get AM for the Airport frequency, a tad higher than normal FM. There is no reason why Ford, could give you receive access for police, fire and
      • Ford Benefits: 1) No AM, so more Black ice and Hail damage write-offs or spare sales. 2) Sleepy people driving into a pileup - $$ profit. 3) We only advertise on FM stations, so getting rid of AM saves some budget. 4) AM carries those nasty woke greenie talk-back channels that say bad things about our cars. So yes there are benefits for them.
    • If interference from onboard equipment is truly the problem, all that required shielding is going to cost more than a nickel buddy.

      If they aren't going to bother with shielding, then why bother with a part that they know will just cause endless dealership visits for 'AM radio just buzzes'.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Falos ( 2905315 )

      "Commercial" ventures are out of the loop when the AM/FM broadcast simply goes out blind.

      Streaming/Mobile/Digital/Satellite is negotiated. They are in the loop. To "authenticate", to track, whatever.

      They're just "modernizing" the same as everything else - phoning home and keeping control in their hands, not yours.

  • I wonder if these manufacturers provide DAB receivers in the Norwegian market?

    Driving through Norway 5 years ago was a surreal experience, nothing could be heard on either FM nor AM. They've switched off both and now it's all digital.

    • Driving through Norway 5 years ago was a surreal experience, nothing could be heard on either FM nor AM.

      Some parts of Norway can receive Radio 4 Longwave, so you can still get the cricket.

  • It's just the first salvo of removing non-subscription generating content from the infotainment system. FM will be next. If you want music (even AM or FM) you'll have to subscribe to that mobile broadband plan for N dollars a month and have it delivered that way. They already take a cut if you subscribe to satellite content.

    Next they'll bounce Carplay, Android Auto, and even the ability to mount your own media to play your own content.

    Coming soon.

  • As a counter example, the entire country of Austria did away with AM radio [wikipedia.org] (known as "medium-wave" there) in 1976, and they've been surviving quite well without it for the past 45 years.

    Personally, I would rather see the spectrum removed from radio use and put to something more useful. What exactly that is, I don't know, but I'm sure the 1.2MHz of bandwidth could be useful to someone in that long-transmission-length spectrum.

  • I don't travel as much as I used to. Back then, many roads and Disney, had travel alerts on AM radio, usually 1150 or there abouts. Have all those advisories moved to FM?
  • I suspect the real issue is that you don't subscribe to it. They want people paying a subscription for the content they consume. Not only that if you're required to have your personal tracking device to use it there's a record of everywhere you go. One more step towards Full Spectrum Dominance.

  • News Flash! Ford to cut costs by eliminating customers.

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